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Old 01-30-2018, 07:53 PM
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Default For those having FTF issues with their 45 Shield.

I'm trying to establish whether there is a pattern. Please answer the following questions:
1. Did FTF happen with 6 round or 7 round magazine?
2. What bullet weight? 230? 200? 185?
3. Standard velocity, or +P?
4. Bullet configuration. FMJ? JHP? or other?

Thanks!
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Old 01-30-2018, 08:22 PM
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OK. I'll go first.
1. 7 round.
2. 200 grain
3. +P
4. JHP
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Old 01-30-2018, 08:30 PM
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Another question to add to your list:

Old design follower vs new design follower?
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Old 01-30-2018, 08:42 PM
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With mine, it doesn't matter. Ammo, mags, (I've got five, two flush, three extended), three different guide rods, including a stainless steel. Intermittent FTF with all of the above. Been back to the factory once, the gurus at my LGS have had it twice. No one else can get it to fail. Picking it up tomorrow, giving it one more try. If it fails, it's gone. Hate to let it go, it's a great shooter,,, when it shoots.
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Old 01-30-2018, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyo5 View Post
I'm trying to establish whether there is a pattern. Please answer the following questions:
1. Did FTF happen with 6 round or 7 round magazine?
2. What bullet weight? 230? 200? 185?
3. Standard velocity, or +P?
4. Bullet configuration. FMJ? JHP? or other?

Thanks!
Both magazines, new followers.
230gr fmj
Standard velocity, Federal Champion and blazer brass.

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Old 01-30-2018, 09:56 PM
FloridaS&W FloridaS&W is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyo5 View Post
Well, guess what!
I took my 45 Shield to the range this morning and experienced one of the FTF failures just as described in this thread. The first round fired, but the second one jammed in the magazine with the nose against the front of the mag. I would describe it as a failure for the nose of the round to rise quickly enough. Pulling the slide back and releasing it cured the problem. The magazine was a brand new 7 rounder. There was one failure, out of three magazines full of Speer 200g +P defense JHPs. I also fired three mags of my reloads without any issues. My reloads use Ranier 230g plated hollowpoints. The length of the Speer rounds is close to that of my reloads. One difference that I see is that the Speer bullets are wider at the front than my Ranier bullets, which are more tapered. Also, the Speer ammo is +P, whereas my handloads are more like standard velocity and feel less powerful to shoot than the Speer.
I should also mention that out of perhaps 300 rounds fired so far, this was my first failure of any kind. Almost all of those 300 rounds were my handloads.
Andy, I moved this here from another thread since you are the OP. So you only had one issue in 300 rds., right? Did you confirm that the brand new mag you were using has the updated followers installed? I ask this because the brand new ones that S&W sent me did not.
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Old 01-30-2018, 10:07 PM
FloridaS&W FloridaS&W is offline
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I had three FTF's with Federal 230 gr ALUMINUM cased ammo.
230 gr brass seems to be running well.
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Old 01-30-2018, 10:43 PM
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None of that mattered in my case. My Shield .45 stopped having failures to feed after I gave my magazines a good cleaning, installed the updated followers, and polished my lower feed ramp. Result: 1700 perfect rounds since then, across all types of cartridges and magazines.
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Old 01-31-2018, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swsig View Post
None of that mattered in my case. My Shield .45 stopped having failures to feed after I gave my magazines a good cleaning, installed the updated followers, and polished my lower feed ramp. Result: 1700 perfect rounds since then, across all types of cartridges and magazines.
I also cleaned my magazines to no avail.
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Old 01-31-2018, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by FloridaS&W View Post
Did you confirm that the brand new mag you were using has the updated followers installed? I ask this because the brand new ones that S&W sent me did not.
Florida, According to photos that I found, I have all new type followers. They all have the vertical corner groove.

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Old 01-31-2018, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
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No one else can get it to fail.
Donn, I don't mean to aggravate you, but doesn't this suggest operator error?
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Old 01-31-2018, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyo5 View Post
Donn, I don't mean to aggravate you, but doesn't this suggest operator error?
I've got three M&P's, including a 9mm Shield. If it were operator error, I think it would've shown up before now.
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Old 01-31-2018, 03:08 PM
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Well, I took the Shield back to the range today. I fired 50 rounds without failure. I even tried several times to duplicate my one FTF from yesterday by placing a Speer 200g +P HP in the same position, next to the top round. I could not duplicate the failure.
I cannot rule out that my one FTF may have resulted from limp wristing or some other operator issue.
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Old 02-01-2018, 07:40 AM
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Lotta "to do" over one FTF my man.

Hell I dont trust that ANY ammo wont have one FTF in a thousand.

As long as my guns perform consistently, I just consider it "clearing/re-rack" practice and move on. I WILL check the shell as I suspect it long before I do the gun.

Last edited by Dad_Roman; 02-01-2018 at 07:43 AM.
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Old 02-08-2018, 05:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swsig View Post
None of that mattered in my case. My Shield .45 stopped having failures to feed after I gave my magazines a good cleaning, installed the updated followers, and polished my lower feed ramp. Result: 1700 perfect rounds since then, across all types of cartridges and magazines.
This is not good news. MP should have had this worked out already at the factory. I saw hickok45 do a review on the Shield 45 and he had a few feeding issues. Mine so far has not but then again I am using critical defense 185gr which is like a round nose. I haven't tried HST but the reason I am using critical defense is due to short barrel
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Old 02-08-2018, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donn View Post
With mine, it doesn't matter. Ammo, mags, (I've got five, two flush, three extended), three different guide rods, including a stainless steel. Intermittent FTF with all of the above. Been back to the factory once, the gurus at my LGS have had it twice. No one else can get it to fail. Picking it up tomorrow, giving it one more try. If it fails, it's gone. Hate to let it go, it's a great shooter,,, when it shoots.
That's interesting. I posted on here years ago about my girlfriend's 9mm Shield, right when they first came out. She would get light hits on the primer, and it wouldn't fully go back into battery (sometimes.) No real pattern to it.

We had three other shooters try it (2 men, one woman) and no one could recreate the problem. She doesn't have that problem with any other handgun, either.

It went back to the factory, and of course they said it was within spec (it probably was). The same issue occurred when it came back, so it was sold. The gent that bought it put a few hundred thru it the first weekend without a hiccup.

I think sometimes certain guns won't work for certain people...
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Old 02-08-2018, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by petepeterson View Post
That's interesting. I posted on here years ago about my girlfriend's 9mm Shield, right when they first came out. She would get light hits on the primer, and it wouldn't fully go back into battery (sometimes.) No real pattern to it.

We had three other shooters try it (2 men, one woman) and no one could recreate the problem. She doesn't have that problem with any other handgun, either.

It went back to the factory, and of course they said it was within spec (it probably was). The same issue occurred when it came back, so it was sold. The gent that bought it put a few hundred thru it the first weekend without a hiccup.

I think sometimes certain guns won't work for certain people...
True! I sold my BG380 because of too many Light Strikes. New owner says, he has had no light strikes in over 1,200 rds!
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Old 02-08-2018, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petepeterson View Post
That's interesting. I posted on here years ago about my girlfriend's 9mm Shield, right when they first came out. She would get light hits on the primer, and it wouldn't fully go back into battery (sometimes.) No real pattern to it.

We had three other shooters try it (2 men, one woman) and no one could recreate the problem. She doesn't have that problem with any other handgun, either.

It went back to the factory, and of course they said it was within spec (it probably was). The same issue occurred when it came back, so it was sold. The gent that bought it put a few hundred thru it the first weekend without a hiccup.

I think sometimes certain guns won't work for certain people...
When I read things like that it always makes me scratch my head. I could be wrong, but I think limp wristing happens to some shooters more than we might think (even with experienced shooters), and I suspect this is often misinterpreted as a "mysterious gun issue."
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Old 02-09-2018, 08:55 AM
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1. 6 round magazines w/ latest followers & Wolff extra 5% springs.
2. Pistol clean & lubed. Magazines cleaned.
3. Factory 230 grain FMJ from various manufacturers.
4. FTF, when it occurs, is usually the second round in the magazine. Nose down and caught in the locking block.
5. Pistol returned to S&W twice - once a new RSA, once a slight throat and polish of barrel.



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Old 02-09-2018, 10:07 AM
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This is just a thought, but it seems the failures are rounds nose diving into the mag itself. This would indicate a magazine and not a gun problem.
I know from experience how difficult it is to load the .45 mags.
Is it a possibility that sometimes the cartridge is not sitting fully back in the mag? I've noticed it happen not only in Shield mags, but occasionally in most magazines.
I try to ensure they are fully seated to the rear and always slap my loaded mags against my palm ( or years ago, my helmet) out of habit.
Maybe I'm just lucky, but no FTFs yet.
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Old 02-09-2018, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaS&W View Post
When I read things like that it always makes me scratch my head. I could be wrong, but I think limp wristing happens to some shooters more than we might think (even with experienced shooters), and I suspect this is often misinterpreted as a "mysterious gun issue."
I have to agree. My Shield 45 has only had 2 FTF nosedives in 500 rounds and both happened when my BIL was firing it.
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Old 02-09-2018, 11:45 AM
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I have had my Shield 45 for a little over a year now, probably 700 rounds through it..Never had a FTF with either mag....however, I do polish and rem oil the inside of the mags and the followers on a regular basis........that said I am not a gunsmith, nor did I ever play one on TV and I never stayed at a Holiday Inn Express, so Im not sure if what I am doing helps or not for FTF's....but as long as I don't have them I will continue to do what I am doing.....

Sorry to hear you are having any probems with the 45 at all.....
Hope you find the cause/solution soon.
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Old 02-09-2018, 02:33 PM
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I have a 9mm shield that run flawless. Sometimes when I unload a mag by thumb a round will hang up on the front edge of the mag wall. It catches on the cartridge edge. I beveled the offending edge and no more hang ups. Could this also be a solution to the 45 FTF problem? Just a thought.

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Old 02-09-2018, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaS&W View Post
When I read things like that it always makes me scratch my head. I could be wrong, but I think limp wristing happens to some shooters more than we might think (even with experienced shooters), and I suspect this is often misinterpreted as a "mysterious gun issue."
I agree with you. But she somehow doesn't limp-wrist her Glock 19, 42, or any of my autos. Hence, that piece just isn't her thing.
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Old 02-12-2018, 06:33 PM
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How do I know if I have the old follower or the new follower? Thanks, Bob
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Old 02-12-2018, 08:28 PM
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How do I know if I have the old follower or the new follower? Thanks, Bob
There is a vertical groove in the right front corner of the new follower.
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Old 02-12-2018, 09:54 PM
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How do I know if I have the old follower or the new follower? Thanks, Bob
Yep there's a little vertical notch on the corner, in this photo the new style is in front


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Old 03-09-2018, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donn View Post
With mine, it doesn't matter. Ammo, mags, (I've got five, two flush, three extended), three different guide rods, including a stainless steel. Intermittent FTF with all of the above. Been back to the factory once, the gurus at my LGS have had it twice. No one else can get it to fail. Picking it up tomorrow, giving it one more try. If it fails, it's gone. Hate to let it go, it's a great shooter,,, when it shoots.
This is pretty much spot on to my 45 Shield. Two 6 rounders(one with a "new" style follower, one with an "old" style), three 7 rounders (all with "new"style followers). Would stop after second round out of the magazine. When the gun was new, it was very intermittent. It got progressively worse over time. Two handed hold minimized stoppages. Most FTF happened when shooting one handed. I'm thinking that it needs a really firm hold, and is susceptible to even the slightest "limp wristing". For a defensive handgun, being able to shoot one handed & with the weak hand is essential.

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Old 03-10-2018, 12:02 PM
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1. 7-round mag only (6-round mag has never failed)
2. 230 gr.
3. Standard velocity
4. FMJ

I have new style followers in the magazines and magazines have been cleaned. I still get the nose-down FTF. When it happens, the round isn't clearing the magazine. It's not hanging up on the ramp. The nose is still inside the magazine.

I fail to see how limp-wristing could cause this kind of a FTF.

Last edited by scartnal; 03-10-2018 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 03-11-2018, 06:36 PM
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Default Failure to feed

I have had nose down ftf for over a year, and well over a thousand rounds. I have the new followers in all 4 mags. I have wolf 5% mag springs. I clean the mags after every use. I also spray Teflon dry lube in the mags. S&w polished the ramp and throat, I polished the lower ramp. I was using Winchester 230 grain target,and federal 230 American eagle. I was just about to give up, but decided to try 100 rounds of my carry ammo (federal 230 grain hydra-shock). The gun was flawless, for the first time.
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Old 04-29-2018, 03:17 PM
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so has anyone had and luck solving this issue?mine just started doing this to me as well.
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Old 04-29-2018, 05:57 PM
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Welcome to the club!

How about some background info.

Age of gun?
Mags?
Rounds downrange?
Your experience level?
Type of ammo?
Mods?
Cleaning/lube regiment?
Exactly what its doing? FTF? FTL? Nose up? Stovepipe? etc.
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Old 04-30-2018, 09:37 AM
Nonuthin Nonuthin is offline
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A little fuel for the fire....

1. I bought and sold eight new .45 Shields since last April, 2017 and ALL of them failed me with intermittent failures-to-feed with ALL ammo and ALL magazines, even with NEW followers and all the tricks/fixes outlined in this forum tried, but to no avail.

2. I went round and round about the problem with S&W's factory LE reps, customer service reps and LE armorers. We are ALL experienced S&W owners and shooters and we ALL own other caliber Shields that have never exhibited this failure to feed problem.

3. I loved everything about those little .45's but, I could NEVER trust any of them because of their intermittent, unpredictable failures to feed so they all found new homes, with full disclosure of their unpredictability, at a healthy dollar loss to me. I still love S&W even though the .45 Shields didn't love me back!

4. I have friends who own .45 Shields with hundreds of rounds of all kinds of ammo downrange who swear by their reliability. I hate those guys!! (Just kidding.)

5. After my personal, semi-informed experience, I have come to believe that you MUST have a solid hold with locked wrist and elbow to provide an absolutely firm backstop for these little .45's to cycle properly or they will fail to feed reliably. My friends who swear by the .45 Shields are all ham-handed GORILLAS. I'm not.

CONCLUSION: The .45 Shield is a slightly flawed design because of its many dimensional and design compromises in order to achieve its desirably diminutive overall size and weight. Design compromises like in the .45 Shield require a gorilla-like grip and attention to ammunition sensitivity as part of the equation for reliable function.

Attention to these concerns may work for some shooters but not for me. I need a carry weapon that ALLOWS for weak-hand firing reliability and which DOES NOT require a death grip to feed reliably.

So, the lovable little .45 Shield, with its highly desirable sub-compactness, affordability and superior accuracy is a very personal-shooting-style-dependent choice of a weapon. Great for some, but not for others like me.

Please don't drive yourselves nuts if you have a flakey one like I did eight times over. Either accept it as it is or find someone else to provide it a good home. Someday, the factory engineers may introduce a dash 1 or dash 2, etc. version that corrects the design flaws to allow limp-wristers to enjoy the .45 Shield but, that certainly hasn't happened yet and the .45 Shield is going on 3 years old.

Hope this shines a little perspective on the issue...
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Old 04-30-2018, 09:45 AM
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petepeterson petepeterson is offline
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Nonuthin'-

You bought eight of the same pistol in a years time? That, sir, is dedication.
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Old 04-30-2018, 07:52 PM
Dad_Roman Dad_Roman is offline
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Shields....yea. Crazy huh?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonuthin View Post

5. After my personal, semi-informed experience, I have come to believe that you MUST have a solid hold with locked wrist and elbow to provide an absolutely firm backstop for these little .45's to cycle properly or they will fail to feed reliably. My friends who swear by the .45 Shields are all ham-handed GORILLAS. I'm not.

CONCLUSION: The .45 Shield is a slightly flawed design because of its many dimensional and design compromises in order to achieve its desirably diminutive overall size and weight. Design compromises like in the .45 Shield require a gorilla-like grip and attention to ammunition sensitivity as part of the equation for reliable function.
Thats a VERY interesting observation you have made! Kudos.
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Old 05-01-2018, 05:48 PM
kannonvaggon kannonvaggon is offline
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I dunno....

I've fired many rounds with my Shield .45 with a one hand grip, either hand and such AND my weak hand is actually WEAK due to a spinal injury... and NEVER had a FTF . I can't MAKE the pistol fail, not even with shotshells and desert dirt. I haven't even needed to change mags or springs. Never even had a mag drop event. I DO make sure to solidly seat all rounds to the rear of the mag well.

I hear ya, but just don't understand how this happens with this pistol unless the grip style being used is somehow interfering with the slide / lock mechanisms ? I just dunno... I would have given up after trying TWO of em . Too bad this model doesn't seem to suit you, I've found it to be my all time favorite EDC .
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Old 05-02-2018, 01:00 PM
FloridaS&W FloridaS&W is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kannonvaggon View Post
I dunno....

I've fired many rounds with my Shield .45 with a one hand grip, either hand and such AND my weak hand is actually WEAK due to a spinal injury... and NEVER had a FTF . I can't MAKE the pistol fail, not even with shotshells and desert dirt. I haven't even needed to change mags or springs. Never even had a mag drop event. I DO make sure to solidly seat all rounds to the rear of the mag well.

I hear ya, but just don't understand how this happens with this pistol unless the grip style being used is somehow interfering with the slide / lock mechanisms ? I just dunno... I would have given up after trying TWO of em . Too bad this model doesn't seem to suit you, I've found it to be my all time favorite EDC .
kannonvaggon,

1. For the record, the guy that started this thread (Andy) ended up not really having any issues.

2. If you check the original reference above you will see that my comments about the limp-wrist was actually made about Pete's 9MM Shield, not the 45 Shield.

3. I wouldn't put too much stock into what "Nonuthin" says about the Shield 45. He's kind of a drama queen with a penchant for exaggeration. Last time he told this story, he told us we were all "fools" and "Koo-laid drinkers" if we trusted and liked them. He also told us he bought six of the same gun. Now he's changed it to eight. Here is the thread for reference, and notice the OP of that post ALSO resolved his issue in the end:

Shield 45 FTF mystery w/pix

Last edited by FloridaS&W; 05-06-2018 at 02:02 PM.
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Old 05-02-2018, 05:10 PM
Nonuthin Nonuthin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaS&W View Post
kannonvaggon,

3. I wouldn't put too much stock into what "Nonuthin" says about the Shield 45. Last time he told this story, he told us we were all "fools" and "Koo-laid drinkers" if we trusted and liked them. He also told us he bought six of the same gun. Now he's changed it to eight. Here is the thread for reference, and notice the OP of that post ALSO resolved his issue in the end:
Well, the Chief Kool-Aid Drinker himself, Mr. FloridaS&W, just can't let anyone who doesn't WORSHIP all that Smith & Wesson shoves out the door have his say. Mr. FloridaS&W has NO CREDIBILITY or objectivity in ANY of his responses as you read through his hyper-defensive posts and demeaning responses to anyone else who hints at criticism of any S&W product. He just can't help himself! Guys like him just plain RUIN the spirit of helpfulness and free expression in forums like this one!

Regardless of Mr. FloridaS&W's depraved obsession to rewrite history and deny reality, I have actually bought, owned and sold several .45 Shields, as I have said in several prior posts - Six as of last fall, 2017 and two more since then, to date. Why? Because I COULD and I DID!

Don't like reality, Mr. FloridaS&W? Go back to your psychiatrist and tell him your meds aren't working!

Also, if you check my previous posts with an open mind, you'll see that I have always tried to be helpful in SOLVING members problems, unlike Mr. FloridaS&W who likes to discredit and blame the gun owner who points out a problem.

I stand behind (and can back up 100%) every one of my posts, including any that call out the fanboys and logo-obsessed truth suppressors like the Kool-Aid addicted Mr. FloridaS&W.

Thank You.
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Old 05-02-2018, 05:43 PM
FloridaS&W FloridaS&W is offline
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LOL, I rest my case.
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Old 05-06-2018, 10:27 AM
bonniet120 bonniet120 is offline
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My 45 Shield was completely unreliable and slide stop did not work. It went back to the factory and the slide stop was replaced but the gun could not get through a full mag without a failure to feed. I realized that the last 3 or 4 rounds in the mag feed reliably; the worst were the rounds under the greatest spring pressure from the mag. I fixed the gun myself and it has not missed a beat ever since, but that was my single specimen and may not apply to other 45 shields. If your shield is reliable with the last 3 or 4 in the mag. I would suggest putting something like wheel bearing grease on the center rail part of the slide. What slides over the cartridges in the mag. Mine had cross cut marks on that surface; which I believe are necessary. If your gun functions until the grease is flicked off, you might have the same problem I once had.
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Old 05-06-2018, 11:52 AM
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SATX SATX is offline
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If other shooters are not having the problems you are having, it's you. No mystery about it. It doesn't matter how many other guns you shot that were more forgiving.
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Old 05-06-2018, 04:15 PM
bigbob76 bigbob76 is offline
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One of .45 Shields went back to the mother ship for a little problem and has been fine ever since. The other one was fine all the way. They are both listed on my carry license and I am completely confident with them. Some of my friends that shoot really small 1911s in .45acp carry with 185 grain rounds. They say that because of the short barrels there is a lot that has to happen in a very short time and space and also the weight of the bullets slow down how fast the spring can push them up into position. All I can say is I am very happy with the .45 Shield.
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Old 05-13-2018, 11:23 AM
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martybee martybee is offline
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On the subject of: FTF (in this case, Failure To Feed) problems with the Shield.45; I believe a large portion of the problem stems from the fact that the rounds are not fully seated in the magazine. this causes the round to "nose dive" into the front of the mag. I think most are aware that the "Stripper rail" (the long rib on the bottom of the slide) has machined swirl marks on it from the factory that were introduced on the Shield 45, the Shield 9 & 40 do not. These were added to help seat the next round back in the mag before stripping it into chamber. Unfortunately it does not always work.
I found that when I load the mags, if I slap the back of the loaded mag against the palm of my hand, it will drive the loaded rds. to the back of the mag. It works for me! I have well over 1,500 rds through my Shield.45 and never have a failure to feed. Incidentally, all my mags still have the original non-modified followers! I hope this is of some help to you who are still having difficulties with this problem!
I learned this trick from fellow forum member, Jessie in his post #20.
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