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  #1  
Old 04-10-2018, 10:41 AM
deerstalker deerstalker is offline
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Default So much for "Life Time Warranty"..

Looks like smith and wesson doesn't honor it's lifetime warranty. Was at the range last month shooting my 9mm shield at the plate rack, on the 5th round the firearm exploded in my hands, extractor broke poking a hole in my cheek. It had fire out of battery, call s&w, sent in back. Got a letter saying that an over pressurized round did the damage, no fault of the firearm. I was shooting blazer factory ammo. Ya it was over pressurized, when it was detonied before getting into the chamber. Needless to say I'm done with any new s&w guns coming out on the market, I think their Quality Control need a good look at some of their new designs. The barrel and slide are ok, they survived.
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Old 04-10-2018, 10:52 AM
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If you have not already gone up the chain there, I would call customer service and ask to speak to a manager/supervisor. A modern pistol using factory ammo that has this type of failure seems to be a straightforward warranty issue to me.
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Old 04-10-2018, 11:00 AM
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You sure do have problems with your S&W's.
First the back slide plate drops down causing the firing pin to hit you in the chest.
And now your Shield blows up leaving a hole in your cheek.
Really?
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Old 04-10-2018, 11:22 AM
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A friend of mine was pretty high up in Ruger's Prescott, AZ plant before retiring. He has story after story of customers sending in trashed guns and saying "I have no idea what happened" only to find that there was conclusive evidence of customer abuse with overloaded rounds like a case full of Bullseye instead of a powder recommended or firing a second round after a squib load plugged the barrel.

If the customer was honest (he'd often call them) he might just blow it off and give them a new gun but if they blew smoke at him, he refused the repair.

I can't know for certain what happened in this case.

I worked at Sandia National Laboratories, sister lab for Los Alamos for 17 yrs. Guard force was practicing and one of the Glock's barrels peeled back like a banana while using Federal ammo. Federal blamed Glock's barrels, Los Alamos's metallurgical lab examined the barrel, all was proper. Bad round.

Personally, I think S&W has some of the best customer service in the industry. Don
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Old 04-10-2018, 11:45 AM
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Go to CCI if it was an ammo causes issue. Send them the info from smith and Wesson.


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Old 04-10-2018, 12:37 PM
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I've always had excellent customer service with S&W . I was honest , told them exactly what the problem was and how it happened . I've had guns fully repaired at no cost . Regards, Paul
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Old 04-10-2018, 01:00 PM
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Default The ammo manufacturer and S&W.....

...may have to fight it out, but I believe that one of those companies should render some compensation. Be sure to save the rounds that were in the mag as well as any other evidence.
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Old 04-10-2018, 01:49 PM
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My experiences with S&W customer service are extremely varied. Once I was told I spend too much time on the internet. My purchasing of new S&W guns has all but stopped. (9mm Shield) On the other hand, back when Doug Brassard was there the customer service was some of the best I've ever experienced.
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Old 04-10-2018, 03:04 PM
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I sent in a 317 for spitting lead, willing to pay for a new cylinder or whatever. I got a brand new gun.

My buddy's forcing cone cracked on his 586....first I've witnessed in 50 years. He sent it in and got it back in only 3 weeks with a new barrel...for $350.
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  #10  
Old 04-10-2018, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwsmith View Post
...may have to fight it out, but I believe that one of those companies should render some compensation. Be sure to save the rounds that were in the mag as well as any other evidence.
You think S&W should pay up/replace if it is clearly human error on the part of the owner and they can prove it? I don't think so.

Guess you didn't read my post? Just because a company is large doesn't mean it needs to waste their money. Don
  #11  
Old 04-10-2018, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonD View Post
...there was conclusive evidence of customer abuse with overloaded rounds like a case full of Bullseye instead of a powder recommended .... Don
Short of a video and taped confession, I'd like hear or see of some such "conclusive evidence."

I've followed exhaustive accounts of laboratory examination of gun blow-ups by engineers, metallurgists, etc, and they rarely conclude with more than a guess.
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  #12  
Old 04-10-2018, 03:26 PM
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OP how do you know the gun fired out of battery? Seems if you were aware of it you would not have pulled the trigger. As far as factory ammo I avoid them like the plague, I have no idea if the factory screws up. On the other hand they cannot afford to put the quality control that I put into my own ammo.
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Old 04-10-2018, 03:36 PM
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I'm thinking the OP is making this stuff up or that he modifies the gun's (if he really owns them) and now looking for a way to make money or get a free replacement's on his own screw up's.

The OP never replied to comments on his own thread.
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Old 04-10-2018, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonD View Post
You think S&W should pay up/replace if it is clearly human error on the part of the owner and they can prove it? I don't think so.

Guess you didn't read my post? Just because a company is large doesn't mean it needs to waste their money. Don
He is referring to factory ammo and unmodified guns, Not screwball antics with them.

If it IS operator neglect or abuse then no. If it was factory ammo and un-fiddled with gun then yes. Or the ammo company if it is a faulty round.
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Old 04-10-2018, 03:49 PM
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I sent my 686-6 back, after the cylinder would lock up repeatedly. It would only occur with Hornady 158 grain rounds.

It was repaired and shipped free of charge.

I too, would like to hear why the OP pulled the trigger if the gun was out of battery. I think there may be something for all of us relative newbies to learn.
  #16  
Old 04-10-2018, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backon4 View Post
Go to CCI if it was an ammo causes issue. Send them the info from smith and Wesson.


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I LIKE THIS APPROACH. UNLESS A RELOAD WAS INVOLVED, EITHER CCI OR S&W SHOULD BE RESPONSIBLE, FOR THIS DAMAGE. ITS DOUBTFUL THAT IT CAN BE ATTRIBUTED TO OPERATOR ERROR, IMHO.....

ONE THING THAT DISTURBS ME, IS THAT IN AN EARLIER POST #3, OZARK MARINE (WHOSE OPINIONS I RESPECT) MADE REFERENCE TO THE FACT THAT THE OP, WHOSE CHEEK WAS INJURED, HAD SUFFERED A PRIOR INCIDENT, WHEREIN HE WAS STRUCK WITH A FIRING PIN, FROM A MALFUNCTIONING PISTOL......

I DON'T KNOW THE MOTIVE BEHIND THAT REMARK, BUT TO ME (AND I COULD BE ALL WRONG) IT APPEARED TO BE AN ATTEMPT TO QUESTION THE CREDIBILITY, OF THE OP........

IN ANY EVENT, AS I HAVE STATED MORE THAN ONCE ON THIS FORUM, THE QUALITY CONTROL FUNCTION AT S&W, APPEARS TO HAVE INCREASINGLY BECOME THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE END USER. ITS QUITE CONCEIVABLE TO ME, THAT THE OP COULD BE THE VICTIM OF LACK OF QC, IN TWO SEPARATE INCIDENTS. UNLUCKY, BUT IMHO, TOTALLY POSSIBLE......
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Old 04-10-2018, 04:06 PM
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If it truly was the ammo, go after CCI with lots of proof. If Jiffy Lube forgets to put oil in my new Chevy, should Chevy cover the warranty?
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Old 04-10-2018, 04:07 PM
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Ok,you all have had your opinion,so be it. The round that failed blew the back half of the cartridge out of the chamber. I had to drive the case out of the barrel. The round ignited before it was in full battery, and locked up. I have been up and down the ladder talking with anyone at s&w that would listen. All I need to get the firearm back up and running was the plastic frame, and a ejector. To me that is chump change to keep a customer happy. And ozzieark marine, NO the gun has not been modified, and No it was not made up. What for? So if you wasn't there, then all you got is this,
an Opinion. I'm done with s and w..
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Old 04-10-2018, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deerstalker View Post
Got a letter saying that an over pressurized round did the damage, no fault of the firearm. I was shooting blazer factory ammo. Ya it was over pressurized, when it was detonied before getting into the chamber.

The barrel and slide are ok, they survived.

Do you have the damaged case ? Picture..? It tells a story.
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Old 04-10-2018, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by deerstalker View Post
Ok,you all have had your opinion,so be it. The round that failed blew the back half of the cartridge out of the chamber. I had to drive the case out of the barrel. The round ignited before it was in full battery, and locked up. I have been up and down the ladder talking with anyone at s&w that would listen. All I need to get the firearm back up and running was the plastic frame, and a ejector. To me that is chump change to keep a customer happy. And ozzieark marine, NO the gun has not been modified, and No it was not made up. What for? So if you wasn't there, then all you got is this,
an Opinion. I'm done with s and w..
I'm sorry you had to experience this, as it's not a shining moment for S&W.

And the other member had no call to get uppity with you on it. My apologies for the bad service here and at customer service.
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Old 04-10-2018, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by one eye joe View Post
I LIKE THIS APPROACH. UNLESS A RELOAD WAS INVOLVED, EITHER CCI OR S&W SHOULD BE RESPONSIBLE, FOR THIS DAMAGE. ITS DOUBTFUL THAT IT CAN BE ATTRIBUTED TO OPERATOR ERROR, IMHO.....

ONE THING THAT DISTURBS ME, IS THAT IN AN EARLIER POST, SOMEONE MADE REFERENCE TO THE FACT THAT THE MEMBER WHOSE CHEEK WAS INJURED, HAD SUFFERED A PRIOR INCIDENT, WHEREIN HE WAS STRUCK WITH A FIRING PIN, FROM A MALFUNCTIONING PISTOL......

I DON'T KNOW THE MOTIVE BEHIND THAT REMARK, BUT TO ME (AND I COULD BE ALL WRONG) IT APPEARED TO BE A VEILED ATTEMPT TO DISCREDIT THE OP. I HOPE THAT I AM WRONG ABOUT THIS.......

IN ANY EVENT, AS I HAVE STATED MORE THAN ONCE ON THIS FORUM, THE QUALITY CONTROL FUNCTION AT S&W, APPEARS TO HAVE INCREASINGLY BECOME THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE END USER .......
Just call me cynical one eye joe.
How does someone get a firing pin in the chest?
If it really happened, he'd be one eyed too.
Unless he aims and fires from the chest.
A new way to shoot? I don't know.

Then his shield blows up.

What's next?
His S&W revolver goes full auto?
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Old 04-10-2018, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozark Marine View Post
Just call me cynical one eye joe.
How does someone get a firing pin in the chest?
If it really happened, he'd be one eyed too.
Unless he aims and fires from the chest.
A new way to shoot? I don't know.

Then his shield blows up.

What's next?
His S&W revolver goes full auto?
Without any evidence to the contrary there is no reason to believe he made this up.

Why the hostility and the attack on his character?
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Old 04-10-2018, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozark Marine View Post
Just call me cynical one eye joe.
How does someone get a firing pin in the chest?
If it really happened, he'd be one eyed too.
Unless he aims and fires from the chest.
A new way to shoot? I don't know.

Then his shield blows up.

What's next?
His S&W revolver goes full auto?
Some should really keep their opinions to themselves.

It's is entirely possible that as the firing pin broke loose it was deflected and struck him where he says. Would you prefer a picture of an eye injury to satisfy this claim.
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Old 04-10-2018, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkingwolf View Post
OP how do you know the gun fired out of battery? Seems if you were aware of it you would not have pulled the trigger.
The OP seems to have stopped participating. But, the question I have is most modern firearm designs do not allow a trigger to release a striker, firing pin, or hammer without the bolt/slide being completely in battery. Most of the time the design incorporates physical interference of the bolt or slide that keeps the trigger from releasing the sear or striker. Does anyone know of a modern gun that can be fired out of battery?

I agree it would be hard for me as a layman to mechanical failure analysis to determine cause. If I had a similar claim against a gun or ammo manufacturer I’d copy both the firearm and ammo manufacturer on the same letter describing the failure-with photos of both the firearm and ammo. I’d include, to the extent the pieces exist or could be recovered, photos of the shell case, lot number, firearm and pieces, SN of the firearm. I’d send registered return receipt and ask for a response within 10 days.

Last edited by spad124; 04-10-2018 at 04:27 PM.
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Old 04-10-2018, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medic15al View Post
Without any evidence to the contrary there is no reason to believe he made this up.

Why the hostility and the attack on his character?
No hostility.
And no attack on his character.
I just don't believe his stories.
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Old 04-10-2018, 04:30 PM
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No hostility.
And no attack on his character.
I just don't believe his stories.
OK

The syntax of your posts do suggest it, so maybe word it a bit differently?
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Old 04-10-2018, 04:33 PM
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Here is the thing, his beef is with S&W not me, or not us. Whatever happened WILL NOT change my use of S&W firearms, though in my case that is all revolvers.

While it may be good to vent, I should not be required to get upset at Smith. And I won't, especially without any image evidence. I have no way of knowing if this was a ammo issue, or the gun actually fired out of battery.

Just out of curiosity I tried to get my Glock 37 to fire(unloaded) out of battery. I was unsuccessful, I would think something had to be wrong with the gun in the first place to fire OOB, and S&W probably checked the gun for signs of malfunctioning parts.
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Old 04-10-2018, 04:38 PM
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OK

The syntax of your posts do suggest it, so maybe word it a bit differently?
When were you appointed as a moderator here?
I'm not the one out of line.
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Old 04-10-2018, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by spad124 View Post
Does anyone know of a modern gun that can be fired out of battery?
Recently picked up a Sig 716. It is sensitive to ammo. One of my reloads did not fully chamber. it has fluting cuts in the case neck area.

The trigger dropped and as you say it struck the rear of the bolt. Had it chambered just a little more the result could have been catastrophic.. Gun has gone by by...
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Old 04-10-2018, 04:45 PM
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When were you appointed as a moderator here?
I'm not the one out of line.
Yeah you are. And this post shows the problem.
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  #31  
Old 04-10-2018, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by bigggbbruce View Post
Recently picked up a Sig 716. It is sensitive to ammo. One of my reloads did not fully chamber. it has fluting cuts in the case neck area.

The trigger dropped and as you say it struck the rear of the bolt. Had it chambered just a little more the result could have been catastrophic.. Gun has gone by by...
I've witnessed an AR-15 fire out of battery with some lower receiver damage. Another one was a FEG DA 9mm of some model as well.
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Old 04-10-2018, 04:52 PM
Ozark Marine Ozark Marine is offline
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Yeah you are. And this post shows the problem.
Then tell the mods you don't like my opinion's about why the OP's guns blow up, and send firing pins into his face.
Simple, right?
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Old 04-10-2018, 04:52 PM
DonD DonD is offline
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Originally Posted by medic15al View Post
He is referring to factory ammo and unmodified guns, Not screwball antics with them.
Your observation in this instance is correct. Not saying the OP is being dishonest but people do often embelish circumstances in order to make their outcome better. Don
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Old 04-10-2018, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by medic15al View Post
I've witnessed an AR-15 fire out of battery with some lower receiver damage. Another one was a FEG DA 9mm of some model as well.
So do you suggest I never buy an AR, or any FEG firearms. Just what am I supposed to do with the above information. Complaining about firearms is all well, and good on the internet, but that is of no practical use for me. I suspect it is no practical use for others.

He was given good advice to move forward with Smith, now it is up to him to do it, NOT I. I suspect that others here also will not be contacting Smith to wage a complaint on his behalf. Are you going to?
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Old 04-10-2018, 04:53 PM
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I'm just being upfront and honest here, the OP offered no details, no dates of when he sent it in, or when he received a reply, how did he receive the reply; email or letter. Who did he speak to? Names? No details, Nada. All we got was nothing but just a rant...

I want the 2 minutes of my life wasted I spent going thru the comments back.

Last edited by RGVshooter; 04-10-2018 at 04:55 PM.
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Old 04-10-2018, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by one eye joe View Post
I LIKE THIS APPROACH. UNLESS A RELOAD WAS INVOLVED, EITHER CCI OR S&W SHOULD BE RESPONSIBLE, FOR THIS DAMAGE. ITS DOUBTFUL THAT IT CAN BE ATTRIBUTED TO OPERATOR ERROR, IMHO.....
When people reload and cast their own bullets, the possibility of operator error increases.

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My name is Richard, go by Deerstalker: ..... I like shooting, fishing,Reloading and casting bullitt's. Been travel some too.
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Originally Posted by deerstalker View Post
I've had that happen a few times and what i found was the case was not full sized and was larger at the base, causing it not to full seat in the chamber..
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Old 04-10-2018, 04:57 PM
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Without getting immersed in the personal controversy, I have always been told that Ruger doesn't believe that anyone can blow up their guns so if one does blow they will replace it free of charge. Lying to them about it is silly since their policy is so broad. S&W, on the other hand, has a "bifurcated" policy, to wit:

If a gun blows up they want you to send it to them. They will examine it to determine if it is (a) metallurgy at fault or (b) something extraneous, usually bad ammunition. Their policy WAS, as explained to me by Customer Service 18 or 20 years ago, if it is "a" they will replace the gun, period. If it is "b" they will replace the gun at their cost. My blown up Model 19 fit into the "a" category (which I figured, actually [long story]) so they let me buy a new gun (any gun I wanted) at their cost.

I have not blown up another gun so I have not had the opportunity to do that again but I really think that is still their policy. About three years ago, maybe two, I bought some S&W factory 6906 magazines from Midway. They were defective. I sent them to S&W and they sent me new ones that worked.

So I work on the presumption that their policy is unchanged.
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Old 04-10-2018, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Ozark Marine View Post
Then tell the mods you don't like my opinion's about why the OP's guns blow up, and send firing pins into his face.
Simple, right?
I'm not a mod and no reason to get them involved.

I'm just suggesting you stop posting like a jackwagon as between forum members. You know, work it out without giving mods a headache.

There are more intelligent ways to disagree by using a little tact and better wording rather than taking out your bad mood on others.
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Old 04-10-2018, 05:02 PM
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medic15al medic15al is offline
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Originally Posted by DonD View Post
Your observation in this instance is correct. Not saying the OP is being dishonest but people do often embelish circumstances in order to make their outcome better. Don
Good point.
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Old 04-10-2018, 05:04 PM
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medic15al medic15al is offline
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So do you suggest I never buy an AR, or any FEG firearms. Just what am I supposed to do with the above information. Complaining about firearms is all well, and good on the internet, but that is of no practical use for me. I suspect it is no practical use for others.

He was given good advice to move forward with Smith, now it is up to him to do it, NOT I. I suspect that others here also will not be contacting Smith to wage a complaint on his behalf. Are you going to?
I was answering the posters question as to "Has anybody seen an Out of Battery discharge". No more, no less.

And yes he was given sound advice I agree with that.
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Old 04-10-2018, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by medic15al View Post
I was answering the posters question as to "Has anybody seen an Out of Battery discharge". No more, no less.

And yes he was given sound advice I agree with that.
Then we are probably done here? It seems that at this point some people are going to be skeptical, that is really a good thing as no personal attacks are leveled. So far I have not seen any, only the accusation that there has been. If skepticism is a problem, or considered a personal attack it may be time to examine being on any social media.
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Old 04-10-2018, 05:24 PM
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medic15al medic15al is offline
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Then we are probably done here? It seems that at this point some people are going to be skeptical, that is really a good thing as no personal attacks are leveled. So far I have not seen any, only the accusation that there has been. If skepticism is a problem, or considered a personal attack it may be time to examine being on any social media.
I agree. Let's not mar S&W Forum any more and get back to topic.
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Old 04-10-2018, 05:45 PM
Ozark Marine Ozark Marine is offline
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Good medic15al .
Now where's the OP's pics and documentation of all the malfunctions he's had.
If he can't post them here, he should be able to email or text them, correct?
Here's my email to send the the pics and any docs to:

beerlvr9mm@gmail.com
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