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Old 04-14-2018, 07:44 AM
smoke33 smoke33 is offline
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Default S&W Shield answer to the Sig 365

Pretty simple here. Will S&W come out with an answer to the 365? What do you think it will look like dimension wise, capacity, etc. maybe one of you tech guys have already been thinking about this and have already made a CAD of one.
I am asking these questions because I figure there may be some here who may have been around long enough to see something like this and what takes place.


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Old 04-14-2018, 08:01 AM
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I think most manufactures will be watching Sig 365 closely to gauge the market for the semi-double stack concept. How they react will depend largely on how 365 sales do in the long run.
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Old 04-14-2018, 08:34 AM
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Held a 365 yesterday (LGS)...for me and my hands it's just toooooooo small...not a good fit for me.....

Will others copy-cat??? Kinda doubt it....

Would I give up Shield for some like weapon...?? depends on how it fits me....My shield carrys 10 anyway and fits...so why change?
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Old 04-14-2018, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by dben002 View Post
Held a 365 yesterday (LGS)...for me and my hands it's just toooooooo small...not a good fit for me.....

Will others copy-cat??? Kinda doubt it....

Would I give up Shield for some like weapon...?? depends on how it fits me....My shield carrys 10 anyway and fits...so why change?


I see your point but the 365 carries 10 with a much smaller footprint. Also, these are conceal carry guns used for close range protection, not range guns requiring downrange accuracy. If I can have a gun that prints less, has a smaller footprint, conceals better, and hits where I need it at close range, Iím in.


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Old 04-14-2018, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Wee Hooker View Post
I think most manufactures will be watching Sig 365 closely to gauge the market for the semi-double stack concept. How they react will depend largely on how 365 sales do in the long run.


So you believe S&W as well as others, are just sitting back, watching what happens? I would think they would have their R&D guys working non stop to come up with an answer. Even if it never comes to market. Interesting. Maybe they are.


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Old 04-14-2018, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by smoke33 View Post
I see your point but the 365 carries 10 with a much smaller footprint. Also, these are conceal carry guns used for close range protection, not range guns requiring downrange accuracy. If I can have a gun that prints less, has a smaller footprint, conceals better, and hits where I need it at close range, Iím in.


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And I agree with that and if the 365 does that for you it's a no brainer....but for all those reasons stated is why I carry the Shield.
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Old 04-14-2018, 09:01 AM
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And I agree with that and if the 365 does that for you it's a no brainer....but for all those reasons stated is why I carry the Shield.


I love my Shield, but it could be better and Sig has shown how that can be done. You answered what your thoughts are, what do you think S&W will or is doing?


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Old 04-14-2018, 09:08 AM
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I love my Shield, but it could be better and Sig has shown how that can be done. You answered what your thoughts are, what do you think S&W will or is doing?


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I personally don't think S&W is or will do anything to copy the 365 at this point....The 365 even with the upgrades is still showing a few problems (Harry's Holsters 500 round update as of yesterday) and there are still reports of broken firing pins....Now that's not to say a year or two down the road after proof positive that this new mag system on the 365 is a stable configuration some manufacturer may go in that direction but you are talking hundred's of thousand dollars in research and development and manufacturing dollars.....Don't think anyone is going to rush in that direction for some time...and maybe never.
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Old 04-14-2018, 09:14 AM
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Default S&W Shield answer to the Sig 365

SW never answered the P938/238 back when they were all the rage.

While Iíll admit interest in the P365; they didnít do anything revolutionary. They just started with a goal of a couple more rounds (my assumption) and built a small as possible platform around it.

I think SW is pretty committed to the current configurations for the foreseeable future.

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Old 04-14-2018, 09:51 AM
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Default Perhaps?

An S&W compromise could be a Shield, the current size but with MUCH greater capacity.
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Old 04-14-2018, 10:00 AM
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I didn't know S&W needed an answer to the P365.

The P365 runs about $120 more than the Shield in my neck of the woods. That's real money for some people.

Strange how we OOOOH and AAAAH over Semi-auto round count, but when it comes to a J-frame we insist that we're adequately armed when we carry the .38 five shot.
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Old 04-14-2018, 11:03 AM
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There’s nothing wrong with the Shield.

The slide returns to battery, the barrel and firing pin are not damaged by firing the gun and the sights stay put.

Carry on...
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Old 04-14-2018, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeppo View Post
An S&W compromise could be a Shield, the current size but with MUCH greater capacity.
Try this....it works......

S&W Shield  answer to the Sig 365-magguts-10-round-package-jpg S&W Shield  answer to the Sig 365-magguts-8-rounder-jpg

S&W Shield  answer to the Sig 365-magguts-7-rounder-jpg S&W Shield  answer to the Sig 365-magguts-both-mags-jpg

Magguts zeespring +2 replacement system
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Old 04-14-2018, 11:36 AM
smoke33 smoke33 is offline
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The Magguts is an option but you are now increasing the footprint. Makes the 365 even smaller for comparison.
As far as listing problems the 365 is having, not sure what that has to do with S&W coming out with one. ?? Are you saying they would design it with the same flaws the 365 has? I would think they would try to not repeat those issues but thatís just me.
I guess what I find funny is the resistance that some have here to a smaller higher capacity cc gun is similar to what I heard when single stack guns came to be.


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Old 04-14-2018, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by smoke33 View Post
The Magguts is an option but you are now increasing the footprint. Makes the 365 even smaller for comparison.
As far as listing problems the 365 is having, not sure what that has to do with S&W coming out with one. ?? Are you saying they would design it with the same flaws the 365 has? I would think they would try to not repeat those issues but thatís just me.
I guess what I find funny is the resistance that some have here to a smaller higher capacity cc gun is similar to what I heard when single stack guns came to be.


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Magguts concealability not a problem what so ever if you know what your doing........ S&W Shield  answer to the Sig 365-afox4-jpg

an no what I am saying is that the dollars involved in the R&D and manufacturing of a "new" weapon design is tremendous and the R&D and the manufacturing has to be exact so as NOT to repeat the mistakes other made. 8 or 10 rounds in a Shield is probably 5 to 7 rounds more than you would ever have to use in a SD senerio. If you need 10 to 12 you are probably involved in something you should not be involved in.
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Old 04-14-2018, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee Hooker View Post
I think most manufactures will be watching Sig 365 closely to gauge the market for the semi-double stack concept.
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Originally Posted by mcap1655 View Post
I think SW is pretty committed to the single stack line for the foreseeable future.
You guys do realize, don't you, that the Shield is a Stagger-Stack ("semi-double stack concept") pistol and not a 'true' Single-Stack?
(Look at the 'shoulders' on the Shield mags)
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Old 04-14-2018, 11:52 AM
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You guys do realize, don't you, that the Shield is a Stagger-Stack ("semi-double stack concept") pistol and not a 'true' Single-Stack?
(Look at the 'shoulders' on the Shield mags)
Yes, indeed.....so true...and the 365 is stagger stacked from round 3 to 10 or 3 to 12......
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Old 04-14-2018, 11:53 AM
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I could see S&W working to bring back a modified and thinner M&P 9c 1.0.

This would offer customers the choice of the super thin single stack shield, similar barrel size increased capacity revised 9cc (or whatever they could name it), the longer barrel and higher capacity 2.0 m&p 9c and full size, full capacity M&P.

I will stick with my 1.0 shield, at least for now. I have no desire for the new 2.0 9c as it is too large. I might be interested in a 1.0 9c but I have smaller hands and the true double stack is OK but not comfortable to me. I would love to see a slimmer semi-doinle stack 1.0 9c. That might be enough for me to switch oit my shield. Until then. I will stay with the tried and true shield. Although I may try mag guts spring kit in the meantime.
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Old 04-14-2018, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dben002 View Post

If you need 10 to 12 you are probably involved in something you should not be involved in.

Careful now! Thatís like say why does a person need an AR! Lol



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Old 04-14-2018, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by smoke33 View Post
The Magguts is an option but you are now increasing the footprint. Makes the 365 even smaller for comparison.
As far as listing problems the 365 is having, not sure what that has to do with S&W coming out with one. ?? Are you saying they would design it with the same flaws the 365 has? I would think they would try to not repeat those issues but thatís just me.
I guess what I find funny is the resistance that some have here to a smaller higher capacity cc gun is similar to what I heard when single stack guns came to be.


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A more reasoned reply - unless there is a significant dip in sales, I don't see S&W expediting R&D for a new, higher capacity sub-compact 9mm. It will eventually come, I suppose, but I would expect it to be part of a longer term strategy than an immediate response.

Right now S&W is probably making a decent profit on the shield, because the R&D costs are now nil. The Shield name now has a lot of good will in the gun community, which also reduces marketing costs somewhat as compared to a new gun.

Merely looking at it from a dollars point of view, which is what every gun company does, rushing out a new and "better" product as an immediate reaction to a competitor may actually cost the company more in the long run than staying with the status quo for now. There's a balance between always putting out something new and staying the course to maximize profits on an existing line.

Like I said, I think there will be something new in good time. Gun companies are now entering a phase where the products are changing at a faster pace than before. But I don't think it will be any time soon.
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Old 04-14-2018, 11:58 AM
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A more reasoned reply - unless there is a significant dip in sales, I don't see S&W expediting R&D for a new, higher capacity sub-compact 9mm. It will eventually come, I suppose, but I would expect it to be part of a longer term strategy than an immediate response.



Right now S&W is probably making a decent profit on the shield, because the R&D costs are now nil. The Shield name now has a lot of good will in the gun community, which also reduces marketing costs somewhat as compared to a new gun.



Merely looking at it from a dollars point of view, which is what every gun company does, rushing out a new and "better" product as an immediate reaction to a competitor may actually cost the company more in the long run than staying with the status quo for now. There's a balance between always putting out something new and staying the course to maximize profits on an existing line.



Like I said, I think there will be something new in good time. Gun companies are now entering a phase where the products are changing at a faster pace than before. But I don't think it will be any time soon.


Reasonable reply.S&W Shield  answer to the Sig 365


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Old 04-14-2018, 12:00 PM
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Careful now! Thatís like say why does a person need an AR! Lol



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That's a fair question....I pose it to you..why does one need a AR? Not for hunting, not for target practice....Expecting an invasion?..a revolution?..and even if an invasion or a revolution came about your AR will be worthless against drones, tanks, rocket launchers, and other military grade weapons....
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Old 04-14-2018, 12:04 PM
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That's a fair question....I pose it to you..why does one need a AR? Not for hunting, not for target practice....Expecting an invasion?..a revolution?..and even if an invasion or a revolution came about your AR will be worthless against drones, tanks, rocket launchers, and other military grade weapons....

My constitutional right does not require a need.


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Old 04-14-2018, 12:09 PM
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My constitutional right does not require a need.


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Indeed...I never said you should not have one, or want one....
as as you said right now you do have the right to have it..there a big difference between having a want, and a need.....

I want a Shelby GT Mustang...I don't need it....My dodge grand caravan will get me there.
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Old 04-14-2018, 12:20 PM
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That's a fair question....I pose it to you..why does one need a AR? Not for hunting, not for target practice....Expecting an invasion?..a revolution?..and even if an invasion or a revolution came about your AR will be worthless against drones, tanks, rocket launchers, and other military grade weapons....
This philosophy extended further about why we need an AR will lead to:

Well since the human race was able to exist and successfully hunt for thousands if not millions of years without ANY firearm, why do we need ANY firearms?

See the ludicrously of that philosophy. And is exactly why the founders saw fit To ensconce the right into the constitution as it was inevitable that this antigun philosophy would rear its ugly head.

I will take my chances against an armed invasion with an AR, over a pea shooter and a sling.

I will let others make their own free will choice which gun, or not to own.

Any why cant an AR be used for hunting? The AR 10 is a 308 win. An excellent roind for hunting. Or the 300 blackout that is equivalent to a 30-30, another excellent hunting round? What is the effective difference between a .223 Rem and a 22-250 within a 100 yards or so for varmit or coyote hunting?

The platform or the asthetics is NO reason to use as a means of making something illegal. That type of differentiation only is an indication of the lack of intelligence of the person professing that nonsense!
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Old 04-14-2018, 12:21 PM
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That's a fair question....I pose it to you..why does one need a AR? Not for hunting, not for target practice....Expecting an invasion?..a revolution?..and even if an invasion or a revolution came about your AR will be worthless against drones, tanks, rocket launchers, and other military grade weapons....
Because they are fun to shoot.
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Old 04-14-2018, 12:22 PM
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Because they are fun to shoot.
Can't argue with that sentiment...
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Old 04-14-2018, 12:57 PM
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They could start offering rebates on the Shield again. While us gun enthusiasts are all talking about the 365 there are a lot more people that just want a gun that is small enough to easily carry, reliable but not too expensive.

Guns that push the envelope for being small and light for caliber tend to be finicky. They are also harder to shoot well. S&W would do well to keep making a slightly larger, heavier gun that holds a couple of less rounds but is reliable, durable and reasonably priced.

The Kahr PM9 I owned had a surprisingly short number of rounds between being broken in and needing a new recoil spring. It required a very firm grip to be completely reliable which was not a problem at the range but I always worried what would happen if I actually needed to use it and had a less than perfect grip. The Glock 43 I replaced it with is only a few ounces heavier but much less finicky. I am probably going to buy a 365 out of curiosity at some point but right now they sound more like my old PM9 than a Glock 43 or Shield when it comes to durability and reliability. When it comes to durabilty I know the 365 is "meant to be a carry gun, not a range gun" but that has never made any sense to me. Why would I shoot and become proficient with guns I never carry instead of the gun I actually do carry? I own range guns I shoot for fun but the one gun I always take to the range is my Glock 43.

I doubt Smith will come out with direct competition to the 365 anytime soon. But I do expect them to come out with a double stack subcompact to replace the 12 round 1.0 "compact". It would not surprise me if they reduced the round count to 10 both to make the gun shorter and because some states only allow 10. They could also make the barrel a little shorter and perhaps make the slide a little thinner. It would still be more like the Glock 26 than the Sig 365 but would fit nicely between the Shield and 2.0 compact in the M&P line. A lot of people like the option of a small gun that can take the same magazine as larger guns. That those 15 and 17 round magazines are $25 S&W mags instead of $50 Sig mags is another plus for S&W.

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Old 04-14-2018, 01:04 PM
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S&W has sold like 2 million shields already, so I dont think they are going to change anything in the near future.
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Old 04-14-2018, 01:49 PM
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I am asking these questions because I figure there may be some here who may have been around long enough to see something like this and what takes place.
Here is a perspective from more than 50 years of shooting.

Why would S&W or other manufacturers care about an "answer" to the P365?

A Shield seems to be a good compromise between size or concealability and shootability, or at least a couple of million owners think so.

A Shield is 0.3" taller and longer than a P365, which is about the width of a common lead pencil. An unloaded Shield is 0.5 ounces heavier, but a P365's extra rounds bring its loaded weight to 0.8 ounces more than a Shield. Realistically, those differences in specifications are pretty meaningless.

If having the smallest, lightest gun is the only thing that matters, true pocket .380s are available as highly concealable get-off-me guns.

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Old 04-14-2018, 03:10 PM
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Strange how we OOOOH and AAAAH over Semi-auto round count, but when it comes to a J-frame we insist that we're adequately armed when we carry the .38 five shot.
Very good point!

I carry my Shield 45 with the six round mag (with the Pearce extension) and one round chambered, plus two more six round mags...6 + 1 plus 12 rounds gives me 19 rounds to address any threat. Speaking of which, I've never had to do and fervently hope that always remains true. AND, based on the average civilian encounters, the average rounds expended are 3 or less...I feel that I'm more than adequately armed.
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Old 04-14-2018, 04:59 PM
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All depends on the market. If the P365 starts eating into S&Ws sales then of course they will have to come up with something with a similar round count and footprint to compete.

S&W has done this plenty of times before. The Sigma series was in response to the Glock and similar pistols. The Bodyguard 38 was a response to the LCR. The Governor was a response to the Judge. And so on...
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Old 04-14-2018, 08:20 PM
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I've done a small bit of analysis of the Shield mag. I noticed one day that the Shield's mag was about 1/8th of an inch longer than a Kel-Tec PF-9 mag. Both have the same capacity. The PF's mag is a true single stack though.

I did some measuring and it looked to me that the Shield's contour adds just a little over 1/2 of a cartridge to it's capacity. So, none.

One might conclude that Smith designed the mag the way they did because they had first decided on the width of the butt and then built a mag to fit the mag well.

Interesting.


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Old 04-14-2018, 08:29 PM
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That's a fair question....I pose it to you..why does one need a AR? Not for hunting, not for target practice....Expecting an invasion?..a revolution?..and even if an invasion or a revolution came about your AR will be worthless against drones, tanks, rocket launchers, and other military grade weapons....
The ownership of the rifle 'symbolically' preserves the 2nd amendment. That is its real purpose and how it can defeat all that violence which could in theory be used against a citizenry.

The fact we are able to own the rifle means the 2nd Amendment is a REAL constitutional right not a neutered one.

Our founding fathers intended us to own weapons of military (militia) service.

They also assumed the average citizen would be of good moral character and social discipline to join together as needed.

The reason you should own an AR is to 'keep' your rights intact. A right is not preserved if it is NOT exercised.

Here in NY they are neutering our rights one at a time. Speech included through social pressure. If you choose to accept the laws as is (and advocate your views at social and financial risk) because you agree that you must abide by the social compact your representative governments have made. They can legislate and regulate your rights.

Good luck to you in the free states. IF I overstepped the bounds of conversation I apologize.
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Old 04-14-2018, 08:59 PM
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The ownership of the rifle 'symbolically' preserves the 2nd amendment. That is its real purpose and how it can defeat all that violence which could in theory be used against a citizenry.

The fact we are able to own the rifle means the 2nd Amendment is a REAL constitutional right not a neutered one.

Our founding fathers intended us to own weapons of military (militia) service.

They also assumed the average citizen would be of good moral character and social discipline to join together as needed.

The reason you should own an AR is to 'keep' your rights intact. A right is not preserved if it is NOT exercised.

Here in NY they are neutering our rights one at a time. Speech included through social pressure. If you choose to accept the laws as is (and advocate your views at social and financial risk) because you agree that you must abide by the social compact your representative governments have made. They can legislate and regulate your rights.

Good luck to you in the free states. IF I overstepped the bounds of conversation I apologize.
Not at all my friend happy to have the comments... I don't deny anybody's right to own an AR... Sort of wish I had one but I don't need one. At least at this stage of life I don't.
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Old 04-15-2018, 10:18 AM
Jim PHL Jim PHL is offline
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I think this thread starts off a liitle backwards. I think the 365 is Sigís response to the Shield.


As far as the sidetrack re: ARís, Iím glad that so far weíre still living in a free America and ďjust because I want oneĒ is still enough reason to have one.
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Old 04-15-2018, 10:58 AM
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Will S&W come out with an answer to the 365?
You've got it backward friend. The Sig P365 is an attempt to compete with the Shield.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smoke33 View Post
I see your point but the 365 carries 10 with a much smaller footprint.
Much smaller? Your idea of "much smaller" and mine are very far apart. It's slightly smaller and in a dimension that doesn't really matter; length.

The S&W Shield is the best selling gun for a reason. It's big enough for people to be able to manipulate and small enough to conceal easily. S&W got it right and would be foolish to try to make the gun smaller.

There are a lot of small guns out there. The Shield is the best of the bunch. No response from S&W is necessary.
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Old 04-15-2018, 11:14 AM
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You've got it backward friend. The Sig P365 is an attempt to compete with the Shield.



Much smaller? Your idea of "much smaller" and mine are very far apart. It's slightly smaller and in a dimension that doesn't really matter; length.



The S&W Shield is the best selling gun for a reason. It's big enough for people to be able to manipulate and small enough to conceal easily. S&W got it right and would be foolish to try to make the gun smaller.



There are a lot of small guns out there. The Shield is the best of the bunch. No response from S&W is necessary.


Itís all perspective. It only matters to each individual. I didnít ask what you would do but what will S&W will do.
It may be an answer but if it cuts into Shield sales then SW may need to answer back.
I just asked some questions about if S&W will come out with an answer and everyone wants to take things personally like they have a stake in the company. If some of you havenít noticed, the 365 has created quite a buzz in the gun community. Plenty of Shield owners have one in hand, on order, or waiting for Sig to work out the bugs before trying one out. Just because some of you have no interest doesnít mean there arenít plenty others who are.
I like my Shield, a lot. However, I would not be opposed to a Shield that is the size of a 365. Sorry if that hurts your feelings.


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Last edited by smoke33; 04-15-2018 at 11:31 AM.
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Old 04-15-2018, 11:43 AM
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Oh yes, there are (and will always be) those who ooh and aah about every new model that comes down the pike and just gotta git one, without having even tried shooting one. MANY in that group, after getting their new toy turn around and dump it, because it doesn't meet their expectations (or live up to the Forum Hype).

The Shield sold Two Million Units in near record time. It took Ruger 4 Years to come out with their Striker-Fire version of the LC9 and had modest success at best. It's taken SIG 6 years of studying the Shield's success to come up with their 'contender'. Lets see how well the 365 does in its first 6 Months to a Year.
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Old 04-15-2018, 06:38 PM
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My take is that they should just just concentrate on the Shield M03.

I will probably buy a P365 when I find one, that is just my nature.

I DID NOT upgrade my Shield 9 M01 to a M02. It just didn't offer enough.

As for super small for pocket carry; I go to the 380 Shield EZ or the Bodyguard. But, I mostly carry the Shield 9, with a 8 round mag, in a belt holster.

Shield 9 M03
--------------
1. Make it easier to rack, WITHOUT affecting reliability.
2. If possible, make a 10 round mag that's only slightly longer than the 8 round.
3. Go to the 380 Shield EZ grip stipple. Not too slick, not too rough.

I will definitely upgrade to that one.
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Old 04-16-2018, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by dben002 View Post
Try this....it works......

Attachment 335677 Attachment 335678

Attachment 335679 Attachment 335680

Magguts zeespring +2 replacement system


Have you had any issues with that set up using the Magguts? I saw it a while back but was skeptical.


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Old 04-16-2018, 01:28 PM
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Have you had any issues with that set up using the Magguts? I saw it a while back but was skeptical.


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No...none at all for 300 rounds testing...but using high quality defense ammo only....Federal HST, Speer Gold dot, and Sig Elite v-crown.
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Old 04-16-2018, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by gc70 View Post
Here is a perspective from more than 50 years of shooting.

Why would S&W or other manufacturers care about an "answer" to the P365?

A Shield seems to be a good compromise between size or concealability and shootability, or at least a couple of million owners think so.

A Shield is 0.3" taller and longer than a P365, which is about the width of a common lead pencil. An unloaded Shield is 0.5 ounces heavier, but a P365's extra rounds bring its loaded weight to 0.8 ounces more than a Shield. Realistically, those differences in specifications are pretty meaningless.

If having the smallest, lightest gun is the only thing that matters, true pocket .380s are available as highly concealable get-off-me guns.


Great points. I'm staying with my first generation Shield that has been S&W Shield  answer to the Sig 365% reliable.


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Old 04-16-2018, 02:12 PM
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Well, let's face it, after a rocky start which led to actually stopping production at one point, the SIG P365 has not yet demonstrated itself to be a reliable format, so that's probably something competitors are looking at before they jump on the smaller is better bandwagon. Not to mention tiny guns are often harder to shoot accurately.

As a side note, any American who still does not own an AR-15 and a big stack of 30 rd mags would have to be nuts. Especially with state after state now in the process of banning new sales. Vermont this past week being the latest to ban 30 round mags; now shocked Vermonters who waited too long are scrambling to wake up and stock up before the October deadline.
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Old 04-16-2018, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by rch27834 View Post
Have you had any issues with that set up using the Magguts? I saw it a while back but was skeptical.


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Additional comment to the one below......Have 2 range friends with the zeepring +2 (also in Shields) (sorta where I got the urge) and they have had no problems and a lot more rounds downrange than I with them.....

Sidenote: really can't find any negatives anywhere online with this system...200 more error free rounds downrange and it becomes my 24/7 EDC.....stay tuned.....
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Old 04-16-2018, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by dben002 View Post
Additional comment to the one below......Have 2 range friends with the zeepring +2 (also in Shields) (sorta where I got the urge) and they have had no problems and a lot more rounds downrange than I with them.....

Sidenote: really can't find any negatives anywhere online with this system...200 more error free rounds downrange and it becomes my 24/7 EDC.....stay tuned.....


I might have to invest in some of them



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Old 04-16-2018, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by dben002 View Post
That's a fair question....I pose it to you..why does one need a AR? Not for hunting, not for target practice....Expecting an invasion?..a revolution?..and even if an invasion or a revolution came about your AR will be worthless against drones, tanks, rocket launchers, and other military grade weapons....
Nancy Pelosi, is that you!?
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Old 04-16-2018, 04:14 PM
jhnttrpp jhnttrpp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Practical View Post
The ownership of the rifle 'symbolically' preserves the 2nd amendment. That is its real purpose and how it can defeat all that violence which could in theory be used against a citizenry.

The fact we are able to own the rifle means the 2nd Amendment is a REAL constitutional right not a neutered one.

Our founding fathers intended us to own weapons of military (militia) service.

They also assumed the average citizen would be of good moral character and social discipline to join together as needed.

The reason you should own an AR is to 'keep' your rights intact. A right is not preserved if it is NOT exercised.

Here in NY they are neutering our rights one at a time. Speech included through social pressure. If you choose to accept the laws as is (and advocate your views at social and financial risk) because you agree that you must abide by the social compact your representative governments have made. They can legislate and regulate your rights.

Good luck to you in the free states. IF I overstepped the bounds of conversation I apologize.
You didn't over step one bit. You hit the nail on the head. We have this right plus the rest of the Bill of Rights for one purpose. To oppose tyranny. It was understood what would happen if we did not have them. We would no longer be free.
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Old 04-16-2018, 04:24 PM
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I have Magguts in Kel-Tec, Kahr and S&W pistols. Never an issue with any of them.


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Old 04-19-2018, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobzGuns View Post
You guys do realize, don't you, that the Shield is a Stagger-Stack ("semi-double stack concept") pistol and not a 'true' Single-Stack?
(Look at the 'shoulders' on the Shield mags)
I think it would be easier for S&W to make a staggered stack Shield a true double stack than other makers to transform there single stack to a double stack...
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