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Old 05-24-2018, 12:37 AM
fallhunter fallhunter is offline
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How long until S&W has an answer to the Sig P365? How long until S&W has an answer to the Sig P365? How long until S&W has an answer to the Sig P365? How long until S&W has an answer to the Sig P365? How long until S&W has an answer to the Sig P365?  
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Default How long until S&W has an answer to the Sig P365?

When, if ever, do you folks think Smith & Wesson, (or Glock) will come out with an answer to the Sig P365? Would love to see a Shield re-worked to be a double stack and only 1.05" wide. I would buy that.

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Old 05-24-2018, 08:59 AM
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I've always seen the P365 as Sig's attempt to answer the Shield.
An earlier thread of the same topic has been moved to the Other Brands Sub-Forum.

Keep Shield or upgrade to Sig P365?

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Old 05-24-2018, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobzGuns View Post
I've always seen the P365 as Sig's attempt to answer the Shield.
An earlier thread of the same topic has been moved to the Other Brands Sub-Forum.

Keep Shield or upgrade to Sig P365?


Hum, 2 million shields sold, when the 365 gets to 100k maybe S&W should start thinking about it. Oh and after Sig fixes the out of battery condition and the other items I have seen maybe.


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Old 05-24-2018, 09:36 AM
Mike, SC Hunter Mike, SC Hunter is offline
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Originally Posted by markmiela View Post
Hum, 2 million shields sold, when the 365 gets to 100k maybe S&W should start thinking about it. Oh and after Sig fixes the out of battery condition and the other items I have seen maybe.


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So true. Sig's little pistol is no big deal. Other than people going ga-ga over 2 extra rounds. If you want the extra rounds in the Shield get the magazine innards from Mag-guts. Besides the 365 is an ugly pistol.
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Old 05-24-2018, 10:41 AM
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It's a bit more than "2 extra rounds." The 365 is about the size of a Kahr PM9, which is truly tiny, significantly smaller than a Shield. I haven't handled a 365, but I hear the trigger is similar to a Kahr, as in longer and smoother than the M&P's short "click." It's a very different gun than the Shield overall.

If S&W wants to compete with the 365 they'll have to develop a whole different platform. Time will tell - if Shield sales start to plummet then it's time for S&W to make a decision.
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Old 05-24-2018, 11:07 AM
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Actually, the comparison in this photo is an 8+1 Shield behind a 12+1 P365.

I own many S&W firearms and am a big fan. I also own a few (much fewer) non-Smiths because they provide something different. If Smith introduces something similar to the P365, I'm likely to buy it. Meanwhile, the Sig satisfies a need for me. So far, I haven't had any hiccups.

Since the Sig arrived, I've purchased three more Smiths.
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Old 05-24-2018, 11:09 AM
ColbyBruce ColbyBruce is offline
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Sig Sauer. Sig=So Itís Good? Sauer=The taste in your mouth when you waited forever and laid out $500.00+ for a gun claiming to be reliable enough to make it to Hell and back; but yourís has issues and has to go back to the factory. The P250, Mosquito, P320 models are three examples. S&W has little to fear at this time.

I like Sigs and own several but the company needs to stop relying on the consumer to discover flaws in the new products.
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Old 05-24-2018, 11:16 AM
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Well the mag is under patent & IMO until S&W sells ALL the existing shields.
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Old 05-24-2018, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobzGuns View Post
... ... ...
An earlier thread of the same topic has been moved to the Other Brands Sub-Forum. ... ... ...
Just one other? I lost count, but the last time I checked, there were less than ten topic threads, but definitely more than five topic threads, for the Sig P365 in this forum. Maybe some of the more obvious candidates were mercifully merged.

Well, anyway, I had occasion to take a gander at this cute little round-packed nine, and below is my repeated content indicating the key salient feature that struck me:

<repeated content> It looks like whatever space the grip width takes up is used to hold rounds, instead of to hold useless wasted empty space. Little to no wasted space in the grip width. Nice. Very. </end repeated content>

Of course, whoever applies this new revolutionary exciting concept (no useless wasted empty space in the grip width) to a tiny double stack .40 or 10mm will have my attention.
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Old 05-24-2018, 12:17 PM
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Sig-Sauer has had problems with the P365, and is working through them now. I suspect they will get things right. This sort of "let the customer beta test our new gun" has happened to other manufacturers. S&W, which is my go-to company, has had some early teething problems with the Shield 380 EZ, regarding the self-moving safety.

The internet magnifies these problems, and everybody chatters about them, but that's good -- it makes the manufacturers move quickly to solve them, whether by "recall" or "voluntary return."

The P365 looks like a nice-sized package and the extra rounds are great. Reliability is King, though, in judging small self-defense guns. The P325 has to earn people's confidence, which it probably will in time. My carry gun, when that seems warranted, is a 642. Only five rounds, but more reliable than any small pocket semi. Is the P365 a threat to the Shield? Yes, in the long run, it could be - once Sig gets the problems solved and production ramped up. It would be wise for S&W to be working on a Shield 3.0, maybe using the space in the grip more efficiently and thus having an extra two rounds. But I wouldn't buy one unless I heard its reliability - based on long-term testing - is better than anything else in the small semi-auto segment.
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Old 05-31-2018, 01:37 PM
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New review out today on the SIG P365...
now it's showing signs of primer swipe...

Gun Review Follow-Up: Another Look at the SIG P365 - The Truth About Guns
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Old 05-31-2018, 01:46 PM
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10-12 rounds sounds appealing but a gun smaller than a G43 is not, that's why I carry the Shield with the larger magazine. I will wait until Sig works out all the issues and until I can get the P365 with the larger 12 round magazine in my hand to evaluate it.
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Old 05-31-2018, 05:23 PM
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You want smith to make a pistol with that many problems?
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Old 06-01-2018, 09:18 AM
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Of all my semi-auto pistols, the Shield has been truly problem-free.

I'm not going to mess with a good thing.
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Old 06-01-2018, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike, SC Hunter View Post
So true. Sig's little pistol is no big deal. Other than people going ga-ga over 2 extra rounds. If you want the extra rounds in the Shield get the magazine innards from Mag-guts. Besides the 365 is an ugly pistol.


Itís 4 extra rounds, not 2.


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Old 06-01-2018, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fallhunter View Post
When, if ever, do you folks think Smith & Wesson, (or Glock) will come out with an answer to the Sig P365? Would love to see a Shield re-worked to be a double stack and only 1.05" wide. I would buy that.

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Hopefully soon, but probably years. The size to round count is truest amazing with the 365.


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Old 06-01-2018, 10:22 AM
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Others have said it but there is no reason for S&W to copy a pistol that was made to copy the Shield... especially at 2x the price. The CCW craze has produced enough models from all manufacturers to satisfy the demand.
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Old 06-01-2018, 03:49 PM
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I'm not very good with my crystal ball. But I just got an ad from Academy, the Shield M2 is $50 off, at $379.99 now.

I didn't upgrade to M2, but I do get visions of Shield M2, Shield EZ, and Sig P365 morphing into Shield M3.
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Old 06-01-2018, 06:27 PM
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I Think that Smith is already working somewhat that way. The 2.0 in 3.6” 9c with 15+1. If they come out with shorter grip frame similar to the 1.0 compact, they would have almost a P365 only a wider double stack and probably 12+1 without any re-design and proven track record.

Personally a grip length shorter than the shield with stock 8 roind mag is just uncomfortable for me to shoot. So I personally have no interest in any smaller. This is exactly why I’m droolomg over the 2.0 9C in 3.6”. Gives me pretty much the most capacity in the smallest package I have interest to shoot. Please do not mention the G19 or G26, I have hated every Glock I have ever held! Good gun, but they just dont work for me personally.
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Old 06-01-2018, 06:49 PM
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I won’t cc ANY semi auto. I’ll stick with my S&W Airweight snubby M638.
No failures to feed, no failures to eject, reasonable power & 5 ready to go.

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Old 06-01-2018, 07:16 PM
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I have a G26 and a Shield (wife's CCW). 365 is nice, but late to the game for us. I enjoy shooting a wide variety of firearms but shy away from a lot of different CCWs.
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Old 06-01-2018, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkcavalier View Post
I have a G26 and a Shield (wife's CCW). 365 is nice, but late to the game for us.
Just the opposite for us... The Shield is my EDC and a G26 is my Wife's EDC.
Basically, my Wife shoots her G26 better and I shoot the Shield better than the G26 (or my G19) and we feel carrying what you shoot best is the Key, rather than what Might conceal easier.

Until they get all the bugs worked out, the thought of the 365 being a 'game changer' is pretty much a moot point.

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Old 06-02-2018, 11:12 PM
Mike, SC Hunter Mike, SC Hunter is offline
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Itís 4 extra rounds, not 2.


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Still not a big deal.....If you need that many rounds........Use a shotgun.
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Old 06-03-2018, 07:08 AM
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I Think that Smith is already working somewhat that way. The 2.0 in 3.6Ē 9c with 15+1. If they come out with shorter grip frame similar to the 1.0 compact, they would have almost a P365 only a wider double stack and probably 12+1 without any re-design and proven track record.

Personally a grip length shorter than the shield with stock 8 roind mag is just uncomfortable for me to shoot. So I personally have no interest in any smaller. This is exactly why Iím droolomg over the 2.0 9C in 3.6Ē. Gives me pretty much the most capacity in the smallest package I have interest to shoot. Please do not mention the G19 or G26, I have hated every Glock I have ever held! Good gun, but they just dont work for me personally.
Small is great ...but...a old J frame grip is to small for me
Too small...you can get too small.
The 2.0 in 3.6Ē 9c with 15+1 is for me a perfect blend of small grip.. capacity..barrel length.
Sure one could get smaller but like cell phones the race to get smaller can get foolish to the point of absurd .
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Old 06-03-2018, 07:25 AM
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Sig Sauer. Sig=So Itís Good? Sauer=The taste in your mouth w.....

I like Sigs and own several but the company needs to stop relying on the consumer to discover flaws in the new products.
That's what happens when a company switches from German manufacturing to U.S. manufacturing, I guess.
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Old 06-03-2018, 09:28 AM
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I hope S&W does come out with something similar. Who wouldn't want a Shield with higher capacity?

I've owned several Sigs, mine have run great, I think they can resolve the initial issues with the 365.
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Old 06-03-2018, 10:01 AM
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Still not a big deal.....If you need that many rounds........Use a shotgun.


Itís a huge deal for round count. And try can conceal carrying a shotgun How long until S&amp;W has an answer to the Sig P365?How long until S&amp;W has an answer to the Sig P365?How long until S&amp;W has an answer to the Sig P365?How long until S&amp;W has an answer to the Sig P365?


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Old 06-03-2018, 10:12 AM
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Still not a big deal.....If you need that many rounds........Use a shotgun.
A shotgun???
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Old 06-03-2018, 10:42 AM
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Itís a huge deal for round count. And try can conceal carrying a shotgun How long until S&amp;W has an answer to the Sig P365?How long until S&amp;W has an answer to the Sig P365?How long until S&amp;W has an answer to the Sig P365?How long until S&amp;W has an answer to the Sig P365?
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Old 06-03-2018, 11:02 AM
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You don't think you could concealed carry this shotgun?
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  #31  
Old 06-03-2018, 11:13 AM
Flyingfool Flyingfool is offline
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How long until S&amp;W has an answer to the Sig P365? How long until S&amp;W has an answer to the Sig P365? How long until S&amp;W has an answer to the Sig P365? How long until S&amp;W has an answer to the Sig P365? How long until S&amp;W has an answer to the Sig P365?  
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Originally Posted by silversnake View Post
I hope S&W does come out with something similar. Who wouldn't want a Shield with higher capacity?

I've owned several Sigs, mine have run great, I think they can resolve the initial issues with the 365.
There are aftermarket vendors (magguts) that can add two rounds making the shield an 9+1 and 10+1.

Sure it is not P365 capacity. But it is a small investment and added capacity to a known reliable shield. All reports are great for the reliability of the magguts mags.
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  #32  
Old 06-03-2018, 11:54 AM
old pipefitter old pipefitter is offline
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I've been a Smith and Wesson owner since the late 70's. But when a better mouse trap (Sig P365) comes along I try it. And the 365 is that. I've traded off my Shields. First I had the regular 9mm and the .45 then moved up to the Ported models of both. There gone also. The 365 is that nice, small package, very controllable to shoot which is surprising. Whats not to like about 10 or 12 rounds of 9mm. And I can shoot Fed Aluminum cased 9mm. I also own a Rohrbaugh 9mm. Its even smaller than the P365 but its quite a handful to shoot. And at $550 its not 2 times the price of a Shield.

Last edited by old pipefitter; 06-03-2018 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 06-03-2018, 12:37 PM
NCW Ray NCW Ray is offline
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P365 capacity is nice....but imho the Shield is still way ahead since they offer it in 9mm/40/45. Until Sig offers the P365 in all of those calibers, I have no interest in it at all.
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Old 06-03-2018, 12:39 PM
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Too many documented problems with the P365! I'll stay with my tried and true Shield 9mm. I have put over 3,200 rds through mine without an issue!
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Old 06-03-2018, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by old pipefitter View Post
I've been a Smith and Wesson owner since the late 70's. But when a better mouse trap (Sig P365) comes along I try it.
Better for who? I don't know how we could consider it as "better," the 365 has a very small track record, it's been plagued with problems from the start, (they had to stop production) and this review of the newly "updgraded" model shows issues with primer swipe:

Gun Review Follow-Up: Another Look at the SIG P365 - The Truth About Guns

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Originally Posted by old pipefitter View Post
And at $550 its not 2 times the price of a Shield.
Actually, after rebate many of us got our Shields for around $250, so if you paid $550 the Sig would be MORE than 2 times the price. If it works for you, great, but this is not what I consider as "better."
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Old 06-03-2018, 02:38 PM
cowboy4evr cowboy4evr is offline
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I watched the "Military Arms Channel " review of the Sig P365 . He had primer swipe on all rounds fired . At 900 rounds , the trigger spring broke . Not something that would inspire confidence to buy and trust . I'm a revolver guy " through and through " but I do have 3 sigs and all have been very trouble free . If I was going to buy a small 9mm , it probably would be the HK VP 9 SK .
I gave my son an HK VP 9 SK for his birthday (It's what he had wanted for some time ) . I watched him shoot 700 rounds in 3.5 days and never a glitch or hiccup and the accuracy was superb . That was with factory loads and my hand loads . That is a real quality piece , worth the price . It hold 10 rounds , Regards, Paul

Last edited by cowboy4evr; 06-03-2018 at 02:41 PM.
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  #37  
Old 06-03-2018, 10:47 PM
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Even the second gen Sig 365 is having issues. One is the frame is to small and people are pushing up on the slide lock with a normal combat grip. NOT something you want to happen in a stressful situation!

The S&W Shield has better ergonomics, better looks, and from what I have seen shoots tighter groups.

You can get 10 round mags for the Shield but 8 plus one is good enough for me with a 8 round backup. You should ALWAYS carry a extra mag!!
That gives you 17 rounds without larger mags.
The above post give ample examples of other problems.

Be SAFE and shoot often!

Last edited by Execpro; 06-03-2018 at 10:50 PM.
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  #38  
Old 06-03-2018, 11:28 PM
waffles waffles is offline
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I will not carry a Sig 365 with the issues they're having now, which is a shame because the size of the gun to capacity is fantastic. I briefly owned a shield and sold it as the Glock 43 is better in just about every way except for the price (though thankfully it's coming down now).

The difference between the shield and the 365 (leaving aside reliability) is as night and day as would be the difference between your shield and a Glock 17. It's a seriously impressive achievement if Sig can get it to work.
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  #39  
Old 06-04-2018, 05:11 AM
changemyoil66 changemyoil66 is offline
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How about 9c? 12rd mags.

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  #40  
Old 06-04-2018, 01:39 PM
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From what understand, primer swipe is not unusual with small automatics. The RSA on my Shield 45 broke at 600 rounds. So, yeah, **** happens.
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  #41  
Old 06-05-2018, 01:59 AM
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Even if they get the bugs worked out of the P365, today's Sig scrapes the bottom of the barrel by having their internals made in India. I work with a lot of metal and all of the India made metal is hard to work with, hard to weld and parts made from it have catastrophic failures and/or wear out 4 times faster. I don't know if I could trust it on that fact alone. Also their profit margin must be HUGE! I mean polymer guns are already cheap to produce, but add in India made steel components and you have a company that is more focused on saving money than making a quality product.
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Old 06-10-2018, 04:33 AM
Buckeye63 Buckeye63 is offline
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I feel Ruger will be coming out with a LC9S double stack in the near future
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  #43  
Old 06-10-2018, 11:08 AM
Flyingfool Flyingfool is offline
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Stated above:

“I briefly owned a shield and sold it as the Glock 43 is better in just about every way... ”

Exactly how is the G43 better? It holds one less round (2 reall), the grip is modeled after a carved out piece of a 2x4, and feels like a brick and has the wrong grip angle.

Yep “better” in every way...Not!

Better for you perhaps, but absolutely worse for me in every way, including price!
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Old 06-10-2018, 12:14 PM
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Mike-SCHunter is correct. The Sig comes with a 10 round mag. For $38 plus tax you can get a 12 round mag for the Sig. that brings the price to around $450.
Another issue as I posted above besides the mechanical ones,is people with large hands that use the “Combat grip” are inadvertently engaging the slide stop. I DON’T want to be concerned about my grip in a self defense situation!
The double stack mag is a winner, but the gun is just too small.

Everyone to their own tast. That why so many car models exist.

For me the Shield pistol is a perfect balance of size,function and capacity. I don’t think S&W has anything to worry about.

Stay SAFE and shoot often!

Last edited by Execpro; 06-10-2018 at 12:20 PM.
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  #45  
Old 06-10-2018, 12:54 PM
jhnttrpp jhnttrpp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by changemyoil66 View Post
How about 9c? 12rd mags.

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17.8 ozs vs 24.7 ozs. I think that may be a lot. 5.8 vs 6.7 over all length. It all depends on what the purpose you need it for.
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  #46  
Old 06-13-2018, 06:04 AM
rifmon rifmon is offline
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I loved SIG handguns when their line-up consisted of the 220, 226, 228, 225, 230 and 239. When you bought one of these, there were no beta-testers. They just worked!

I like my Shield. It works and handles like a larger handgun.
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  #47  
Old 06-13-2018, 06:12 AM
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My Shield has had enough capacity to handle every gunfight i've been in so far, matter of fact so has my 442, just say'in.........
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Old 06-13-2018, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmiela View Post
Hum, 2 million shields sold, when the 365 gets to 100k maybe S&W should start thinking about it. Oh and after Sig fixes the out of battery condition and the other items I have seen maybe.


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Similarly, I read Glock has sold over 3 million 43s. I would say neither will be in a rush to change anything. The Sig is a *** anyway.
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Old 06-18-2018, 08:53 PM
curlysir curlysir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SATX View Post
From what understand, primer swipe is not unusual with small automatics. The RSA on my Shield 45 broke at 600 rounds. So, yeah, **** happens.
I own a Shield 9mm and a Sig P365. They both have essentially identical "Primer Swipe". I doubt that I or anyone else could tell which gun they were fired from if they were mixed together.

Last edited by curlysir; 06-18-2018 at 08:56 PM.
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Old 06-18-2018, 09:39 PM
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Ok look, I am the biggest Smith fan that there is. But for all of you guys saying the 365 is no big deal and people are going crazy for 2 extra rounds, then you are ignoring some obvious selling points. The 365 is MUCH smaller than the shield and in fact only comes close when the 12 round magazine is inserted. Giving you 13 versus 9. So two extra rounds you say?

Yes, it's a new model that is working out some quirks. Yes, the Shield is a proven winner in the industry. But to ignore what the 365 offers and dismiss the ways that it hands down beats the shield is ridiculous.

This Smith fan has one on order, proudly. NOT a shield.
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