BG380 - to chamber a round or not to chamber a round, that is the question

[Black Rose]

Tell me where i am wrong.

i normally carry my S&W 642 38 special, i carry it with all chambers loaded, the gun has an internal hammer, double action, with a long and heavy trigger pull, i have confidence that this gun will only fire a round if i press the trigger, i believe that the gun can not fire if dropped.

i want to carry my S&W BG380, but i want a round in the chamber, i know that it also has a double action long and heavy trigger pull, i believe that if a round is in the chamber that its just like my revolver, the gun is not cocked by pulling the slide back and chambering a round and that it will not fire unless i pull that trigger.

aside from the fact that one is a revolver the other is a semi-auto, am i wrong in the fact that they both are identical in the fact that neither can fire by being dropped, etc. and that it takes a trigger pull to fire them.

Tell me what i am missing?

[AlHunt]

Let's just forget I posted here at all ... I've gotten this wrong 6 ways from Sunday ...

[murphydog]

I don't think you are missing anything. Train and be safe!

[Injunbro]

You're not missing anything. A gun that isn't loaded ready to go isn't going to do you any good if you need it.

[Dougaz]

"Better to have it and not need it, than needing it and not having it"

[southchatham]

It's a double action gun just like your revolver. Carry with a round in the chamber.

[Black Rose]

i just checked the Wikipedia on the BG380, this pistol is not like the others in the M&P lineup, the BG380 is hammer fired, the others in the lineup are striker fired, and yes the striker fired are partially cocked with the chambering of the round, the hammer on the BG380 does not move when a round is chambered, thus, its a revolver........please prove me wrong or right, i don't feel comfortable carrying a gun with a round chambered with the gun fully or partially cocked. anytime a machine has any stored mechanical energy and is held back by a mechanical device there is a possibility for it to fire. a revolver has NO stored mechanical energy in its fully chambered state, the ONLY way it can fire is through a trigger pull.

[Doug M.]

The pistol is designed to be carried with one in the chamber. If you are not confident with the pistol or yourself when it is carried that way, it is not the pistol for you. This presumes you are carrying it in a holster, especially if pocket carrying. I carry a Glock 33 almost all day, almost every day. It has one in the chamber, and is carried in a holster. I have not the slightest concern about inherent safety problems. I carry other pistols (Shield, Glocks) for other purposes, not in a pocket holster, but in a holster. That's how I was trained, and I know of no competent ethical instructor who would train any other method.

[Black Rose]

Doug,

i agree with you, i have a holster for it, i know the gun is reliable enough for my CCW, everything about it screams revolver, which i feel comfortable with. i am an engineer, i worked my entire life with machines, any machine that has stored energy has the potential to release that energy at any time (i have seen machines start by themselves because of a component failure), even though there are mechanical locks preventing it. a revolver has "0" stored energy, my question is not my confidence or training, it is only on design. i have not been able to find any drawings of this gun, but from what i can see on its design it is identical to a revolver.....just picking yours and others brains to verify what i believe just in case i missed something.

[LCC]

Not comfortable pocket carrying striker fired semi's, I do pocket carry a hammer fired DAO semi, an upgraded Ruger LCP Gen 1, and after handling both only chose it over the BG380 due to it's reputation as being a tad more more reliable as the triggers are very similar
The safest pocket holster I have found for pocket carry is the Vedder Pocket Locker. It 'clicks' into place, covering the trigger, yet is drawn easily with just a push of the thumb on the inside holster edge which has a molded 'shelf' for just that.
And being a J-frame rookie, am more accurate with my LCP than my 642, and having 8 on tap with a fast reload has made it my most carried EDC.
Get a good holster, practice, you will become comfortable with it.

[southerncomfort]

OP you astutely noted the fact the hammer is uncocked until you pull the trigger...true double action. Safe to carry with a round chambered, assuming you carry in a proper holster that covers the trigger guard.

[Bourget117]

Originally Posted by Black Rose

Tell me where i am wrong.

i normally carry my S&W 642 38 special, i carry it with all chambers loaded, the gun has an internal hammer, double action, with a long and heavy trigger pull, i have confidence that this gun will only fire a round if i press the trigger, i believe that the gun can not fire if dropped.

i want to carry my S&W BG380, but i want a round in the chamber, i know that it also has a double action long and heavy trigger pull, i believe that if a round is in the chamber that its just like my revolver, the gun is not cocked by pulling the slide back and chambering a round and that it will not fire unless i pull that trigger.

aside from the fact that one is a revolver the other is a semi-auto, am i wrong in the fact that they both are identical in the fact that neither can fire by being dropped, etc. and that it takes a trigger pull to fire them.

Tell me what i am missing?

There should be zero stored energy. A bodyguard 380 is basically a revolver that takes magazines. It has a hammer not a striker that only fully moves when you pull the trigger hard. It’s the same as your j frame. Just that the hammer is recessed instead of fully enclosed, but it works the same.
If your fine with carrying the 642 with all five rounds in it, then it’s the same with carry the bodyguard with a full mag and one In the chamber.

It really makes no sense to carry without one in the pipe. You’ll never pull the gun, rack it, aim and fire quick enough. Things happen very quickly and it’s easy to fumble with it under stress.

[ralph7]

Originally Posted by Black Rose

i just checked the Wikipedia on the BG380, this pistol is not like the others in the M&P lineup, the BG380 is hammer fired, the others in the lineup are striker fired, and yes the striker fired are partially cocked with the chambering of the round, the hammer on the BG380 does not move when a round is chambered, thus, its a revolver........please prove me wrong or right,
i don't feel comfortable carrying a gun with a round chambered with the gun fully or partially cocked. anytime a machine has any stored mechanical energy and is held back by a mechanical device there is a possibility for it to fire. a revolver has NO stored mechanical energy in its fully chambered state, the ONLY way it can fire is through a trigger pull.

What makes you think this??
It is the same as your revolver, no stored energy.

[kbm6893]

I have a BG380 and the hammer is fully at rest until the trigger is pulled. I do own several striker fired guns and I admit I am more comfortable with hammer fired because strikers are partially cocked.

That being said, I’m not sure if a partially cocked striker would have enough energy to set off a primer anyway.

I wish there was a reliable hammer fired 9MM in the same Size weight class as a Sig 365. I’d buy it in a second. I do carry my BG380 but it’s summer carry only. No sense carrying such a tiny gun when a larger one can be more easily concealed in cooler months.

My own issue with carrying any semi auto iis since my kids got older, old enough to pull a trigger but still young enough to do something dumb, I don’t like leaving a round chambered in my carry gun when it’s not in my person, including when I put it in the safe. So I worry about bullet setback from repeated chambering of the rounds. I do rotate them, though.

[Sevens]

Black Rose, where I do understand and respect your position and how you have arrived at your position, I’ll argue that your position itself is flawed and has been proven to be a non-issue literally millions of times when it comes to firearms.

Let’s start with the bulk of all uniformed officers who are carrying partially cocked striker fired handguns every minute they are on duty. We could look at -any- repeating shotgun on the market outside of a single/double barrel with external hammer(s) and we can look at any bolt action or semiautomatic rifle which obviously includes basically every soldier over the last 120 years.

It’s much like the argument that you would never buy a car that has computerized fuel injection or engine management because you’ve seen electronic circuits fail. I’m saying that yes, circuits can and do fail, but by and large if you truly stick to the numbers, the numbers do not lie.

The mechanical failure of partially cocked striker fired handguns is so small that statistically speaking, in mathematical terms, it doesn’t exist.

You’ve got a better chance of a tree limb falling on your head than you do of experiencing a mechanical failure leading to a true “unintended discharge” with a partially cocked striker fired modern handgun.

[southchatham]

Originally Posted by LCC

Not comfortable pocket carrying striker fired semi's, I do pocket carry a hammer fired DAO semi, an upgraded Ruger LCP Gen 1, and after handling both only chose it over the BG380 due to it's reputation as being a tad more more reliable as the triggers are very similar
The safest pocket holster I have found for pocket carry is the Vedder Pocket Locker. It 'clicks' into place, covering the trigger, yet is drawn easily with just a push of the thumb on the inside holster edge which has a molded 'shelf' for just that.
And being a J-frame rookie, am more accurate with my LCP than my 642, and having 8 on tap with a fast reload has made it my most carried EDC.
Get a good holster, practice, you will become comfortable with it.

LCP trigger is partially cocked. That's why it's so light compared to the BG380.

For OP, BG380 is a double action only. Proof that it is in no way pre cocked is that you can just pull the trigger again and again and again without racking the slide.

It's why some of us choose the BG380.

[mikerjf]

<<I wish there was a reliable hammer fired 9MM in the same Size weight class as a Sig 365.>>

SCCY CPX2?

[gen3guy]

If you know your weapon, understand how to use it, and practice, you will have the self-confidence to carry any way you see fit.

[LVSteve]

To the OP, you and your gun are safe. The BG380 is just a square shaped revolver.

Originally Posted by kbm6893

I wish there was a reliable hammer fired 9MM in the same Size weight class as a Sig 365.

Sig P250 subcompact or a SCCY CPX-2 are about as close as you can get. Both are true DAO guns. We have a P250SC in 380, it's a super little gun.

[Mister X]

The BG .380 is indeed DAO and a safe firearm to carry with a round in the chamber, but it’s not just like revolver.

With a revolver, I can easily see if it’s loaded or not, I can pop out the cylinder, work the ejector rod, load and unload it as many times as I want with no negative consequences to the rounds themselves. The cylinder has to rotate before a round is fired, so in pretty much any carry method, there is a great deal of friction against that cylinder that would have to be overcome for a round to be unintentionally discharged.

The same cannot be said for any autoloader and some people who will carry a loaded revolver will just never be comfortable carrying an auto with a round in the chamber regardless if it’s truly DAO or not.

A gun with an empty chamber is much better than nothing if that’s all you’ll carry, but a loaded revolver is better than carrying an auto with an empty chamber.

[kbm6893]

Originally Posted by LVSteve

To the OP, you and your gun are safe. The BG380 is just a square shaped revolver.



Sig P250 subcompact or a SCCY CPX-2 are about as close as you can get. Both are true DAO guns. We have a P250SC in 380, it's a super little gun.

The 250 SC is 6 ounces heavier than the Shield. The 365 weighs less than the Shield and is smaller. My Ruger LC9-S is virtually identical to the 365 in size and weight. Just carries less rounds.

[swsig]

Originally Posted by mikerjf

<<I wish there was a reliable hammer fired 9MM in the same Size weight class as a Sig 365.>>

SCCY CPX2?

The closest may be the Heckler & Koch USP compact. It's about the same size as the M&P 2.0 subcompact. It's available as a DA/SA or a DAO, with either 10- or 13-round magazines. It's not cheap, however, at around $1,100 msrp. Here's a link: USP - COMPACT - Heckler & Koch

[HOUSTON RICK]

What are you going to the bad guy, "Wait a second while I rack my slide"?

[Doug M.]

Training and education will solve this dilemma for you. What you are describing is a non-issue.

[hyena]

Black Rose - I see you're pretty new here, so welcome to the forum. It's a great place to acquire knowledge. And, unfortunately like everywhere on the internet you'll also get "talked down to" by a few.

I'm not a gunsmith, so take this for what it's worth. 99% of my carry is with the same two guns you carry - 642 and BG380. I go with the BG in my pocket when I'm wearing a tucked in shirt and jean pockets that are a snug fit for the 642.

At any rate, it is my belief our Bodyguards have zero stored energy in the firing mechanism when there's a round in the chamber. They are neither fully or partially cocked. Same as the 642. As southchatham said above, it's why some of us chose the BG. I also use the thumb safety on mine, since it's second nature to swipe it off when I draw, even though I think it's somewhat superfluous.

[ISCS Yoda]

i don't feel comfortable carrying a gun with a round chambered with the gun fully or partially cocked. anytime a machine has any stored mechanical energy and is held back by a mechanical device there is a possibility for it to fire. a revolver has NO stored mechanical energy in its fully chambered state, the ONLY way it can fire is through a trigger pull.

From a mechanical engineering standpoint one can argue that your science is correct. From a practical standpoint, one should argue that you're simply and completely incorrect but you don't understand the systems.

As a personal matter, I never carry a gun that doesn't have a round in the chamber or all cylinders filled. Double action revolvers, traditional double action pistols, or striker fired pistols (I admit that I have one - but just one - and I don't carry single action pistols but that's a different thread). Unless you think spending a lifetime practicing what are commonly called Israeli speed drills (those guys are fast) you simply never want to have to rack your slide when you are forced to pull your pistol for self defense.

Practically speaking, all of these guns are designed to survive being dropped without going off. In a perfect world, they WILL NOT go off if dropped. The world is not perfect so there are no guarantees but, seriously, carry the gun with a round in the chamber or stick to revolvers.

[Bourget117]

Originally Posted by mikerjf

<<I wish there was a reliable hammer fired 9MM in the same Size weight class as a Sig 365.>>

SCCY CPX2?

As for other double action pistols other than the BG 380, I also have a Sig P239 DAO. it’s definitely heavier than the SCCY or Sig 365 but it’s reliable and a true double action only just like my Bodyguard.

[oldiegoldie]

Originally Posted by kbm6893

I have a BG380 and the hammer is fully at rest until the trigger is pulled. I do own several striker fired guns and I admit I am more comfortable with hammer fired because strikers are partially cocked.

That being said, I’m not sure if a partially cocked striker would have enough energy to set off a primer anyway.

I wish there was a reliable hammer fired 9MM in the same Size weight class as a Sig 365. I’d buy it in a second. I do carry my BG380 but it’s summer carry only. No sense carrying such a tiny gun when a larger one can be more easily concealed in cooler months.

My own issue with carrying any semi auto iis since my kids got older, old enough to pull a trigger but still young enough to do something dumb, I don’t like leaving a round chambered in my carry gun when it’s not in my person, including when I put it in the safe. So I worry about bullet setback from repeated chambering of the rounds. I do rotate them, though.

had to double check your "handle"...thought i had posted that in my sleep. i've been looking for a DAO 9mm in P365 size.. the SCCY is a little chubbier than the P365, but it seems reliable and is DAO. it's not quite the answer. Sig is the logical company to design and sell the DAO version of P365, but i have little faith they see enough demand to pursue the DAO. i keep hoping.

[kbm6893]

Originally Posted by oldiegoldie

had to double check your "handle"...thought i had posted that in my sleep. i've been looking for a DAO 9mm in P365 size.. the SCCY is a little chubbier than the P365, but it seems reliable and is DAO. it's not quite the answer. Sig is the logical company to design and sell the DAO version of P365, but i have little faith they see enough demand to pursue the DAO. i keep hoping.

If you want a DAO 9MM, the original Ruger LC9 is the answer. Long double action pull. Manual safety. Mag disconnect (but you can remove that). Ruger discontinued it when the LC9S came out. Used you can find them for like $250. Virtually same size and weight as the 365.

[southchatham]

Originally Posted by kbm6893

If you want a DAO 9MM, the original Ruger LC9 is the answer. Long double action pull. Manual safety. Mag disconnect (but you can remove that). Ruger discontinued it when the LC9S came out. Used you can find them for like $250. Virtually same size and weight as the 365.

That LC9 trigger is partially cocked with no double strike.

[kbm6893]

Originally Posted by southchatham

That LC9 trigger is partially cocked with no double strike.

I know. So are the DAO S&W 3rd gen guns like the 3953 and 5946. But a full trigger pill is required to fire the round. No way possible can whatever little energy that might be stored in that partial cock be enough to set the primer off. I can’t even imagine the firing pin reaching the primer, much less setting it off. Not to mention any other firing pin blocks they might exist to prevent it. I’m not a gunsmith.

And the LC9 is nearly identical in size and weight of the 365. If someone is looking for a non striker 9MM in the size and weight class of the 365 the LC9 is the only answer that I’m aware of. And the OP didn’t mention wanting second strike capability.

[oldiegoldie]

the Naroh N1 is also a DAO, partially cocked. it has a better trigger than the LC9 [my opinion only] and is a P365 look alike. i have several of them and the LC9. Naroh just recently shut down production of the N1 after only 1 year. was hoping they would survive, but the P365 won too many converts.

[Mario777]

Originally Posted by mikerjf

<<I wish there was a reliable hammer fired 9MM in the same Size weight class as a Sig 365.>>

SCCY CPX2?

MP Shield 9mm EZ has an internal hammer.

[kbm6893]

Originally Posted by Mario777

MP Shield 9mm EZ has an internal hammer.

Way bigger than the others. I have an EZ and like it, but totally different size and weight class to even the original Shield, which is also bigger than the 365.