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Old 07-14-2018, 08:16 AM
NewToGuns17 NewToGuns17 is offline
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Default Ammo makes ripped holes?

Hey guys. I will preface this by saying before I got into handguns I shot A LOT of air rifle. I understand just from that that different ammo shape, weight and brand play a part in both repeatability and penetration. Now I'm not worried about the latter for paper punching but the former I am. I shoot both the 9mm shield 1.0 and a 2.0 4.25" 9mm as well. I've been shooting Winchester white box from Walmart as it's readily available. After sitting my grandfather's 45 long I was noticing it punched paper like a wadcutter.

Is 9mm just prone to making messy holes? I've also noticed with the same hold I will get a good group and then a few wander for a while and then back on to the same spot on the target. Any ideas? So I need a heavier bullet?
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Old 07-14-2018, 08:55 AM
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I thought .38 special 130 gr was key holing and RO said it was the thin paper targets with no backing .
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Old 07-14-2018, 09:01 AM
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Thin paper targets without substantial backing will tear and rip. Round-nose (and soft-point or hollow-point with round-nose general shape) ammo will punch through with radial tears around a jagged entry point.

Nothing to be concerned about.
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Old 07-14-2018, 09:12 AM
NewToGuns17 NewToGuns17 is offline
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Makes sense. How about accuracy? Do these guns do better with heavier ammo or?
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Old 07-14-2018, 09:15 AM
WR Moore WR Moore is online now
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About the wandering/varying groups-your concentration is wandering. Plus, WWB is price point ammo and not noted for outstanding quality.

I don't think you need a heavier bullet. More dry fire and a better grade of ammunition.
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Old 07-14-2018, 10:07 AM
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^^^^^^^
What WR said. White box ammo is their value line of ammo, not bad range ammo but not known for consistent accuracy. Try 124 gr. you might see a little difference. I really wouldn't be too concerned though.
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Old 07-14-2018, 10:59 AM
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Push a pointed pencil through a piece of paper. Note the ragged hole. Now use a hole punch. See how clean it is.

Round nose FMJs and many HPs are more like the pencil. Some HPs, flat nose FMJs, Wadcutters and Semi Wadcutters are more like the hole punch.
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Old 07-14-2018, 12:28 PM
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"I've also noticed with the same hold I will get a good group and then a few wander for a while and then back on to the same spot on the target. Any ideas?"


The usual suspects for this symptom are
1. changing grip pressure during the string, or changing the ratio of pressure between strong and weak hand. Ideally, the weak hand should be 70% of the total grip pressure
2. starting to look at the group and think about the score. shoot one shot at a time, the same every time, and focus on that front sight
3. bad bullets
4. grossly erratic powder charges
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Old 07-14-2018, 05:16 PM
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That is normally and as long as the ammo shoots accurately enough I would not worry about it.

But having said that one of the reasons I prefer 147 grain Speer Lawman is that it makes a cleaner hole. It is due to the flat tip, not the weight. I sometimes shoot at the same target twice using the 147 grain ammo and ammo with a round nose bullet. You can tell which holes were from the 147 magazine by the clean holes.
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Old 07-14-2018, 07:29 PM
NewToGuns17 NewToGuns17 is offline
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Where do you all but your ammo? Wwb for 200 rounds here is $38. Anywhere close to that online for similar but better rounds?
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Old 07-14-2018, 08:23 PM
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Put a piece of plywood behind the target and you will see round holes! Use Wad Cutter ammo! That's what it was designed for to make clean round holes.
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Old 07-15-2018, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToGuns17 View Post
Where do you all but your ammo? Wwb for 200 rounds here is $38. Anywhere close to that online for similar but better rounds?
sgammo.com

The Speer 147 grain I mentioned is $189/1000. Shipping to GA is about $15 but there is no sales tax.

There are lots of other places to buy online but prices tend to be pretty similar and I have done enough business with sgammo that I keep going back instead of trying a different vendor that is a couple of percent cheaper. Most of the ones that have been around for at least a few years are reputable and honest but I would rather stick with one I know.
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:58 AM
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Interesting and news to me. I've been shooting for over 60 yrs and never encountered this issue. Explanations make sense to me but I've always shot with a paper target with a backing of some sort.

When the OP mentioned jagged holes, my first thought was a new Shield should not be keyholing and was he using very light powder charges in reloaded ammo with a heavy for caliber slug, thus not stabilizing the slug.

Always good to learn new things. Good Sunday to all. Don
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Old 07-15-2018, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired Cop View Post
Put a piece of plywood behind the target and you will see round holes! Use Wad Cutter ammo! That's what it was designed for to make clean round holes.
Wad cutter is unlikely to feed in a modern semi auto and why use it? Wad cutters are for competition in revolvers. Don
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Old 07-15-2018, 11:27 AM
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Default PICS PLEASE.

Most likely as stated above. Tumbling/keyholing is a small/unlikely possibility.
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Old 07-15-2018, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbtrucker View Post
I thought .38 special 130 gr was key holing and RO said it was the thin paper targets with no backing .
This post here states .38 special! Wad cutters are .38 ?????????
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Old 07-15-2018, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonD View Post
Wad cutter is unlikely to feed in a modern semi auto and why use it? Wad cutters are for competition in revolvers. Don
I guess my 9mm, 40, 45 semi's never got the message. ALL feed/function fine & are accurate. WHY use them? Aside from the 3 reasons just stated, there's the price.
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Old 07-15-2018, 06:28 PM
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There's a slew of online ammo sources: ammuniutiontogo, ammoman, Grafs, Midway, Streichers Police Supply and the list goes on.

I expect lots of us also load our own practice ammo. I think my 9mm cost is about $14/100 recycling my brass.

Last edited by WR Moore; 07-15-2018 at 06:31 PM.
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Old 07-15-2018, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToGuns17 View Post
Where do you all but your ammo? Wwb for 200 rounds here is $38. Anywhere close to that online for similar but better rounds?
In stock ammo, guns, magazines, and reloading supplies
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Old 07-15-2018, 07:10 PM
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Default I've had problems with uneven....

I've had problems with uneven quality of (cheap) targets. The same gun will keyhole some shots. Sometimes it looks like I'm shooting 'rectanglecutters'
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Old 07-16-2018, 01:29 AM
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Without pictures it's really hard to help. Can you post some?

Even so, I'll bet what you're seeing is normal for the ammo you're using.
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Old 07-16-2018, 06:19 AM
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Usually a paper target hanging out in space with no backing will be "ripped" on bullet impact, not "punched".
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Last edited by OLDSTER; 07-16-2018 at 06:21 AM.
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Old 07-16-2018, 10:30 AM
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Faster bullets?
Backing the paper targets worked for me first time I saw that.

Last edited by Imissedagain; 07-16-2018 at 10:32 AM.
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Old 07-17-2018, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbtrucker View Post
I thought .38 special 130 gr was key holing and RO said it was the thin paper targets with no backing .
Same thing was happening with .45 ammo out of my 1911. The range officer said I should try changing the backing I’m putting the targets on and that helped a great deal.
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