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Old 07-20-2018, 10:00 PM
Rocker665 Rocker665 is offline
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HELP, ejecting issue with my full size .40 destroying brass HELP, ejecting issue with my full size .40 destroying brass HELP, ejecting issue with my full size .40 destroying brass HELP, ejecting issue with my full size .40 destroying brass HELP, ejecting issue with my full size .40 destroying brass  
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Hey guys for some time now my m&p 40 has been destroying brass upon ejecting the spent brass, it seems to be return to battery before fully ejecting, out of the hundred couple rounds I shot trying to figure this out maybe 10 didn't get destroyed and 1 actually jammed you'll include photos if I can figure out how to post them,
The gun **** great had about 2k rounds through it Nd then started, it had just night sites and a apex duty carry kit in it at the time, I proceeded to replace the guide rod assembly figuring it may be worn out, no luck, then when I got fed up I ordered everything I could minus the seer block, as the gun sits now it has the trijicon night sights, apex duty carry kit, the upgraded reset ram under the rear sight, the failure resistant extractor, AEK trigger, and I also replaced the ejector that sits on the seer block, I'm clueless as to what else could be cause this anyone have any ideas?
It has done this with multiple types of ammo, hollow points FMJ, all different brands,all ammo shot normal out of my friends m&p and did that in mine.
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  #2  
Old 07-20-2018, 10:19 PM
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I would suggest the gun is not able to open fully, and the slide is closing on the brass, because it has not been pushed out of the breech area by the ejector. (sorry to state the obvious, I'm sure you are aware that this is the crux of the problem) You should, however, see a definitive ejector mark on the back of the casing. No ejector mark, or one that is very faint would indicate the ejector is not forcefully impacting the rear of the casing as it should be. (Slide velocity too slow)

The other dent on the case mouth (the smaller one, on the left side in image #2) seems to also suggest that the casings may be hitting the bottom of the ejection port in the slide as they are being forced out by the ejector. Is there an obvious deposit of brass on the bottom ledge of the ejection port after you have finished firing? If so, the casings may be impacting that area and then bouncing up into the path of the slide as it is closing. Does the slide always lock back (lock open) on the last round? Would it be possible to have someone watch the area of the ejection port while the gun is being fired?

Perhaps the recoil spring or spring assy is too heavy? Magazines may play a roll in this also. Just some ideas.
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  #3  
Old 07-20-2018, 10:56 PM
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1. Your recoil spring end should be colored yellow 2. Your ejector should be straight 3. Reset ram? If your talking about the striker block, you might have kinked the spring. To check, push down on the striker block- should not be crunchy and should go flush with the bottom of the slide channel
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Old 07-21-2018, 01:25 AM
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Most likely the recoil spring is too stiff, thus causing the cycling to be too quick to eject the spent casing. I've seen this effect a number of times with "improved" semi-autos of all kinds, including rifles and shotguns.

The most recent example of this I have dealt with was with a Remington M48 shotgun (Basically a Browning A5 with a recoiling barrel and recontoured receiver) that I picked up cheap. The barrel and butt stock had both been roughly chopped to create a "whippet" gun. When test firing in this configuration, shells would fire just fine but would fail to eject, and darned near rip the rim from the casing, but leave the shell firmly lodged in the chamber. After flipping the friction ring around and giving the M48 a good cleaning and lube, the problem still persisted.

It took a bit of thinking, but I finally figured out that the mass removed by cutting the barrel was needed to cycle everything at the correct rate. Instead of cutting the recoil spring or replacing the barrel (anywhere between $135-$200, if you are lucky enough to find one), I cleaned up the hacksawed muzzle with a good tubing cutter, smoothed everything out, and made a heavy steel collar with a stout sight blade, then sweated it on over the last 2 1/2"-3" of barrel. For good measure, I also installed two allen-head set screws on the underside to keep the collar in place on the hard-recoiling puppy.

Voila!!! Problem solved. It again shot like a dream... except for the fact that I damned near bloodied my nose when firing it from the shoulder with the super-short stock! I corrected that problem by making and fitting a chunk of black walnut and installing a new Remington Super Cell pad.

The Lesson: Every time you monkey with something engineered by the factory, it is reasonable to expect that things will not turn out perfect. You must know how one part will affect the other, and switching out parts on a wholesale basis is almost always a bad idea. Unless you have done a particular build before and have worked out all the bugs, it is best to swap parts one at a time and test as you go.

It is wayyyy easier to iron out any kinks when following this friendly guideline.
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Old 07-21-2018, 02:06 AM
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Default Slide cycling too fast, not too slow. Increase recoil spring weight.

I had this problem with one of my .45acp 1911’s. When shooting full power loads the last round would catch on the case mouth which would be jammed on the chamber mouth with the case base still held by the breachface area.

The problem was the light factory (about 9 Ib) recoil spring in the pistol. When there were rounds in the mag the slide would move slowly enough under the upward pressure of the round to give time to eject the case. With no subsequent round to put pressure on the slide to slow it down the slide would slam forward so fast the case did not have time to eject.

Installing a 14 Ib recoil spring (standard for 230 gn full power .45 ACP is 18 Ib). the problem was cured and lighter powered (120 PF) rounds still functioned

I suspect your spring kit has a too light recoil spring. This happens when people think “lighter spring and faster slide is better”. In fact a heavier spring slows down the rearward travel of the slide allowing time for the case to eject, and less muzzle rise as the spring absorbs the impact of the slide reaching its rearward travel, coming to a halt before moving forward again. There are some YouTube videos showing how slowing down the slide actually reduces felt recoil and muzzle rise.

Try putting your original recoil spring back into the pistol and see what happens. If it cures the fault try a spring weight half way between the two and repeat until you find the lightest spring that functions properly in your pistol.
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Old 07-21-2018, 02:16 AM
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This is a long shot, but could you have encountered a batch of bad or weak ammo? I've had failures to eject from weak ammo failing to cycle the slide with a couple of my semi-autos, though not with my M&P 40c. It has 12,500 rounds through it, with maybe 2 or 3 FTEs. If your FTEs have occurred with a variety of quality ammo, then a mechanical issue is the likely cause. If that is the case, Smith & Wesson will take good care of you. My 40c developed light strikes around 10,000 rounds. When a new striker did not cure the problem, S&W took it back and rebuilt it good as new at no cost to me. Turnaround was 3 weeks.
Good Luck!
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Old 07-21-2018, 06:42 AM
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I think Kiwi Cop is on the correct path, I've seen the same issue with my older .40 FS.

OP has a full size .40, factory springs for both the 9 and .40 FS were originally color coded blue. Yellow is used in the compacts.

S&W also made a stronger full size spring assembly for the full size, color coded green for use with .357 Sig (or so I had been told). I recall reading that later .40 FS pistols came with a green coded RSA but that may just be my old man brain misfiring.

My FS .40 came with the blue spring; I also saw occasional cases showing the same damage as displayed by the OP, also with .357 Sig cases when using a factory .357 barrel with the blue RSA. My first thought with my problem was an extractor issue. I installed an Apex Failure Resistant Extractor but saw no change in performance.

Installing the green RSA in my .40 FS resulted in smoother operation with both .40 as well as .357 Sig.

I'd recommend trying the green coded RSA and see if that improves function. Keep the blue spring and use it for reduced power loads or if you install a 9mm conversion barrel.
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Old 07-21-2018, 08:05 PM
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HELP, ejecting issue with my full size .40 destroying brass HELP, ejecting issue with my full size .40 destroying brass HELP, ejecting issue with my full size .40 destroying brass HELP, ejecting issue with my full size .40 destroying brass HELP, ejecting issue with my full size .40 destroying brass  
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I did buy a original replacement spring the same weight as the gun came with I thought mine was worn out when it started crushing the brass, but it did it with both of them I did consider going down on the spring weight, keep in mind too this gun crushed the brass with ONLY a apex trigger kit and night sights, and I returned it to factory trigger and tried it and it still crushed brass, I only added all the other parts because I figured if I'm gonna replace everything I mas well upgrade them and the ram I was talking about is APEX tactical Reset Assist Mechanism, R.A.M., the gun seems to fully function normal except for the spent casings hitting the top front of the ejection port on the way out ill try ordering another recoil spring this time a lighter one
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Old 07-21-2018, 08:33 PM
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OK wait. You first said the ram was under the rear sight. That would be the striker block. The APEX RAM goes in the Sear Housing and is designed for the models that had the internal lock. So which is it?

Who installed the parts?

Make sure there's no junk or debris under the extractor. Did you replace the Apex one with the stock one too?
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Old 07-23-2018, 07:51 AM
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I would say it's the extractor. If you have 2000 rounds through the gun the extractor may have debris or needs replacing.
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Old 07-23-2018, 09:53 AM
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Put the factory recoil spring back in the pistol!
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Old 07-23-2018, 01:37 PM
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You also replaced the ejector that sits on the sear block, something may be happening there. Try to replicate the problem by chambering an empty case with a dummy round in the magazine. Slowly pull the slide back and see when the case ejects out the side if it does at all.
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Old 07-24-2018, 01:22 PM
Rocker665 Rocker665 is offline
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HELP, ejecting issue with my full size .40 destroying brass HELP, ejecting issue with my full size .40 destroying brass HELP, ejecting issue with my full size .40 destroying brass HELP, ejecting issue with my full size .40 destroying brass HELP, ejecting issue with my full size .40 destroying brass  
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Apex failure resistant extractor and I installed all parts, I did them some time ago now this happened go the pistol about a year ago I just threw it in the save and forgot about it bacl them but I could if sworn I had to take the rear sight off to install the Reset Assist Mechanism... could be wrong like I said it's been a while sense I installed them


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OK wait. You first said the ram was under the rear sight. That would be the striker block. The APEX RAM goes in the Sear Housing and is designed for the models that had the internal lock. So which is it?

Who installed the parts?

Make sure there's no junk or debris under the extractor. Did you replace the Apex one with the stock one too?
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Old 07-24-2018, 01:26 PM
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Every part of the gun besides the frame and slide, seer block, and barrel is brand new I've replaced every thing else, ejector and extractor were the seclnd thing I replaced first being guide rod and spring assembly

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I would say it's the extractor. If you have 2000 rounds through the gun the extractor may have debris or needs replacing.
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Old 07-24-2018, 01:27 PM
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I tried multiple springs including ones from friends m&p 40 pistols


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Put the factory recoil spring back in the pistol!
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Old 07-24-2018, 01:29 PM
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I've tried from everything I see it cycles fine, that's why I think it may be returning to battery too fast, I ordered a lighter recoil spring we'llsee if that helps when it comes In

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You also replaced the ejector that sits on the sear block, something may be happening there. Try to replicate the problem by chambering an empty case with a dummy round in the magazine. Slowly pull the slide back and see when the case ejects out the side if it does at all.
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Old 07-24-2018, 03:57 PM
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HELP, ejecting issue with my full size .40 destroying brass HELP, ejecting issue with my full size .40 destroying brass HELP, ejecting issue with my full size .40 destroying brass HELP, ejecting issue with my full size .40 destroying brass HELP, ejecting issue with my full size .40 destroying brass  
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The gun has a lifetime service warranty; instead of all this guess work you might consider just sending it in to S&W for service.
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Old 07-25-2018, 09:33 AM
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I thought I'd google around for an answer. I came across this thread Link

Rocker665, looks like you started that thread 5 years ago. Same issue?
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Old 07-25-2018, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaryWoody View Post
I thought I'd google around for an answer. I came across this thread Link

Rocker665, looks like you started that thread 5 years ago. Same issue?
Good sleuthing! I wondered why he hadn't sent it back to S&W, but after reading the posts in the old thread, I saw that he may have gotten some advice that could have scared him off. One of the posters told him that if he sent back his gun with the Apex parts, S&W would remove those parts, install factory parts in their place, keep the Apex parts, and charge him for the new factory parts. Maybe that was true in 2013, but I had a different experience when I sent my 40c in for an overhaul last year. My gun had an Apex DCAEK installed, but S&W not only returned the Apex parts, they did not charge me a cent for rebuilding my gun. My advice is that he should call S&W customer service to discuss his case, and find out in advance if he can get free repairs and his Apex parts back.
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Old 07-28-2018, 12:07 PM
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Changing parts in a S&W firearm, voids the warranty, creates operational problems and can create some real serious problems in a court of law if you ever have to use a modified gun! Just saying !!!!!!!!
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Old 07-28-2018, 01:07 PM
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Well, under the category of "long shot" (yes, pun intended!), try this.

Grab an empty case, one that's not mangled.

Field strip your pistol.

Grab the slide and insert the empty case from below like it was feeding from a magazine. It should take a bit of pressure to get it to slide under the extractor. Now shake the slide around side to side. Does it retain the case?

Now use your finger to press the case back against the breech face. Hold the slide up to a bright background or even a light and look from the mag side through the breech and the space between the extractor lip and the case rim. You should see a bit of space. Do you?

Now use a light and look into the chamber. Does it appear clean and smooth? Look closely inside at the ridge the case mouth headspaces. Does it look clean?
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Old 07-28-2018, 05:53 PM
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Yes this is the same issue I got sick of it threw it in the safe and forgot about and switched to shooting my 1911 i just finally dug it back out


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I thought I'd google around for an answer. I came across this thread Link

Rocker665, looks like you started that thread 5 years ago. Same issue?
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Old 07-28-2018, 05:55 PM
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Lol apparently you've never shot a m&p factory configuration in mass... you'd never even hit the target your hand starts shaking before the trigger breaks sense it's a 10lb minimum pull... my kit was originally installed by a state cop and lowered my trigger pull from 11lbs to 5


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Changing parts in a S&W firearm, voids the warranty, creates operational problems and can create some real serious problems in a court of law if you ever have to use a modified gun! Just saying !!!!!!!!
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Old 07-29-2018, 04:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocker665 View Post
Lol apparently you've never shot a m&p factory configuration in mass... you'd never even hit the target your hand starts shaking before the trigger breaks sense it's a 10lb minimum pull... my kit was originally installed by a state cop and lowered my trigger pull from 11lbs to 5
I'm thinking that something got assembled incorrectly early on in it's life, probably during the kit install, it has to be something like a bent ejector, or a broken or chipped extractor. There are far too many M&P's out there working properly for this to be a design fault Suggestion: take the slide off and take a picture of the ejector (silver piece on the left side of the frame next to the sear block) and remove the extractor and take a picture of it (at the same time make sure there is a spring and it isn't broken under the extractor when you remove it. I suspect your problem lies in those areas.
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Old 07-29-2018, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocker665 View Post
Every part of the gun besides the frame and slide, seer block, and barrel is brand new I've replaced every thing else, ejector and extractor were the seclnd thing I replaced first being guide rod and spring assembly
Can you post pics of the ejector please? Just remove the slide and take a pic of the frame like this (no arrow necessary):


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Changing parts in a S&W firearm, voids the warranty,...
It does not. You should read the warranty before making claims like this.
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Old 07-31-2018, 10:51 PM
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Can you post pics of the ejector please? Just remove the slide and take a pic of the frame like this (no arrow necessary):


It does not. You should read the warranty before making claims like this.
I have a relative that has worked for S&W for many years and he stated that the use of foreign parts will most certainly void any and all warranty!!!! S&W will never warranty something it never manufactured!!!! That is just plain common sense!

Now, foreign parts can also cause serious problems for you in a court of law if you are ever involved in a shooting with that modified weapon, both criminally and civilly! You should read a law book sir!
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Old 08-01-2018, 02:36 PM
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If after talking with CS and if they can’t help you. Find a qualified gunsmith and have him take a look.
You have spent probably $200 or more in parts and now have a $700+ gun. There is a good chance of an installation of parts issue or wrong parts installed.
With everything you’ve done and someone else has done,I would spent the $50-$100 dollars to have it looked at or spend the money to have S&W rebuild the pistol. JMO

Be SAFE and shoot often!
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Old 08-01-2018, 06:15 PM
Retired Cop Retired Cop is offline
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If it is a stock S&W M&P firearm they will fix it for free. Speaking with my contact at S&W he thinks it is a timing problem caused by improper spring tensions. If they are S&W springs they will be replaced free of charge and they may even pay for the shipping if you talk nice to them!!!!!!!
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  #29  
Old 08-03-2018, 02:04 AM
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Rastoff Rastoff is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired Cop View Post
I have a relative that has worked for S&W for many years and he stated that the use of foreign parts will most certainly void any and all warranty!!!!
I'm sure your relative is a very nice person, but either you mis-remember what they said or they are wrong too. Putting an after market part in a S&W gun does not void the warranty.

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Originally Posted by Retired Cop View Post
Now, foreign parts can also cause serious problems for you in a court of law if you are ever involved in a shooting with that modified weapon, both criminally and civilly! You should read a law book sir!
Wrong again. Please state even one case where a person was put in prison because of a modification to their gun in an otherwise justified use in self-defense.
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Old 08-03-2018, 07:57 AM
ScaryWoody ScaryWoody is offline
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From Smith and Wesson Warranty:

"Smith & Wesson will not be responsible for: Defects or malfunctions resulting from careless handling, unauthorized adjustments or modifications made or attempted by anyone other than a qualified gunsmith following Smith & Wesson authorized procedures, or failure to follow the disassembly instructions in the Smith & Wesson manual."

A bit vague. Firearms manufacturers are obligated to only return their product to factory design specs. It's a liability issue. You should always remove aftermarket parts before a trip to the factory.

In regards to modifications leading to issues in courts of law, I don't think the mod adds to whatever charge but it certainly may not help you. I do recall a year or so ago the Police Officer that used his personal AR15 to take down a criminal. He had a dust cover with "You're F*cked" that didn't help his case.
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  #31  
Old 08-03-2018, 12:21 PM
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Rastoff Rastoff is offline
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It's not vague at all. They say, "S&W will not be responsible for defects resulting from...modifications..." So, if the problem is a result of a defective S&W part, they'll fix it. If the problem is caused by some aftermarket part, they won't fix it. If you send your gun in with aftermarket parts installed, it will likely be returned with those parts removed. However, we have seen it happen both ways. Some people got their guns back with the aftermarket trigger still in the gun. Some got their gun back with the aftermarket parts in a bag and some never got their parts back at all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaryWoody View Post
In regards to modifications leading to issues in courts of law, I don't think the mod adds to whatever charge but it certainly may not help you. I do recall a year or so ago the Police Officer that used his personal AR15 to take down a criminal. He had a dust cover with "You're F*cked" that didn't help his case.
That happened in Arizona. In that case the judge actually disallowed using that in the case. The only place that hurt him was in the court of public opinion.
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Last edited by Rastoff; 08-03-2018 at 12:28 PM.
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