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  #1  
Old 08-05-2018, 04:16 PM
Jimk45 Jimk45 is offline
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What is the best base for mounting a Fastfire III red dot to a M&P
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Old 08-05-2018, 04:37 PM
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Really only two options: either send the slide out to have it custom milled (a lot of shops offer this service), or get a M&P CORE slide, which is already milled for red dot sights.

ETA: disregard this post. I misread what you were looking for. Sorry.

Last edited by ScottS; 08-05-2018 at 05:16 PM.
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Old 08-05-2018, 04:46 PM
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Have you checked with Burris for a mount?
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Old 08-05-2018, 04:58 PM
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Default Burris

There are several on the market, just wondering what most are using and if the stay tight.
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Old 08-05-2018, 07:31 PM
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I don’t know if this applies to the OP, but please—

Don’t “try out” the red dot concept by finding the cheapest way to mount the cheapest red dot and then see if you like it. You won’t, so don’t bother.

A properly set up red dot sight on a quality pistol is a new way to aim and shoot. It is a joy to use after a fairly short learning curve if you are already a decent, consistent shooter.

If you degrade any of the components of a proper set up, what you get will be harder to learn to use, less adaptable and more frustrating. This is truly one of those technologies that does not have a low end entry point that works.

I’m all for people doing what they want and spending their budget as they see fit. However, I dislike budget minded folks expecting to get top tier performance from a tier four investment and without understanding what they are missing.

The best way is to find someone with a proper RDS set up and shoot that gun. You’ll like it.
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Old 08-05-2018, 09:18 PM
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There are RDS mounts that use the dovetail for the rear site. These tend to be specific to the RDS (i.e. Trijicon, Burris, Vortex). At least, they don't require machining.
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Old 08-05-2018, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimk45 View Post
What is the best base for mounting a Fastfire III red dot to a M&P
Well, I may or may not understand your question and my answer coincides, sort of, with another.

If you have an M&P Core, use the correct baseplate that comes with it from the factory. If you don't have a core and thus need to have the slide milled. Have it milled for the specific red dot you intend to use. In that case (a slide that needs to be milled for a specific red dot), no adapter will be or should be required.
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Old 08-06-2018, 10:34 AM
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Sight Mount Home

I have used this mount on both my Shield and my Full size. Rear sight dovetail same size.
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Old 08-06-2018, 11:03 AM
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If you do not have a CORE, you can use the existing dovetail with no milling needed. One example is here:

FastFire™ Mounts | Burris Optics

You lose your rear site.
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Old 08-07-2018, 05:19 PM
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I used the dovetail mount from Outer Impact on my 5" M&P 2.0. It accepts many different red dot sights. Has worked great for me so far, with a Vortex Venom. It's not quite as nice as my Sig's that have the slides factory milled for a red dot, since it sits up higher. That impacts the point of impact a little more at varying ranges.

I may end up getting the slide milled at some point. I just hate to invalidate the lifetime warranty by doing that. And for a range gun, the Outer Impact mount works fine.

https://outerimpact.com/shop/red-dot...mp-pistol-m-r/
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Old 08-09-2018, 03:51 PM
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I'll second the Outer Impact mounts. I have them on several different pistols and have had no issues. Their mounts will work with most of the popular miniature red dots.
My 5" M&P with a Trijicon RMR mounted and my MK IV Hunter with a Burris Fast Fire 2.



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Old 08-15-2018, 09:05 AM
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If you do not have the CORE Model M&P, check out the Carver Custom Red Dot Sight Mount.
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Old 08-19-2018, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosco Shooter View Post
If you do not have the CORE Model M&P, check out the Carver Custom Red Dot Sight Mount.
Adding all that framework that attaches to the bottom, to accommodate a sight on top seems too cumbersome for me....
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Old 08-19-2018, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim46ok View Post
Adding all that framework that attaches to the bottom, to accommodate a sight on top seems too cumbersome for me....
This is the kind of cheaper compromise to which I referred in my earlier post. It will achieve the goal of mounting a RDS. It will not yield maximum effectiveness of the potential of the RDS system.

Kind of like putting undersized wheels and tires on your car—for show, not go.
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Old 08-19-2018, 11:36 AM
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Another vote for the Outer Impact system. I've got their mounts on a M&P, two Ruger 22s,and S&W Victory. Mounted FF2, FF3, Vortex Venom and Vipers. They also fit C-more etc. All on the same base.
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Old 08-19-2018, 11:39 AM
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I'm still on the hunt for a C.O.R.E. slide, but in the meantime, after looking closely at the Outer Impact mount, I decided on the ADE Advanced Optics Red Dot Mounting Plate.





You order the corresponding mount for the M&P, and remove the rear sight. A mounting dovetail slips snugly into the sight dovetail, and you secure the RDS to the mount. Takes about 5 minutes at most.

I chose it over the Outer Impact for two reasons: first, it's concave, so it sits more securely on the top of the slide. From the side, it looks like a "thicker" mount, but because it's concave, it actually sits as low or lower on the slide than the Outer Impact. Second, it has four "locator pins" on the mount, and the Outer Impact uses just two.





When you look at the "thickness" of the mount, make sure you measure from the top of the slide.








Not perfect, and the hunt for a slide goes on, but for $20, it's a surprisingly good (and stout) mount, and it'll do for now.

Last edited by ScottS; 08-19-2018 at 11:42 AM.
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Old 08-19-2018, 11:49 AM
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Looks like it'll do the job.
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Old 08-19-2018, 12:28 PM
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I haven't seen only the slide for sale (unless you find one on ebay), but I did buy a Ported CORE slide kit for about $350. Assembled slide, ported 5" barrel, rds plates, and CORE backstraps. The slide has the suppressor height sites and the "improved" striker block.

I topped mine with an RM06
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Old 08-19-2018, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saudade View Post
I haven't seen only the slide for sale (unless you find one on ebay), but I did buy a Ported CORE slide kit for about $350. Assembled slide, ported 5" barrel, rds plates, and CORE backstraps. The slide has the suppressor height sites and the "improved" striker block.

I topped mine with an RM06

I've seen (and missed) a couple, on the "other" site, as well as some others. I keep looking.


I've seen a lot of the ported CORE slides, but I don't want the ports.


On the hunt...
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Old 08-19-2018, 01:08 PM
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Helpful advantages (among others) of a complete RDS system include:

1. Iron sights, elevated to co-witness (20-25% in bottom of window) with the dot through the RDS. Fastest learning curve to use aligned irons as you have always done to “find the dot”. Lack of iron sights = dot only focus. Learning curve longer and harder. No backup sighting system if RDS fails.
2. Lowest mounting of the RDS above the bore as possible (works with #1; easier to sight over a broader range of distances). The higher the RDS, the more difficult it is to use. Your natural pointing will be significantly different than using traditional iron sights. This makes “finding the dot” slower and harder. CORE + plate = extra elevation over milled only slide. Millimeters make a difference. May require even taller irons if using an adapter plate, and thickness is an issue. Screws have less “meat” to grab. Lose-lose.
3. RDS securely mounted with ridges fore & aft, as in a slide milled specifically for that sight. Mounting pins in addition to screws work well also. Screws alone on a mounting plate are the least secure as they are only two shallow points of anchoring, unless the mounting bracket is thick and therefore tall.

Brackets that mount to the rear sight dovetail often eliminate the rear sight, or at least offer only a very compromised and very tall alternative that requires a corresponding tall front sight. If the sight mounts to the bracket with only two screws (not usually the case any more, pins) shearing of the screws under recoil can be a problem.
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Old 08-19-2018, 03:38 PM
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Check out the EGW dovetail mount. It uses the rear sight dovetail. You will need sight pusher to install this mount but it does not move once installed. It is working great with my Vortex Venom.
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Old 08-20-2018, 11:50 PM
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Go to Lone Wolf's site. You can have it milled and they'll put the sight on
for less than a hundred dollars.
They did my M&P Shield and I bought a Shield RMS sight from them. They sell the Burris FF too__or send your Burris with your slide. One week turn around is nearly unbeatable. As is their price.
I have my M&P Shield with the milled Shield RMS sight right here on my
desk. Do to our hot weather I have it in a Remora full sweat shield holster.
Now these red dot sights come with different size dots. I choose the 8MOS
for fast SD practice.
I had a Burris FF sight. Great sight. I just like the Shield that is on constantly with no off and on button__no buttons at all and 2-3 year battery life.
Stay safe.
Poli Viejo
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Old 08-21-2018, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn View Post
Go to Lone Wolf's site. You can have it milled and they'll put the sight on
for less than a hundred dollars.
They did my M&P Shield and I bought a Shield RMS sight from them. They sell the Burris FF too__or send your Burris with your slide. One week turn around is nearly unbeatable. As is their price.
I have my M&P Shield with the milled Shield RMS sight right here on my
desk. Do to our hot weather I have it in a Remora full sweat shield holster.
Now these red dot sights come with different size dots. I choose the 8MOS
for fast SD practice.
I had a Burris FF sight. Great sight. I just like the Shield that is on constantly with no off and on button__no buttons at all and 2-3 year battery life.
Stay safe.
Poli Viejo

Wow. This price and turn-around seems awesome, so I checked the site. Unfortunately, they only do the Shield, not the full-size M&P. Back to the drawing board for me...
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Old 11-05-2018, 09:43 PM
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Default my M&P Shield in .40

please help, I'm looking for a slide in mount for a micro red dot sight, for my M&P Shield .40. does any one know where i should look?
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Old 11-06-2018, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DEATHADDER1973 View Post
please help, I'm looking for a slide in mount for a micro red dot sight, for my M&P Shield .40. does any one know where i should look?
Post 22, above.
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Old 11-06-2018, 12:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CB3 View Post
I don’t know if this applies to the OP, but please—

Don’t “try out” the red dot concept by finding the cheapest way to mount the cheapest red dot and then see if you like it. You won’t, so don’t bother.

A properly set up red dot sight on a quality pistol is a new way to aim and shoot. It is a joy to use after a fairly short learning curve if you are already a decent, consistent shooter.

If you degrade any of the components of a proper set up, what you get will be harder to learn to use, less adaptable and more frustrating. This is truly one of those technologies that does not have a low end entry point that works.

I’m all for people doing what they want and spending their budget as they see fit. However, I dislike budget minded folks expecting to get top tier performance from a tier four investment and without understanding what they are missing.

The best way is to find someone with a proper RDS set up and shoot that gun. You’ll like it.
This has to be some of the best advice I have seen on this site in quite awhile. I don't know how many times during bowling pin matches I have attended that someone had to hold up a stage because they "can't get my red dot to work" or "I have lost the dot in the sun" but they will brag that they only spent $49.95 on their red dot.
I stumbled into a used 9L Core on Gunbroker for just over $330 shipped and transfer fees, even though it is missing the mounting plates, I couldn't pass it up.
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Old 11-06-2018, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DEATHADDER1973 View Post
please help, I'm looking for a slide in mount for a micro red dot sight, for my M&P Shield .40. does any one know where i should look?
The Outer Impact mount I linked to in post #10 is still working great for me. I've not had to mess with it all.
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Old 11-06-2018, 06:15 PM
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[QUOTE=Horn;140140080]Go to Lone Wolf's site. You can have it milled and they'll put the sight on
for less than a hundred dollars.

Where is Lone Wolf's site?
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Old 11-06-2018, 06:31 PM
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Default Dove Tail Mounts

Rear sight dove tail mounts (DTM) for an RDS (Red Dot Sight) are quick, easy and relatively inexpensive. Designed for a specific sight’s footprint, they will hold the sight securely and the dovetail mount is strong.

As always, with any major change to a handgun, your intended use of the gun will dictate what you add to it and what you are willing to pay. Range guns may get lower end investments. Serious self defense guns probably get higher $ investments because lives depend on them, and with that higher investment, they are easier to use and more robust. My experience is with three milled setups for self defense.

The disadvantages of the DTM IMO include:
*Increased height over bore of the sight
*Lack of backup iron sights to co-witness through the RDS
*Added weight above the very rear of the slide
*Cheaper RDS are less robust. DTMs cost as much as milling.
*Greater exposure of the RDS and mount to damage
*Harder to deal with in a holster because of increased sight height

With a DTM you have a gun that you need to hold differently, sight differently and which has a different balance and feel. Dealing with these disadvantages if the gun is used for recreation may not be a big deal. If the gun is used for personal defense, they are worth noting, IMO.

One or two of these disadvantages may not mean much, especially to a competent, adaptable shooter. However, when taken together it can mean the inexpensive DTM solution is a bargain that may end up underperforming expectations.

Discussion:

Height over bore: Screws holding the sight to the mount must have enough metal under the sight to allow the threads to sink in and hold the sight tightly without backing out, or worse shearing off, under recoil. Mounting pins if available help secure the sight and prevent shearing, but the screws still must be sufficiently long to be secure. The DTM starts off above the top of the slide and then must be thick enough for secure screws. Add to that measurement the height of the RDS base itself. These two stacked distances are significantly higher than an RDS sitting low in a milled slide.

It means your traditional hold used for iron sights will no longer work. You have to compensate for the increased height over bore to get the sight in front of your eyes. This makes learning to use or “find” the dot in the window more difficult for many people. Your gun will shoot differently than it used to, and differently from all your other traditionally sighted guns. This requires extra adaptation.

Also, because of the DTM vertical offset, your Point of Impact (PoI) vs your Point of Aim (PoA) will have more vertical displacement, especially at close ranges. You will have to minimize this by a trial and error sighting-in effort. For instance, if you sight in at 10 yards, bullets hitting nearer targets, especially at like 10’, will strike proportionately lower than if you had a sight milled into the slide or used iron sights. Your drop PoI at longer range will also increase. Your sweet spot of “Point blank range” where you can hit your target without vertically adjusting the dot for impact, narrows. One could argue at average pistol distances this is inconsequential. It is important to me for shooting eyeballs at 12’ and upper torsos at 100 yards. YMMV.

Iron sights: Having backup iron sights (BUIS, rear sight in traditional position at the rear of the slide) co-witnessed through the bottom 25% of the RDS window is more than a “Nice to have” feature, especially on a self defense pistol. It does usually require new, taller BUIS than standard factory sights. This is another expense.

*With BUIS, learning to “find” the dot, the chief objection for most new users, is easy. Ignore the dot. Line up your iron sights the way you always do. Voila! There’s the dot. That’s what co-witnessing is. You can always come back to the irons. Simple.
(Note: If you can’t line up and shoot iron sights well, learning to use a dot will be frustrating, and without iron sights at all, it will be even more frustrating.)
*If the dot fails (or you forget to turn it on), you still have sights capable of precision.
*Your hold of the gun is the same to get your sight picture
*Your eye alignment behind your sights stays virtually the same
*Almost everything is familiar and traditional

Weight: With a DTM the weight of the sight and the mount are all transferred through the dove tail to the slide both while the gun is static and worse, under recoil impulse. This may increase muzzle flip and make follow up shots slower and less accurate. The gun will shoot differently.

With a milled RDS the balance of the gun is almost identical to the original feel, and the recoil impulse is the same as just having iron sights. The total additional weight of the RDS is reduced by the amount of milled material vs. the added weight of the DTM. The milled RDS weight is distributed more centrally and lower down on the slide. The gun feels the same. There is less, or even no, adaptation.

Robustness: Cheap RDS and DTMs are less robust than a top tier RDS milled into a slide. If an RDS fails on the way to or at the range, there is no real consequence. If the DTM gets tweaked because of a drop or a snag, or fails at a weak point QC missed, no big deal at competition. Avoiding this (minor) potential is a value add for the defensive handgun. I'm not suggesting the DTM is not secure, but both the mount and the RDS are more susceptible to damage than a milled sight because they hang high and exposed above the rear of the gun. They are significantly more likely to snag on clothing or other objects.

Holster: The increased exposed height of the DTM and RDS make them stick out farther from the front of the holster. That increased exposure can lead to snagging and damage. It will be more difficult to conceal and to draw cleanly. The milled, lowered RDS is smaller in height and overall weight and better protected for holster carry and abuse.

My conclusions:

So, milling an RDS in your slide requires the least adaption by the shooter to the new sighting system while retaining the advantages of the traditional sighting system. With a milled slide and BUIS you have two competent sighting systems with a gun that handles in the same way as before modification. You can remove the RDS and install a cover plate which is attractive in the slide. The taller BUIS can be left in place and will work fine, although standard iron sights can be reinstalled.

With DTM, I believe the gun is harder to adapt to and to learn to shoot well and is more susceptible to damage. It only has one new, non-traditional sighting system placed high above the gun without backup or training aid sights. DTM is quickly identified as the low end entry into RDS shooting. Potential performance is compromised.

Ultimately, for most people, their most influential factor in the RDS system decision is price. Second is probably the ability to discard the upgrade and return the gun to the original, familiar configuration without too much expense. These are the “tried it and didn’t like it” folks.

Maximizing the potential of an RDS for speed, accuracy and reliability is not everyone’s goal. At least trying it out is. If that is the case, shoot a gun belonging to someone else with a great optic milled to the slide and with co-witnessed BUIS. Maybe also try a DTM version. Then decide what you may be willing to give up for the sake of budget or your shooting needs.

Good shooting, buddies.

Last edited by CB3; 11-07-2018 at 07:20 AM.
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  #30  
Old 11-06-2018, 07:47 PM
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Default

^^^^^A very well written analysis.^^^^^
I am firmly in the milled slide school having tried it both ways.
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Old 11-07-2018, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CB3 View Post
Ultimately, for most people, their most influential factor in the RDS system decision is price. Second is probably the ability to discard the upgrade and return the gun to the original, familiar configuration without too much expense. These are the “tried it and didn’t like it” folks.
The cost of the Outer Impact at $50 is nowhere near what getting a slide milled would cost. The weight of the DTM is totally insignificant. The RDS itself is what adds more noticeable weight.

But I do agree that I probably would not go DTM for a carry gun. Both the robustness and lack of backup co-witness would be the biggest stumbling blocks for me. Bore axis differential would not bother me as a carry gun, though. At the distances most SD shootings occur, it would be entirely insignificant.

I also disagree with the price being the driving factor. For me, and many others I believe, it's voiding the lifetime warranty by having the slide milled.

Unfortunately, S&W does not offer anything below a full size gun that comes optics ready, or at least not that I'm aware of. You'd think they'd address that hole in their product line and offer the compact models with that option.
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Old 11-11-2018, 02:24 PM
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Default Milling__ Period

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimk45 View Post
What is the best base for mounting a Fastfire III red dot to a M&P
The best way to mount a red dot sight on a pistol is milling.
The sight sets the lowest. Even with a pistol "ready" for a red
dot the sight will set higher.
One sight (And JPoint is made by same company and less money)
I prefer is the Shield RMS or the Shield RMSc. The Shield RMSc
is mentioned for the G43 and M&P Shield.... and most other single stack pistols.
Shield (These are made in the UK) mentions Brownells as their distributor in the United States.
Now at this time Lone Wolf is not selling the RMSc___likely will soon. They do sell the RMS size.
You can purchase the Shield RMSc (or RMS) from Brownells and ship it with your M&P Shield slide to Lone Wolf__ $99.95 for milling and mounting the sight. Excellent work and state one-week turnaround.
Galloway and others are also doing milling. Galloway does more different slides than Lone Wolf. ($125 but longer turnaround)
Listen to those of us who've tried less expensive ways___ Have your slide milled.
I have three__ Sig P320, G43 and M&P Shield. I had Lone Wolf put the Shield RMS on mine (Before Shield came out with the RMSc.) and the overhang can hardly be noticed.
Stay safe
Poli Viejo
P.S.
There's lots of talk about adding suppressor sights to co-witness after mounting a red dot. That's another reason I prefer the Shield RMS or RMSc sight. When mounted on a milled slide it co-witneses with your original factory sights. And no need to adjust dot brightness__choose your dot size and it automatically adjusts to the environment. Also no Off or On button__no buttons at all. It stays on constantly
and the battery lasts 2 to 3 years. For most who are not packing professionally__ 4 years.
The RMS (wider of the two sights) has a drawer that slides out the left side for changing batteries.
The RMSc (More narrow for single stack pistols) must be removed to change batteries. I find this
no problem. I use a bore sighter to adjust the original zero anyway. Zeroing is the only adjustment
you make with the Shield sight.
Shield made sights for 30 years for the Brit's military and special forces. About 18 months ago they
started selling commercially. This year they brought out the RMSc. (for single stack pistols)

Last edited by Horn; 11-11-2018 at 02:43 PM. Reason: Added a "P.S."
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Old 11-17-2018, 11:26 PM
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Default Lone Wolf Distriubtors

[quote=trikerdon;140222213]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn View Post
Go to Lone Wolf's site. You can have it milled and they'll put the sight on
for less than a hundred dollars.

Where is Lone Wolf's site?
Lone Wolf Distributors.com
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Old 11-17-2018, 11:37 PM
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Default "Where To Go?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by DEATHADDER1973 View Post
please help, I'm looking for a slide in mount for a micro red dot sight, for my M&P Shield .40. does any one know where i should look?
Lone Wolf Distributors can do your Shield. A penny shy of $100 to mill your slide. If you don't already own a red dot check out what they have for sale. I bought my first Shield RMS from them and had my Shield 9 milled. Perfect and fast service.
They've always specialized in Glocks. Maybe the popularity of the Shield? They do the M&P Shield now.
Galloway can do it too__ $125 and you pay shipping both ways and send both your sight and slide. They don't sell sights.
Stay safe
Poli Viejo
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Old 12-14-2018, 02:26 AM
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Default Lone Wolf Distributos.com

[quote=trikerdon;140222213]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn View Post
Go to Lone Wolf's site. You can have it milled and they'll put the sight on
for less than a hundred dollars.

Where is Lone Wolf's site?
Lone Wolf Distributors. Google it. There web site is a model for
explaining what they do and cost. About one week turnaround once they have your slide.
Excellent work.
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Old 12-14-2018, 05:25 PM
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Default Let Lone Wolf Industries Do It

Quote:
Originally Posted by DEATHADDER1973 View Post
please help, I'm looking for a slide in mount for a micro red dot sight, for my M&P Shield .40. does any one know where i should look?
Check the post by Horn above.
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Old 12-17-2018, 07:21 PM
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Default Galloway Mills Slides Too

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottS View Post
Wow. This price and turn-around seems awesome, so I checked the site. Unfortunately, they only do the Shield, not the full-size M&P. Back to the drawing board for me...
Google Galloway. They mill various slides for different red dots
$125 and you pay shipping both ways. And no one week turnaround. (several weeks)
You might find someone who will mill it. I wouldn't pay over
a $125 but.....have early on... :-(
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