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Old 08-09-2018, 05:18 PM
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Default M&P 9c Future?

Now that Smith and Wesson has come out with the 2.0 Compact, what do you think will be the future of the 9c? Would they still produce it, upgrade it, or phase it out?
Thanks.
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Old 08-09-2018, 06:03 PM
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I think the will come out with a double subcompact. Meaning they will shorten the grip on the 3.6” for a 12 round double stack and phase out the gen 1.0 9c and 40c.

So the will have a single stack subcompact (shield), 3.1” and a sub compact 3.6” (9c) and the compact 4.0” 9c and the full size.

They would then have a option from single stack 7+1 all the way to double stack 17 round with intermediate size in both barrel and grip and # of rounds in between.

And don't for get the “pocket” 380 body guard.

Last edited by Flyingfool; 08-30-2018 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 08-10-2018, 06:18 PM
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I hope they will. My 1.0c is my favorite CCW. I would love the features of a 2.0 for it (with a little less aggressive grip).
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Old 08-10-2018, 08:54 PM
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Will the back straps for the 1.0 fit the new 2.0 frame. If so a large
Portion of the 2.0 grip texture could Be removed by installing the 1.0 backstrap. Only leaving a bit on each side and the front. Sand paper can tone that down if need be.
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Old 08-11-2018, 01:43 AM
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Everything depends on sales. If it's still selling, they'll keep making it. However, I suspect that with the introduction of the 3.6" 2.0 Compact model, the life span of the original 9c is short.
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Old 08-11-2018, 06:59 AM
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Sure do Love my 1.0 9C
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Old 08-11-2018, 07:54 AM
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With the 2.0 Compact competing directly with the Glock 19, you would hope Smith and Wesson would come out with a 9c 2.0 version to compete with the Glock 26.
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Old 08-11-2018, 05:07 PM
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When attempting these sort of predictions, you have to take into account California's goofy laws. Each new variant must be tested by California before they will allow it to be sold in that state. I understand that to be a very costly proposition for the manufacturers. The molds have long since been paid for.
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Old 08-11-2018, 06:15 PM
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I say they will bring out an update to the 9c 1.0. Maybe not the name, maybe Shield double stack, etc.

1. They already have a 3.6 inch barrel in production.
Obviously, a bit longer than the original, but no new mold required if they go with the 3.6.

2. They already have a 12 and a 10 round compliant 9c magazine mold for production.

3. They already have an updated slide.

That leaves the frame to be designed, if not already done.

Of course the data must suggest the market would support it, but development cost can’t be so much that it isn’t worth the time to take a serious look at making such a model.

Edit: I’d like to think S&W from a market perspective would like to keep in line with the Glock 26. Not being a Glock guy I can’t speak to the demand for those, but if the sales are good then it makes since to roll out an updated 9c/12 round capacity.

I think it was smart sales and marketing wise to bring out the 4” first as there wasn’t one similar in the M&P line. The 3.6” falls closer to the original 9c target market so the void wasn’t as large when considering new sales (non S&W owners) -why kill off 9c 1.0 sales before releasing the 4”. S&W benefits from all the early adopters of the 4” wanting the 3.6” or at least has the carry over attention to bump the sales up on the 3.6”.

I feel like this Fall maybe early next Spring we’ll see a new model rolling out.

Of course I could simply be blinded by my want and not being realistic

Last edited by Ballanrk; 08-11-2018 at 07:19 PM. Reason: Added info
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Old 08-11-2018, 06:33 PM
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There’s the shield and then there is the 3.6” compact. I don’t think there is enough demand to make something in between.

Me personally, I prefer to carry the 4” 2.0 compact (.40 s&w) or 4.25” 2.0 full size (9mm)
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Old 08-11-2018, 06:47 PM
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When attempting these sort of predictions, you have to take into account California's goofy laws.
I'm not sure why you would say that, but it's wrong. Why would CA laws affect sales at all?
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Old 08-11-2018, 07:17 PM
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Uh, no new variant will be offered for sale in CA unless it’s from a private party. The 1.0s, except for the Shield are no longer on the roster. The 2.0s never were.
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Old 08-11-2018, 07:30 PM
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Uh, no new variant will be offered for sale in CA unless itís from a private party. The 1.0s, except for the Shield are no longer on the roster. The 2.0s never were.
Good to know, useful info. That makes me think since itís a given no 2.0 will be approved. S&W already accounted for that, which wouldnít factor into potential sales losses when determining the potential market capture of an updated 9c 1.0.

I assumed the only hurdle could be magazine capacity compliance.
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Old 08-11-2018, 08:39 PM
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I hope they keep the 9c because from what I hear the 3.6 wonít be offered with a 10+1 mag for a long time if ever.


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Old 08-12-2018, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by MichiganScott View Post
When attempting these sort of predictions, you have to take into account California's goofy laws. Each new variant must be tested by California before they will allow it to be sold in that state. I understand that to be a very costly proposition for the manufacturers. The molds have long since been paid for.
The M&P pistol line, with the exception of the "original" Shield, hasn't been approved for CA sale as a new gun for several years. As it was explained by someone from S&W (during an armorer class), there came a point when CA decided that the ongoing changes and improvements being incorporated into the existing M&P pistols essentially made them "new" models (which hadn't been tested by the state).

That being the case, they'd have to be submitted for testing and approval ... and that happened after the micro-stamping had taken effect (become certified in 2013), so they'd also have to meet that requirement. S&W was not willing to try and adopt micro-stamping technology.

So ... as the older M&P's in production were replaced with what CA felt were new models (meaning substantial improvements), and the original versions were replaced by the newer, refined models, the older M&P's dropped off the Roster at the expiration of the previous approval.

Fortunately, the new Shield 9/.40 and the SD 9/.40 had already been submitted and approved for CA Roster sale before the micro-stamping law took effect. They just slipped in under the wire, so to speak, about a year before the micro-stamping provision took effect.

Obviously, the new 2.0 Shield won't be added to the CA Roster because of the changes compared to the original Shield. However, as long as S&W is willing to continue making the original Shield, S&W can renew it (and the SD) each year on the Roster and CA buyers can get them.

Of course, LE still have the exemption from being required to buy their guns off the Roster ... and the state made a change to the Penal Code's exemption to add some more "types" of agencies with LE powers to the LE exemption.

I only glanced at the change adding those different types of agencies to the exemption earlier this year, but if I was reading it right (and the online chatter I read was accurate), legislators also added language preventing those agencies being added to the exemption status (and their employees who buy handguns using their new exemption) from ever selling any off-Roster duty guns to private citizens as "used" guns. This would mark a change from how the general classifications of peace officer have been able to sell their privately bought off-Roster handguns to non-LE buyers through FFL transfers.

It takes a scorecard and constant attention to keep up with how the firearms laws change in this state.
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Old 08-12-2018, 08:05 PM
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I just stopped by my local Cabelas. They had the original 9c and the new 2.0 compact 4" barrel. Side by side, the new compact is almost a totally different gun than the original 9c. The 9c had a clearance tag on it. The guy behind the counter said that meant that either Cabelas was not going to carry it anymore (just that store or all Cabelas??) or it wasn't being manufactured anymore. I've always really liked the original 9c. I might have to pull the trigger and get one before they are gone. Do you think S&W will continue to make the 1.0 9c?
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Old 08-13-2018, 07:35 AM
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Short grip double stack pistols are pretty popular. I would be surprised if S&W decides to make the 3.6 inch compact the smallest gun in the M&P line with a double stack magazine.

I wouldn't be surprised if they don't offer a direct replacement for the 1.0 9c though. The Sig P365 has shown that there is a lot of demand for double stack guns smaller than the 1.0 9c. They might try to trim down the design by making the slide thinner and/or shorter or maybe give up a couple of rounds to make the grip shorter.

S&W runs a tight ship when it comes to controlling rumors about upcoming products. I never hear anything except speculation about what they are planning until they announce the gun.
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Old 08-13-2018, 11:44 PM
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The frame is probably the cheapest major part and since they're already fully invested in the 3.6 Compact, it would be stupid not to produce an M&P 9/40c 2.0.
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Old 08-23-2018, 12:04 AM
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The 1.0 compact is selling for quite a bit more in my city. Hopefully, they will add a 2.0 or keep it since it still the best.
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Old 08-23-2018, 11:15 AM
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I'm still seeing M&P 1.0's selling for the same price I paid for my 2.0 Compact (flyer from CDNN today). We live in a world of mysteries.

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Old 08-30-2018, 07:54 AM
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Not sure what the future holds, as far as production. As far as my personal M&P9c (original), it's not going anywhere. It's the best shooting carry gun I have, and lives on my nightstand.
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Old 08-31-2018, 12:13 PM
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I'm still seeing M&P 1.0's selling for the same price I paid for my 2.0 Compact (flyer from CDNN today). We live in a world of mysteries.

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Why is this a mystery? They're still good guns.
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Old 09-02-2018, 07:39 PM
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S&W will phase out the 1.0 production if they haven’t already scaled back
the manufacture of the 40 variants. FWIW, I have a 1.0 9c that I’ve apex’d
W/ Trijicon NS’ that shoots and carries exceptionally well.
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Old 09-03-2018, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by MichiganScott View Post
When attempting these sort of predictions, you have to take into account California's goofy laws. Each new variant must be tested by California before they will allow it to be sold in that state. I understand that to be a very costly proposition for the manufacturers. The molds have long since been paid for.
Actually, this is no longer an issue. Smith & Wesson stopped selling M&P 9 and 40c's in CA. Maybe they felt that the number sold didn't justify the expense of "donating" three pistols and having to pay to have the testing done every time when they were about to go off the list.

I think this was part of California's intent all along.

Bill

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Old 09-03-2018, 03:28 PM
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Actually, this is no longer an issue. Smith & Wesson stopped selling M&P 9 and 40c's in CA. Maybe they felt that the number sold didn't justify the expense of "donating" three pistols and having to pay to have the testing done every time when they were about to go off the list.

I think this was part of California's intent all along.

Bill
That's not quite how it went here in CA regarding the M&P pistols, as it was explained to us in some armorer classes.

Submitting the exemplar pistols for testing and approval was done when new models were initially submitted to the state, but not just to keep already tested and approved pistols renewed to remain on the Roster. That only requires paying a fee to keep them renewed.

According to some folks at S&W, there came a point when the ongoing revisions to the original M&P pistol line was considered, by CA, to have resulted in a different enough pistol that it was considered a new model that would require it to be submitted for testing again.

Unfortunately, that was after the micro-stamping part of the earlier law had been put into effect, so the newest/current versions of the M&P's would have to meet the micro-stamping requirement in order to get put on the Roster.

S&W decided not to create new M&P's just to meet that CA requirement, and the older revisions of the earlier guns had already been replaced by the newer guns. This was before the 2.0 was even announced, which is a substantively revised design. The older "original" M&P's dropped off the Roster as their expiration date arrived on the Roster, and S&W had nothing to replace them.

Fortunately, for CA buyers, the original Shield 9/40 models (and the SD 9/40, if anyone's interested) had already been submitted and approved to be on the Roster prior to the micro-stamping law having been put into effect. S&W had already incorporated the newest revisions in the Shield and got it approved for the Roster just under the wire, so to speak, before the micro-stamping requirement was being implemented.

They can remain on the Roster as long as S&W decides to keep renewing them each year ... and doesn't make substantive changes to them, of course. Obviously, the Shield 2.0 won't ever be approved for non-LE sale in CA unless the company decides to start meeting the micro-stamping requirement (which is unlikely to ever happen, last I heard).

This means that new guns introduced by S&W, Ruger and Colt won't ever be available for sale in CA (expect for peace officers who are covered by the peace officer exemption).

You really want to see something really sad? Go to the Ruger website and find the link for the list of their California Approved revolvers, and try to find a Blackhawk or Vaquero listed. Sure, there's something like 50+ Ruger handguns listed as approved for sale on the Roster, but it doesn't include the iconic SA revolvers on which Ruger built its company. I should've bought some more of the ones that interested me before that happened. Sigh.
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Old 09-06-2018, 02:47 AM
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You really want to see something really sad? Go to the Ruger website and find the link for the list of their California Approved revolvers, and try to find a Blackhawk or Vaquero listed.
And you hopefully won't EVER find them on the "list" in CA because they are single action guns. Single action revolvers are exempt from the list.

The Blackhawk, Vaquero, Colt SAA and many other single action revolvers are plentiful in the gun stores.
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Old 09-06-2018, 01:09 PM
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And you hopefully won't EVER find them on the "list" in CA because they are single action guns. Single action revolvers are exempt from the list.

The Blackhawk, Vaquero, Colt SAA and many other single action revolvers are plentiful in the gun stores.
I just found this out the other day when I was asking a guy at a privately owned gun shop about the list on the Ruger website. I didn't see where Ruger had listed the SA exemption on their website, just their list of all of their handguns approved for sale in CA.

I was glad indeed to learn that the SA exemption I thought I'd remembered hadn't succumbed to the state's whims.
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Old 09-08-2018, 03:32 PM
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I hope they keep both - I like both of them!!! The 2.0 seems to be made to directly compete with the G19 while hte 1.0 was to counter a G26.

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Old 09-11-2018, 08:27 PM
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Why is this a mystery? They're still good guns.
Well, sure they're good. But who's passing on the new model with the improved trigger at the same price? I have to admit, I was waiting for that Glock 19 -sized M&P to come out and now that it's here, I love it. It doesn't hurt that I paid $360 shipped and then got that $50 rebate on top. I even modified some Safariland holsters with multicam so I could run it on my warbelt. It seems to fit the old 219 marked Safariland M&P holsters perfectly.

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