Earlier today I posed a theory that the gun never went into battery when that round went into the chamber. That’s a possibility, but here’s another one. The primer on that round was not fully seated, and it was further raised by that blob in the middle of it. As high as that primer was, it could have easily caused a slam-fire when it entered the chamber. I likely wouldn’t have noticed it, as the gun was in recoil from the previous round. But if you look at that round, there’s a definite pin hole in the middle of that blob, like it was struck by a firing pin. It wouldn’t have fired the round; the blob would’ve kept it from ever getting to the primer. That would explain why I felt nothing when I pulled the trigger on that round - the striker had already been released due to the slam-fire. Does that make sense to anyone besides me?

Hi-
Here is another possible theory.
That is not a "blob" of some foreign material on the primer you pictured. Take a look at the firing pin hole on your breach face, it is the exact same shape. I think it is primer flow back into the breach face from a squib load. If you pull the bullet I you my find no powder. The primer went off, did not unseat the bullet, but had enough force to cause primer flow-back and lock up your action.

This is the explanation that makes the most sense. The teardrop shaped bulge is much larger than the firing pin hole, but it would get that way as the case head was pushed away from the breech face. In my experience there is a threshold pressure level for primer cups to obturate against the primer pocket. Once this pressure level is reached the primer stays put and will not bulge out of the case head. They will flatten and cup material will flow around the firing pin, but not move out of the case. Low pressure is a different deal. The primer cup will move back, pushing the case further into the chamber. There is likely some slack to do this with SAAMI spec chambers and case length. When the primer moves back, the flat face of the primer can bulge or otherwise deform further, explaining the large teardrop shaped glob.

All this speculation could be easily ended with a disassembly of the faulty round. I'm betting that the bullet has chamber leade indentations or even rifling groove engravings. More telling, does the case have any powder? Will somebody donate a kinetic pullet puller to the OP?

These forensic discussions are fun and educational, sort of like the old column in Popular Mechanics where a car malfunction puzzle was posed to auto mechanics, or Car Talk's funny bit, Stump the Chumps.

Well, I gotta admit, that does make the most sense, more than some mysterious glob of something that got attached to the primer. There are no marks of any kind on the bullet that I can see, nor does my breech face show any similar-shaped marks around the firing pin hole.

Listen, if someone has the equipment and know how to do an autopsy on this round, I would be happy to donate it to science. That person would, of course, have to get back on here and let us know the findings. Any takers?

Okay, no takers, and that’s fine. I’ll just keep that round as a painful reminder to check all my primers before loading the gun.

Thanks to all of you who participated in this discussion; it was both fun and educational. You’ve been very kind to this newbie on the forum, and your contributions are greatly appreciated!

Larry,

Nobody knows everything about firearms and most of us learn something new each day (often thanks to another forum participant). For me, that's what makes this such a great hobby.

By the way, your "newbie" experience taught me a lesson. Thanks for sharing it.

If the mysterious glob is not foreign material, then primer flow-back perhaps due to blocked or lack of hole in the casing between primer pocket and casing barrel?

This possibility could be confirmed by an autopsy of the round in question. I could do it, but will be traveling for the next few weeks. If you can wait until late October, PM me for a shipping address. -S2

I have a bullet puller and can get the bullet out to see if there's any powder in there. Shoot me a PM if you want to send it to me.

__________________
Freedom isn't free.

Going to be a royal hassle to mail a potentially live round of ammo.

At least... to do it legally.

If it is a small shop take them a treat like a deli meat plate or a cheesecake. Trade there when you need stuff. Brag on the shop to your buddies. If you're in the store and it is full say nice things where other customers hear you. Shops like that are hard to find.

Good point.

Truthfully, you can just pull the bullet with a pair of pliers. It will have marks on it, but the only concern is whether or not there is powder in there.

Just grab the bullet with one pair of pliers and the case with another and pull. It will come apart pretty easily. The powder that spills out is harmless once it's out of the casing as is the primer.

__________________
Freedom isn't free.

I encountered a very similar situation at a local range maybe 10 years ago (if I haven't missed anything here).

A shooter was firing new, brand name 9MM rounds in an M&P semi. At some point the handgun got solidly locked up after he pulled the trigger. He thought it had fired (and IIRC it had spat something or another back in his face). However, a pencil down the barrel showed the bullet was still in the case.

After seriously wrestling with the slide for about 5 minutes, we finally muscled it back. The primer looked much like the one shown here.

I pulled the bullet and discovered there was no hole punched in the primer pocket to allow the primer flash to reach the powder. It appeared the punch that is used to make that hole had partly moved some brass and then broken before punching through. There was an unspent powder charge in the case.

Obviously, in this case the pressure from the unvented primer was enough to cause brass from the primer to flow into the firing pin hole, which caused the firearm to seize since the barrel couldn't drop down and unlock. I don't remember for sure if the primer had also backed out, though I think it did (which makes sense given the pressure involved).

Getting the firearm unlocked probably sheared much of the brass that had protruded into the firing pin hole.

I really wanted to keep the case, but when I asked the shooter if he wanted it, he said he did (and it was his, after all).

My guess in the OP's situation is possibly some debris or a part of the original primer had blocked the primer hole causing an identical situation.

Sadly, there is no way to identify this problem with new ammo other than shooting the round. For a while after that, I reloaded my own carry ammo so I could verify beforehand that it had the primer hole. I've become tired of doing that and now just take my chances with the factory stuff.

Still, that firearm was solidly locked up! In that situation the only real solution is a second firearm.

I'd really like to know if there's anything blocking the primer hole in the OP's case.

Well 199, it sounds like that could very well be what happened to me. Sadly, if that is the case - if the pressure did back the primer out a bit - it means that even careful examination of the round wouldn't have caught it. I'm going to trust that this would be very unlikely to happen with premium self-defense ammo, which is what I use when I'm carrying. With cheap range ammo, the odds of something like this happening are undoubtedly much greater.

I belong to a gun club, and there are bunch of guys there that are heavily into reloading. I'll keep this round in my range bag and one day I'll run into someone who would be willing to do an autopsy. Since you've seen this before though, I'd bet even money that's exactly what happened in my case...

The Shield being DAO has repeat strike capblity because the trigger cocks the striker and lets it go.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

199's theory sounds good.
I have another.
What if it is a reloaded case, and in the process of reloading, the primer didn't punch out - just got deformed to where the center stuck out a ways, then when it went through the priming step, the deformation got partially flattened out - leaving the raised area seen in the photo.
Just another theory.

Great!!

After literally writing a book (above), I notice that Speedo2 covered the issue earlier in one sentence.

Apologies to him.

And just about any reloader should have a bullet puller to pull the round apart. Tracking down anything blocking the flash hole will take some care since removing a spent primer generally involves sending a punch down that hole.

True enough, however once the bullet and powder are removed a good bright light will reveal whether there is a flash hole. If that's absent, you've found the likely cause and that primer can't be punched out anyway.

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I need ammo, not a ride.

Since the primer in that round is now raised a bit, would it be possible to pry it out from the top instead of poking something through the hole in the casing? If you could pry it out from the top, exposing the primer pocket, couldn’t you easily tell if the flash hole is either blocked or nonexistent? Or when the primer went off, would it have plugged that hole up anyway? Sorry if that sounds like a dumb question; I’m just thinking out loud. I really like that theory; it makes more sense to me than anything else we’ve discussed...

I agree. See post #29

To oink and BC38...the box that round came from is labeled “NEW” - how could Freedom Munitions call their ammo NEW if they’re using reloaded cases? What part of NEW am I not understanding?

OP,
Not a brand I'd buy but a cheap enough option for a one time use to pull that bullet and be able to look inside the cartridge case:
Amazon Prime $10.79 Redneck Convent Impact Bullet Puller Tool ASIN: B073X55B68

LOL, I thought I had read every post, but it appears I missed one. Looks like we both came up with the same theory.

Were all rounds in that box the same head-stamp?
My thought would be that either a batch of remans got mistakenly loaded into boxes marked as new ammo - or at least a few reman rounds got mixed in with some new ammo. I know they manufacture both new and reman at their plant in Lewiston Idaho.

Admittedly I may have missed things since this is a long, though interesting, thread.

But I believe this was a reloaded case (marked "IMI" I think).

If it was, then the case presumably had a flash hole to begin with.

A bit of debris, say a small piece of the original primer's anvil, blocking the hole would still be my guess.

Ultimately though, a cartridge autopsy by a careful person is needed.

Yeah, when I saw the IMI head stamp I "assumed" it was reloaded. But I suppose IMI could be selling bulk brass too???

Edit to add: Well bulk unprimed IMI brass is easily available although I didn't see any 9mm.

Awaiting the autopsy report on the round in question.

Look, every round in that box - every “New” round I’ve ever bought from Freedom - is exactly the same: a shiny, new-looking case with exactly the same IMI head stamp. Even Freedom Munitions is not going to call ammo “New” and use old cases; that would be blatant false advertising. Let’s stick to theories that assume the case is new, as I have no doubt that’s what it is.

IMI stands for Israel Military Industries and has been around a long time; their brass is well-respected from all accounts I’ve read. They make their own brand of ammo, but I’m sure companies like Freedom can buy their new brass as well...

That would all be correct if this were a perfect world, but we all know it isn't. Nobody is accusing them of anything underhanded, the assumption is that possibly a mistake was made,because, you know. mistakes do happen.

When you say "exactly the same headstamp" do you mean the same IMI headstamp as pictured in the photo posted by the OP?

I just checked my last shipment of new 9 mm from Freedom Munitions. It is not head stamped with FM's normal stamp. They may be buying brass to keep going. They are in bankruptcy.

I have no doubt that this is new ammo since all 1000 rounds has the head stamp.

BC38, I am the OP...and yes, that IMI head stamp you see in the photo is exactly the same as every round of “New” ammo I received from Freedom in my last 1,000-round purchase. Do I need to take a photo of the rest of the rounds in that box? It’s still half full, and I can do that if anyone insists. Trust me, every case looks the same with the exact same head stamp...

Okay guys, after lunch today I sat down with a pair of pliers and managed to pull the bullet. Took me awhile, but I got it out. The case was full of unspent powder, so that was not the problem.

Now, here’s where I’m not sure what I’m looking for. When I look into the case with a flashlight, all I see is solid brass. There is no hole at all, not even a tiny one. There is an indentation in the center indicating it may have been hit with a punch, but it didn’t go all the way through. There is no hole there, which tells me there is no way the primer flash could could have reached the powder.

To me this lends credence to the theory posed by Speedo2 and 199...the lack of a flash hole prevented the round from firing and caused primer flowback and case expansion that locked up the action.

If I’m missing something by all means let me know, but it looks to me like the mystery is finally solved!

That sounds like the issue.

What you should see is this:


Note how the primer hole can clearly be seen. These are .45 cases, but the 9mm will look exactly the same. If you don't see the hole, this was the issue. The primer went off, but the energy had nowhere to go so it just expanded the case in the chamber enough to jam it in the gun.

__________________
Freedom isn't free.

Thanks Rastoff, that confirms it. Rather than a hole like I see in your cases, this one just has an indentation where a punch or drill hit it but didn’t penetrate the brass. And unlike yours, this case is very clean indicating that it is indeed a new case (see attached thumbnail photo).

Man, it seems like with the millions of cases that are produced you’d see a defect like this more often, doesn’t it?

Anyway, thanks again to all of you who participated in this discussion, and hat’s off to Speedo2 and 199 for nailing it. For me this has been a fun and very educational experience, and I hope others have learned something as well...

Attached Images

DSCN1158.jpg (52.2 KB, 88 views)

Was the ammo purchased new by the OP from Freedom Munitions? Or did the OP purchase what he thought was a new box of Freedom Munitions from someone else?

Because that round in the photo is not a new round from Freedom Munitions. That looks like a Winchester NATO headstamp. It's definitely a NATO headstamp. And the primer looks like it was fired.

Glad to see the mystery solved.
Clearly this isn't a fault to be blamed on Freedom Munitions - since the brass was manufactured by someone else.
Unless someone thinks that ammo manufacturers should (and are) inspecting brass for fully drilled flash holes

Yeah, I’ll give Freedom Munitions a pass on this one; it’s not their fault the case was defective.

And that case is most definitely from IMI. Maybe you can’t see it clearly in my earlier photo, but is clearly stamped IMI with a small trademark or something on either side. Like this:

* I M I *

This round came from a 1,000-round purchase I made from Freedom about a year ago. Sorry RGV, but it is definitely a new round that came to me directly from Freedom Munitions...

Is it possible that freedom buys brass in bulk from anyone who has the cheapest price. So they bought brass from IMI in this instance?

It would be reasonable that IMI would make NATO rounds.

Assuming Freedom bought bulk brass, would the brass come with primers already installed, or would freedom also buy bulk lrimers and install the primers as part of the ammo manufacturing process?

In either situation, it is absolutely clear that this was a primer failure from whoever manufactured the PRIMER! Period!

You might want to re-read posts 81 and 84 above.
It was a piece of defective brass that caused the issue.

No, that case is clearly marked "IMT", not "IMI". I'm not an expert but, since new to reloading I've been researching for weeks and have brass on the brain. So, what I do know is that IMI (Isreal Military Industries) is good stuff. IMT is Turkish, and considered **** by most reloaders. That step inside the case reduces its volume by 9% and one reason most toss it in the scrap bin.

Larry1945,

Thanks for the autopsy report. Mystery solved! Clearly a defective casing.

Things have obviously changed with IMI. In the past it was kind of rare to see IMI brass on the range and it was usually from someone who had gotten hold of some surplus ammo. It appears they sell lots of their brass in all kinds of flavors now days. Good for them.

Good catch!

Yeah, good catch. I wasn't familiar with the IMT brand but according to a little google search it's not well thought of. It also appears Freedom has been using it for a good while.

Wow, good catch is right. I put that round under good light with a magnifying glass and sure enough, the stamp says “IMT.” I Googled it and right away found some negative discussions regarding Freedom Munitions and IMT brass.

I take back my free pass to Freedom Munitions; they can use whatever brass they want but they’re not getting any more business from me...

I'm not a reloader, but zooming into the image and adjusting contrast, could that be the face of the primer, and not the base of the shell?

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I dunno, it looks just like the rest of the brass inside that case to me. Doesn’t a primer have some kind of open bottom to allow the flash to go through the flash hole and into the case? All I see here is a bulge in the brass where the hole should be, which you would expect if the primer fired and the flash had nowhere to go. That’s what happened with this round - with no flash hole in the case, the primer’s attempt to fire resulted in a tremendous amount of backflow pressure that expanded the case. The end result was a jammed gun that took a few hard blows with a nylon hammer to clear...

That's certainly odd looking. None of the primers I have, Winchester, CCI and Remington, look anything like that on the flash hole side. Now, take a look at this link about an issue with Freedom Munitions from a while back, specifically the picture of the primer. It appears to be silver on the outside and brass where it makes its turn into the primer pocket. Maybe a hybrid primer of sorts?
Product Issue: Freedom Munitions 124-grain 9mm FMJ – Handgun Planet

Attached Images

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Hahahaha at the linked reviews. The first review makes all kinds of notes that share the idea that the author "feels bad" for his 4-year old honest review and pushes links to a 2-year old follow-up review, both are laced with apologies and excuses and that last entry with the 2-year old positive review thanks Freedom for the "ammunition sample" they sent so he could review it.

At this point, anyone who reads any of the real experiences with Freedom Munitions, including this one and any of the dozen I have posted in and STILL makes excuses for this ammo and still trots out their "well all the stuff I bought went bang" and they still think this stuff is a fine buy and a good risk?

Well they absolutely deserve what they get.

Some good deals are better than others and there ain't no free lunch. For the good of shooters, bystanders and guns, I hope all the Freedom Munitions "after action reports" are all historical conversion and SOON. The sooner these guys turn the lights off for the last time, the better.

Meanwhile, for the true believers, please, buy all you can.

Alas, it does not.

First off the cleanliness is irrelevant. Cases can be cleaned. My picture is of fired casings that haven't been cleaned yet. Once they are cleaned, they look new, sometimes even better than new. There is definitely a flash hole in that case as thewittmp has shown. It does seem to be blocked though.

I have another theory...

Here is what an unfired primer looks like from the business end:


That pinwheel shaped thing is the anvil.

The way a primer works is the back of the primer is crushed/dented by the firing pin. As the primer case crushes, the primer explosive is sandwiched between the back of the case and the anvil. It's being sandwiched, sharply, that makes the primer explode. Without the anvil the primer would never fire.

Here's a pretty good vid of how the cartridge works (go to 1:35 to see the action):
YouTube

I have seen the anvil fall out of primers before. It's possible that the anvil got turned around in the round you had and plugged the flash hole in the case. That seems unlikely, but it can happen.

What we really need now is to push that primer out and see what it looks like out of the case.

__________________
Freedom isn't free.

Well Rastoff, that may be a valid theory, but we’re never gonna know for sure. I put that case inside a 7/16” socket, placed the socket on a 2x4 and went at the “hole” with a hammer and punch. I couldn’t get through it. The case is now mutilated, and even after the beating it took there is still no flash hole and the primer hasn’t budged. All there is where that hole should be is mangled brass from the punch trying to get through it. I don’t have a sledgehammer, but I beat on it relentlessly with a heavy claw hammer to no avail.

I’m going to write this off as a defective case with no flash hole and leave it at that. I know now what caused my gun to jam; to go any further would only serve to satisfy a curiosity that I don’t have. If anyone wants that beat up case, you’re welcome to it.

Thanks again everyone; this was great fun but it’s time to move on...

I have seen an occasional factory load where a portion of the case mouth folded back on itself causing a slight bulge. This round will partially chamber but usually then gets wedged and can't be extracted.

One method I've used is as follows: drill a hole in a piece of 2X4 large enough to clear the exterior diameter of the barrel. Align the barrel over this drilled hole, then press hard on the gun to push the slide back. I've only done this a few times but it works every time.

Yeah, it's all good Larry1945, stuff happens. I'm not convinced that even if we got the primer out we would be any smarter about this. It's enough to know that no one got hurt, the gun is fine and you're still happy with the gun.

__________________
Freedom isn't free.

I don't believe that is correct. Could you be talking about the .380 EZ? I know it is hammer vs. striker - haven't played around with it enough to know one way or the other.