Hey guys - first post here, and I'm hoping someone can help me with an M&P Shield 9mm problem. I was at the range today, and the last round of a magazine failed to fire. I don't think it was a misfire; if I remember right the trigger was just mush when I tried to fire that last round. While still at the range I tried several times to fire it with no success. The problem now is, I cannot rack the slide back from its closed position. I've tried it with and without a magazine, with and without rounds in the magazine, with the safety on and off, every combination I can think of. The slide isn't just stuck; it is absolutely locked in the closed position. When I try to rack it, it has about 1/8" of play with a noticeable "click" in both directions. Trying to force the slide back doesn't work; it is firmly locked in place with a live round in the chamber. If anyone has an idea what the problem might be, I would be most appreciative. Thanks in advance for your help...

Without seeing it I have no ideas. Sorry I cannot help. I will say this:
You've hinted but not come right out and said it: The striker may be cocked! Thus the gun could fire. We transport guns in cases and the gun inside the case points in all different directions. Your gun needs to stay where it is or be transported in a very thick metal case, with the case backed up by a bag of sand or gravel. I expect you know that already but I won't assume it. That gun could fire at any time. Another option would be laying flat on a thick metal plate and surrounded by bags of sand. But the right answer is to fix it where it is, while it points at a dirt pile, or a Steep hill, or a bucket of sand. Safety glasses are in order.

I had this happen on a 1911 once. I followed the loading data including the cartridge OAL, but the bullet, though the right weight and nominal shape, had a broader nose than the one used to develop the recipe (obvious in hind sight). It hit something on the way into the chamber and got pushed slightly off kilter and then jammed. The slide was not 100% forward. Locked up just like you said. The solution was for force the slide completely home. It took a lot of muscle.

Check the small spring imbedded in the lower portion of the steel guide rail part in the polymer frame of your S&W Shield. It is just to the upper right of the take down lever. If this spring works loose, it may lock up the slide. The spring should be black, indicating that it is NOT touching the slide, as ones that are touching the slide will be shiny. This spring is visible even when the slide is on the frame.

Man, for the life of me I cannot see a spring of any kind near the takedown lever. I examined it closely with a flashlight and can't see anything that looks like a spring. I do see what looks like an imbedded black strip of something in the notch just above the takedown lever - it doesn't look like a spring, but maybe that's what it is. Anyway, it's black and doesn't appear to be out of place at all...

What Fulton722 said is correct,but it is not a spring with coils. It’s a bar spring that fits into a slot on the frame.
You should be able to see the slot. What has happened to some guns is the spring is not completely pushed into the slot and the bar spring pops out and prevents the slide from going back.

There is a post that goes into this in great detail with pictures on this forum.
1. Go to Forum Search. Touch “search” top bar above community on home forum page.
2. Enter: Shield slide won’t go back.
3. It’s the third post down. “Fix your Shield before it Fails” Dated Oct 23,2017 *144 Post *9274 Views.

Treat this gun as if it could go off at any time. I am no gunsmith but Pondoro has a good point. It is possible the striker is resting on the primer and the gun could discharge.

Doesn’t help you now,but if I get a round that doesn’t go bang I give it one more try and them it is disposed of properly. JMO

BE CAREFULL!

Thanks Execpro, but I really don't think that spring is the problem. I can see it pretty clearly, and it appears to be fully seated in its groove like it's supposed to. I don't know what the problem is; this is a new one on me. It fed the last round in the mag just fine and the slide fully closed on it, so at that point the gun should be cocked. But when I pulled the trigger, nothing...just like when you pull the trigger with the chamber empty after a dry fire. It's the same thing the trigger does before you rack the slide and re-cock the gun. But you're right about the safety issue - I think the gun is cocked with a live round in the chamber, and right now there is no way to uncock it or rack the slide to remove the round. There's a S&W armorer in a local indoor range here; I'm going to take it in Wednesday and have him take a look at it.

For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure this is not an ammo problem. I shoot new ammo (not reman) from Freedom Munitions and I've never had a problem with it in this gun.

Please let us know what you or the Armorer finds out....good luck and Thanks!

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CERAKOTE Svcs.
Class 01 FFL

This is a picture of 2 springs side by side. One spring is fully seated and flush to the face and the other is proud of flush.



My Shield Recoil Spring Assembly (RSA) failed, with the end of the spring slipping over the spring seat and jamming the slide tight. Took a smith to get it free.


Good Luck.

Thanks guys - again, that spring looks fully seated to me, but I'm certainly no expert. I'll let the armorer take a look at it and let you know what I find out...

Just make sure the first words out of your mouth to that nice armorer fella' are "There's a live round in the chamber . . . "

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Yeah, they've already told me that when I get there tomorrow, do NOT bring the gun into the range. I'm supposed to leave it in my truck, go in and ask for James, and he will come out to my truck and get the gun. You can't be too careful, for sure...

You are in for a very rude awakening if you start to search for folks that have had problems with Freedom Munitions ammo. It's not good, not at all.

I haven't yet heard the suggestion to try and pull the extractor hook off the case rim and see if that doesn't allow you to draw the slide back.

If that works, then prop open the action with an appropriate size piece of wood and insert a rod down the muzzle and carefully tap tap tap that junk ammo rearward out of the chamber

Okay, how do I pry the extractor hook off the case rim with the slide locked in a closed position? That makes sense, but how do I do it without major damage to the extractor?

You don't because that's not the problem. And that's not how you correct this...

I'm willing to bet that if there is indeed a live round in the chamber then it's possible that what the problem is a round with too much crimp is jammed in the chamber. You're going to have to muscle that slide back.. Put some elbow grease in there and give it a couple very sharp tugs rearward. OR place the muzzle down against a wood table edge (finger off trigger obviously) and press firmly down on the grip.
If the trigger feels mushy, what happened is you may have pulled the trigger when the slide was not fully in battery, releasing the firing pin but since the slide is stuck the trigger did not reset. Just place the muzzle edge down on the end of a table and press down hard. Give it a couple good pushes and I'll bet the slide will go back ejecting that bad round... It's not Freedom munitions, that could happen with any brand. But mostly with reloads with what I've seen.

I have seen these before with somes guys that reload that have a batch of reloads with too much crimp.

-IF- the problem is junk ammo stuck in the chamber (and without the pistol in front of me, I cannot be sure) then the spring loaded extractor should not be all to difficult to get off the case rim... it is a lever, putting direct pressure on the far back end of it should lever up the front end of it, and allow it to be free of the case rim.

I have tried repeatedly to muscle the slide with no success. Like I said earlier, the slide isn't just stuck, it feels locked. When I try to rack the slide, or push down on the grip with the muzzle on a table, there is an audible "click" after the 1/16" or so of play is taken up. The feeling is like you would get if you pulled on a locked padlock - there is a bit of play, but when that play is taken up you know it's not going any farther. I've tried racking it a couple hundred times with as much muscle as I can muster, pushed down with a ton of my weight with the barrel resting on a countertop...nothing. That puppy hasn't even moved. I'll let the S&W armorer look at it tomorrow and see if he can do something with it...

Okay Sevens, I was able to press down on the back end of the extractor lever with a Torx screwdriver and raise up the hook on the front end, but that's with the gun laying flat on a table. I live alone, so without a vise or another pair of hands I can't do anything but press down on that extractor. I need someone to pull back on the slide while that extractor hook is raised up. I'll take it in to the armorer tomorrow and between us, I'm sure we can get it figured out. I'm really curious now if it's a bad round or if it's something more serious. I'll let you know...

Sounds like you've cautiously done all the right stuff. Please let us know the results, I'm very interested.

Okay, I have my Shield back with no harm done. Turns out it was an ammo problem, a terrible round, courtesy of Freedom Munitions. I've included a photo of that round; if you enlarge it you can see the problem. For one thing, the primer is not fully seated - it's not flush to the case rim. Even worse, there is a small blob of what looks like solder right in the middle of the primer. The armorer wasn't sure what happened; he said he’d never seen a round that looked like that after clearing a jam. Whatever it was, it completely locked up the action and rendered the slide inoperable.

He cleared it by standing the gun up with the barrel on the edge of his workbench, then hitting the back of the gun hard - really hard - with a big nylon hammer. It took two or three good whacks to break it loose. I tried that at home, but I don't have a nylon hammer that big and I just couldn't apply enough force to it. It took him all of about 5 minutes and he didn't charge me a dime. He looked at that round and just shook his head and laughed. I took six rounds of ammo with me so he could test fire the gun after clearing it, and they sailed through with no problems.

I've learned a couple of things from this experience: One, that's it for Freedom Munitions. If their quality control can't catch a round like that, I'm done with them. And two, I'm going to eyeball every round I load before it goes in the magazine. No more trusting factory ammo, from anyone.

So that's it guys; thanks to those of you who followed me along on this adventure and gave me your thoughts. I'm a couple of days older and a whole lot wiser than I was before this happened...

Attached Images

DSCN1156.jpg (51.5 KB, 722 views)

It's worth saying and making a very clear distinction-- the ammo you were using is often termed "factory re-man", or remanufactured ammo. AKA "factory reloads."

It is used brass. It is reloads. It is similar to what a hobbyist handloader such as myself does EXCEPT these fools do it poorly, at high volume, with awful quality control, and they do for profit.

Freedom Munitions is low quality, questionable cheap ammo with a laundry list of documented problems, failures and incidents. They are currently in the process of bankruptcy.

There is no free lunch. There can be decent factory re-man (Black Hills built their company from the ground up, day one, by making and selling decent factory re-man) and currently, there are other re-man options that don't have the junk reputation that Freedom Munitions has.

It's my firm belief that the road to nirvana comes from learning how to handload yourself and carrying the burden of 100% of the QC.

Was the round in question re-man or new. Freedom Munitions sells both and do you happen to have the lot number from the box? I have some new in stock and plan to check each one.

This round came from a box labeled “9mm 115 Gr RN, New - 50 rds.” The numbers below the bar code are 50016 00404, and below that are the numbers 5523-4893-62.

When I order “New” ammo I expect everything about it to be new, including the brass. The case isn’t the problem here, nor is the seating of the bullet. This is nothing but piss-poor quality control, both in the primer and the seating thereof and in the final product...

I agree that they should have caught this in final but it looks like a primer issue actually caused it. Probably could have happened with any brand of ammo that isn't hand inspected. I hand inspect all my carry ammo and will start checking the range stuff much closer. Thanks for posting

But the brass is headstamped IMI. That indicates a reused case, not a new case.

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Or something like that . . .

You need one of these:

Dead Blow Hammer - 4 Lb. Neon Orange



$8 with a coupon and sometimes on sale at that price. Works well with muzzleloaders and while working on cars too.

A human eye does not inspect every round that comes out of the loader. Every ammo maker has bad rounds get by and out to the end user. I've shot a ton of Freedom NEW 40 ammo and never a problem and will continue shooting it.

I consider a protruding primer a risk of a slam fire. There should be a 100% inspection of some type: either a fail safe installation (primer seating ram must seat against the case or the machine stops), an error proofing step (primed case can get stuck in some area based on the primer sticking out and making it too long) or an inspection (could be machine performing the inspection).

put the frame of the gun into a padded vise. Make sure the gun is pointed in a safe direction. Make sure that the slide is not being held in the vise. Get a sturdy dowel that is long enough to keep your hands out of the line of fire, that is big enough to catch the front of the slide right next to the barrel. DO NOT hit the front of the barrel, only the slide. I've used the handle of a wire brush before to good effect and the bend keeps my hands out of the line of fire.

With a rubber mallet hit the dowel end so that the slide is driven back. AGAIN, keep your hands out of the line of fire and wear safety equipment.

Start out easy and tap the dowel with the rubber mallet and repeat a few times. If the slide doesn't come loose, hit it little harder a few times. Keep increasing the force of the mallet and within a few minutes you will notice the slide move back and try to close. It shouldn't close so hard that you can't eject the problem round.

If not in the vise I hold the top of the slide getting as much of my left hand on it that I can. I make a 'V' of my thumb and fingers of my right hand and hit the back of grip as high on the grip as I can, with the 'V' of my hand. If that doesn't do it, the vise is the best way.

I had a problem reloading with some hinky bullets in 9mm that needed a really short OAL, consequently, I got cartridges stuck in several guns before I figured out what the problem was. I've used these two methods to clear several guns. If the bullet is really stuck in the lands ahead of the chamber (9mm compacts have really short chambers) when I get the slide open, sometimes it would actually pull the bullet. Be sure to check your barrel to make sure a bullet isn't stuck in there.

Since the DAO Shield is made to reset the striker after each trigger pull, I DOUBT that the striker is against the primer. Don't take chances however. The gun could still go off.

Doing this with a single action pistol may be asking for an unwanted discharge.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I try to always inspect my ammo but I'm sure there have been plenty of times I haven't. During a short period when I was carrying a G21 and the Dept was supplying really junk ammo for practice and qualifications I would field strip my gun and drop every round I was going to use in the barrel to check fit and otherwise inspect.

Looking at the picture of round that jammed the OP's gun I'm going to say it's a reload for sure and it looks from the picture like the original primer wasn't fully punched out but got dimpled and partially punched out in the attempt. It then continued through the loading process with the partially punched spent primer receiving more abuse and wear. A fairly cursory inspection should have picked it up.

It is always a good idea to inspect your ammo before you load your guns.
I have fired thousands of rounds over the last 50+ years and about 30 years ago I was on a hunting trip and was loading a semi-auto rife with Remington hunting ammo and had a slam fire when putting a round in the chamber.
It scared the —— out of me! It’s a good thing I followed all the safety rules. Gun pointed away from everyone and Pointed at the ground at a 45 degree angle away from rocks etc.. That morning hunt was over before it started,but I did kill a good piece of dirt!
When I got home to the rifle range I fired the rest of the 2 boxes I bought for the hunt without incident.
Since then I check my ammo!
It’s also VERY important to check your gun to be sure it is functioning correctly( firing pin not protruding ect.).
Glade everything worked out for you!

Be SAFE and Shoot Often!

I've been following this, from the beginning, anxious for the final episode. I have never bought Freedom ammo so I have no dog in this hunt.

It seems to me there is reason to be suspicious of Freedom's quality control, particularly in light of other reports. Is it the case that this story should be reposted so as to bring it to the attention of more forum members? Perhaps under a title like, "What can happen if you don't check 'factory' ammo".

Glad you worked that out. I've been buying 9mm "new" ammo from Freedom for about a year. 9 and .380 are the only centerfield calibers I own for which I don't load my own. The stuff has been good to me. I started using it on the recommendation of a friend who had sworn off Remington after buying multiple boxes with extreme variations in seating depth within each box. My "never again" brand is S&B due to dud primers. Internet searches tend toward the dissatisfied customer. When was the last time any of us started a thread praising a product?

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I need ammo, not a ride.

Jeppo makes a good point - if you guys think it’s appropriate, I’d be happy to submit a “What can happen...” post with a brief account of what happened and a photo of the round. I too think as many shooters as possible should see this and know what happens if you don’t catch a defective round like this one before feeding it to your gun. Let me know...

My vote is the only opinion about appropriateness that counts is yours. I found it extremely beneficial to follow your story and perhaps others could too. If you post it with a more "broadly" appealing title, members can click or not.

One of my habits when I open a box of pistol ammo is to run my hand over all 50 rounds while they are in the plastic holder. I'm feeling for a raised primer. It will quickly catch your attention sticking up when the other 49 are smooth. This is a much better technique for me to use than looking at them, where I might not notice it.

Just fyi.....

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GO NAVY!

I agree with Munster...yesterday for fun I opened a new box of ammo and replaced one round with this bad one. Without looking, I ran my thumb over all the rounds and found this one in a heartbeat. That will now be S.O.P for me with every box of ammo I open...

Larry1945, I am pleased that you were able to retrieve that live round without a tragedy. Your prudence and thoughtful actions are to be commended.

I have read the many comments about the poor quality of Freedom Ammunition in this tread. Fortunately, I have not encountered a bad round in the multiple-thousands of NEW 9mm, .40 and .45 ammunition that I have purchased from Freedom. All loaded, fired and ejected without failure. I do not attribute this good fortune to simply good luck.

I spend the extra money on NEW rather than re-manufactured ammo at a lesser cost. Why jeopardize myself or others for a few cents?

Thank you for posting this subject. It is both a refresher and a warning about the possible fatality when handling firearms.

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EDC's: Shield9 & M2.0 Compact

I read through this post several times trying to understand the final disposition and am still frustrated. The OP says he tried several times to fire the dud round. Was he able to rack the slide to re-cock the striker or did he merely pull on a dead trigger? Now that he has the bad round out of the gun and can see the mess on the primer, is in fact the primer live or dead? That's important because if the primer is dead it is either from the original round and was failed to be punched out, or it was a defective new primer. It would be relatively easy to see if the round was disassembled. One way it was Freedom's fault, and the other way it was the primer vendor's. The teardrop shaped indentation on the primer looks like that from a fired round, indicating that the original primer was left partially in the case, explaining its protrusion. Such a round would wedge tightly between breech face and barrel. If this ever happens to me I'll try gently tapping down on the barrel block with the piece aimed in a safe direction. Much more mechanical advantage on that stuck round than trying to cam the barrel down with the locking lug cam. I would also wonder if the firing pin/striker assembly is in good order with a good return spring in a clean hole in the slide. Were it not, and protruding above the breech face, this kind of thing could happen.

I wish I knew what went wrong. Frustrating.

I have been using Freedom Munitions 9mm and .380 for a couple years and haven't had a bad round. I'll be sure to inspect each order but I intend to keep using it. I only buy new and I trust it. I hope they manage to sort out their financial issues.

Larry, glad that you and the Shield are Ok.

I've had stuck re-roads (due to excessive COL), but have never seen a primer with that weird glob on it. Your photo suggests that it may be some foreign material that somehow got stuck to the primer face. If so, the question is: where did it come from? Have you inspected your slide's breech face? Also, any chance of debris entering the magazine?

I suppose it's possible that the mysterious primer glob caused the slide to jamb the round into the barrel chamber, perhaps engaging the bullet into the rifling. From my experience with excessing COL, the resulting slide jamb can be difficult, but not impossible to release by pushing the slide front (not the barrel) against a wooden bench top. However, your description of what you and the courageous gunsmith went through to release your slide suggests that it was more than just bullet-engaged rifling.

I would like to suggest an autopsy of that defective, globbed-up and remanufactured Freedom Arms round. Send it someone with a kinetic puller and then punch out its primer to see what's in the primer pocket. Please report back any findings. Also, thanks for posting this; it's been very interesting. -S2

According to the OP this was a NEW round from Freedom Munitions

Yes, this round came from a box of “NEW” 9mm ammo from Freedom. That teardrop-looking thing on the primer is not an indentation - it’s a blob of something that looks for all the world like solder. Which begs the question, what role could solder possibly have in any part of the manufacturing process?

As far as exactly what happened when I first pulled the trigger on that round, I can’t swear to anything. It was the last round in the clip, and I don’t remember feeling or hearing a click, like it was a misfire. I think when I pulled the trigger there was just...nothing. I immediately tried to rack the slide, it wouldn’t budge, and the rest is history.

I’m no gunsmith, nor do I have in-depth knowledge of how a striker-fired handgun works. I’d like to know as much as anyone exactly what happened when the slide rammed that round home with a raised primer and a blob of something on top of it. All I know is that it locked up the slide and took a few hard whacks with a big nylon hammer to break it loose. If someone can fill in the blanks, I’d be as interested as anyone.

I do have a theory...I don’t think the gun ever got into battery with that round in the chamber. I think that’s why I got nothing when I pulled the trigger, and why the armorer wasn’t at all afraid of the gun after testing the slide himself and pulling the trigger. I think he knew it was out-of-battery and wasn’t afraid to just beat on it with a hammer to break the slide loose. That’s what I think...

This why I put every round I reload into the box with the bullet down and the primer up. When the box is full I inspect every primer. I see guys at our range with the bullet up and ask them why? They say it's just the way they do it. Go figure. As I insert the round into the magazine or clip or even single load when in slow fire I give another inspection of the entire round before inserting. And yes, I have caught some high primers, very rarely, but they can happen.

An "Armorer" or smith that does a free service should have at least a $10 bill stuffed into his shirt pocket, and insist on it. That should buy him lunch.....I'm sure it was worth at least that to get you and your gun "whole" again.........

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CERAKOTE Svcs.
Class 01 FFL

Look at your breech face. The "teardrop" is a result of firing a round. Glocks are square, other handguns have distinctive marks.

I'm not saying you didn't have an ammo failure, but I've shot 1000's of rounds of 9mm, .45, .38 sp and .357m from FM without issue.

Jim, the armorer in question works at the range where I bought the gun. He’s new, but the range owner is still the same and knows I’ve bought three guns from them. He wouldn’t take any money; I tried but he refused...

It's not a bad idea. The problem with "What can happen" posts is that 80% of the responses tend to be, "Only an idiot would let that happen." I personally embrace the fact that I can make mistakes, and I like hearing what can go wrong as a warning to help me catch problems - whether caused by gun, ammo, me or Mr. Murphy. But I promise, people will chime in saying, "That could never happen to me!"

And there are the others that are too embarrassed to admit to falling prey to those circumstances......and there are lots of them. (us) Only human, huh?

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CERAKOTE Svcs.
Class 01 FFL

Right on!!

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CERAKOTE Svcs.
Class 01 FFL

Question:

Other than brand new brass versus a once (or more) fired brass. In a factory setting; the bullet, powder and primer are all new. Whether the casing being loaded is new or “remanufactured.”

I would have to assume that the used brass must go through some sort of check for max OAL.

So really why all this angst over the new versus remanufactured?

Especially in this case where the issue appears to be a messed up primer. Which could have gone into a new or prefired brass case.

I would agree we would all hope quality control finds 100% of every defect every time. But we all also know that perfection is impossible despite best attempts at striving to achieve it.