S&W Shield 2.0 9mm vs. Sig Sauer P365, I have owned both!


I previously owned a Sig Sauer P365 and found the weapon to be Not Ready for Prime Time. The pistol never fit my hand correctly and naturally pointed correctly, unless I had the 12 round magazine in it.

The still numerous problems unanswered by Sig, , ie broken strikers, broken trigger springs, severe primer strike drag, questioned it's reliability, despite numerous anecdotal assertions from others and mine going through 500 hiccup free rounds.

Was it still a ticking time bomb?

MAC Channel has bought three separate P365s and each one of them a clunker. And this guy actually purchases them of the shelf from gun stores, not using the finely tuned demos sent by Sig and routinely used by the popular Youtube reviewers.

I sold mine because even with a born date of 28 June 2018, it still had severe, very severe striker drag on the primer.

My P365 striker dragged casing next to a case from my G42, showing no striker drag at all!



Spent casing from my S&W Shield 2.0 once again showing ZERO striker drag, dispelling the Sig Fanboy’s assertion that all subcompact pistols have Striker drag, to take the heat off of the P365



This weapon also lacks the integrated green laser, which is a real plus for the 2.0


Sig P365 with 12 Round Mag




S&W Shield 2.0 with integrated Green Laser with Magguts 9+1 installed.




With the Magguts 9+1 flush fit in the weapon you are only giving up 1 round of ammo and still having the concealability , and even a better purchase on the weapon then the flush fit or pinky extension on the P365 mag. The Trigger on the 2.0 is smoother and has a cleaner break then the P365, and with the integrated Green Laser make it infinitely more accurate as well. The felt recoil and shootability of the 2.0 is superior to the P365 as well.

If I needed a 12 round Magazine in a concealed pistol that bad, I would carry my Taurus G2, which fits my hand better then the P365 and has Zero striker and trigger spring problems.

S&W should investigate putting Magguts type springs into their stock magazines, for me this cancels out almost every imagined advantage the P365 supposedly has over the Shield 2.0

I have a late date Shield ,3 mags and night sights , picked up ex mags for 20 ea , its been flawless ,points well for me and shoots right on . I see the Sig 365 has been full of problems since it came out . I would never buy one .

P365s built since the June/July time frame have the most recent updates, and aren't reporting the same types of issues as early build models. I just bought a P365 (build date Oct 4th) and have taken it to the range twice now. I have had zero problems shooting about 400 rounds (mixed between FMJ and Underwood Extreme Defender) thru it so far. I plan on putting about 750 rounds thru it before I'll carry mine, vs. my normal 500 rounds with other pistols I've owned. I'll break it down completely and fully inspect it - take it to the range again and then start carrying it. I'm not a Sig fan boy by any stretch - as this is my first Sig firearm of any kind. However, I will defend a bunch about the P365 - including the overall design and certainly the amazing capacity in such a small package. While it's not for everyone, it fits my hands perfectly - almost as if Sig used molding clay when designing the grip. My previous sub compact carry pistols are - Walther PPKs, Glock 27, Ruger LC9s, Glock 43, S&W M&P 9c, Walther P99c AS, and now the P365. I own all those previous pistols except the Walther PPKs and Ruger LC9s. The easiest to carry by far was the LC9s, but it was brutal to shoot because of it's narrow grip, and the striker tip broke on it after 500 rounds (Ruger did repair it for free - and in a very timely manner). The Walther had stove pipes and FTFs with every magazine. My Glock 27, Walther P99c, and M&P 9c are excellent, but rather chunky to carry with light weight clothes. The Glock 43 conceals very well, but the standard 6+1 leaves a bit to be desired. I had considered a Shield when I ended up buying the G43 - as it's an excellent pistol as well. I went with the Glock because I have a few other Glocks in my collection - and I typically shoot them better than the M&P line (of which I've shot quite a few). So, back to the P365. I'll say it has a somewhat deserved black eye based on the first two "iterations" of the pistol. However, I strongly feel that this third iteration has taken care of those early issues, and I'll remind EVERYONE that other famous designs have also suffered problems when they were first released. To close, if you're comfortable with your Shield - keep it and use it. However, I wouldn't rule out other designs if you're interested. It's your money and your choice in the end...

PS: I WOULDN'T trust using magguts in a magazine used for self defense purposes. Their reliability has had some issues as well.

Wow good to know. Years back it seemed like Sig was all top shelf. But then the Model 225 seemed like the gun my friends raved about.

I own two Shields, and now two current build 365s (Sept & Oct.). They've been flawless. Before buying these two Sigs, I first read about them here on this forum. Then I researched all of the early comments regarding teething problems, and fixes.


Felt confident enough to buy one, just like I did with the Shield 45 ACP on it's initial release. My wife liked the 365 so much, that she wanted to shoot one too. Her other favorite is the Glock 43.

P.S. -- I still think very highly of my 45 ACP Shield, and take it to the ranges regularly. As to the 9mm Shield, I do like the capacity of the 12 round 365, which is actually a bit shorter than the extended mag for the Shield.

Again I hear of magguts problems by someone who doesn’t appear to have used them or actually experienced a problem.

Almost every single person erson who has reported using the newer z spring maggits have been basically flawless. So I would like to hear of ACTUAL real and substantiated problems with magguts shield mags.

This is 100% absolutely wrong. Oh wait, unless you are talking about how it fits your hand and not others'. For me, even though I carry a Shield, I get a much better purchase with the P365.

How a pistol feels in my hand is pointless relative how it may fit some one else. I think it's important however.
I have my Shield and my P365. I find the P365_in my hand's weight seems to be in one centralized location__not top,front or any place else. Of all the handguns I've fired, duty and personal has one felt so perfect relative weight location. Think holding a solid lead hand ball.
Sig Sauer design engineers have obviously put a lot of thought in this pistol's design. They did a lot more than "design a magazine and then design the pistol around it". I know many and Sig touts the mag capacity.
My other four pistols (other than my P320) have less capacity and that effects my decision to carry not one bit. In a SD situation in the one second you have in the decision process....well all those extra mags that's a concern of many .....same. If it happens it's over in two seconds. Been there and done it. I'm keeping my Shield too. Both of these are fine pistols.
Stay safe
Poli Viejo

Show us a photo of the spent brass from your P365 without primer drag and I might reconsider this pistol, until then I wouldn't trust my life with it@

Chazman1946 what is bad about primer drag?

I see it a lot in the range brass when I clean
my local stations. I never thought about it.

FWIW my Gen1 40 S&W Shields have clean
primer strikes. I didn't know to look for a
drag mark. If I had that, what was wrong?

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never get out of the boat

Left to right. P365. PC Shield. P938

I have 875 flawless rounds though the 365. Thousands of flawless rounds through the shield.

IMHO, Primer drag was a perceived issue for MAC, but has never to be shown as being an actual cause of any failure in the Sig P 365. Looks like MAC is snake bit! I think the Shield is an excellent pistol. A buddy has a few of them with aftermarket parts (trigger and sights) and they shoot very well. My Sig P 365 has performed superbly for over 1,000 rounds and the trigger pull is exceptional out-of-the-box. It looks like the OP's performed flawlessly as well! The fit of a polymer pistol in the hand is a personal thing and is relevant to the OP.

See this...

My Glock 43 has primer drag and it's never been an issue. My P365 has been hit or miss on primer drag (maybe in the order of 60% of the time). Sometimes the brass exhibits it - sometimes it doesn't. Either way the primer drag on mine is minimal.
I'm about as worried about primer drag as I am a meteor destroying the Earth tomorrow.

Having said that, if someone doesn't want to buy the P365 - don't. I'm not telling them they must. However, there's a lot of bad information going on out there in the interweb - don't believe all of it.

I had to buy a P365 after shooting a friends. Found a used one for a descent price and started shooting. I found it a really great shooter and had no issues thru 850 rounds, but it just didn't mold into my hand like I wanted. It felt good, but not a quick fit. I had never bought a Shield because I always found the grip to be a little too thin for my liking, then I heard about the Hogue beavertail grip. I got a Shield along with a Hogue grip and couldn't be happier. Fits ME perfectly. The P365 is a nice gun, but the Shield works better for me. Isn't it great having SO many different pistols to choose from?

No matter how you cut the cake you’re giving up at least 3 rounds. 12 rounds is smaller than the Shield with the mag extender.


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If I am not mistaken, of the three P365s MAC has purchased, one had a broken striker, the 2nd a broken trigger, and the third the trigger reset spring sticking out into the mag well.

youtube mac channel - Bing video

if extra rounds was the only criteria, I would carry my Walther PPQ M2

The fit in my hand is exactly as you describe, just never came up on target naturally like my Glocks, Rugers or Walthers.

How is the primer drag comparison of the 9mm and .380 equal? Please educate me!

I never got use to the new Glock 43 (a few years back), but my wife took to it very quickly, and adopted it. She's a great shot with it too. My 45 Shield, as well as the 365 just felt right, and were immediately hitting where I pointed. It's one of those cases of being very pleased with the first shots. My wife still hasn't formed a real opinion between the Glock and the 365. She's just so use to the Glock.

Easier to example two side by side photos of striker drag an and lack thereof, if they are different calibers so as to not confuse people.

Additionally they are both small striker fired subcompacts, which the Sig fans try to say all should have striker drag.

The Sig looks quite a bit smaller than the Shield in your hand. And while I like a grip long enough for my pinky in a carry gun I am willing to sacrifice the long grip for better concealment. I currently carry a Glock 43.

Looking on the forums I keep reading that while the version of the P365 Sig was making a few months ago had problems the new ones don't. A few months later I read the same thing. So I am going to wait at least a few more months before I buy one.

I am also hoping some other company, preferably S&W or Glock, will come out something similar that is reliable from day one. Sig says they have 3 patents on the magazine design but I don't know exactly what they could have patented. It is not like double column magazines tapering to 1 round at the top are anything new.

My previous EDC is a Kahr CM9. The fired primers always showed a drag mark. I contacted Kahr and they explained what was happening. That pistol has never failed to function, except when my thumb pushed the slide lock up. I have fired all manner of rounds through it, including 125 gr. round nose lead bullets with a mild powder charge. I feel sorry for MAC, but his problems aren't at all typical of the many owners of the Sig P 365 out there. Their reports of no problems are just as valid as MAC's troubles. Being an internet star doesn't make his experiences more valid. I'm more interested in your experiences with the pistol, which seem to be good, except you don't like the "feel" and that is valid for you. I just noticed that in the December 2018 issue of Guns & Ammo that they awarded the Sig P365 the pistol of the year.

MAC was not the only one to have trouble. If 95% of P365 owners report no problems but 99.9% of Shield/Glock43 owners report no problems that would be enough to convince me to avoid the P365. I did not see nearly as many problems reported with other single stack 9s when they came out. There were some problems but not nearly as many. What also struck me about the P365 is how many people really, really wanted the gun to work, gave it every chance to do so, but still could not recommend it.

The latest versions of the P365 seem to be a lot more reliable but I still worry that the latest versions of the P365 are guns that work well under normal conditions but have very little room for error. That they work well on the range when you have time for a firm two handed grip but might fail if you have to shoot one handed with a less than ideal grip. That a round of ammo a little stronger or weaker than normal might cause a failure. That Sig has had to tweak and fine tune an inherently finicky design and is holding their breath hoping that this time it will be the reliable gun people expect.

While I worry about all of that I don't know if it is true or not. It could be the Sig is a great design that had more teething trouble than other small 9mm pistols. I hope that is true but am going to keep waiting for now.

I believe Sig has indicated that the return rate is much much less than 5%. My LGS has sold hundreds and (last time I asked) they knew of none that had issues, including the first version.

Forgetting what I see and read on the internet, I know that my sample of one P365 has run flawless for 875 rounds with all kinds of ammo including some old ****** reloads.

I know of a few other people personally that have similar experiences including one person that has several thousand rounds through a version 1 without problems.

Is this to say it is better or worse or equal to a Shield? Nope. You can be your own judge but I find the P365 reliable, accurate and incredibly easy to shoot.

It’s a crowded market and CZ is about to add another sub-compact to the market leaving a multitude of sub and micro compacts for us to choose from.

Quality control by consumer is a sad fact of many if not most major manufacturers today. Not just guns either. Sad. It’s a rush to market to appease shareholders but I digress...

If I kept waiting, I might die of old age first. In the meantime, I'm really having a great time shooting the 365. We now own two.

I doubt that your figures are even close to realistic. I really don't care if you buy a Sig P 365 or not. It's your money. All I can say is that mine has been 100% with various ammo, some pretty mild re-loads. A carry pistol really only has to be reliable with your carry loads. I don't know of anyone who has felt it necessary to tweak or tune the P 365. Almost all of the other handguns I have owned have needed at least some slight modifying to suit me, especially S&W revolvers. The OP said this was his take on the two pistols. Mostly, besides being afraid of internet stars having problems, he said his P 365 was reliable, but he doesn't like the feel. My take on the Sig P 365, is that it is the best out-of-the box handgun I have ever owned. It needs nothing. I have over 1,200 rounds through mine. That being said, your mileage may vary. As previously stated MAC's problems are an anomaly IMHO.

I read all the reports about the P365 before I bought mine. I also read about issues on the Internet about the Shield, before I bought 2 of those.

All it took was for me to hold the P365 in my hand and feel the nice trigger out of the box and I was sold.

Now to be clear everyone has an opinion of what is right or wrong for them and I respect that.

With that said I am the owner of a Glock 43 (customized by Bowie Tactical) that I simply love.

I am the owner of 2 Shield 9mm's (one customized by Bowie and one done by a local to me at the time talent, Williams Gun Works in Wichita, KS) and I do like both of them.

But the P365 has had nothing done to it and I love it just the way it is! I am still in the testing mode but have had zero malfunctions, etc... with her.

I have not looked at the whole issue of firing pin primer drag but frankly I am not sure I understand what that would matter.

If someone could explain to me what that affects I would be grateful.

Mostly though I love the P365 because it fits MY hand nicely, I don't have to shift my grip a little to keep from pulling to the right on the target (my left, usually brought on by the smaller grip and finger placement habits that I have), the trigger is very nice, the capacity with the standard mag is double my 442 AND IT FITS IN MY POCKET!

None of the others can say that and that is what has won me over so far.

Yes, the P365 is smaller with more rounds, but are you going to pocket carry it? If not, I don't need something that small in a belt holster. The lack of mass might also be a contributing factor to the gun's wearing issues. Although I do not own one at the moment, I'd rather the Shield because it shoots better in my opinion (less muzzle flip). If I want to stick something in my pocket, my Ruger LCP II is better for that. On my belt, a Shield or a G26 is as small as I want to go. Other than that, I'm carrying a 15+1 option appendix style.

I am only repeating what I've been told so I can't confirm or deny this, but the striker drag supposedly is indicative of a possible firing pin failure down the road. Again, that's not coming from me, I am just regurgitating what I heard.

I no longer own either pistol though my preference is the Shield, above all because it fits my hands better. The P365 is just too small for me. I was very happy with my S&W M&P Gen 1.0, Gen 1.0 Shield, Gen 1.1 M&P, and Gen 2.0 M&P triggers. They all broke with absolutely zero front sight disruption for me and the reset was long enough so that subsequent shots were fast enough and accurate. That's all I care about.

I can shoot a Bodyguard awesome for the first round, for example, probably more consistently than I can most striker fired guns. I don't know why people complain about it because it actually is better than my SIG P229 Elite's DA pull.

The weakness of the BG trigger is the subsequent pulls at speed. If I am slow firing, that's not a problem, and it is as good and accurate a trigger as anything IMHO (since it does nothing to detract from the accuracy of the gun and is very forgiving if I don't get a perfect grip).

Getting back to the Shield, every pull is also great for me. The only thing I don't like about the M&P triggers is that they break a little far to the rear for my longer hand. It's something I can get used to, however, and as I said, does not affect accuracy for me.

Yes, I'd rather have a PPQ trigger on a striker-fired gun than a Shield or P365 trigger, but I don't need it, so as far as the "better" P365 trigger is concerned, it is of no practical use for me.

It then comes down to the fit. It's not like I can't control a small gun (I shoot my Bodyguard and Ruger LCP II just fine), but I have to adjust my hands with the P365. Others probably have the opposite problem and shoot it better than the Shield. A lot of it depends on how well your hands can warm up to a particular pistol.

Primer drag happens in many handguns, including 1911s. If your pistol is working and you guys have time to examine your fired cases, good on you. Most Glocks do it, and guess what firearms almost never malfunction...Glocks.

I ignore perceived “issues” until they actually are issues.

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Loving retirement!

Jeff Cooper called small 9mm handguns "crunchintickers". I call them "plastomatics". What's the point in auguing? Buy the one you like and be happy. If everybody liked the same thing the world would be a boring place.

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S&W Accumulator

I don’t pocket carry and the smaller size of the p365 makes it easier to carry without printing and having to dress around it. The 365 is more accurate as well for myself and most people I know that has one. The 365 is just amazing.


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Not the only criteria for me. The 365 is a lot smaller and still holds a lot of rounds.


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Went to the range last night to have some fun and mostly to have the wife try out some options for her. One she tried was the 365. She first handled it at Cabelas. She like it and we tried it out last night from the LGS rental fleet.

She liked it though she is still in the learning stage. I gave it a try and was impressed. It shot great for me putting 5 in a decent grouping at 7yds at a somewhat fast pace. Better than my Shield 9 that was also along and my M&P full size. It pointed for me naturally. And didn't go low left like I usually do. LOL

May have to get one in the future.

I looked at a P365 and held it. It was just too small and didn’t feel right to me. I prefer the shield. It reminded me of a misshapen ruger lc9s. Now it might be a great gun but I won’t buy it.

Sig messed up with the MPX warranty work and had me going in circles until I sold the thing. Then I bough a P320 when it first came out and they changed things on it to make it incompatible with the grip modules and didn’t release the caliber xchange kits until a year later. By the time I thought they had the kinks worked out I bought a carry P320 and the drop fire issue came to light THAT WEEK! I sold both at a loss and washed my hands of sig Sauer. Yes, they make some decent guns but their reputation with the P320 and 0365 issues is horrible and their customer service is awful, or was for me when I needed warranty work done on my MPX.

And sig is releasing a new version this summer. Can’t wait to see what goes wrong.

The P365 MAY end up being a good gun but they’ll have to prove that over 2-3 years. Guys saying they have 10000 rounds through theirs means nothing to me. Wait 5 years and see what happens. The fixed p320s seem okay now but Glocks and M&Ps have been out working well for years without massive issues or recalls.

I’d buy a 9mm Shield before a P365.

Also $50 magazines...

Sounds like y'all should have bought a Walther PPS M2.

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Release the Kraken

I own a P365, S&W PC 9mm, S&W PC.45 and feel confident with all 3. The P365 is now my EDC because I like the way it conceals (IWB) and carries for me. The 10rnd extended and the 12rnd magazines make for a nice fit and hold. I would say I shoot all 3 equally but I feel the follow up shot is easier with the P365, seems I control recoil slightly better and stay more on target. I don't feel one is better than the other but simply personal choice.

A highly experienced "gun guy" friend of mine, had his first outing with his new Sig P365 yesterday. After shooting a few different proficiency courses and going through and abundance of various types of 9mm ammo, to include "bear loads" he basically fell in love with the P365. He has always been a Glock and S&W M&P guy. He shot his other pistols to compare to the Sig. He was stunned with his ability to shoot the small pistol accurately out to 25 yds. (the range max. distance). I welcomed him to the "dark side" and told him, "You are my son!"

I look and look at the Sig 365 but never get one, all those problems for a long time with them , I have older Sig guns and Love them , I bought SW and G/ 48 both fact night sights , mags for sale all over .

3 to 3 1/2 year old thread, kept open for historical references.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

I find it funny that some folks are so influenced by internet videos and will condemn a product only based on that. After I posted over 4 years ago, my buddy and I are still shooting and carrying our Sig P365's. No gun issues, but I did replace the spring on one of my 10 round magazines when it had been kept loaded for years and it failed to feed the last round (that's on me). It now works great. The pistols function, so far, 100%; are still accurate and easy to shoot. Their popularity speaks of their worth.

I have owned the Shield,365, 365XL, Shield 4", but now own a
PPS M2. Hellcat, Ruger Max9, the Plus 3.1" and 4". I experienced no major issues with any but I had worse grouping with the 365's. If I wasn't somewhat of a capacity ***** I would carry my Walther PPS M2 which is a tremendous shooting little gun.

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Is that a gun No a lifesaver