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Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols All Variants of the Smith & Wesson M&P Auto Series


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Old 01-24-2019, 11:51 PM
Frankenstein9309 Frankenstein9309 is offline
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Default 1st post: bought M&P Shield single stack... slide release is TIGHT

The ergonomics are great - but... the slide release is really hard to work with the thumb.

Anybody else had this? If so, I wager this will loose up with use. Correct?
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Old 01-24-2019, 11:55 PM
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It's not really meant to release the slide, S&W intended for the slide to be pulled to the rear and released to move the slide into battery. It might wear in a little, but not much.
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Old 01-25-2019, 12:01 AM
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Correct


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Old 01-25-2019, 12:31 AM
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Yep, Smith & Wesson calls it a slide stop. Insert the mag and then pull back on the slide and let go without riding it. If you hold on to the slide, it may not go fully into battery.
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Old 01-25-2019, 12:55 AM
SoCalDep SoCalDep is offline
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It is a slide release as well as a slide stop and using it is a perfectly valid technique.

Change my mind.
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Old 01-25-2019, 01:17 AM
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OP, it's normal. Sling shot that slide, it's much easier and faster.

SoCalDep, it's a valid technique, just not a very easy one in the Shield. No sense working harder than need be.
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Old 01-25-2019, 03:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunny4053 View Post
OP, it's normal. Sling shot that slide, it's much easier and faster.

SoCalDep, it's a valid technique, just not a very easy one in the Shield. No sense working harder than need be.
Not faster. Especially with some practice, and I’ve seen more issues with sling shotting than using the lever across multiple pistol platforms. The Shield is more difficult, especially in the beginning, but still faster than a sling shot assuming proper technique.
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Old 01-25-2019, 07:47 AM
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Welcome to the OP .

Surprised no one asked if the slide release was being tried with a full or empty magazine. or no magazine. It will work least easily with an empty.

To me using the slide is the best but not the only way to put it into battery. If S & W didn't intend for the release to be used, even as a backup, they would have designed it with an internal mechanism (think Walther PP/PPK, among others).

Hope you enjoy your new Shield!
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Old 01-25-2019, 09:56 AM
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Welcome to the Forum!
You are not alone in perceiving this. Barely a Month goes by that someone new to the Shield doesn't ask about the Slide 'Release' (Slide Stop).

A Search of this Sub-Forum, using the words Shield Tight Slide will produce dozens (if not Hundreds) of threads
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Old 01-25-2019, 10:46 AM
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After 1,000 rounds, I could use the slide stop to thumb the slide. Before that, the sling shot was required.

Oh, and when new, you really have to pull the slide back and let it rip. If you ride the slide at all, it may not feed properly. After 100+ rounds and another 100 slide manipulations, it will loosen up.

All of the tightness was a surprise to me when I first shot my Shield 9mm when it was new. I had tried out a rental Shield prior to purchase. It must have had 10,000+ rounds on the recoil spring. All you had to do was lightly tap the back of the slide and it would fly forward.
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Old 01-25-2019, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murphydog View Post
Welcome to the OP .

Surprised no one asked if the slide release was being tried with a full or empty magazine. or no magazine. It will work least easily with an empty.

To me using the slide is the best but not the only way to put it into battery. If S & W didn't intend for the release to be used, even as a backup, they would have designed it with an internal mechanism (think Walther PP/PPK, among others).

Hope you enjoy your new Shield!
Took a concealed carry tactics class last year where the instructor had us use our actual edc - unloaded of course.
During the reloading drills I had a heck of a time using the slide stop/release to get the gun back into battery. I called S&W and talked with a technician about it, AND whether Smith "intended" for it to be used as a release. He explained that with an unloaded mag it is much more difficult to release the slide but it works fine with a loaded mag. I confirmed this during my next range session.

He also explained that in the manual S&W calls it a slide stop simply because the goal of the gun was to be as "slim" as possible (for carry), which meant reducing the width of the stop/release lever, thus making it more difficult for some to use as a release....so they went with STOP. But he emphasized that there is no reason it can't be used for both!
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Old 01-25-2019, 11:57 AM
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I have 2,000 rounds or more through my shield. I bought it used so 2,000 rounds is minimum.

And my slide stop lever required tow hands/thumbs to use the lever.

Thus the stop is a stop and not functionally usable as a release. If it has not wore in to be used in 2,000 rounds, I have no idea when it will become functionallly usable as a release.

Using two hands is MUCH slower than using two hands to sling shot.

Also even on all thise other guns out there that the release does work. So does sling shotting them. Thus I am almost assured that every self sefense handgun wil work with the slingshot method.

Muscle memory is critical when the SHTF! And I dont want to remember what weapon brand or model I happen to have in my hand. I want to build muscle memory through repetition and a process that works on ANY pistol I happen to have in my hand.

The slingshot method works on every brand I know,S&W, Glock, Walther, Sig. you name it it will work.

Using a release is only faster when that method just happens to work in the specific weapon you are using. But if you train yourself to use the stop/release and in a critical situation have to use my shield. You will be screwed! Ain’t ni way your beloved and ingrain release method will close the slide. Unless you are the freaking HULK.

But if I happen to be forced to use your weapon in a pinch. You better believe my infrained slinghot muscle memory WILL work!

Just my personal opinion and philosophy and choice of how I personally train and why. Everyone can, and should make up their own mind for their own reasons. Thus, YMMV
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Old 01-25-2019, 12:11 PM
SoCalDep SoCalDep is offline
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Good post. I think slingshotting is a perfectly valid method of manipulation, just as use of the slide stop as a release. There are advantages and drawbacks to both methods.

Another thought is that slingshotting does not help the slide stop to wear in and become easier... if one wants to make it easier to release the slide, make sure the pistol is empty with no magazine. Lock the slide to the rear and release it with the slide release over and over until it becomes easier. This can take a while.
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Old 01-25-2019, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankenstein9309 View Post
The ergonomics are great - but... the slide release is really hard to work with the thumb.

Anybody else had this? If so, I wager this will loose up with use. Correct?
As I have posted in numerous similar threads before, S&W will not adjust their slide stops on production guns to function also as a release. It costs them time to do this, and that is money.

HOWEVER, it is a very easy process for a gunsmith or even an owner to do. Simply reduce the friction between the slide notch and the release lever. Letting this occur naturally through wear is a laborious, slow and often unproductive process.

With a properly adjusted slide stop, it will still function 100% reliably as a stop.

The slide can be released by the sling shot method.
The slide can be released by the overhand method.
The slide can be released by hooking it on an object.
The slide can be released with finger or thumb pressure on the stop lever (making it OH MY a release).
The slide can even benefit from the fastest method of closing it, the auto-release.

Every way you can imagine of getting a slide closed is still available for the choice of the shooter. Options are good.

Custom guns, experienced professional shooters, and even some of us lowly, normal every day civilians choose to close a locked back slide in the fastest way possible, because in a fight (or even competition), fractions of a second count.

The overhand and slingshot (OH/SS) methods are absolutely, unequivocally the slowest methods of release and getting back on target, and neither is foolproof. They are taught because instructors have to teach to the mechanical level of the average mass manufactured gun, which does not have a tuned slide stop/release. It is ONE way of getting the slide to close, and it is a good way for average users with average guns. It is very universal. It is easier to teach one method, and THAT is why it is taught and promoted, not because it is the best.

Manufacturers promote this release method to excuse that they do not make the proper initial adjustment at the factory. The idea that OH/SS is the right, only, best, fastest, easiest, most correct, etc. way of closing a slide is just plain ignorance of a simple mechanical principle--friction.

All cut engagement surfaces on mass manufactured guns are microscopically very rough. Some of the high points will slowly wear down with repeated use, like the high speed interface of the slide and rails, and even some components of the trigger group. This can be very slow and never reach the desired level of smoothness produced by judicious polishing--one of the hallmarks of every custom gun.

Remove the slide. Raise the stop lever. With oiled 800 grit wet/dry sandpaper and without changing any angles, polish the engagement surface of the lever. Do a few swipes inside the corresponding notch on the slide. Test. You will likely have to do this 2-3 times before you get the friction reduced sufficiently to allow you to consistently use the STOP also as a RELEASE using your finger or thumb. Even finer polishing will allow you to progress to adding auto-release as an option for closing a locked slide--all without interfering with any other method of closing the slide you choose.

Once the components are polished, they do not wear like unpolished surfaces. They tend to just continue functioning smoothly. There is no downside to this, unless you change engagement angles and over polish. It is easy for a 'smith to re-establish the angles and correct this problem. No need to replace the slide, or even the stop, although it is always wise to have an extra stop lever on hand because as a stamped part under significant stress it is one of those parts that can have a relatively short life cycle.

Please stop the madness. It is also a release and is called such by some manufacturers. No matter what it is called, its functionality is what is important. It can easily and properly function as both a stop and a release. Really.

BTW, that button you use to RELEASE a mag from the grip? If it wasn't first a MAG STOP you would have nothing to release, right? So if its first function is to hold the mag in the grip, why isn't it called a mag stop? Terminology is less important than functions.

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Old 01-25-2019, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
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BTW, that button you use to RELEASE a mag from the grip? If it wasn't first a MAG STOP you would have nothing to release, right? So if its first function is to hold the mag in the grip, why isn't it called a mag stop? Terminology is less important than functions.
Glock identifies it as a "magazine catch . . . "
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Old 01-29-2019, 08:30 PM
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Excellent replies, folks. Thanks!
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Old 01-29-2019, 09:02 PM
kgpcr kgpcr is offline
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My release worked by finger after 500 or so rounds.
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Old 01-30-2019, 07:55 AM
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If you look at the slide stop engagement area it is square. You can round it a bit to make it easier to release.
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Old 01-30-2019, 11:56 AM
jim46ok jim46ok is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalDep View Post
It is a slide release as well as a slide stop and using it is a perfectly valid technique.

Change my mind.
S&W says NOT.
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Old 01-30-2019, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim46ok View Post
S&W says NOT.
Correct.

S&W will not take the time to adjust it so it can be used as a release.

But you can.

Then it can easily and properly be used as a release.

Which is also correct.

As stated before, simple nomenclature may not adequately define multiple functions. The “stop” has many mechanical characteristics:

1. The follower of an empty mag will cause the stop lever to rise, overcoming the downward stop lever return spring pressure, and lock the slide back.

2. The operator can manually lock the slide back by using the external tab on the lever to lock back a manually retracted slide, which is specifically designed for this function.

3. By manually retracting a locked back slide (OH/SS or hooking the slide on an object), a shooter can relieve tension of the stop engagement surfaces, allowing the stop lever spring to push it down and out of the way of the slide stop notch. Even if the spring is broken, gravity might allow the stop to drop, but reliability may suffer until the spring is fixed.

Manual slide retraction is often done improperly, especially by inexperienced shooters, and the slide does not go into battery. Wearing gloves also can foul slide retraction and closing. This action requires two hands unless well trained in hooking the slide on an object for release. It also requires the releasing hand to be farther away from a firing grip, which logically and realistically takes more time to execute than other methods.

4. The operator can use the stop lever tab, which is designed specifically for this use when slightly adjusted to set the proper amount of friction between the engagement surfaces, to release the locked slide by pushing down on the tab, overcoming friction and stop spring pressure, to close the slide while obtaining a firing grip. This has been the preferred method for releasing a locked slide for millions of shooters over the last 100 years because it works reliably and is fast. This method is so common that some manufacturers and many shooters call the lever a release. This is not any more wrong than calling it a stop—it functions both ways. Everyone understands both descriptive terms. It only becomes a problem if someone tries to make it into a terminology/function problem. Using this method there is no chance of riding the slide and preventing it from going into battery—one of the most common reload problems with the OH/SS methods.

5. Finally, a properly adjusted slide stop lever can auto-release a locked back slide. When a loaded mag is inserted in an empty grip with moderate (standard) force to seat it, the jarring motion is enough to reduce the stop’s friction against the slide notch. The stop lever drops and the slide closes while the shooter is acquiring a firing grip and ensuring through (unnecessary) finger tab pressure that the slide has closed. This method is common but not widespread because it takes a little more finesse in stop adjustment. It is the fastest way to effect a slide lock reload.

Every trained pistolero practices the OH/SS methods of closing a slide. There are times when such manipulations are required. People who use other methods to unlock a slide don’t say the other methods are wrong; it’s just that for common slide reloads they prefer different methods.

So given this variety of functions, what is the proper nomenclature for such a device? It is most commonly called a stop, but that in no way limits its function to only performing in limited ways.

It’s a stop. And a release. And a catch. And a thingamabob. And a doohickey. But it is NOT just a stop, no matter what a profit-oriented manufacturer may title it.
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Old 01-30-2019, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim46ok View Post
S&W says NOT.


I don’t see that in the Shield 9 manual. However I was reading the manual for my M&P 22 Compact and saw this:

“Press down on the slide stop to release the slide and allow it to carry fully forward on its own under spring tension. Or, pull back on the slide and release it from your grasp. Either action will strip a cartridge from the magazine and seat it in the chamber of the barrel. “
Similar language is in the M&P 380 Shield EZ manual. Non of my M&P pistol manuals specifically state to NOT release the slide by pressing the slide stop.


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Old 01-30-2019, 03:25 PM
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I've used the Slide Stop/Catch/Release to drop the slide on all of my auto's for years. So after reading all the "it's a slide stop, not a release" berating's given to people wanting to use it as a release I contacted S&W to see what they have to say about it. They "recommend" the slingshot method, but say you can absolutely use it to release the slide, although it might need breaking in.

Here is the chat I had with Rachel on S&W Chat:
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Old 01-30-2019, 04:48 PM
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One should remember when dealing with customer service reps at any large company, you will rarely get the same answer from three different individuals. Even manuals are written to the level of the lowest common denominator and to legally protect the manufacturer and simplify their business (to make more $$).

When it comes to setting up and running my guns, I do what benefits my needs, not their’s. As long as I can articulate a reasonable explanation why a modification is an improvement for me, I am comfortable.
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Old 01-30-2019, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by nanney1 View Post
I had tried out a rental Shield prior to purchase. It must have had 10,000+ rounds on the recoil spring. All you had to do was lightly tap the back of the slide and it would fly forward.
That’s because hundred’s of idiots who don’t know how to properly use a gun shot that rental. When I worked at a range that rented guns, it amazed me how many people had no idea how to rack the slide, & lock it back. I wouldn’t rent them the gun. So I offered this one idiot a revolver, & asked him how he would load the ammo in it. He had absolutely no idea how to open the cylinder to load it. I told him we could offer him a one on one beginner class for not much more than the range fee, & ammo, but this insulted him. I said “so you want me to loan you a gun, & you have absolutely no idea how to use it”? So I’m assuming some ranges hand guns to people without even asking if they know how to use it. GARY

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Old 01-30-2019, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by jim46ok View Post
S&W says NOT.
When’s the last time you spoke to them? I do a lot... just spoke to them at the shot show. I teach for a very large department that teaches to release the slide with the slide stop/release... and
I frequently work with another very large department that issues the M&P and teaches to use the slide stop to release the slide. You quoted my post that asked to change my mind. Not only did you fail at that, but offered no substantial contrary argument.

You don’t have to use the slide stop to release the slide but if you argue that it’s wrong, then YOU are.
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Old 01-31-2019, 08:04 AM
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And for that matter, you could drive to work in low gear every day. It will get you there, but will cause more wear on your car. But it will get you there. GARY.
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Old 01-31-2019, 06:38 PM
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There's an awful lot of right, wrong, and indifferent opinions going on, so let's see what the manual says.

From the Shield Safety & Instruction manual: Pull the slide to the rear and release it, allowing it to carry fully forward. This strips a cartridge from the magazine and seats it in the chamber of the barrel.

From the M&P Pistols Safety and Instruction manual: Pull the slide to the rear, press down on the slide stop to release the slide and allow it to carry fully forward. This strips a cartridge from the magazine and seats it in the chamber of the barrel.

So the sling shot is used for both, but on the M&P Pistols it actually says to do both at the same time. Is it the best or fastest, good question, but it is the recommended method straight from the manual. If it's recommended, I must assume S&W sees it as the safest method as well. You can play he said, she said all day, but if you follow what "we" said in the manual, there will never be a liability question, and firearms manufacturers are all about avoiding liability.

OP, it's up to what works for you. Good luck and good shooting.
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Old 02-01-2019, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Frankenstein9309 View Post
The ergonomics are great - but... the slide release is really hard to work with the thumb.

Anybody else had this? If so, I wager this will loose up with use. Correct?
Its not a slide release. Its a slide lock. I know a lot of guys use these for a release___So does Hollywood.
If you sling shot your pistol you'll like what happens.
Some pistols and some slide locks on some pistols will release the
slide. Many competitive shooters like to be able to release the slide. Some even change them to a larger slide lock.
Basically, you pistol is within spec.
Enjoy but stay safe.
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Old 02-03-2019, 02:30 AM
SoCalDep SoCalDep is offline
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Originally Posted by Horn View Post
Its not a slide release. Its a slide lock. I know a lot of guys use these for a release___So does Hollywood.
What is your background and expertise to make such an absolute claim (it is this, not that)?

I ask, because I contend, based on decades of experience in law enforcement, training from some of the top shooters and instructors in the industry (including members and former members of various special operations units) and personal observations training thousands of law enforcement officers who use the M&P and god-forbid the slide stop/lock/release/whatever... Oh yea... a bit of shooting through my own M&Ps and Shield... in the many 10s of thousands of rounds... oh and also overseeing the testing of the Shield for my department where one fired over 15,000 rounds and the other over 18,000 rounds...

That you are flat out wrong.

I have a Safariland Advanced Pistol rating, a FAST coin, and twice shot a 299/300 on the FBI instructor course, but hey...maybe I’m wrong.
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Old 02-03-2019, 03:24 AM
shadowrider shadowrider is offline
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O/P my 9 Pro was so stiff when new I thought it was broken. It'll loosen up with use. I also use the slide release and it's just faster, all day, every day. I demonstrate it in a class that I take regularly. It drives the instructors nuts. They teach the slingshot method.

I've also had them swear up and down that inserting a mag firmly enough to drop the slide will fail to feed a round sometimes. Never had that happen on any of my 6 M&Ps in multiple calibers. EVER. In literally hundreds of reloads. I always point out to them that M&Ps aren't Glocks. It trips their trigger. LOL!

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Old 02-03-2019, 10:15 AM
SiGfever SiGfever is offline
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I had a Kahr PM9 that the instruction manual said to Lock the Slide back, and then release the Slide Stop on a full mag to chamber a round". I paraphrase.
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Old 02-03-2019, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by SiGfever View Post
I had a Kahr PM9 that the instruction manual said to Lock the Slide back, and then release the Slide Stop on a full mag to chamber a round". I paraphrase.
From the current online Kahr manual, page 16, Loading:

“Insert the magazine into the magazine well at the base of the grip until the magazine catch engages fully.

“Pull the slide fully to the rear and lock it back using the Slide Stop. Next push down on the Slide Stop to chamber the first round into the barrel. Do not chamber a round by pulling back on the slide and letting go of the slide. This may cause the slide to not go fully into battery.”

Will someone PLEASE tell Kahr they should not be advising people to use the Stop as a release?

In truth, I have had three Kahrs and really liked them. Once broken in, you could use any method to load, including from a locked back slide, that you might use on any other gun with a slide lock. I never loaded a full mag into a gun with a closed slide, then locked back the slide, then released the slide by pushing down on the slide stop. If the slide was closed with a loaded magazine inserted, I would use the overhand retraction and release method. When done properly, it worked just fine on my Kahrs.

The point is, Kahr recognizes that pulling back on the slide can be done incorrectly causing a failure to go into battery. With a reduced friction slide stop, using it as a release on a locked back slide ensures that the recoil springs will drive the slide into battery without inference.

This is Kahr’s way of preventing problems with their guns, especially when new and the recoil springs are stiff. It seems kind of silly to me, but so do parts of almost all other manufacturers’ manuals, because they are written for them with minimum instruction and not for us with maximum options.

Follow only what is written in a manual and you will have reduced usefulness from your gun.
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Old 02-03-2019, 11:23 AM
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Wow. There's a lot of thinking about the slide stop on the Shield.

From the manual: Pull the slide to the rear and release it, allowing it to carry fully forward. This strips a cartridge from the magazine and seats it in the chamber of the barrel.

FWIW, I've always used the slingshot on the Shield and I have never had a problem in over 1.2k rounds. That's about 173 magazines.... I usually slingshot to load my guns....
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Old 02-03-2019, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by SiGfever View Post
I had a Kahr PM9 that the instruction manual said to Lock the Slide back, and then release the Slide Stop on a full mag to chamber a round". I paraphrase.
Kahr is owned by a religious fanatic. The MOONIES. I would never own any product they make, or trust anything they say. A Glock armorer once yelled at me when I “dropped the slide” using the lever, & showed me the “slingshot” method. It’s been that way ever since. I know, the M&P’s are not Glocks, but if you disassembled both side by side, you’d be amazed how similar they are. Funny Glock doesn’t sue them. Wait a minute, they did, & they won. GARY.
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Old 02-03-2019, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalDep View Post
What is your background and expertise to make such an absolute claim (it is this, not that)?

I ask, because I contend, based on decades of experience in law enforcement, training from some of the top shooters and instructors in the industry (including members and former members of various special operations units) and personal observations training thousands of law enforcement officers who use the M&P and god-forbid the slide stop/lock/release/whatever... Oh yea... a bit of shooting through my own M&Ps and Shield... in the many 10s of thousands of rounds... oh and also overseeing the testing of the Shield for my department where one fired over 15,000 rounds and the other over 18,000 rounds...

That you are flat out wrong.

I have a Safariland Advanced Pistol rating, a FAST coin, and twice shot a 299/300 on the FBI instructor course, but hey...maybe I’m wrong.
I shook hands with Gen. Depuy, Gen. Schwarzkopf, Gen. George S. Patton, Jr., and Admiral Long. I fired the M198 155mm howitzer when it was the XM 198, before the military even bought it. I was a Drill Sgt., a firearms instructor, an Instructor at the NCO Academy, an Artillery Mechanic, a Gun crew chief, Gunnery Sgt., Chief of Firing Battery, 1SG, and Operations Sgt. In over 20 years in the Military, the breech block on a howitzer is still a breech block. According to Smith and Wesson's own manual, the pictures show and the description is still listed as a "slide stop". So unless S&W hired you to specifically to change the nomenclature of one of their parts, I'm pretty sure it's still a "slide stop". Use it as you please, but don't criticize others for calling it what S&W has identified it as.
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Old 02-03-2019, 05:26 PM
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I shook hands with Gen. Depuy, Gen. Schwarzkopf, Gen. George S. Patton, Jr., and Admiral Long. I fired the M198 155mm howitzer when it was the XM 198, before the military even bought it. I was a Drill Sgt., a firearms instructor, an Instructor at the NCO Academy, an Artillery Mechanic, a Gun crew chief, Gunnery Sgt., Chief of Firing Battery, 1SG, and Operations Sgt. In over 20 years in the Military, the breech block on a howitzer is still a breech block. According to Smith and Wesson's own manual, the pictures show and the description is still listed as a "slide stop". So unless S&W hired you to specifically to change the nomenclature of one of their parts, I'm pretty sure it's still a "slide stop". Use it as you please, but don't criticize others for calling it what S&W has identified it as.
Hey, I'm with you 1000%, but it's not correct to end a sentence with a preposition. GARY

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Old 02-03-2019, 05:41 PM
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MY bad.
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Old 02-03-2019, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by N4KVE View Post
Hey, I'm with you 1000%, but it's not correct to end a sentence with a preposition. GARY
"Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put." Winston Churchill 1st post:  bought M&P Shield single stack... slide release is TIGHT
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Old 02-03-2019, 09:57 PM
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And we digress.
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Old 02-04-2019, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by SoCalDep View Post
What is your background and expertise to make such an absolute claim (it is this, not that)?

I ask, because I contend, based on decades of experience in law enforcement, training from some of the top shooters and instructors in the industry (including members and former members of various special operations units) and personal observations training thousands of law enforcement officers who use the M&P and god-forbid the slide stop/lock/release/whatever... Oh yea... a bit of shooting through my own M&Ps and Shield... in the many 10s of thousands of rounds... oh and also overseeing the testing of the Shield for my department where one fired over 15,000 rounds and the other over 18,000 rounds...

That you are flat out wrong.

I have a Safariland Advanced Pistol rating, a FAST coin, and twice shot a 299/300 on the FBI instructor course, but hey...maybe I’m wrong.
That all may be... but you would have to be the Hulk or use two hands to get my shield to release. Even the range instructor who also shoots tens of thousands of rounds per year also could not work it.

So I suppose I can send this clearly malfunctioning gun back to S&W. I am sure they will modify the slide or the stop/release/lock so that it works properly.

Or will S&W send it back unchanged saying that my weapon operates exactly as designed/properly?
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Old 02-04-2019, 12:35 AM
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I shook hands with Gen. Depuy, Gen. Schwarzkopf, Gen. George S. Patton, Jr., and Admiral Long. I fired the M198 155mm howitzer when it was the XM 198, before the military even bought it. I was a Drill Sgt., a firearms instructor, an Instructor at the NCO Academy, an Artillery Mechanic, a Gun crew chief, Gunnery Sgt., Chief of Firing Battery, 1SG, and Operations Sgt. In over 20 years in the Military, the breech block on a howitzer is still a breech block. According to Smith and Wesson's own manual, the pictures show and the description is still listed as a "slide stop". So unless S&W hired you to specifically to change the nomenclature of one of their parts, I'm pretty sure it's still a "slide stop". Use it as you please, but don't criticize others for calling it what S&W has identified it as.
My post wasn’t addressed to you but yours was to me. You may be a howitzer expert but that doesn’t make you a pistol expert. S&W didn’t hire me but one of (maybe the) largest Sheriff’s departments in the world did, and relies on me for a fairly significant level of expertise, and I can say that relying on a manual written by lawyers not users isn’t the way to best practices.

Regardless of which important person shook your hand, if you developed your howitzer knowledge solely by reading the manual then you are good at nothing but following directions... and someone who came up with those directions is much smarter than you. That said, I’m guessing you, based on your years of experience, found over time the best ways to manage that equipment, regardless of what the manual people said.

I never criticized what the part was called, so let’s not create straw man arguments. I criticized those who believe there is only one way to use it.

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Old 02-04-2019, 12:50 AM
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That all may be... but you would have to be the Hulk or use two hands to get my shield to release. Even the range instructor who also shoots tens of thousands of rounds per year also could not work it.

So I suppose I can send this clearly malfunctioning gun back to S&W. I am sure they will modify the slide or the stop/release/lock so that it works properly.

Or will S&W send it back unchanged saying that my weapon operates exactly as designed/properly?
I understand your frustration. It’s almost laughable that the M&P will, on one hand, take ungodly force to release the slide via the slide stop while at the same time releasing “almost” always when a mag is slammed in... almost except when it doesn’t, which is generally when you really need it to do so.

This is one of the areas where the design of the M&P creates problems. I have found that repeated locking and releasing of the slide via the slide stop will eventually wear it in. My Shield is still tight enough that I release the slide with my support thumb rather than strong thumb, but after working it in it’s fast and consistent.

That’s one reason why I would not say the slingshot/powerstroke is a bad method. On many guns it’s slower, but on some guns it’s necessary, if one is a lefty it might be the best option, and if using many different guns it might be the best option.

Here’s my point. I refuse to let a firearm manufacturer dictate to me how I fight to save my life. That’s my decision. You do you.
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Old 02-04-2019, 06:44 PM
Gekko Gekko is offline
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Something I didn't see mentioned is the difference in the hardness between the metals of the slide stop lever and the slide.

The slide is much harder than the lever. Every time you use the lever to close the slide you are wearing away material. Eventually the tab on the lever will not fit the notch in the slide properly and will not hold the slide open.

The "eventually" will probably be a long time but, I don't want a failure if I'm defending myself.
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Old 02-04-2019, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Gekko View Post
Something I didn't see mentioned is the difference in the hardness between the metals of the slide stop lever and the slide.

The slide is much harder than the lever. Every time you use the lever to close the slide you are wearing away material. Eventually the tab on the lever will not fit the notch in the slide properly and will not hold the slide open.

The "eventually" will probably be a long time but, I don't want a failure if I'm defending myself.
Baloney. Prove it.
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  #45  
Old 02-04-2019, 07:13 PM
Gekko Gekko is offline
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If you can wear it in, why can't you wear it out?
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  #46  
Old 02-04-2019, 07:21 PM
Muss Muggins Muss Muggins is online now
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Originally Posted by gunny4053 View Post
I shook hands with Gen. Depuy, Gen. Schwarzkopf, Gen. George S. Patton, Jr., and Admiral Long.
Your profile page says you were born in 1953. Patton died in 1945. So . . . . ?
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  #47  
Old 02-04-2019, 07:49 PM
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handejector handejector is offline
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Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
Your profile page says you were born in 1953. Patton died in 1945. So . . . . ?

I would imagine he means Maj. Gen. George S. Patton, who commanded the Black Horse Cav in Vietnam. He was the son of George Jr.
Most people don't know the WW II general was a Jr because you seldom see it on his name.
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  #48  
Old 02-04-2019, 08:57 PM
Muss Muggins Muss Muggins is online now
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Originally Posted by handejector View Post
Most people don't know the WW II general was a Jr because you seldom see it on his name.
I do. And I weren’t in the Army . . .

Edit: I’ve shaken hands with Bush’s 41 and 43, so I don’t have the same confusion issue.
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Last edited by Muss Muggins; 02-04-2019 at 09:01 PM.
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  #49  
Old 02-05-2019, 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by jim46ok View Post
S&W says NOT.
No, they don't. People say this all the time, but it's a misnomer. There is nowhere that S&W says not to use the slide stop to release the slide. They recommend the slingshot method, but at no time do they try to dissuade anyone from using the slide stop to release the slide.

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Originally Posted by Gekko View Post
If you can wear it in, why can't you wear it out?
Yeah, you can't really wear it in either. Both metals are hard and you will never see a slide stop get worn out.

Rather than get "worn in," it's more likely the shooter is getting better at operating their gun.
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  #50  
Old 02-05-2019, 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
Your profile page says you were born in 1953. Patton died in 1945. So . . . . ?

Gen. George S. Patton (the son, officially listed as the IV. We referred to him as Jr, my bad) was the Commander of the 2nd Armored Division at Ft. Hood, Texas, 1977/1978. His father, Gen. George S. Patton, died in 1945.
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Last edited by gunny4053; 02-05-2019 at 02:40 AM.
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