Greetings all,

Been seeing a lot of hype in recent months surrounding the new Springfield Hellcat, Sig p365, and now the new Mossberg MC2. Curious if anyone has heard about S&W developing something new in this area?

Personally, I don't care about these micro guns; Period! I would prefer if S&W came out with medium sized single stacks or a stack and a half would be better. Example; the M&P 2.0 compact in a thinner profile would be perfect. So what is you went from 15 rounds to 12 or 13 but slimmed up the grip, slide and overall profile? Just my $0.02.
I recently purchased the Glock 48 which I think is amongst one of the best profiles while offering decent capacity, balance, weight and conceal ability.

Did you mean a Glock 48?

I have one of those and find that while the extra grip and barrel length makes it easier to shoot it makes it harder to conceal. I never carry it for that reason.

Given how popular the Sig P365 and Hellcat are Smith must be looking at making something similar. But if I had to guess I would say they are more likely to stick with the current Shield and compete on price.

I currently use a Glock 43 for carry but bought a Sig P365 a couple of weeks ago. I have only shot the 365 once but had a few failures to return to battery. The internet says this sometimes happens when they are new but stops occurring after a few hundred rounds but it was still very disappointing. In Sig's defense I did not clean and lube the gun before shooting it like I normally do since it seemed to have enough oil on it from the factory.

But the most important thing for a carry gun is reliability. The smaller and lighter a gun is the harder it is to make it reliable. The Shield being a couple of ounces heavier than its single stack competition helps with its reliability. S&W seems to emphasize reliability and cost over making the smallest possible gun with a high capacity which is the right thing to do. If the P365 doesn't stop having problems I am going to sell it. Capacity is nice but it isn't everything.

a P365 sized HAMMER fired [no safety & no precocked] would be my wish, though i know striker fired is the rage and will probably remain that way. when the P365 MS came out i bought one and have 450-500 rounds through it....trouble free. for a dyed in the wool hammer fired guy this is nearly blasphemy.

small enough for pocket carry in my every day Wranglers. bought another and in the process of breaking it in. the 12 round magazine works for pocket carry also.

think grown up .380 Body Guard [with improved trigger] in 9mm. chances of seeing this are same as my winning the lottery.

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I suspect S & W will be subject to market forces and feel the need to produce a double-stack subcompact. If they are really agile it may come out at the SHOT show but they have a habit of rolling out new products year round. Putting a wider lower on a Shield slide sounds easy but who knows.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Do I think they will.....no. Reason being they already have the M&P line, the compact line, the shield line and the EZ line. All of the current M&P style/product line guns are selling well and so long as they are making money on those products there isnt a real "profit" need for them.

Also at this point, as others have said, SIG, Glock, Springfield, Mossberg have all come out with their own "micro" pistols. The market right now is saturated with "micro compact" pistols and most people who really wanted that kind of gun have already bought one......so Smith would be tossing a new gun into a crowded field of people who already have a similar gun with different company name.

Of course there is a group of S&W ONLY guys who would drop Glock, Sig, Springfield in a second and buy the S&W version but that market likely isnt large enough to support the creation.

Not sure if it meets your definition of a "sub-compact" but they did recently release the M2.0 M&P 3.6 in 12rd (SKU's 12481/12482).

The shield is a proven go to war grade pistol. Yes, having 10 rounds in a small gun is a neat accomplishment but 2 more rounds isn’t enough to redesign the whole platform or make me switch. YMMV

I added the +1 magguts to my 8 round Shield magazine. now the gun is a 9+1 gun its a great all around package .

OP asked, "Will S&W come out with a 9mm double stack compact like the Hellcat, Mossberg MC2, etc".

They already have.

Here is my Model 469 from about the mid 80s. 9mm, 12 shot. It has been 100% reliable...

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The 469 is gargantuan compared to the 365.

I think they will. A slightly fatter-grip Shield will let them fit 10-12 in there. It'll be like a plastic 6906. And of course, I'd buy one.

There are always new shooters entering the fold so they’d be stupid not to. I love my Shield but I carry a Ruger LC9S usually because with carry, every ounce and inch matters and the 365 and Hellcat are smaller and lighter. The Shield is not a pocket gun unless I’m wearing roomy cargo shorts. The new “sub-compact” is hardly sub-compact. Taking the original compact and renaming it a subcompact doesn’t make it so and while it looks nice, it’s a belt gun and in my opinion redundant since the 3.6 Compact is virtually the same size and in a belt gun the small difference isn’t enough to bother me.

Mag-guts to bring the Shield closer to the 365? I know people like them but I don’t trust aftermarket for carry and if Mag-Guts can do it then S&W should be making new magazines to hold more ammo while staying same size. When I do carry my Shield it’s always the 7 round mag anyway because the 8 round mag is bigger and makes it even less of a pocket gun. What I would like is a slightly larger Bodyguard in a 9MM. I know some people hate the Bodyguard but that gun makes the 365 look huge. I can slip my Bodyguard into my pocket and completely forget it’s there. Now THAT’S a pocket gun!

The M&P line is a big success and a 365 size gun would be a hit. Making one would make me retire all other carry gun options other then OWB winter carry. Probably even then.

I was excited when S&W announced the 4" Shield but IMO they stopped short. They should have extended the grip so the 8 round 9mm magazine could be used without the spacer to allow a three finger grip and a reload without pinching the pinky. If they had done that I would have bought one. I know, it still would not have 10-12 round capacity but the pure single stack fits my hand well.

As it is I just bought a Glock 48. Not because of the 10 round magazine but because it fits my hand, has a three finger grip, and no pinch reload. Despite the fact that the Shield and G48 have the same height and the G48 is only about 3/4" longer OAL I expect that the Shield will remain my primary EDC.

But that would be a waste of time. Fatter grip equals more weight. The old compact or new “subcompact” are basically fatter grip Shields as it is. They need to design a new magazine that will be the same size as the Shield 7 round to hold at least 9. No extensions and no mag-guts. The 365 mag is a marvel. But time will tell if that magazine holds up I guess.

Well.... maybe so. I don't particularly like the feel of the 9 or 9c, but I really like the Shield 9 and 45. I've never thought of the Shield as a single-stack version of the 9, but maybe it is. I don't know.

I don't see them designing a new mag without redesigning the entire grip/mag well area. If Magguts can be used as an example of getting the most out of the existing space, then we can get 10 rounds into an 8-round mag and that's about it. (Maybe they can squeeze one more in there with yet another spring or follower redesign. Maybe.) The problem, if it is one, in redesigning the mag for the existing frame is P'ing off millions of current Shield owners who now have to shell out big bucks not for a brand-new gun, but because they now have a bunch of "obsolete" magazines. (I know, you'd think they'd be happy, but people don't think that way.) All IMO, of course.

At any rate, I've never really felt the need to stray from the S&W Reservation, so the new SIG or (God forbid) the "G" guns never appealed to me. I've also never felt inadequate because the 365 is higher capacity than my Shields, but like I said, if the Mothership came out with a different Shield, I'd probably fork over the $$$, and gladly.
OK, I've done enough rambling. Y'all have a good weekend.

I have no problems waiting. The 365 never felt good in my hands. Last weekend I held a hellcat, and frankly, I liked it. Didn't like it enough to drop 549usd on it at that shop. I have no problem waiting to see what other folks bring out. And yes these new pistols will become a standard of sorts.

I am happy with carrying my Shield 7+1 and don't particularly care about the new "Unicorn capacity craze." I carry at various times a 6+1 .380, a 7+1 9mm, and a 7+1 .45acp. Any one of them will do just fine, thanks.

You might like the CZ 2075 RAMI BD. It has a Decocker for double action first round. It is more expensive than the Shield, but has an aluminum frame.

CZ-USA CZ 2075 RAMI BD - CZ-USA

NOTE: The plain CZ 2075 RAMI has a Safety and runs Cocked and Locked.

MHO, with pistols of 7,8,11,12,13,15,17,18,19 round 9mm capacities - that I really like; why do I need a Hellcat?

It certainly can't be physical size, as I have smaller, similar, and larger offerings available.

Besides, Springfield died to me, when they dissed the 2nd ammendment.

that has been on my list of possibilities. i've never seen a CZ in my home town. it is not a pistol i'd buy without seeing and holding, though i've never heard or read derogatory comments about it. thanks for the input.

I think these will sell more 43Xs and 48s than anything.

https://shieldarms.com/glock-43x-48-15-round-mag

Personally, I don't think the Mossberg MC2 at 4.9" in height with a 13+1 capacity is in the same class or any real competition to the P365 or Hellcat because it's in the compact class. That's similar to a Glock 19, M&P M2.0 Compact, or Beretta PX4 Storm Compact. Even the Beretta is 5.0" with 15+1 capacity. The Gen3 and Gen4 Glocks were always advertised as 1.18" in width up until a few years ago with the release of the Gen5's (I still haven't solved that mystery), so a Glock G4 19 would have only been .08" wider and .10" taller with two more rounds. Smith & Wesson's Compacts are similar so I don't see any reason to compete with the MC2.

As far as Smith competing with the P365 and the Hellcat, yeah, I think they're going to come out with something eventually, but I personally do not care for these size pistols.

No matter how much these companies are bragging on designing these pistols around the magazines, I for one don't believe this is a recent major breakthrough. We're not talking rocket science here folks. We're talking about slight dimensional changes to magazines have been well within the firearms industry's wheelhouse for decades (if not longer). I personally believe technology is staggered out on purpose to keep fueling gun sales, but that's just my opinion and I don't wish to go off on a rant about it about it.

To me the P365 and Hellcat are too small. The Glock 26 and M&P9 M2.0 Subcompact are the perfect height for small pistols like this (in the 4.17"-4.3" range). The P365 and Hellcat being more or less in the same height category, are too light and small in other dimensions to be worth sacrificing the handling the these pistols IMHO as they are both small enough already.

For those who might think I am justifying purchases I made before the P365 and/or Hellcat were available, I just bought both a Smith & Wesson PC-ported M&P M2.0 Shield and an M&P9 M2.0 Subcompact when I could have just bought a P365 or Hellcat, but I chose to pay more for the Smiths because they do their jobs better in my opinion.

The Shield is slightly thinner and, just as important, slightly heavier, longer & high enough (providing room for 2.5 fingers) making for a better handling pistol and that conceals better appendix in my opinion (however marginal). Especially when lacking washboard abs, pistols that are too short in length tend to point inward even with the use of a wedge in my experience.

The M&P M2.0 Subcompact is technically the same height as the P365 with a flush magazine (4.3"). I carry a G26 or M&P Subcompact perfectly well OWB in a t-shirt. My shoulders are wide enough and my waste is narrow enough from side to side that those guns won't print in any significant way, but there is absolutely no question that both are less flippy (more controllable) than the P365 or Hellcat, so why would I need those pistols considering they don't have the track record of a Glock or Smith & Wesson M&P???

So in this case, I was happy to pay $800-$900 for these two pistols rather than $500 for a compromise pistol that won't shoot as well. Remember, 70% of accuracy goes out the window in a typical gunfight, so the handling characteristics of small pistols is nothing to take lightly. Even the Shield is more controllable than either the P365 or Hellcat, and that gives me an advantage over them for the first 8 or 9 rounds. If I can't solve the issue within that time frame, I hope I'm carrying my M&P Subcompact which has more capacity and capability than ether the P365 or Hellcat, and they're both proven to be uber reliable.