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Old 01-26-2020, 04:07 PM
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Default New to appendix carry?

I recently purchased an appendix holster for my Shield 9. What I am finding is that walking/moving around is fine, but, sitting is not comfortable. Haven't had this new holster very long at all, and not sure if I will stick with appendix carry.
Any tips or suggestions?
Thank you.
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Old 01-26-2020, 04:31 PM
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For my personal taste it is not my cup of tea. I never felt comfortable having anything that can make me sing soprano. It is all about what is good for your personal situation and if is comfortable then you are more app to have it with you than not. I have been carrying for years it just second nature, the key is to have a well made holster that not binding and gives to your movements.

Last edited by Rowlette; 01-26-2020 at 04:33 PM.
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Old 01-26-2020, 04:32 PM
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My recommendation is to wear it for a while to get it broken in. It takes a while to get the top and bottom edges curled over correctly to fit your body.
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Old 01-26-2020, 04:38 PM
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Try adjusting the ride height of the holster. When I started carrying appendix I had to adjust the clip on my holster.


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Old 01-26-2020, 04:47 PM
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I have carried Shield and Full Size M&P’s AIWB for almost four years now. I very much dislike carrying in any other position. I now find 4 o’clock behind my hip awkward and uncomfortable if forced to carry there.

First, it is going to feel different than other carry locations. There is a problem when it is uncomfortable, but it should not be uncomfortable when done correctly. However, you have not said what holster you have. That makes a big difference. Leather, Kydex, hybrid? What kind of belt and attachment?

Without you having defined what your discomfort is, some general AIWB advice includes (Kydex holster mostly):

Make sure the holster has no sharp edges. Cheaper ones do, especially down at the barrel end. Sand with 200 grit paper if needed.

Good stiff belt to support the holster. I like the infinitely adjustable Velcro-closed “rigger” belts, as precise, correct tension contributes to comfort. Even adjusting the belt by 1/4” during the day, loosening or tightening, can make a noticeable difference in comfort.

Make sure the holster attachment fits the belt (1.5”-1.5”).

1:30 position so the barrel of the gun is just to the left of your right hip. Farther right and it rides on the hip. Much farther left and it may contact your pubic bone. However, there is at least 1-2” of soft flesh between that front point of the hip and the pubic bone. You can make small adjustments of 1/2” repositioning on the belt for comfort during a day while you are adjusting to the feel of AIWB.

Add the loop side of adhesive Velcro to the back of the holster, especially down at the barrel end. This will soften the feel of the Kydex against you.

Taking it a step further, buy a closed cell foam wedge with a Velcro hook adhesive piece. Place it toward the bottom of the holster on the loop Velcro with the wide part of the wedge downward. This provides more comfort while also tipping the grip in toward your body, increasing concealment. Since this also tips the bottom of the holster away from your body, it is a little more assurance that when you slowly and carefully holster the gun, along with a slight forward push of your hips, the barrel will never be pointing toward your body.

I like to have a full sweat guard that protects me from any part of the slide that may be uncomfortable.

Make the commitment to keep trying. It is worth it.
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Last edited by CB3; 01-26-2020 at 04:59 PM.
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Old 01-26-2020, 04:53 PM
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I tried it for a while, but soon realized it just wouldn’t work if you have a gut.
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Old 01-26-2020, 05:20 PM
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Thanks to everyone for the replies.
CB3, Thank you for the very in depth reply. Looks like you sure are prepared for anything when you head out the door! Did you have your shield milled for the optic?
My holster and belt are both from Stealthgear. Black Friday deals.
I haven't given up yet, I will continue to wear it. I like the idea of the conceal-ability of appendix.
Almost forgot, the uncomfort is the rear of the gun in my abdomen when I sit down. Maybe I need to loosen my belt a little. I have played with the ride height and cant a bit.

Last edited by Tsb3; 01-26-2020 at 09:24 PM.
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Old 01-26-2020, 05:42 PM
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I carry my Shield at slightly behind 3:00, the thought of a handgun pointing at my junk makes me nervous...
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Old 01-26-2020, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsb3 View Post
Thanks to everyone for the replies.
CB3, Thank you for the very in depth reply. Looks like you sure prepared for anything when you head out the door! Did you have your shield milled for the optic? .
Yes, the slide is milled. Because of milling, the low profile Shield (brand) RMS red dot can be used with standard height iron sights for a 25% co-witness through the optic.
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Old 01-26-2020, 09:34 PM
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I'm 6' 3" and 300 lbs. Yes I have a gut after all every good tool needs a roof over it.

The only place I carry my Shield is 3 o'clock, maybe 3:15 in a Bianchi Pro 100 and a decent gun belt. Appendix carry wouldn't last 10 seconds.
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Old 01-26-2020, 11:54 PM
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Stealth gear makes a descent holster. CB3 gives some good advice. If I
were to get your brand of holster, I would get the one pictured below for
Appendix carry. Are you able to exchange it? JMO
I have carried many different guns AIWB over the years. At this time I
have a Taurus 856UL & S&W 9mm EZ that I carry (12-1 o’clock).
A good stiff gun belt and a single clip holster for me allows a comfortable
carry. It took me awhile to get used to that way of carrying. I have some
extra baggage around my middle, but belt tightness and the flexible
Sweat guard take care of any issues. P.S. I would Not get the Claw. You could add it later if needed. JMO
I carried a Shield 9mm for a few years in the same holster the Taurus is in now. NO Problem. 6’4”- 275lbs
I will be getting a Hidden Hybrid holster for the 9mm EZ when he makes them. I want the entire grip to be above the belt for a FULL combat grip. I always wear an untucked shirt.
Just ordered a Vedder LightTuck for my new S&W 380 Bodyguard (No laser).

——-UPDATE——Just got my Vedder holster today. Don’t know if I like the Claw yet.
-----UPDATE-----LOVE THE CLAW! Forget the Hidden Hybrid holster. Getting another Vedder holster!
They make one for the 9MM EZ no safety. Will be making one for
the gun with a safety soon? I sent a request.

Be SAFE and Shoot Often!
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Last edited by Execpro; 02-10-2020 at 07:04 PM.
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Old 01-27-2020, 10:11 AM
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I'm sure your body type makes a big difference in how comfortable AIWB carry will be for you. In my case I'm 5'6'' and 135 lbs and very comfortable with that style carry both moving and sitting. It does take a little while to get used to but I don't even notice it anymore.

At first I had a High Noon Mr Softy leather holster for my Shield and I tried a couple different positions before I found that the best for me was pretty far forward at about the 12:30 position. I don't worry about the holstered gun pointing at my private parts. I only carry guns with a thumb safety and the holster completely covers the trigger guard so I can't imagine how I'd accidentally shoot myself with it.

I don't have a fancy super stiff gun belt, in fact I bought my belt at the Family Dollar store for $6. It's leather and 1 3/8" wide and works fine in my eyes.

After I'd gotten comfortable with the Shield I bought a Compact 9 with 4" barrel and found out that I shoot it better, like how it feels in my hand, and the extra capacity doesn't hurt either. I wasn't sure if the longer barrel would make it uncomfortable to AIWB carry but I bought another Mr Softy holster so I could try it. Now the Compact is my EDC as it's just as comfortable as the Shield, and I find neither the extra weight nor the longer barrel to be a problem.

Everybody is different, I just wanted to share my experience since you asked for tips or suggestions.

Last edited by mmb617; 01-27-2020 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 01-27-2020, 12:31 PM
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I carry AIWB and currently, it is with a Vedder LightTuck and a P365. I found you need to have a good holster that has a lot of adjustability for both ride height and cant. I am 6'3" and 200# with not much of a gut.
AIWB is perfect for me as I can draw from a seated position without a lot of movement.
This combo is perfect for me. BTW, the claw on the side really helps keep the gun close to the body.

Last edited by gnystrom; 01-27-2020 at 12:32 PM.
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Old 01-27-2020, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CB3 View Post
Yes, the slide is milled. Because of milling, the low profile Shield (brand) RMS red dot can be used with standard height iron sights for a 25% co-witness through the optic.
My personal rig is similar to CB3. I carry at 1pm due to my hip bone structure. As I have a Shield RMS on my G26, I am presently using a kydex holster covered with faux leather. Kydex can be Especially painful at AIWB.

I do second the High Noon Mr Softy if that works. I donít think it is real leather, but is soft and flexible enough to really help. It is a nice in between... more structure than a suede holster but less than a traditional Smooth leather.

Honestly, carrying a gun is a pain. For me, the weapon control, concealment and access make it worth it to AIWB. I have carried ankle, pocket, 3:00, shoulder holster, Small of back and probably a few others. AIWB is the closest to the ideal ability to access in a car, a booth, on your back, etc. The point is people weigh tactics and techniques differently- I just want access in the maximum situations. Sometimes that comes with a cost of occasional pain.
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Old 01-27-2020, 05:36 PM
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I appendix carry a lot. Never tried the Stealthgear holsters before but I find that what works best for me is an all leather IWB holster, preferably with an offset clip. This is one I'm using for a J frame by Ted Blocker and I'm seated in my truck. Never have experienced discomfort while sitting or standing. I even appendix carry full size pistols and K and L frame revolvers.

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Old 01-28-2020, 08:59 PM
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This video is a much watch for larger folks who want to appendix carry -
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Old 01-29-2020, 01:07 AM
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You might want to look into something like this by Urban Carry....

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Old 01-29-2020, 12:36 PM
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Appendix does not work for me. It's either jabbing my leg when I sit down, or jabbing my abs when I bend over.
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Old 02-03-2020, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlawler View Post
I tried it for a while, but soon realized it just wouldnít work if you have a gut.
I am also "girth challenged" and believe me that finding a good CC holster for someone of my size was NOT easy. Appendix carry was an epic failure due to my belly and sitting down made it almost impossible - and uncomfortable - to draw; hip carry (both inside and outside my waistband) was uncomfortable when drawing because I had to "lift" the pistol vertically and I have a bum shoulder; Small of Back carry was forever a problem because my shirt would ride up revealing the pistol (a problem for us larger guys), it was impossible to draw when sitting, and it was uncomfortable to twist my arm to get the proper grip.

Fortunately for me I live in the same town as The Holster Store (.net) and was able to collaborate with them on designing a holster that overcame my particular issues. I do NOT work for them or represent them in any way. I designed a holster than I wear OWB at the 4:00 position that holds my pistol horizontally (in line with my belt) - but the butt of the pistol faces UPWARD so it appears upside-down on my hip.

This position and location is easy for me to conceal and allows me to wear it under even a shorter shirt (which won't ride up my hip when I bend over, plus nothing extends below the lower edge of my belt at any time), I can easily draw when sitting (not blocked by my belly for appendix carry or the back of the chair for Small of Back carry), and I don't have to either lift the pistol upward or twist my wrist to get the proper grip to draw. The drawing motion is a simple arc pivoting at the elbow that translates the pistol from upside-down to right-side-up without any twisting and your arm can be kept tucked in to your side if you are in close quarters. They don't advertise it on their site, but you can certainly call and ask about the Pro Carry BB (for Big Belly) holster if it sounds like something that may interest you. I own the very first one and I love it!

Hope this helps.
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Old 02-05-2020, 07:46 PM
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Could never comfortably AWIB a full compact, end of barrel a constant poke when sitting.
Since I am much quicker deploying my firearm AWIB, especially when driving or wearing a winter coat, then at 3/4 o'clock IWB or OWB, went to smaller yet effective firearms that work well carried that way.
A 642 in a Lobo offset clip leather and a P365 in an offset clip Dara Minimalist kydex, both very comfortable while driving.
The offset clip makes for reduced belt bulge = less printing and belt pressure.

Last edited by LCC; 02-05-2020 at 07:50 PM.
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Old 02-05-2020, 08:09 PM
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I used appendix carry while working part time in a hobby store because I was on my feet for eight hours a day. It works for smaller guns. People who are short-trunked will experience more discomfort than more normal or long-trunked individuals.

My advisory is to make sure your holster is securely fastened to your belt to insure that gun and holster doesn't ride up and out of your pants.
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Old 02-05-2020, 09:04 PM
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Try 12:00 or 12:30. Also, I second the suggestion of a leather holster.
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Old 02-05-2020, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric300 View Post
You might want to look into something like this by Urban Carry....

YouTube
Please don't use the Urban Carry or any of those other gimmick magnet holsters


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Old 02-10-2020, 12:32 AM
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Please don't use the Urban Carry or any of those other gimmick magnet holsters

YouTube


^^^THIS^^^
Urban Carry holsters are garbage. Stay away from the gimmicky junk like that.
I really hope Eric300 was joking with his suggestion of Urban Carry holsters, but I know he was serious. These products are going to get you killed, or youíll shoot yourself trying to use them. Itís scary that this **** exist and that people are dumb enough to buy them and use them.
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Old 02-10-2020, 11:57 AM
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If you want to modify your holster, a wedge at the bottom like CB3 said is easy and cheap (Dr. Scholls heel inserts work as well). Or, buy one with the features made specifically for AIWB. I recommend Keepers Concealment. Expensive, but it is my favorite. Spencer Keeper is big guy, and he carries his full-size Glock in his own gear. It can be comfortable, and very concealable, with the right gear. Others to try - JM Custom, and Dale Fricke. I've heard T-Rex Arms makes a good one, but I don't personally have one. I CCW AIWB almost every day with a Keepers. YMMV.

Keepers Concealment
JM Custom Kydex
Dale Fricke Holsters - Custom Kydex Holsters and Mag Pouches

Last edited by Motorsporting; 02-14-2020 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 02-10-2020, 04:59 PM
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A fit body will make AWIB easier. Body type, ride height, cant, pistol dimensions, all play a role.

I think playing to your strength is critical in this realm, if it isn't working, pursue a more appropriate method of carry for your body type and firearm.

The more factors you have add in order to make carry comfortable, the less likely you will regularly have your pistol on you..

+1 on avoiding UrbanCarry. A holster is a critical piece of equipment, if it is as hidden as the footsteps of a navy seal, you do not want it in your pants
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Old 02-10-2020, 05:50 PM
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AIWB seems to be the current rage for all of the ex-military trainers so it has to be the ultimate doesn't it?

Not for me..........if it works for you then go for it! I don't really care how YOU carry.

Randy
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Old 02-10-2020, 07:06 PM
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I don’t normally comment on things, but for the appendix carry topic I just have to ask, how does anyone whether fit or not carry this way without pointing the muzzle at themselves? Every instruction I have ever watched says to watch your muzzle and not point it at any part of your body. With this carry method, it is pointing at your leg when standing and worse if sitting. I am not fit nor fat but still can’t even have a holster without a gun in that position without discomfort. I’m all for carry whatever works best for you but just can’t see it from a safety point of view.
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Old 02-10-2020, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chev37s View Post
I donít normally comment on things, but for the appendix carry topic I just have to ask, how does anyone whether fit or not carry this way without pointing the muzzle at themselves?
This is an accurate observation about where the muzzle may be pointing when the gun is holstered. Everyone who has thought about, actually tried or chooses to carry AIWB struggles with this initially.

The dominant explanation is that a handgun safely holstered in a good (almost always Kydex) holster cannot fire when it is stored in there. Since the trigger cannot be manipulated or the cocked hammer/striker dropped to ignite a primer, no matter where it is pointed it is not going to go off.

You can carry AIWB with a DA revolver. Itís not going off once safely in the holster.

You can carry a DA/SA semi auto hammer down. Itís not going off once safely in the holster.

You can carry a semi auto with a manual safety that blocks the striker/hammer and/or trigger until deactivated, which will not happen when safely holstered.

The corollary question is, ďHow do you holster safely without pointing the muzzle at some part of your body?Ē

The exact same way you holster in any other carry position.

While standing, visually clear the path to the rigidly open holster mouth, carefully and slowly insert the gun with your finger off the trigger, tipping the holster away from your body if necessary. Donít allow the gun to point at your body during this process.

Because of the easy visual and tactile access to an AIWB holster, such a careful holstering is actually as safe or safer than trying to put a gun away behind your hip IWB with a covering garment.

Handguns have been carried in this position just about since they were invented. The position is not new or a passing fad. As with every carrying position, it is not for everybody. However, most of the supposed negatives are overcome with good training and equipment. The equipment we have today, belts and holsters as well as safe guns, make this an effective means of carrying a handgun for self defense.

That does not mean all other forms of carry are wrong or outdated. It is just another option based on many factors of concealed carry. However, too often folks make incorrect judgments based on assumptions or poor information. The hard and fast muzzle rule is a very good one and no one should be chastised for observing it very strictly.
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Old 02-10-2020, 10:00 PM
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I carry weak side cross draw IWB, since I'm left handed I'll call it that. I am slim & have carried OWB and IWB in this manner for years. It's very secure., avoids printing very well unless your doing back bends or calypso. I will also add that whether it's IWB or OWB, the chances of someone grabbling your weapon is slim...it's right there, you can rest your hand across your belt & cover the gun safely, whether it's concealed or not. You can bend over all day long, no gun mashing your kidney, no printing.

When sitting I simply slide slightly or tilt the holster more to my off side so when my hip flexes the holster & gun is oriented more to the outside., ie right hip butt forward that way it doesn't push the muzzle into my thigh...the DeSantis allows adjustment of kant..the standard kydex will do the same so long as the belt clip is solid., one simply shifts or tilts the holster orientation to adjust., your belt & holster will stay in the position most times by virtue of the friction, compression imparted by the belt & pants.

I use a Badger IWB Kydex & before that as Desantis supertuck which is useful for wearing a tucked in shirt with this mode of carry. I agree that body type plays a big part in comfort & feasibility.
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Old 02-10-2020, 11:15 PM
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I've been carrying AIWB for near 40 years (off duty mostly and retired). I do carry other methods but in most circumstances AIWB makes most sense and is most practical. I'm 6'+ and 220 so yeah I have a gut now.

I usually use a cheap Galco StownGo, at least I think that's the model. It's not perfect. A sweat guard would be nice. It grabs the belt nicely and when it needs to be lower for more concealment it can be slipped off the belt and onto the pants and it grabs them very well too (jeans anyhow).

My only real complaint is due to the rear sight on the shield having such sharp corners that can poke and scrape my mussel roll in certain circumstances.

I've successfully used and do use other holsters with other guns but the Galcos are economical and do work well.

For most concealed guns and holsters I strongly recommend the following: Whenever the gun is drawn, to holster it, remove the holster, holster the gun, and then place the holstered gun back where you wear it. When carrying a gun with a manual safety I will rarely cheat and engage the safety, holster, check that there's no binding and then disengage the safety. That obviously doesn't apply to 1911 family, etc.
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Old 02-12-2020, 04:25 PM
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AIWB seems to be the current rage for all of the ex-military trainers so it has to be the ultimate doesn't it?

Not for me..........if it works for you then go for it! I don't really care how YOU carry.

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Well, objectively it is the fastest body position to draw from from concealment (and no not IDPA beige shooting vest over an OWB holster concealment) and it positions the weapon such that you are best able to control access to the weapon should you end up tangled up in a fight. So yes there are data driven reasons for its popularity and prevalence.

In fact the video from the recent Texas shooting is a tragic reminder of the limitations of small of the back carry. Had that first gentleman had a faster draw from a more accessible body position, he may still be alive.
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Old 02-12-2020, 06:37 PM
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Big guy here (6'3" 290lbs) and I find the smaller the firearm, the more uncomfortable it is to carry AIWB. Granted, that is the only way I carry, but the sweet spot for me for maximum comfort (I spend about 75% of my day either driving a car or a desk) is something with a 3.5" to 4" barrel. Anything less than 3.5" feels uncomfortable.

My normal EDC is my 2.0 Compact 4" in AWIB RH. Like CB3 stated, the holster and belt are very important to carry comfort, but to a great degree with appendix carry. I have also found that the pants make a difference as well. You want to make sure that the pants fit comfortably with the firearm in place, but you don't want them loose. This took a lot of trial and error for me, but I found pants in the right size that make even carrying my Beretta comfortable.
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Old 02-12-2020, 07:02 PM
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Iíve experimented (wasted a lot of money) with a lot of different belts for AIWB. In my experience the best belt is The Foundation Belt by Langdon Tactical. Itís built specifically for AIWB carry, so itís firm where it needs to be (without being TOO stiff) while also being flexible in the spots where you donít want it to be overly firm. I definitely recommend checking it out:
The Foundation Belt - Langdon Tactical



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Old 02-12-2020, 07:17 PM
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I’ve experimented (wasted a lot of money) with a lot of different belts for AIWB. In my experience the best belt is The Foundation Belt by Langdon Tactical. It’s built specifically for AIWB carry, so it’s firm where it needs to be (without being TOO stiff) while also being flexible in the spots where you don’t want it to be overly firm. I definitely recommend checking it out:
The Foundation Belt - Langdon Tactical



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Oh man I've been needing a new slimmer belt, because mine prints a bit with a holster. This is exactly what I've been looking for. Thank you!
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Old 02-12-2020, 07:25 PM
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Oh man I've been needing a new slimmer belt, because mine prints a bit with a holster. This is exactly what I've been looking for. Thank you!

Yep that flat, low profile buckle is great. I hate how so many gun belts have these giant *** oversized buckles that print like crazy, drawing unnecessary attention to an area you donít want people closely looking at.
Itís one thing a lot of concealed carriers get wrong. You donít need an uber stiff belt with a massive cobra belt buckle. Youíre not an operator trying to carry a full size gun and tons of other gear thatís all worn OWB. Those belts are not meant for concealed carry.



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Old 02-12-2020, 09:17 PM
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You’re not an operator trying to carry a full size gun and tons of other gear that’s all worn OWB. Those belts are not meant for concealed carry.
I tried a Langdon about a year and a half ago. The low profile buckle is a good idea. However, I found it didn’t hold adjustment despite the Velcro and the thinner layers were not stiff enough for me. Maybe newer versions have different stiffening because it was a common complaint. Might be OK for a light load.

I prefer the stiff heavier duty nylon web belts. I don’t find the buckle interferes with concealed carry. I am not an operator, but this how I carry my full size pistol AIWB, fixed blade knife and hi-cap spare mag (and phone) all day:
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:25 PM
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@CB3 that buckle area profile looks pretty big. Iím a thin person and I hate when a buckle sticks out that far, and when my shirt lay against it, it creates a big ďshelfĒ. It looks very unnatural and draws unwanted attention. I carry a Shield in a T1C Axis Elite holster, spare mag, and sometimes a Kabar TDI knife. The Foundation Belt is perfect for this light load.

If you liked the Foundation Belt but want something a little stiffer, check out the Mastermind Tactics/Graith belts. I have one in size 34 that I donít use anymore if you are interested in one.
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Old 02-15-2020, 10:18 PM
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The dominant explanation is that a handgun safely holstered in a good (almost always Kydex) holster cannot fire when it is stored in there.
With all due respect to CB3, this statement is accurate until it isn't. Safeties are mechanical devices. The gun is a mechanical device. All mechanical devices can fail. Yes, even a spoon can fail. This is why rule #2 is so important: Never cover anything with the muzzle you don't want to destroy.

Enough verbiage. If this video doesn't give you pause, continue carrying AIWB angst free...

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Old 02-16-2020, 01:49 AM
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That video is an example of why for IWB I say to always to remove holster, holster the gun and then stow the holstered gun back where you carry it.

And I like a good fairly stiff leather belt.

Last edited by oink; 02-16-2020 at 02:02 AM.
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Old 02-16-2020, 07:47 PM
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That video is an example of why for IWB I say to always to remove holster, holster the gun and then stow the holstered gun back where you carry it.

And I like a good fairly stiff leather belt.
I don't see how that would alter the outcome here. The guy properly loaded, checked and inserted the gun.

Personally I believe this to be a simple malfunction of the gun. If it hadn't been pointed at the owner, no one gets hurt.
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Old 02-16-2020, 11:30 PM
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I'm ASSUMING that was a striker fired gun. In which case something pulled the trigger. I'm guessing some clothing got in the holster and partially pulled the trigger when he holstered. Then when he bent over enough further tension on the gun or clothing finished the job. Probably his abdomen pushed down on the grip forcing the trigger further against the obstruction. I like to be able to see and independently feel the gun seat inside an unobstructed holster. Then stow the holstered gun. Too risky otherwise. You can blow off the family jewels or even sever the femoral artery nice and high where even with compression it'd be hard to stop the flow. I'll play it safe.
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Old 02-17-2020, 01:28 AM
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You can blow off the family jewels or even sever the femoral artery nice and high where even with compression it'd be hard to stop the flow. I'll play it safe.
But, just to be clear, you carry AIWB, right?
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Old 02-17-2020, 02:01 AM
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The consequences of carelessness for AIWB carry can be greater than for other carry positions. I believe everyone would prefer a bullet in the butt, next to the hip or down a leg rather than in a femoral artery or one's maleness.

This man in the video failed to follow safe holstering rules in two ways:

1. He did not clear the path to the mouth of his holster. As I recall in the original video, which was much clearer and longer than the short clip in this thread, he had a t-shirt on under his polo. That t-shirt bunched up over the mouth of the holster, obstructing it.

2. Because he did not clear the path to the holster, when he pushed the gun into the holster, he pushed the t-shirt into the trigger guard. At this point in the original video, you can see him wiggle and force the gun because it didn't feel right. It was not all the way seated in the holster because of the t-shirt interfering. He should have stopped right then, his second chance to avoid injury, but he did not. He left the gun slightly out of the holster with the t-shirt already starting to pull the trigger.

When he bent over, he pushed the grip of the gun down into the holster just enough to finish pulling the trigger. The gun discharged because the trigger was pulled through his negligence. The gun did not go off by itself. There was no mechanical failure.

This kind of carelessness would have caused the gun to discharge if it was carried in any other position also. In fact, he might have had more of a chance of avoiding these two mistakes by carrying up front because of the potential ease of seeing the holster and feeling the obstruction.

In addition to being negligent with holstering safety rules, he apparently violated Cooper's Rule #2--Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. "Never" is an absolute word connoting no exceptions.

I did not hear the extent of his injuries. It could have been anything from an uncomfortable muzzle blast to his privates as the bullet passed by to actual torn flesh and blood of a most serious type, although as he was treated it did not appear this was the case.

There are videos involving guns and holsters and people shooting themselves in all carry positions. There are even more reports with and without photos in the press. Then there are additional instances that we just don't know about because they are unreported.

The great thing about human intelligence is we can learn from others' mistakes and avoid them ourselves.

I made a statement earlier that a handgun put away safely into a good quality, modern holster that retains the gun and protects the trigger will not fire by itself. I believe this is true, even if a "safety" breaks, because modern guns have redundant safeties to avoid just such mishaps. Unless the trigger is pulled somehow while a gun is in a holster, it will not go off. If you carry a gun that you believe will go off after being safely holstered, get a different gun.

Get the gun into the holster safely, and no matter where you carry it will not fire until you manipulate the gun. Leave it alone and you are safe. The video above does nothing to detract from that statement.

No matter where you holster carry, you will muzzle yourself sometimes. Go to a class where people are using holsters and you will see muzzling happening all day. Think about your body. Could your leg or butt ever get down in front of an IWB 4 o'clock carry position? Do you have a roll of fat that pushes the grip of the gun away from you a little at times, pointing the muzzle in toward you?

So is the solution to perfect observance of Rule #2 not to carry? No. The solution is to carry safely, recognizing and minimizing the risks. Follow safe holstering rules in addition to the four basic safety rules, but understand that there are exceptions to the application of all rules that are situationally dependent.

My long guns in my safe at home are unloaded and pointed up. Rule #1 says treat them as if they are loaded. OK. On the floor directly above the safe is a toilet. The guns are pointing at the toilet. Rule #2 violation? Technically, yes. Practically, no. The guns will not fire themselves when stored in the safe, even if they were loaded.

My guns do not point at my flesh when I holster in any carry position, including AIWB. Once my gun is safe in my holster, I accept the fact that my gun firing in my holster (possibly while pointed at something important of mine) is so infinitesimally small as to not bother me. That's my choice, and I'm good with it.

I just seriously doubt that anyone who carries concealed can honestly say they have never violated Rule #2 while carrying.

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Old 02-17-2020, 11:43 AM
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Everyone would prefer not to be shot.

When a round is chambered, the chances of a gun firing are never zero.

Rule #2 is properly stated: Never cover anything with the muzzle you're not willing to destroy.

Note that this rule doesn't say, "Never cover anything with the muzzle." The fact that the muzzle exists means it's covering something, always. So, do the best you can to not cover something that will have catastrophic results in the event of a negligent discharge (ND).

People are human and make mistakes. Complacency gets us all at one time or another. Following the 4 basic rules reduces the chances of being shot negligently/accidentally as low as possible.

Carrying a gun is a risk. How you carry that gun is a factor in risk assessment. How YOU choose to carry is a personal choice. It's just important to realize that there are consequences to our choices. Don't fool yourself into thinking there's zero risk.

The result of the video I posted was not horrific. He didn't die and didn't lose any body parts. It's just a dramatic view of what could happen.
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Old 02-17-2020, 12:31 PM
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any semi-auto I carry AWIB must have a manual safety or I will not carry it that way, which is why I waited for Sig to come out with a P365 w/ safety before I bought one. Accidents can happen, and as an aging elder with slowng reflexes and progressively less practice time, a manual safety will greatly reduce the chances of having one.
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Old 02-17-2020, 01:16 PM
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But, just to be clear, you carry AIWB, right?
Yes, but carefully. I wouldn't have done what the guy in the video did. You would have seen me remove the holster, holster the gun while clearly observing my actions and having made sure the holster was unobstructed and then re-stow the holstered gun. It's bit of a pain but the extra precaution necessary if you want to avail yourself the advantages of AIWB.

I will confess that many years ago I frequently carried what is sometimes referred to as Mexican style. In my defense it was a 669, a gun with a safety and a long fairly heavy trigger pull.
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Old 02-18-2020, 09:51 AM
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any semi-auto I carry AWIB must have a manual safety or I will not carry it that way, Accidents can happen, and as an aging elder with slowng reflexes and progressively less practice time, a manual safety will greatly reduce the chances of having one.
I'm also an older guy and feel the same way. I would never carry a gun without a thumb safety unless it was without a round in the chamber and I feel having a round chambered and thumb safety on is the better option.

At the range I'm so used to swiping the safety off before firing that I don't think it would be an issue if I ever had to use my gun for self defense. It helps that the Compact I carry has a large easily accessible safety lever.

To be clear, I know some guys like to holster the gun with the safety on then flip it off once the gun is in the holster. I keep the safety on the whole time even when it's in the holster. The only time the safety comes off is when I have the gun in my hands and in firing position aiming at a target.
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Old 02-18-2020, 10:17 AM
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This thread and the video convinced me I never want to appendix carry, I've always carried on my right hip with a thumb break holster and I think I'll keep it that way. And yes, include me in the group who likes a thumb safety.

Last edited by Farmer17; 02-18-2020 at 10:18 AM.
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Old Yesterday, 02:25 PM
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With all due respect to CB3, this statement is accurate until it isn't. Safeties are mechanical devices. The gun is a mechanical device. All mechanical devices can fail. Yes, even a spoon can fail. This is why rule #2 is so important: Never cover anything with the muzzle you don't want to destroy.

Enough verbiage. If this video doesn't give you pause, continue carrying AIWB angst free...

This video is older, and there was (not sure if anything has been updated beyond the, "my friend knows the guy and ...") widespread belief that it was falsified. If you watch the reactions and consider the setup, too many things appear ... weird. It does/has brought good conversation about proper ways to safely holster for AIWB, and this guy doesn't do it. If we think his G43 (I think that's the gun) had a legitimate malfunction, and it's not "user error," then this brings pause to all manors of carrying a gun, regardless of AIWB (I also don't want a round traveling down my leg and shattering my ankle, or discharging behind me as I walk through a crowd, or ...).
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