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Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols All Variants of the Smith & Wesson M&P Auto Series


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Old 02-01-2020, 11:09 PM
Dahak Dahak is offline
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2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations  
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Default 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations

I've been suspecting it for a while but had it confirmed today. My 4" M&P 2.0 9mm is shooting low (point of impact 4 inches low at 15 yds). The confirmation came from the instructor at a class I was attending. My results are even lower and left from there but that is a result of my trigger pull (I'm a leftie and have been assigned my dry fire homework). My shooting gave rise to the suspicion, but I am inconsistent - he made a beautiful group after shooting my weapon as he doubted that I could be jerking the trigger THAT much

Is there a way to shift the elevation of my stock sights? If not, how do I select aftermarket sights that shift my point of impact?

I think I would like fiber optic sights, or at least a fiber optic front sight. This is for my daily carry weapon.

Thanks!
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Old 02-02-2020, 04:18 PM
1sailor 1sailor is offline
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2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations  
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Novak has quite a bit of info on their website. Try the link below and scroll down Novak's page until you find the info on sight heights. Before changing sights though I'd make absolutely certain that your Shield is shooting low. Try it from a rest first.
Sights 101
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Old 02-02-2020, 04:50 PM
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2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations  
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What bullet weight/velocity of 9 mm are you using? You may want to try a lower velocity round if your current ones are not standard pressure 115 or 124 gr; slower will probably print higher. Also make sure the firmness of your hold is consistent; gripping it too tightly will make lower groups.
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Old 02-03-2020, 08:19 AM
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2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations  
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As murphydog said, try a heavier grain load and it will impact higher on the target.
My .45 Shield was printing 4 inches high with 230 grain but I tried some 200 grain at they hit dead on.
My PC Shield 9mm hits 4 inches low at 20 yards with 124 grain, so I'm going to try some 147 grain and they should hit higher up.

If you decide to get some new sights, fiber optic like the ones that came on my PC Shield are nice. But for what you'd pay for the Hi-Viz fiber optic, you can get sights that are fiber Optic AND Tritium.
A set of Tru-Glo FO/Tritium are $76 (shipping included) on Amazon, the best of both worlds. They glow nicely both day and night.

But you don't get your choice of front sight heights, so you'll still need to try some different bullet weights to get your elevation dead on.
Here are the Tru-Glo TFO's on my pistols:


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Old 02-03-2020, 08:34 AM
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Dawson Precision has front sights in different heights. Contact them and tell where you are grouping shots and where you want to be and they'll recommend a sight height
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Old 02-03-2020, 09:23 AM
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2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations  
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sanddog. Thanks for showing us those sights as installed, especially in the daylight.

Are a set of those something we can install or do they require a gunsmith (milling, etc)?
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Old 02-03-2020, 02:17 PM
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Try from a rest and if it is low then I would contact S&W about it. It should not be any where near that far off.
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Old 02-03-2020, 06:13 PM
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2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations  
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Depending how much you like to tinker and if you have a dial caliper you can get the perfect rear sight height by experimenting. Cut some narroe little strips of electrical tape so they are the same width as the tops of your rear sight. Put a strip on each side. Run up the front across the top and down the rear. Doesn't need to be pretty, just don't mess w/ the width of the notch. Once you build the sight hi enough that you're hitting where you want, pull the tape and measure it's thickness. Now you know how much taller a rear sight you need.
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Old 02-03-2020, 06:30 PM
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2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations  
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Do you place the front sight dot over the target you want to hit? If you are using the traditional six o'clock hold the gun will shoot low. Most contemporary pistols are sighted this way.
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Old 02-03-2020, 08:07 PM
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2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptf18 View Post
sanddog. Thanks for showing us those sights as installed, especially in the daylight.

Are a set of those something we can install or do they require a gunsmith (milling, etc)?
Getting the rear sight out is easy, the front sights on M&P's are a real bear to get out.
I had a good sight pusher ($130) but it was not good enough.
When trying to push out the front sight, it just started bending the push shaft. I ended up knocking the front sight out with a brass punch and hammer.

Once out, you can install your new sights, most likely they won't be near as tight as the factory front sight.
If it is, file a bit at a time off of the bottom until it will go part way into the dovetail. Then drift over the rest of the way.
Be careful, as you don't want to mar your slide, or hit the TFO capsule with your punch.

The brass punch will leave brass marks on the side of your sight, most of it will come off with a bit of oil on a rag.
Some prefer to use an aluminum punch to drift sights.
I put the Tru-Glo TFO's on my new 5 inch MP9 as soon as I got it home:
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Old 02-03-2020, 08:29 PM
1sailor 1sailor is offline
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2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations  
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I agree with the usefulness of the TFO or TFX sights from tru-glo. I install them routinely on any semi auto's I own. The attached pic helps to show how easy they are to see. This pic was taken indoors in front of a window on an overcast day. I am in front of the window but there is no direct sunlight.
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Old 02-04-2020, 09:41 AM
Dahak Dahak is offline
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2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations  
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Thanks for all the info. I'll be giving S&W a call and then looking at Dawson and Tru-glow depending on what response I get.
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Old 02-04-2020, 11:06 AM
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This discussion is interesting to me as my 2.0 Compact 9 with 4 inch barrel also shoots low if I line the three dots up. I've never tried firing from a rest but standing with a two handed grip it's consistently a couple inches low at 10 yards. I usually shoot 115 grs but tried 124's as well without any noticeable difference. I've never tried 147's.

Since the Compact is my carry gun it's the one I shoot the most anytime I go to the range and what I've done to correct the problem is gotten into the habit of making a small triangle with the sights with the front dot just above the rear two. I do that all the time so it's become habit. Yesterday I was shooting at 25 yards instead of my usual 10 and was happy to see that my triangle sighting was still putting rounds where they should be at the longer distance.

I've started reloading and have noticed that I get tighter groups with my reloads (115 grs), but I still need to do the triangle sighting to put the rounds high enough.
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Old 02-04-2020, 04:16 PM
ptf18 ptf18 is offline
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2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations  
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sanddog. Upon reading your prior post about the Tru-Glo TFO's sights I "cruised" the 'net to make certain that a set would fitup on the Sheild I have.

Having too much time on my hands and thus spending it "surfing" I came across purchasers of these sights who mentioned that the quality of the Tru-Glo TFO's were alot less than what the purchasers expected.

You seem quite happy with them. Would you have gone a different route (manufacturer) if you had to do it over again?
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Old 02-04-2020, 04:27 PM
1sailor 1sailor is offline
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2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations  
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I think that a lot of peoples disappointment may have to do with visibility indoors. Even under a bright light they are nowhere near as bright as they are in natural light. Other than that I cannot imagine why anyone would be having any issues. Truglo has a newer version out than what I have. They're called TFX or TFX extreme. In addition to the tritium and fiber optic they also have a white dot surrounding the FO rod giving the same usefulness that you would get with a white dot front sight. I have installed TFO's on my Sig P220, two shields, a 1911, and an M&P40 and I have never been disappointed with that decision. Their newest version is also sealed so that the FO rods can't be attacked by any cleaning solvents. As far as quality issues go I cannot even imagine what problems they're having. I typically shoot between 700 and 1000 rounds per month for most of the year. That means that since having installed those sights any of those pistols has been fired between a few thousand and several thousand rounds with ZERO issues or regrets. A couple of years ago I was offered a great price on a CZ PCR but turned it down because at that time at least TFO sights were unavailable for it.

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Old 02-04-2020, 08:51 PM
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2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations  
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ptf18, I also can't see any quality issues with the Tru-Glo's.
If some are expecting the sights to be brighter indoors, it sounds like they are nit-picking. They are everything I expected them to be, and I'm buying another set for my .45 Shield.
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Old 02-05-2020, 01:15 PM
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2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahak View Post
I've been suspecting it for a while but had it confirmed today. My 4" M&P 2.0 9mm is shooting low (point of impact 4 inches low at 15 yds). The confirmation came from the instructor at a class I was attending. My results are even lower and left from there but that is a result of my trigger pull (I'm a leftie and have been assigned my dry fire homework). My shooting gave rise to the suspicion, but I am inconsistent - he made a beautiful group after shooting my weapon as he doubted that I could be jerking the trigger THAT much

Is there a way to shift the elevation of my stock sights? If not, how do I select aftermarket sights that shift my point of impact?

I think I would like fiber optic sights, or at least a fiber optic front sight. This is for my daily carry weapon.

Thanks!
Are you sure you understand the sight picture with combat sights? A lot of folks don't and they complain that their pistol shoots low. Btw, just because someone works at a range doesnt mean they're used to combat sights.
I still screw it up because I switch between pistols and forget that with my M&P, the bullet goes where the front dot points - not top of the blade.
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Old 02-05-2020, 06:31 PM
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2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations  
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Dahak, what sight picture are you using? Everything I have read about M&P pistols has said to use sight image 3 in the drawing below. Sight images 1 & 2 in the drawing will both cause you to hit low.
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Old 02-05-2020, 07:06 PM
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2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations  
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Dahak, you can buy adjustable sights also. A little pricey at $134 but what the heck it's only money.

S&W - M&P - Lumanova Adjustable Sight Set

S&W - M&P - Lumanova Adjustable Sight Set

S&W - M&P - White Dot Adjustable Sight Set

S&W - M&P - Black Target with Fiber Front Adjustable Sight Set

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Old 02-05-2020, 07:21 PM
Dahak Dahak is offline
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2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations 2.0 9mm 4" - adjust elevation/sight replacement recommendations  
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I am covering the target with the front white dot, not trying to rest the target on top of the dot. Shifting to 124 grain from 115 helped a little, but not enough (4 inch mis-targeting shifted to 3 inches or so). Have not had a chance to call during the business day, so S&W has not heard from me yet.

I still haven't decided in my heart of hearts if I want a factory plain front sight replacement, or if I am wanting to use this as an excuse to install fiber optics. Since it is my carry gun, I think I want as stock as possible, but new toy is new and fun. Yeah, I want to stay stock and use the money saved to get another pistol (I have a distinct lack of 45 in my safe).
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