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Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols All Variants of the Smith & Wesson M&P Auto Series


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Old 02-07-2020, 03:24 PM
Northener Northener is offline
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Default Bought new...got used.

Purchased a Bodyguard 380 Weds. 4 hour drive I got home, didn’t feel good, felt flu setting in. Set the firearm in its box on the countertop and went to bed. Well....two days later feeling somewhat better i opened the box, no seal, do not remember if they all have a seal of some sort or not. Firearm is in the stitched case supplied with BG, along with the two mags. Huh strange.... do they not put firearm in either the blue vinyl bag or paper? Anyway ....take the firearm out, this thing looks like its been used. Breach is dirty, feed ramp is dirty, muzzle has residue. Pop the magazine out.....orange follower is really black, ok...whats going on. Look at the other magazine, same thing orange follower is black as well. Field strip the firearm, definitely been fired more than test round Or two at factory. Paid new price, no mention of gun being used. Feeling very pissed off.

What should I do, contact Smith and Wesson? Dealer? Both?
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Old 02-07-2020, 03:29 PM
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Every gun I have bought through an FFL has taken the gun out of the box to verify serial number and allow me to inspect.

Suggest you should do the same.
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Old 02-07-2020, 03:40 PM
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What happened to your inspecting of the gun before accepting it?

If I inspected it and accepted it then I am part of the process, not the dealer or S&W. ME.....not the others are responsible.

Randy
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Old 02-07-2020, 03:54 PM
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Guess its my fault then.
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Old 02-07-2020, 04:03 PM
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I recently had a gun delivered to my FFL from Bud's Gun Shop -- the email shipping confirmation from Bud's said in big letters that I was responsible for inspecting/examining the condition of the gun before accepting it from the FFL. If I accepted it from the FFL, I was accepting the condition. If there was a problem the FFL would send it back to them....
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Old 02-07-2020, 04:37 PM
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I searched all over for a 617 once. I have a highly respected local dealer call me that he got one in that day. I told him I would take it. When I inspected it, I told him I wanted new; it was filthy. He said it was new; and it came in that way. He said he occasionally gets them in like that. I believe him. And if he was going to try to pull a fast one, I think he would have at least wiped down the outside.

They are all fired. So, unless something is wrong with it: I wouldn’t worry about it. You can call S&W and they can tell you if it went to your dealer’s supplier, or if it was registered any other time.

BTW…My local FFL does me a service by accepting transfers for very little money. If there is a problem with a gun, its between be and whoever I bought it from or the manufacturer. It’s not my FFL’s problem to return it, unless of course I am going to pay him to do that. I don’t care what Buds policy is. I don’t fully check mine out, standing there wasting their time, so I would have missed it also.

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UPON RECEIVING A FIREARM AT YOUR CHOSEN FFL DEALER, BE SURE TO THOROUGHLY INSPECT YOUR FIREARM FOR ANY DEFECTS BEFORE ACCEPTING THE TRANSFER. WE CAN ONLY ISSUE A FULL REFUND OR NEW REPLACEMENT IF THE FIREARM HAS NOT BEEN TRANSFERED. FULL REFUNDS DO INCLUDE RETURN SHIPPING COST. HOWEVER, UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES WILL WE REIMBURSE A CUSTOMER FOR FFL TRANSFER FEES ON RETURNED ITEMS.
Buds does in fact have the above disclaimer in their email. Grab a Gun and Palmetto State Armory; does not. I have been ordering from both of those places more than Buds because they have both been beating Buds price by a significant amount. I guess that’s something for me to keep in mind when deciding who to order from. Although truthfully they are all selling the exact same thing, so I buy from who has the lowest price.

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Old 02-07-2020, 05:10 PM
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Pay a little more and buy from your local dealer!
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Old 02-07-2020, 05:16 PM
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FWIW This was a display gun he handed me, as usual, with all the firearms I have purchased there., I did not expect that this was the gun I was purchasing. I said I would take one and he handed me the paperwork to fill out. Usually then they go into the back and grab one from stock. They had 17 on hand. From there he takes it to a different area for clerk to run background check etc. tells me it will be over there for checkout. So i go browse around while i wait on background check. I did not check the box as it was already in a vinyl store bag. Paid the clerk and left. 4 hour drive later and two days with the flu. I find out. Live and learn I guess.
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Old 02-07-2020, 05:27 PM
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I bought a “new” airweight that seemed a little dirty to me, from a small dealer at a show. No scratches or chips or other wear on it... I wondered but since it shot well and I liked it I decided not to worry.
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Old 02-07-2020, 06:58 PM
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Contact the "dealer" you purchased it from . At this point it would be the first place to start .
If he values your business he will take care of it .
Happy customers are repeat customers...jerk people around and they will buy elsewhere .
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Old 02-07-2020, 07:18 PM
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I have purchased several S&W Shields and one M&Pc since 2013. All of the magazine followers have been dirty when I unboxed the guns.
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Old 02-07-2020, 07:39 PM
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S&W sells to distributors - not dealers. Ask the dealer where he got it and if he is truthful, don’t be surprised if it was a trade in... It is your responsibility to examine the gun and deem it acceptable before you sign the paperwork.
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Old 02-07-2020, 07:50 PM
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If the dealer sold it as new, it should be new condition, not used. If it is used the dealer should take it back and exchange for a factory new condition one. That is what he paid for.
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Old 02-07-2020, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northener View Post
Purchased a Bodyguard 380 Weds. 4 hour drive I got home, didn’t feel good, felt flu setting in...two days later feeling somewhat better i opened the box, no seal, do not remember if they all have a seal of some sort or not.
What should I do, contact Smith and Wesson? Dealer? Both?
You bought this gun from the store not online, Correct? You said it was a display gun. There will not be a seal on box, because when something comes into the sho, you need to verify: the SN, make, model, caliber, condition- regardless of what it says in the box.
Odd that both mags are dirty, they should all be factory fired. Check the gun closely, "light and magnifying glass", if it functions fine, your good to go. I would prefer to buy a bodyguard with 250 rds through it if I was buying it for myself. I would call the dealer since you said this was supposed to be a new gun, display or not. If you are paying new price, you should be getting new gun. Yes I have seen guns come dirty from the factory or distributor, though usually just light dust. Be Safe,
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Old 02-07-2020, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northener View Post
Purchased a Bodyguard 380 Weds. 4 hour drive I got home, didn’t feel good, felt flu setting in. Set the firearm in its box on the countertop and went to bed. Well....two days later feeling somewhat better i opened the box, no seal, do not remember if they all have a seal of some sort or not. Firearm is in the stitched case supplied with BG, along with the two mags. Huh strange.... do they not put firearm in either the blue vinyl bag or paper? Anyway ....take the firearm out, this thing looks like its been used. Breach is dirty, feed ramp is dirty, muzzle has residue. Pop the magazine out.....orange follower is really black, ok...whats going on. Look at the other magazine, same thing orange follower is black as well. Field strip the firearm, definitely been fired more than test round Or two at factory. Paid new price, no mention of gun being used. Feeling very pissed off.

What should I do, contact Smith and Wesson? Dealer? Both?
So....what is it that you want S&W or the Dealer to do for you? What is your ultimate objective here?

If it were me, I would load it up and shoot the heck out of it.

Randy
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Old 02-07-2020, 08:42 PM
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Got my NEW BG from dealer about 3 weeks ago.They took it out of the box to verify the Serial Number. There is no seal. When he opened the box the gun was in the zipped black pouch with the 2 mags. NO blue or clear vinyl bag or paper rapper.
Got it home and disassembled for cleaning. Gun was filthy and the followers and inside the mags were also Dirty. There were no wear marks on the bbl or slide rails. Took it to the range a few days later and ran 36 rounds through it. On The front top of the bbl you could see marks were the gun had been shot. When disassembled you could see the rails were shinny.
I think that S&W uses the cheapest/ dirtiest powder they can get. JMO

Got a New S&W 9mm Ez about 6 weeks ago and the condition of the gun was about the same. I don’t know the protocol used at the factory, but I could definitely tell the difference between the new dirty gun and the gun after just a few rounds.

Be SAFE and Shoot Often!

Last edited by Execpro; 02-07-2020 at 08:53 PM.
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Old 02-07-2020, 09:56 PM
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Having run a gun shop for over 9 years, I can tell you that ALL incoming guns were removed from the boxes so that the guns serial number could be confirmed with the box and the shipping invoice, before the gun was entered into our bound book. As a result, the seals on the boxes were never intact after we went thru them. All of our 380 Bodyguards just came in a pouch with the spare mag. I don't believe they were even in a plastic wrap. It didn't happen often but we did have a couple instances, were the actual gun in the box did not match the box or invoice. Distributor reps were immediately contacted and the firearms were returned, because that meant the distributors records were likely messed up also.
As to the OP's issue. We did see some guns direct from our distributors that appeared to have been test fired more than others. As to how dirty one gun is over another, the brand/type of ammo used for test firing can make a huge difference.

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Old 02-11-2020, 10:23 PM
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I purchased my Shield 45 2 yrs ago and I was so mad at my local dealer for ordering me a used gun. I got to looking into this and it seems that every so often a firearm is pulled off the line and several magazines are ran through it. I had over 24 cleaning patches that were so dirty i thought I was cleaning my muzzleloader. I now also believe that they use dirty ammo during the test firing of each weapon, so I would not worry about it if the dealer says it came directly from a distributor.
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Old 02-11-2020, 10:37 PM
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I have never purchased a firearm that arrived in a seal.

Though, when dealing with a local FFL several years ago, I field-stripped a pistol before accepting the transfer and the FFL said, "no one has ever inspected a pistol like that". Seemed odd to me she did not find it to be a common practice-- you wouldn't drive off the lot in your new car without at least kicking the tires, right?

Regardless, all S&W mags that shipped with pistols have what appears to be black crayon that someone marked across the top of the follower.

Upon cleaning a new pistol of S&W tier, you will discover most all components are dirty-- pistols of this class are factory fired. I recall hearing this was a law(?). If a yellow-like substance shows up on patches during your initial cleaning, that is a factory protectant. Also, the ammo they use is probably bottom of the rung, filthy dirty stuff.

I would agree with the notion of contacting the seller and being upfront about your concerns, see what comes of that conversation.

Otherwise load it up and put some lead through it, assuming there are no functionality issues, rest easy-- it is ultimately a tool and function is key, people buy new pistols that fail to function, and that.. that sucks.

Last edited by Boogs; 02-11-2020 at 10:44 PM.
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Old 02-11-2020, 10:50 PM
HOUSTON RICK HOUSTON RICK is offline
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Now that you have it, it is used. Maybe a return that was not properly cleaned? My new guns were never "sealed" in anything.
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Old 02-11-2020, 11:00 PM
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Other than the fact that it was dirty, are there any other marks or signs of wear?

If not, then even though you are rightfully peeved, you have suffered no loss except for the fact that you weren't the first one to get it dirty.
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Old 02-12-2020, 06:59 AM
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Don't make a habit out of giving anyone several hundred dollars without looking at what you are getting in return. Driving four hours with the flu to see an FFL for a bodyguard which can be bought at academy is another issue in itself. Honestly, when I read your comments it seems like you enjoy setting yourself up for failure.

Good luck with resolution and future life stuff.
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Old 02-12-2020, 08:10 AM
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These pistols are test fired, I've seen some that come from the factory more dirty than others.
You need to put 300 to 500 rounds through it for break in before you should trust your life to a new pistol. Look at it this way, some of the break in has already been done for you.

As Sistema said, your only loss it that you weren't the first person to get it dirty.
I would be more bummed if it came squeaky clean and hadn't been test fired, even more bummed if it had been shipped with a function issue because it hadn't been tested.

Ideally, factories would test fire then clean the pistols before shipping, but then it would be hard to tell if they were doing their job and test firing them.
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Old 02-12-2020, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northener View Post
FWIW This was a display gun he handed me, as usual, with all the firearms I have purchased there., I did not expect that this was the gun I was purchasing. I said I would take one and he handed me the paperwork to fill out. Usually then they go into the back and grab one from stock. They had 17 on hand. From there he takes it to a different area for clerk to run background check etc. tells me it will be over there for checkout. So i go browse around while i wait on background check. I did not check the box as it was already in a vinyl store bag. Paid the clerk and left. 4 hour drive later and two days with the flu. I find out. Live and learn I guess.
I always ask for one out da back. I don't like my guns to be cooned by countless people before I buy it. All those nasty fingerprints, drool and human touch on what will become MY gun.
Down here when somebody "coons" something think a raccoon with a piece of anything as he turns it over every which a way inspecting it, washing it or whatever with those little bitty hands before he either puts it down and moves on or eats it. A very apt description of some of the behavior I have seen watching some people inspecting, dry firing, looking down the muzzle and other antics while inspecting firearms.

As far as dirty , I would certainly HOPE that any gun I but new was test fired at the factory to make sure the darn thing works. For semi's I would HOPE that it would include running at least three rounds through the magazine to make sure there are no feeding problems. SO you have any idea what these guns would cost is after test firing they were sent to be cleaned up by a tech to a customer's satisfaction??? As long at it isn't rusted {had that happen one time with a new in box 870 upon inspection at the gun shop-followed by an apology and another trip ti the back for another one) no big deal.
Also there is another school of thought that says buy the one in the display that has been handled by many thus if there was anything obviously wrong with it, it would have been discovered. I'm not in that school. If fact if forced to either buy the display or walk empty handed, I'kk try to get a few bucks cut from the price-in guns ans everything else.
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Old 02-12-2020, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northener View Post
Breach is dirty, feed ramp is dirty, muzzle has residue. Pop the magazine out.....orange follower is really black, ok...whats going on. Look at the other magazine, same thing orange follower is black as well. Field strip the firearm, definitely been fired more than test round Or two at factory.
Factories usually fire three rounds. If there is an issue with that firearm it goes back to be resolved and then comes out to fire more rounds.

A dirty guns does not mean it is a used gun.

Also as RBS_@63 mentions, from time to time a random gun is pulled from the line and shot more extensively than just a test

Looking at the past four or five years of production numbers, Smith & Wesson produces over one million firearms per year. That means that over four thousand guns need to get through QC each day.

There is just no way that QC people can look at something as closely as a new owner will. I can not imagine sitting at that job. It might be fun at the start of the day, but I can not believe that I would still be perfectly diligent after eight hours


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I now also believe that they use dirty ammo during the test firing of each weapon, so I would not worry about it if the dealer says it came directly from a distributor.
I never thought of it before. but a gun that fires three rounds of the cleanest, best ammunition is not much of a gun

The gun that fires three of the dirtiest, low cost ammunition around is a better test for a flaw in the firearm

And we should not forget that many, many folks buy that cheap dirty ammunition to practice with
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Old 02-12-2020, 03:15 PM
James&theGiant1911 James&theGiant1911 is offline
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Yes what @colt_saa said, I purchased a Nighthawk and it came from the factory zipped in its pouch with the fire round shell. It was zip locked through the breach but you could see that it had powder and the chamber had black residue on it. A lot of times most all firearms especially MP or PC models will be fired several times to make sure they are up to standard. Now if the gun had been shot to piss then that is something different but any firearms that have been test shot more than 2 or 3 times will have that on them. Just from my experience.
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:34 PM
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As pointed out, you may not be "harmed" by this at all -- clean it, and it is yours, as if you shot it once yourself. It is a long way from wearing out.

As others have noted, too, always check a gun before receiving it. Gosh, this forum sees a lot of complaints about S&W revolvers that were taken home and found to have "clocked barrels." That means the new owner didn't inspect the gun! And, if the new owner finds it unbearable, it means that revolver has to go back to Springfield, MA in hopes the factory can fix it right.

Even mail order guns can be refused if inspected before signing for them from the FFL. But the lesson learned is to inspect the gun and if it has a problem, e.g., it is dirty enough to suggest it is really "used," then don't accept it.

By the way, I bought a M&P9 from Bud's and it showed up in a box with a white number on it... and inside was a clearly used pistol that was marked "Sheriff's Office, Jefferson Parish, Louisiana." I refused to accept it and the FFL sent it back... Bud's made it right within a day or two. They apparently sent me a police trade-in gun, presumably because of an honest mistake. It can happen!
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Old 02-12-2020, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by S&W Rover View Post
inside was a clearly used pistol that was marked "Sheriff's Office, Jefferson Parish, Louisiana." I refused to accept it and the FFL sent it back... Bud's made it right within a day or two. They apparently sent me a police trade-in gun, presumably because of an honest mistake. It can happen!
Rumor has it you can flash that engraving, fire two blasts in the air, and the bad guys run away.
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  #29  
Old 02-13-2020, 10:48 AM
BSA1 BSA1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandog View Post
These pistols are test fired, I've seen some that come from the factory more dirty than others...

I would be more bummed if it came squeaky clean and hadn't been test fired, even more bummed if it had been shipped with a function issue because it hadn't been tested.
I agree. There is no reason for manufacturers not to test fire their guns before it goes out the door. If the gun was squeaky clean and then did not function correctly after being brought the buyer would be on the Internet complaining about the manufacturers lack of quality control and that they should test fire their guns before shipping them.

O.P.’s sole complaint seems to be that the gun is dirty. It apparently doesn’t have wear on the finish showing it was carried or otherwise used. I don’t own a 380 BG but I am willing to bet the owners manual recommends cleaning and oiling the gun before shooting it for the first time.
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  #30  
Old 02-14-2020, 01:58 AM
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mrmike7189 mrmike7189 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColbyBruce View Post
I have purchased several S&W Shields and one M&Pc since 2013. All of the magazine followers have been dirty when I unboxed the guns.
Same here my new BG380's had filty magazines black powder all over the followers. They were new , just test fired. Pretty normal .
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  #31  
Old 02-14-2020, 09:56 AM
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The degree of GSR is going to depend upon the number of rounds fired during testing and the ammo that was used for testing. Some powders burn cleaner than others and cheap ammo usually leaves a lot of residue. I doubt S&W is using top self, flash suppressed ammo to test thousands and thousands of handguns each year.
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Old 02-16-2020, 08:48 PM
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After reading responses, thanks BTW, S&W lifetime warranty right, what the heck, I cleaned the BG up and preceded to fire some rounds. Neat little gun, it handled pretty good as small as it is, and I have large hands. Not much recoil as I thought it might have, about the same as than my 9mm shield. Have not weighed the pull on the trigger yet, but I will, it is smooth, but I do have trouble at times with the long length of the pull. Will give this some more time. No failures of any kind, even shot quite a few rounds of Blazer ammo known for hard primers.
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Old 02-16-2020, 09:08 PM
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Great news, it functions, which is what you want it for, and truthfully, is likely not "used".

Ahhh all is wellll
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