Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >

Notices

Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols All Variants of the Smith & Wesson M&P Auto Series


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-10-2020, 01:41 PM
akoda akoda is offline
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Richmond, Va.
Posts: 122
Likes: 85
Liked 204 Times in 65 Posts
Default EZ 380 Shooter issue???

my wife and I took a holster class Saturday. She was shooting her 380 EZ, only had 50 rounds through it. the class was to shoot 100 rounds, loading 5 at a time, if that matters. she was getting stove pipes almost every mag, it was happening so often she got very frustrated.

today, I took the same ez to the range and put 100 rounds through it, mostly 5 in a mag at a time, not a single stovepipe, what can a user do to cause it? seems odd to me

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-10-2020, 01:53 PM
OKFC05 OKFC05 is offline
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 7,735
Likes: 2,499
Liked 4,259 Times in 1,852 Posts
Default

commonly called "limp wrist.' More accurately, letting the pistol flop around instead of holding it correctly and firmly.

__________________
Science plus Art

Last edited by OKFC05; 02-10-2020 at 01:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #3  
Old 02-10-2020, 02:14 PM
bigwheelzip's Avatar
bigwheelzip bigwheelzip is online now
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Upstate SC
Posts: 8,790
Likes: 11,356
Liked 23,828 Times in 5,584 Posts
Default

I don't have the EZ but see threads on the forum discussing the problem. Here is one with more than a years worth of contributions. M&P 380 EZ Stovepipe Cure?

If you used the same magazine and ammo as your wife, without a problem, then her technique looks like the issue. Perhaps with range work on her part, she can fix it, or maybe she could pick a more mature platform.

Last edited by bigwheelzip; 02-10-2020 at 02:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-10-2020, 05:39 PM
akoda akoda is offline
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Richmond, Va.
Posts: 122
Likes: 85
Liked 204 Times in 65 Posts
Default

we were doing one handed drills and weak hand drills, so that was likely an issue getting a good grip. of course there are many issues like this with this model.

she has her eyes on my 9mm shield now, guess I get a new 45 EZ 380 Shooter issue???

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #5  
Old 02-10-2020, 09:21 PM
Funflyer's Avatar
Funflyer Funflyer is online now
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Central Arizona
Posts: 637
Likes: 566
Liked 909 Times in 338 Posts
Default

Regardless of someones grip, there shouldn't be as many reports of stovepipes as there are. S&W designed this pistol to be easy on those with less strength which goes hand in hand with limp wristing. The designers need to come up with a viable fix and quit pacifying owners with mag followers and springs.
Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Like Post:
  #6  
Old 02-11-2020, 03:52 AM
gc70 gc70 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: NC
Posts: 244
Likes: 147
Liked 323 Times in 101 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by akoda View Post
we were doing one handed drills and weak hand drills, so that was likely an issue getting a good grip. of course there are many issues like this with this model.

she has her eyes on my 9mm shield now, guess I get a new 45 EZ 380 Shooter issue???
If your wife was limp-wristing a .380 EZ to the point of feeding failures, I can't imagine that she would have a productive experience with a 9mm Shield.

My wife's EZ has experienced stovepipes, but only on the last round in one of her four magazines and regardless of who shoots the pistol, so I'm reasonably sure the problem is not related to limp-wristing.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #7  
Old 02-11-2020, 10:06 AM
akoda akoda is offline
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Richmond, Va.
Posts: 122
Likes: 85
Liked 204 Times in 65 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gc70 View Post
If your wife was limp-wristing a .380 EZ to the point of feeding failures, I can't imagine that she would have a productive experience with a 9mm Shield.

My wife's EZ has experienced stovepipes, but only on the last round in one of her four magazines and regardless of who shoots the pistol, so I'm reasonably sure the problem is not related to limp-wristing.
I am going to shoot it again very soon, maybe today. is the issue with last round only from a full mag? if i put 5 rounds in, would you expect the issue on the last round then?

someone in our class was a gunsmith there and suggested it could be that it hasn't been broken in yet, it has 250 rounds through it now

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-11-2020, 10:50 AM
Boogs Boogs is offline
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Illinois
Posts: 75
Likes: 9
Liked 28 Times in 21 Posts
Default

Given that this EZ is marketed for less experienced shooters, it would be reasonable to expect reports of failures. I could be mistaken, but the philosophy of the EZ was to ease the process of chambering a round, not a "no-recoil pistol".

I agree with the sentiment that a Shield will not resolve the matter anymore than giving an inexperienced driver a faster car makes that individual a better driver. 9mm is a "hotter" round and some may believe that will result in more positive extraction, however, pistols are engineered/tuned for their respective calibers.

Grip is CRITICAL and based on your report, the culprit to the stovepipes > break-in factor.

I recently purchased a pistol I had my wife shoot before me. She shoots occasionally, but still struggles with things second nature to more experienced shooters. She had a stovepipe every few rounds, which obviously concerned me. The ammo was Aguila, I consider it a weaker load, and it had been sitting for years, but still, every few rounds? I picked it up and put mag after mag through it with no issues. Lemon pistol? No. She has trouble filling the gap between the dove-tail and the top of the grip, this error allows the recoil to pivot at that point, and the business end will rise and twist, resulting in stovepipes.

Most shooters expect a break-in period of a few hundred rounds, especially on pistols they carry for self-defense, this allows components to wear/polish themselves in certain toleranced areas, springs to soften, and generally everything melds into the machine it is designed to be. In addition, any issues relating to reliability are likely to be experienced in this trial period. There are manufacturer defects, but all factors considered, the type of failure reported with a new pistol, being used by an assumedly less experienced shooter, and your inability as a shooter to replicate the failure-- it is operator error.

Do not overlook the importance of proper grip. One does not need forearms of steel to manage recoil, but proper grip, in every nuance, is critical.

Last edited by Boogs; 02-11-2020 at 11:10 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #9  
Old 02-11-2020, 11:30 AM
bigwheelzip's Avatar
bigwheelzip bigwheelzip is online now
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Upstate SC
Posts: 8,790
Likes: 11,356
Liked 23,828 Times in 5,584 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by akoda View Post
is the issue with last round only from a full mag? if i put 5 rounds in, would you expect the issue on the last round then?
The last round is the same whether you start with a full mag or five rounds.



Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #10  
Old 02-11-2020, 12:07 PM
akoda akoda is offline
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Richmond, Va.
Posts: 122
Likes: 85
Liked 204 Times in 65 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwheelzip View Post
The last round is the same whether you start with a full mag or five rounds.



Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
I certainly understand that, but pushing 8 rounds in vs 1, compressed springs differently. so can you reproduce it with only one round in mag. call it first, last or only .... want to try and reproduce because that doesn't happen on mine

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-11-2020, 12:26 PM
MyDads38 MyDads38 is offline
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Central Indiana
Posts: 1,509
Likes: 923
Liked 917 Times in 518 Posts
Default

I've read on here about the stovepipe issue, but the 2 ladies at our indoor range who shoot the 380 EZ don't seem to have the issue. I've personally shot one of their 380 EZ'S and didn't have an issue. Proper grip is important in the function of a semi-auto pistol, no matter what caliber. When I was teaching my wife on my Compact 22, she had issues with misfeeds/stovepipes. Once she got a correct grip, they went away.

I don't personally buy into a "breaking in" period for a firearm. It should work out of the box, after proper cleaning/lube. I've always wondered how a $300-$400 standard grade pistol will work out of the box, but something like a Kimber requires 300-500 rounds to "break it in" to function properly? Just my thoughts.... :-)
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #12  
Old 02-11-2020, 12:58 PM
christak's Avatar
christak christak is online now
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Florida
Posts: 235
Likes: 217
Liked 154 Times in 97 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by akoda View Post
I am going to shoot it again very soon, maybe today. is the issue with last round only from a full mag? if i put 5 rounds in, would you expect the issue on the last round then?

someone in our class was a gunsmith there and suggested it could be that it hasn't been broken in yet, it has 250 rounds through it now

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
It's not a break in issue and it's always a last round issue no matter if you load 8 or 4 or 3 or 2... Mine occurred from day one. I now have over 3500 rounds through my EZ and have resigned myself to never expect this gun to function as it should. I have 8 magazines, have sent the gun back to Smith, changed out springs, springs and followers, and still have the problem periodically. The mag springs are too weak once they wear a bit and the magazine moves a little too much in the mag well when the gun is fired. I went to the range with my EZ last week and again had a last round stovepipe in 2 of my 8 magazines in 250 rounds. Loaded 8 per mag, each mag was loaded 4 times so 2 of my magazines failed 25% of the time last week. My experience has been 10 to 25% last round stovepipes or ejected live last round throughout the life of my EZ. I'm not impressed with that aspect of the gun. Otherwise it has been flawless.

I truly believe stronger, longer lasting springs would fix the issue. The suggestion to increase friction on the follower face might work, but Smith should have resolved this issue long ago. My CZs don't do this, nor do my Sigs, Walthers, Rugers, or Glocks. Guess which brands I'll continue to purchase and which one I won't...
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-11-2020, 12:58 PM
Boogs Boogs is offline
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Illinois
Posts: 75
Likes: 9
Liked 28 Times in 21 Posts
Default

Pistols should work out of the box, ideally.

Sometimes they don't, though.. for a multitude of reasons.

After all they are just small machines.

The break-in gets a misconstrued rap as new shooters shoot new firearms and say "well, it isn't broken in". ...yeah, kind of, but not necessarily.

Most any firearm will function fine from the factory, but the break-in is commonly viewed as essential to diagnose any potential, rare, issues.

I would not carry a pistol to defend my life with "out of the box", and if you wouldn't either-- you may believe in a break-in period
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-11-2020, 01:40 PM
Boogs Boogs is offline
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Illinois
Posts: 75
Likes: 9
Liked 28 Times in 21 Posts
Default

In regards to the OP, it does NOT sound like the pistol is the issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by christak View Post
It's not a break in issue and it's always a last round issue no matter if you load 8 or 4 or 3 or 2... Mine occurred from day one.....
Your situation sounds different, are you saying the only stove-pipes you encounter are last round? I would number those mags to make them easier to identify and try and narrow it down. Have you had others shoot your pistol with the same result?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-11-2020, 04:56 PM
christak's Avatar
christak christak is online now
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Florida
Posts: 235
Likes: 217
Liked 154 Times in 97 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogs View Post
In regards to the OP, it does NOT sound like the pistol is the issue.



Your situation sounds different, are you saying the only stove-pipes you encounter are last round? I would number those mags to make them easier to identify and try and narrow it down. Have you had others shoot your pistol with the same result?
My gun functions flawlessly EXCEPT for the last round stovepipes or last round completely ejected from the gun. My magazines are numbered. I currently have 8, but have had 11 different mags including the ones I returned to Smith. I worked with Smith from January until August 2019 trying to sort out the issues with my EZ. Others have fired my gun...same results...and I'm an experienced handgun guy with many handguns from all the gun makers listed in my post above plus Beretta and Springfield. I've never seen a gun have this kind of issue that apparently has no cure. I know many don't report having this issue, but I've gotten to the point that after 3835 rounds of 8 different brands of ammo through my gun and multiple iterations trying to fix the problem, I just no longer enjoy having the EZ. It's great fun when it isn't stovepiping, but I can't shoot 250 rounds without issues. All my other handguns are completely reliable and as such are far more fun to shoot. I shoot 13000 to 15000 rounds per year...I'm at the range every week. I'm currently down on Smith and don't plan to purchase any more semi-automatics from them. I know that is an overreaction, but that's where I am. YMMV
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-11-2020, 05:07 PM
Boogs Boogs is offline
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Illinois
Posts: 75
Likes: 9
Liked 28 Times in 21 Posts
Default

Trying to narrow down potential causes of the issue, certainly seems like you covered your bases and your experience, unfortunately may be an issue pistol related.

I do not own an EZ, it does not satisfy any vacant need for me, but seems much of your focus has been ammo/mag related-- I imagine if it was one or the other you would see variations in your results.

Total shot in the dark, have you considered changing the extractor? The last round element throws me, especially with different mags, different ammo, and different shooters
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-11-2020, 05:08 PM
three5seven three5seven is offline
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 7
Likes: 1
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by christak View Post
My gun functions flawlessly EXCEPT for the last round stovepipes or last round completely ejected from the gun. My magazines are numbered. I currently have 8, but have had 11 different mags including the ones I returned to Smith. I worked with Smith from January until August 2019 trying to sort out the issues with my EZ. Others have fired my gun...same results...and I'm an experienced handgun guy with many handguns from all the gun makers listed in my post above plus Beretta and Springfield. I've never seen a gun have this kind of issue that apparently has no cure. I know many don't report having this issue, but I've gotten to the point that after 3835 rounds of 8 different brands of ammo through my gun and multiple iterations trying to fix the problem, I just no longer enjoy having the EZ. It's great fun when it isn't stovepiping, but I can't shoot 250 rounds without issues. All my other handguns are completely reliable and as such are far more fun to shoot. I shoot 13000 to 15000 rounds per year...I'm at the range every week. I'm currently down on Smith and don't plan to purchase any more semi-automatics from them. I know that is an overreaction, but that's where I am. YMMV
Truly unfortunate, as this design concept is perfect for the consumer with compromised grip strength and/or recoil sensitivity. Smith & Wesson's lack of solution is so puzzling.

I too have given up. The 380 EZ has gone from heralded solution to family and friends to trade bait.

Could have been great.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #18  
Old 02-11-2020, 05:13 PM
rkittine rkittine is offline
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Manhattan/Sag Harbor, NY
Posts: 301
Likes: 4
Liked 259 Times in 119 Posts
Default

I just got my Shield 380 EZ last week. Bought it to teach my girl friend to shoot, but haven't shot it yet. I guess after reading all the posts here, I will take it to the range and put a few hundred rounds down range to Test It / Break It In or what ever we want to call it, before I have her start shooting it.

Bob
__________________
Sag Harbor & Manhattan, N.Y.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-11-2020, 05:26 PM
christak's Avatar
christak christak is online now
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Florida
Posts: 235
Likes: 217
Liked 154 Times in 97 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogs View Post
Trying to narrow down potential causes of the issue, certainly seems like you covered your bases and your experience, unfortunately may be an issue pistol related.

I do not own an EZ, it does not satisfy any vacant need for me, but seems much of your focus has been ammo/mag related-- I imagine if it was one or the other you would see variations in your results.

Total shot in the dark, have you considered changing the extractor? The last round element throws me, especially with different mags, different ammo, and different shooters
I sent the gun back to Smith. They said the "gun" was fine...which I don't doubt...and gave me 2 new magazines. The new mags didn't solve the problem for long. I'm 100% convinced that it's a magazine/mag spring/mag well issue. Didn't change the extractor...and as you may have gathered, I'm done messing with it unless they come out with new mags or springs... You might understand the last round issue better if you owned an EZ. The last round is not held very securely and the recoil of the slide cycling causes the last round to move even before the slide is coming forward to pick up and chamber the round, so occasionally the round stands straight up and gets caught in the ejection port or is completely ejected from the gun.

Last edited by christak; 02-11-2020 at 05:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-11-2020, 06:20 PM
akoda akoda is offline
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Richmond, Va.
Posts: 122
Likes: 85
Liked 204 Times in 65 Posts
Default

with rounds in the magazine, is it more difficult to insert the mags into the gun? mine is, it has to be whacked pretty good



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 02-11-2020, 06:40 PM
Boogs Boogs is offline
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Illinois
Posts: 75
Likes: 9
Liked 28 Times in 21 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by christak View Post
The last round is not held very securely and the recoil of the slide cycling causes the last round to move even before the slide is coming forward to pick up and chamber the round, so occasionally the round stands straight up and gets caught in the ejection port or is completely ejected from the gun.

Just want to clarify, are you saying the slide is moving into battery and as it is picking up the last round from the magazine to chamber, it actually stovepipes BEFORE chambering?
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-11-2020, 07:59 PM
christak's Avatar
christak christak is online now
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Florida
Posts: 235
Likes: 217
Liked 154 Times in 97 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogs View Post
Just want to clarify, are you saying the slide is moving into battery and as it is picking up the last round from the magazine to chamber, it actually stovepipes BEFORE chambering?
I'm saying the round is sometimes moving "prior" to the return stroke of the slide when the round is supposed to be picked up (moving into battery) to be chambered. (i.e. the round sometimes moves before it should because it isn't held firmly in place and the result is a stovepipe or complete ejection)

Instead of the round only moving up into the proper position and being held firmly in place to be picked up, it moves on the follower and partially out of position in the mag so it doesn't feed into the chamber.

There is a video in one of the posts in the older thread mentioned above that shows it. There was a frame-by-frame photo from the video in the post, but I think the photo hosting service may have expired and the photo may be inaccessible now. I may have a copy...if I do, I'll try to post it here later.

Last edited by christak; 02-11-2020 at 08:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02-11-2020, 08:08 PM
christak's Avatar
christak christak is online now
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Florida
Posts: 235
Likes: 217
Liked 154 Times in 97 Posts
Default

Hopefully I was able to attach the frame-by-frame photo here...and here is the link to the YouTube video from the other thread (I hope).
YouTube
Attached Thumbnails
EZ 380 Shooter issue???-eqigmqi-jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 02-11-2020, 08:21 PM
Mister X Mister X is online now
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,806
Likes: 316
Liked 1,961 Times in 939 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by akoda View Post
we were doing one handed drills and weak hand drills, so that was likely an issue getting a good grip. of course there are many issues like this with this model.

she has her eyes on my 9mm shield now, guess I get a new 45 EZ 380 Shooter issue???

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
A relatively stable grip is required for pretty much any semi-automatic to cycle reliable, especially lightweight frame models chambered in lower power calibers. While a particular gun may be extremely reliable in controlled static two-hand range shooting conditions, that may not be true when firing one-handed, from an odd position, while moving or in-fighting, but in an actual defense situation that may be the reality. That’s why my carry gun is most often a revolver and I reserve the autoloaders for home/hotel defense.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 02-11-2020, 08:51 PM
Boogs Boogs is offline
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Illinois
Posts: 75
Likes: 9
Liked 28 Times in 21 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by christak View Post
Yep, we're on the same page.. that is bizarre, I have never seen that..

Was this clearly communicated to S&W? I only ask because terming this a stove-pipe is a misnomer.

The result is a stove-pipe, but the manner in which it occurs is atypical and feel most avid shooters would agree.

You may be correct about the mag/mag well issue, I wonder how widespread this is and what fix the YouTuber is exploring (comment section).

Last edited by Boogs; 02-11-2020 at 08:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 02-12-2020, 12:32 AM
christak's Avatar
christak christak is online now
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Florida
Posts: 235
Likes: 217
Liked 154 Times in 97 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogs View Post
Yep, we're on the same page.. that is bizarre, I have never seen that..

Was this clearly communicated to S&W? I only ask because terming this a stove-pipe is a misnomer.

The result is a stove-pipe, but the manner in which it occurs is atypical and feel most avid shooters would agree.

You may be correct about the mag/mag well issue, I wonder how widespread this is and what fix the YouTuber is exploring (comment section).
Having worked with Smith from January through August 2019, I very clearly described the issues I was experiencing. It was a painful and frustrating experience going through the process especially considering that over a year later I still have the same problem. I don't know how widespread the issue is, but it's certainly a pretty big problem if you have a gun that is affected. The mag well is very loose and the recoil can move the mag in the well. That coupled with the weak mag springs that wear quickly is a recipe for trouble in the EZ...my opinion.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 02-12-2020, 12:40 AM
Boogs Boogs is offline
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Illinois
Posts: 75
Likes: 9
Liked 28 Times in 21 Posts
Default

It is such a peculiar issue you would think S&W would be interested in paying more attention to it-- that is not a fired cartridge stove-piping on extraction/ejection, that is an unfired cartridge stripped from the mag stove-piping.

Have truly never seen that.

Not that it should come out of your pocket, have you tried to locate a local gunsmith? What makes you say the mag springs wear quickly?
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 02-12-2020, 01:29 AM
trikerdon trikerdon is offline
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Bremerton, WA
Posts: 65
Likes: 6
Liked 21 Times in 14 Posts
Default

I am just wondering why some people have problems with last round stovepipes and others don't? Seems like if it was a magazine problem we should all experience it. I for one have never had a stovepipe with either of the one's I fired. I sold the original one and got a performance Center. Not one stovepipe in either one. I used the magazines that came with them and also extra one's I purchased on E bay. I have also read other comments on this forum that say they have never had the problem also.

Last edited by trikerdon; 02-12-2020 at 01:34 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 02-12-2020, 01:41 AM
LVSteve's Avatar
LVSteve LVSteve is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lost Wages, NV
Posts: 11,283
Likes: 10,887
Liked 13,077 Times in 5,143 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogs View Post
It is such a peculiar issue you would think S&W would be interested in paying more attention to it--
Once they have your money, you are confusing them with somebody that gives a rat's.

Look on the bright side, Walther just announced a 380 version of their CCP M2 that is very easy to rack. Who knows, it might even come with mags that work.
__________________
Release the Kraken
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #30  
Old 02-12-2020, 02:00 AM
gc70 gc70 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: NC
Posts: 244
Likes: 147
Liked 323 Times in 101 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by akoda View Post
I am going to shoot it again very soon, maybe today. is the issue with last round only from a full mag? if i put 5 rounds in, would you expect the issue on the last round then?

someone in our class was a gunsmith there and suggested it could be that it hasn't been broken in yet, it has 250 rounds through it now
To be clear, the problem with your wife's EZ may involve limp-wristing, which lets a pistol's frame move too much for the slide to cycle properly. And your lack of a problem shooting the pistol supports that conclusion.

I recounted my wife's last-round stovepipe problem because it is similar to what a number of other owners have experienced. It can also be a little challenging to isolate the problem. Some owners have problems with all of their magazines; my wife only had one problematic magazine, but that actually made it slower to be able to isolate the problem.

If your wife had problems with one magazine and you had no problems, but with a different magazine, you might need to go back and carefully observed both/all magazines.

As to when my wife's EZ has had problems:
  • only with one magazine;
  • not every time, but over half the time;
  • only on the last round, and;
  • with from 2 to 8 rounds originally loaded in the magazine.
While it is not a very satisfactory solution, I have been able to make the one problematic magazine consistently operational by putting an empty casing between the bottom of the magazine spring and the base plate's inner retainer. That effectively turns the magazine into a 7-rounder, but it is a 7-rounder that always works.

New .380 EZ Issues-ezmag-jpg

Last edited by gc70; 02-12-2020 at 02:09 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #31  
Old 02-12-2020, 02:19 AM
trikerdon trikerdon is offline
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Bremerton, WA
Posts: 65
Likes: 6
Liked 21 Times in 14 Posts
Default

Just saw this video. He shoots his brand new EZ and uses different types of ammo. He did not have any issues with the pistol.
S&W 380 EZ FIRST 100 ROUNDS + I'M BACK! 😎
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 02-12-2020, 08:30 AM
sandog's Avatar
sandog sandog is offline
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Arizona
Posts: 198
Likes: 262
Liked 237 Times in 91 Posts
Default

Small pistols like Shield's and 3 inch 1911's have stiffer springs for a reason. If weaker springs in a small pistol were a good idea, all of them would come with weaker springs.

People choose the EZ because of hand strength issues, so it's no small stretch to think that many issues are limp wrist related.
Couple that with weaker recoil and mag springs and it's no wonder that there are so many threads about issues with the EZ.
__________________
U. S. Army Veteran
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #33  
Old 02-12-2020, 08:41 AM
Wavygravy's Avatar
Wavygravy Wavygravy is offline
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 45
Likes: 62
Liked 73 Times in 21 Posts
Default

I agree fully with everything that sandog said right there.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 02-12-2020, 10:26 AM
Boogs Boogs is offline
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Illinois
Posts: 75
Likes: 9
Liked 28 Times in 21 Posts
Default

sandog, you are spot on, and I believe the EZ is a poor attempt at resolving poor form, but give the youtube referenced a look-- this failure has nothing to do with limp wristing
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 02-12-2020, 12:20 PM
christak's Avatar
christak christak is online now
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Florida
Posts: 235
Likes: 217
Liked 154 Times in 97 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogs View Post
...
Not that it should come out of your pocket, have you tried to locate a local gunsmith? What makes you say the mag springs wear quickly?
I've had the gunsmith at my local range look it over a couple of times. He concurs that it's a magazine related design issue. Regarding the springs, I've had 11 magazines (currently have 8) and have replaced the springs twice in most of those mags. Each time, the length of the old spring has been shorter than the new springs by roughly an inch and that is after firing only a few hundred rounds (I've fired a total of 3835 rounds through my EZ). In addition, the tension of the spring when pressing down on the follower is considerably less on the older springs. I don't mind changing out springs, but they should last for several thousand rounds before needing to be replaced. IMO, Smith has designed the magazine to be too easy to load and sacrificed reliability. Springs in all my other handgun magazines are much stiffer and hold even the last round firmly in place...not the case with my EZ.

Edit: For the record, I personally have no need for the EZ. My grip is strong and I have no arthritis issues. I've shot for years and am comfortable racking slides with very stiff springs etc. I bought the EZ thinking my wife might like it and I honestly like everything about the gun except for its last round reliability.

Last edited by christak; 02-12-2020 at 03:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 02-12-2020, 01:20 PM
Boogs Boogs is offline
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Illinois
Posts: 75
Likes: 9
Liked 28 Times in 21 Posts
Default

I would agree with the gunsmith, and your assessment-- magazine related.

Also agree there is no reason a magazine cannot last tens of thousands of rounds, particularly S&W mags which have a phenomenal reputation for being well-made, reliable magazines.

Any modern firearm should be reliable, especially something from the factory. It is disappointing to hear S&W, which usually has phenomenal customer service, is simply sending you a few mags hoping to put the matter to bed.

Not that you haven't, but I would keep pushing if possible. Does not take more than a few moments to determine more of the same is going to result in more of the same. Otherwise, what options are you thinking, range gun only? Cut bait and trade it in?
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 02-12-2020, 03:24 PM
christak's Avatar
christak christak is online now
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Florida
Posts: 235
Likes: 217
Liked 154 Times in 97 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogs View Post
...
Not that you haven't, but I would keep pushing if possible. Does not take more than a few moments to determine more of the same is going to result in more of the same. Otherwise, what options are you thinking, range gun only? Cut bait and trade it in?
I'm considering contacting Smith again to see if they have any new info or new springs, since my mags are malfunctioning again. To be honest, I'm tired of fooling with it and them... The gun is "at best" a range gun...it's not a gun I'd carry anyway, but with the last round issue there is no chance I'd ever try to depend on it. (I typically carry a Sig P365, a CZ P-01, or a Glock 33.) Definitely in the cut bait mode, but I'm not going to sell a defective gun to anyone...I'll likely just keep it in the safe as a transition gun for new shooters or maybe "give it away" with a caveat about its issue.

Edit: Ok, I called Smith and the rep I spoke with didn't really offer any new info, but he is sending out 4 new springs. Said he'd send more if these first 4 helped. I'll let you know if the new springs seem any different from the existing ones that I have...not expecting so though.

Last edited by christak; 02-12-2020 at 03:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 02-12-2020, 04:40 PM
Boogs Boogs is offline
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Illinois
Posts: 75
Likes: 9
Liked 28 Times in 21 Posts
Default

Be curious to hear how they compare, with consideration to differences in design/material.. they have to be aware of the issue if they are sending out parts in an attempt to resolve it
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #39  
Old 02-12-2020, 04:42 PM
Boogs Boogs is offline
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Illinois
Posts: 75
Likes: 9
Liked 28 Times in 21 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gc70 View Post
I have been able to make the one problematic magazine consistently operational by putting an empty casing between the bottom of the magazine spring and the base plate's inner retainer. That effectively turns the magazine into a 7-rounder, but it is a 7-rounder that always works.

New .380 EZ Issues-ezmag-jpg
This is absolute madness.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #40  
Old 02-12-2020, 06:54 PM
LVSteve's Avatar
LVSteve LVSteve is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lost Wages, NV
Posts: 11,283
Likes: 10,887
Liked 13,077 Times in 5,143 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogs View Post
This is absolute madness.
Yes, it is.

S&W clearly have the fix, it's called the 9 EZ magazine with a spacer for .380 at the back. How hard can it be?
__________________
Release the Kraken
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 02-12-2020, 11:55 PM
gc70 gc70 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: NC
Posts: 244
Likes: 147
Liked 323 Times in 101 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogs View Post
This is absolute madness.
Yes, it is crazy when customers have to bump around trying to diagnose problems and find solutions for a major firearms manufacturer.

Unfortunately, I had limited options to test the idea that the magazine spring was not strong enough. I did not have a heavier spring handy and the only other readily available way to increase spring tension was to reduce the space available for spring travel.

The next time there is a gun show near where I live, I will go in search of a heavier magazine spring. I have been tempted to have a nearby spring company make some heavier magazine springs, but my luck would be that the day they were delivered S&W would issue a recall and replace all EZ mag springs for free.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #42  
Old 02-13-2020, 10:57 AM
christak's Avatar
christak christak is online now
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Florida
Posts: 235
Likes: 217
Liked 154 Times in 97 Posts
Default

I have more springs coming from Smith and found/ordered a couple to try from an online vendor. No idea if the springs I ordered will even fit in the tube, but it was worth the $18.50 to me to give them a shot (...since I'm not expecting the new Smith springs to help).
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #43  
Old 02-13-2020, 07:00 PM
SJK2's Avatar
SJK2 SJK2 is offline
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 88
Likes: 153
Liked 28 Times in 23 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by christak View Post
I have more springs coming from Smith and found/ordered a couple to try from an online vendor. No idea if the springs I ordered will even fit in the tube, but it was worth the $18.50 to me to give them a shot (...since I'm not expecting the new Smith springs to help).
how bout a link to the online vendor.??
__________________
Steve....
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 02-13-2020, 07:16 PM
christak's Avatar
christak christak is online now
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Florida
Posts: 235
Likes: 217
Liked 154 Times in 97 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SJK2 View Post
how bout a link to the online vendor.??
I'll definitely post it if they look like they are going to work. The springs are "not" for the EZ... My order will supposedly arrive the middle of next week.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #45  
Old 02-14-2020, 04:35 PM
Execpro Execpro is online now
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Ohio
Posts: 304
Likes: 1,248
Liked 220 Times in 124 Posts
Default

Try "Boogs" solution at the range with the mags that fail to lock slide back on last round. If it works, then its a spring problem. JMO
I suggested on another 380 EZ post, that with all the members on this forum that someone could try a spring from another 380- 8 round mag from some other gun manufacturer to see if it resolved this problem If someone does, PLEASE list the gun you got it from!

Be SAFE and Shoot Often!
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 02-18-2020, 04:30 PM
christak's Avatar
christak christak is online now
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Florida
Posts: 235
Likes: 217
Liked 154 Times in 97 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by christak View Post
I'll definitely post it if they look like they are going to work. The springs are "not" for the EZ... My order will supposedly arrive the middle of next week.
Ok, I ordered the upgraded 10-round variant of the spring for the HiPoint CF380, (Google "HI-POINT-C9-9MM-CF380-MAGAZINE-SPRING-UPGRADE-FOR-8RD-10RD"). Unfortunately, the physical dimensions of the new spring are slightly too large to properly fit and move freely in the EZ magazine tube. The new spring was too long too, but that isn't a problem since I could shorten the spring as needed. I managed to force the new spring into the EZ tube and loaded 7 rounds. The spring doesn't fit well into the bottom of the follower and even shortening the spring didn't allow the 8th round to fit... I could obviously shorten the spring some more, but likely at a loss in the increased spring tension that i was hoping to add. I think the EZ mag would function with the spring, but "this particular spring" isn't the answer...wasted my $18.50. Sorry...

Have not yet received my new springs from Smith. I'll post again when those arrive.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #47  
Old 02-18-2020, 05:31 PM
Maddmax's Avatar
Maddmax Maddmax is offline
US Veteran
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: N.E. Iowa Boondocks USA
Posts: 2,862
Likes: 5,479
Liked 1,558 Times in 975 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandog View Post
Small pistols like Shield's and 3 inch 1911's have stiffer springs for a reason. If weaker springs in a small pistol were a good idea, all of them would come with weaker springs.

People choose the EZ because of hand strength issues, so it's no small stretch to think that many issues are limp wrist related.
Couple that with weaker recoil and mag springs and it's no wonder that there are so many threads about issues with the EZ.
Another thing to check. When gripping and shooting where is their thumb(s) gripping, resting ? Is it anywhere close to the slide ? It doesn't take much contact to slow the slide enough to have problems with the EZs.

My wife and I have both 380 & 9 EZs and haven't had any gun issues beyond her having a proper grip.
__________________
THIS WE'LL DEFEND ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 02-18-2020, 06:43 PM
akoda akoda is offline
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Richmond, Va.
Posts: 122
Likes: 85
Liked 204 Times in 65 Posts
Default

since starting this thread, I have put 150 rounds through ours with no issue, really starting to enjoy it

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #49  
Old 02-19-2020, 12:29 AM
Funflyer's Avatar
Funflyer Funflyer is online now
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Central Arizona
Posts: 637
Likes: 566
Liked 909 Times in 338 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Execpro View Post
I suggested on another 380 EZ post, that with all the members on this forum that someone could try a spring from another 380- 8 round mag from some other gun manufacturer to see if it resolved this problem If someone does, PLEASE list the gun you got it from!
Springs from my Bersa Thunder 380, and RIA Baby Rock both fit nicely in the 380EZ magazine. The Bersa spring allows for all 8 rounds to load in the EZ mag, however the Baby Rock spring will only allow 7 to fit. I think the Bersa spring might just do the trick as it definitely has a significant pressure increase but not enough to make it too difficult to load. The Baby Rock spring should work as well but will obviously need several coils cut off. Now are they available? A quick search didn't find any available, but they may be had from the importers. The Walther PPK springs may also work as they're for the 7.65 or 9mm. They're a 7 round mag if I recall, but have to be a higher pressure than the cheezee springs.

I also checked the pressure that it takes to move the follower down 1/2" with each spring in the EZ mag, along with measuring the wire diameter of each, and are as follows.

380EZ 18oz (.034" dia)
Bersa 46oz (.039" dia)
Baby Rock 76oz (.043 dia)
Attached Thumbnails
EZ 380 Shooter issue???-springs-jpg  
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #50  
Old 02-19-2020, 07:40 AM
sandog's Avatar
sandog sandog is offline
Member
EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue??? EZ 380 Shooter issue???  
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Arizona
Posts: 198
Likes: 262
Liked 237 Times in 91 Posts
Default

So let me see if I have this right, the Bersa spring is 3 times the strength of the EZ spring, and the Baby Rock spring is more than 4 times as strong.
So if you have to resort to that much stronger of a spring, the EZ isn't going to be so EZ to load after all.
Can't you just use regular Shield springs if you need a stiffer spring ?

I see guys that have lots of issues with their EZ, and then other threads where guys have put several hundred rounds through their new EZ and report no issues at all. ????
__________________
U. S. Army Veteran
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NC: Legislation SB S90 to change CCL process from SHALL ISSUE¯ to MAY ISSUE dmk0210 2nd Amendment Forum 26 06-29-2019 06:35 PM
Skeet shooter.....straight shooter THEMULE Feedback 0 02-06-2015 09:36 AM
66 Shooter is a straight shooter quinn Feedback 0 11-15-2013 03:34 PM
MOD 29 2012 issue finish issue> RON K. S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 10 10-24-2013 06:08 PM
Federal Champion 22 issue/ New shooter to the fold pawncop The Lounge 2 11-08-2010 01:33 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:35 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
© S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2020
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)