I am not a gunsmith, and the following is meant as a beginning point for discussion. Recently, a member wrote, concerning my statement that a modern pistol is not damaged by allowing the slide to close on an empty chamber:

"Depends upon the design of the pistol. Single action pistols, especially those with tuned actions, this is true {Do not close on empty chamber} as the slide slamming home on an empty chamber can cause the hammer to bounce and pound the sear's engagement surface, which will peen that surface. Eventually, the sear surface will round off, which leads to the sear no longer catching the hammer and the hammer will follow the slide.

With striker fired and DAO pistols, this is usually not an issue."

I believe this is a mostly accurate and carefully written statement, but I believe there is more to it. Any time there is a sear engaging a hammer or even a striker, the "bounce" referred to could be an issue for the stated reasons.

It seems to me that manufacturers are well aware of this potential. So, they design their firearms with original specs that prevent the potential for hammer bounce. They have sufficient springs, engagement surfaces and angles to keep the gun operating safely through tens of thousands of slide cycles--empty chamber or not. This usually means factory triggers are somewhat heavy, and because surfaces are not yet polished through wear, they may have a gritty and uneven pull. They smooth out and become better as they break in over a few hundred rounds--or hand operated slide cycles and trigger pulls on empty chambers. However, the gun is no less safe after the break in period. In fact, it is more reliable.

SA military pistols (like the former 1911s and Berettas) were required to have the slide slammed shut without a round in the chamber (by releasing the slide release--Oh NO!) and the trigger pulled on the empty chamber for a safety check before holstering, sometimes numerous times daily with a carried pistol. The SA hammer follow problem was not a common occurrence in the military.

If the difference in shock resonating through a pistol with the slide closing on an empty chamber vs. a loaded chamber is even measurable, I imagine, but do not know, it would be miniscule. If such closing of the slide on an empty chamber could cause hammer bounce to some degree, would it not also happen when a round is in the chamber to some (lesser?) degree? In other words, every time the pistol is loaded or fired?

Now, if you want a glass break, 3#, short take up/no over travel target trigger on any gun not originally designed for it, SA 1911 or striker fired, you can do it. Good gunsmiths can deliver this trigger pull, but the gun is now out of original spec. And if a home gunsmith does this trigger job? It may have lighter springs, reduced engagement surfaces with different angles, in other words, it may have become a delicate piece that needs special care to keep functioning safely. It may wear out quicker and become unsafe sooner than a factory spec pistol.

For these types of specialty pistols, the advice of not dropping the slide on an empty chamber may be wise. However, this is a very small subset of the pistols in circulation, and their owners wanting such delicate, high performance pistols with tighter tolerances for greater accuracy are probably aware of the restrictive handing required to keep them running safely.

IOW, it seems to me that not dropping your slide on an empty chamber is rather specific, not general, advice. For most shooters, especially new shooters with a modern pistol, dropping the slide on an empty chamber is a helpful exercise in learning the mechanics of the firearm. The firearm is designed to not allow hammer/striker bounce, so it is not an issue. The benefits outweigh the very, very small risks.

In my opinion.

It is definitely going to be a great discussion.

My opinion:
slide slamming home on empty chamber doesn't do anything bad...
...unless
you have a handgun with fine tuned action, where 1/64 of inch can make difference.

Anyway, if you buy regular mass production handgun - you can drive slide on empty chamber thousand times... and it won't change anything...
If you spend $5K.. the manufacturer will tell you not to do this.

"Unload and show clear. Close the slide. Pull the trigger. Holster. The range is safe."

Required at the end of every action pistol stage including in every IDPA, USPSA, ICORE, and IPSC match I've been in. If you or your gun is too delicate for this, don't enter. I have broken ONE Browning BDM firing pin dry firing on an empty chamber in 50 years of shooting. No other damage.

LOTS of high priced 1911s and 2011s in USPSA do this drill.
(Just release the slide with your hand, not the slide catch, then pull the trigger)

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Science plus Art

I've been doing It for 45 years or so........Ain't hurt nothing yet........Ain't gonna change. And I do call magazines clips at times. Everybody knows what you're talking about.

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S&W Accumulator

This not conclusive because there is no detail on how the slide is 'closed'. I never slingshot my slide when I close it in idpa matches, or at any other time when there is no loaded mag in place. I can feel a difference in how hard the slide slams forward w/o a mag vs w/ a mag. Will it hurt the gun? I don't know. But I can easily reduce that smack by riding the slide forward, so I do. Why wouldn't I? There is no hurry involved in this process so, if I add 1/10 second, it won't hurt anything. To me this is a simple general appreciation of how mechanical equipment works and how I can reduce wear by choosing one method vs another.

My only two semi autos are the original LCP & M&P 2.0 Compact. Does anyone know if it’s okay to drop the slide on an empty chamber on either of these?

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

I don’t understand why we’re discussing babying a piece of equipment designed to facilitate a controlled explosion which propels a projectile at hundreds of feet per second and then slams a hunk of metal back towards the operator with purpose. You oughta see how many times the action gets worked at speed during the assembly and testing process . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I saw a video on the subject recently posted by Brownells, and according to the gunsmith in the video, it's not something that can hurt your firearm if done infrequently, but you obviously shouldn't do it often or frequently because there's really no need to do so.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

The hammer is not going to peen or damage the sear surface if the slide is closed either suddenly or slowly. The hammer and sear springs hold the hammer engaged with the sear. If the trigger pull is set so light that the hammer bounces out of engagement from shock, the hammer will fall, same as dry firing. I have a 1911 that will often bounce the hammer our of engagement when the slide drops on a live found, causing a double fire, but nothing gets damaged.

The only reason to drop the slide on empty chamber more than 10 - 20 times a day is dry fire... which I do almost everyday and my M&P has to eat this about 200 times/day (that gives about 4K whacks per month).
It still shoots perfectly

What irritates me more is when you hand your empty handgun to another person and they slam home the slide using the slide stop an empty chamber. i just think it's very ignorant to handle someone else handgun in that manner. In my case, it was a 1942 Walther P38.

So they release the slide with a device you call the “slide release,” and you’re mad?

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I should have said slide stop, and yes, I didn't like it at all.

If I recall my physics, that action carries less force than a: firing the pistol, and b: yanking the slide back to release the slide stop and letting the slide slam forward . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Oh come on, you ease the slide forward and do not slingshot. i thought that was a given.

It’s not a given at all. It’s a machine designed to control a small explosion and expell a projectile at hundreds of feet per second, slamming the slide rearward, which then slams forward at speed with force. I’d quit handing my pistol to people without a checklist, PowerPoint, and pre and post written and practical test . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

If you train yourself to ease the slide forward, do you not risk this carrying over to do the same when loading a round into the chamber and thus potentially causing a misfeed? I have to work hard to prevent new shooters from doing this, seems like they always want to "baby" the gun and ease the slide forward.

Wow, you're not training yourself to ease the slide forward on an empty chamber. It's just common courtesy to handle someone else's handgun in a less violent manner, especially if it's a collectable. There's a very obvious difference between loading a round into the chamber or slamming home on an empty chamber.

Don’t hand collectable firearms to people without giving instructions. . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I agree with that.

Understand that I’m not saying that your instructions will be correct. I’m just saying you will want to make sure they won’t do things with/to that firearm that will make you mad, regardless of whether or not they are actually damaging to the firearm . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I asked a good friend not to let the slide slam on an empty pistol of mine. He claimed it did not hurt them and they were meant to be able to take it and let the slide slam shut!! He was going to do it again and I took my pistol away from him and told him he was no longer welcome in my home. That was about 5 years ago, we still have not spoken.

I fully realize it probably will not hurt the pistol, I have shot over 30,000 rounds through it and never a problem. But it is mine and I asked him to not let it slam shut. One friend I will not miss!!

That is a strange hill to die on, especially after you acknowledge that what he did in your opinion probably was fine. I’m gonna guess that action was the last straw of many other indiscretions . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

The pistol was just an old 1911 that had been thoroughly worked over by some gunsmith in California named Amend Swenson.

Training to overcome a problem that doesn’t exist doesn’t make any sense to me, especially if you fight as you train and such training could interfere with fighting.

Being respectful of other people’s equipment, especially at their request, is just polite behavior. Handling an older or high value gun is a privilege.

Riding a slide forward doesn’t hurt anything on any gun, except for the potential of ingraining a bad habit into one’s subconscious. I have two otherwise completely reliable guns that often won’t go fully into battery with a slide ride, even with an empty chamber. Both barrel hoods fit tight to the slide. Babying them can cause a FtFire. If it is truly necessary to baby a gun this way, is it mostly for games or for EDC? Games, eh, doesn’t matter. Fighting? That’s different IMO.

I don’t pretend to be one who has never made any modifications to my guns. I have even polished components and lightened a spring or two. I’ve added Apex parts. Yet I allow my slide to slam shut on empty chambers on all my guns, mostly using the slide lever. Some have as many of these practice/training cycles as live fire cycles. I’ve never seen sear peening or had hammer/striker follow. I acknowledge it could happen, but it seems not until after many, many tens of thousands of cycles over a long time. Looking for the wear and changing out parts before it becomes dangerous (tactical reload of parts) would keep this at the non-problem level, and allow simply operating the release without further care or steps being required.

Why would it make a difference mechanically in a pistol whether the chamber is empty or the slide is chambering a round when the slide is returned to battery under the full force of the recoil spring? I would think, logically speaking, a slide closing on an empty chamber is less stressful on the moving parts such as the breech face and the ejector since there is no cartridge for them to come in contact with.
That's just me thinking out loud, I don't mean any offense to anyone else and their opinions.

Sounds like most or all of the OP was in reference to "tuned"
1911 actions.

No, the same impact/wear on hammer & sear doesn't happen
every time the pistol is fired. During firing cycle, the trigger is
still held to rear, as slide recocks hammer.

Maybe Jerry Miculek has the trigger coming of the sear before the
slide recocks the hammer, but no one else does!

And you can see peening on slide stop shaft and barrel lugs,
where slide's forward momentum is stopped, during return to
battery. Repeated slingshotting of empty 1911A1s is harder on
those surfaces than firing, without the slide losing velocity to
pushing a round out of magazine and driving same into the
chamber. That peening of slide stop shaft and barrel lugs
(and even links, to a degree) were part of the GI .45's rattly
sloppiness.

Can anyone quantify the difference in slide closing physics RE: empty chamber vs. loading the chamber? Don’t both actions achieve the same full lock up? Is the amount of slide velocity loss due to friction with loading the round so substantial that there is no hammer jump, but yes with an empty chamber to the point of ruining an in-spec gun? I can’t quite grasp this concept.

I ride the slide down on an empty chamber because I have some mechanical sympathy. It doesn't cost me anything.

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Release the Kraken

I can’t remember the last time I used the slide stop at all on my 1911’s.

I don’t shoot my gun dry, so in clearing the action I drop the magazine then remove the cartridge in the chamber and ride the slide to close the action. The slide is never locked back by the slide stop.

This isn’t as a result of any concern about wearing the action: it’s just a matter of gun handling, since you never shoot your gun dry. If you do, you’ve just got a blunt instrument while reloading.

Don't treat another person's property with disdain, nor the person with disrespect.

'Karen' says, the military Beretta (M92)
Is a DA/SA pistol.
There were a few special civilian m92 models that were SAO.
All's good!

Umm, no. He doesn't.


And this is from his 1911 Owner's Manual, p. 25:

"6. Hammer Follow
A Wilson Combat® 1911 has a finely tuned hammer and sear surfaces to provide you a safe but light and crisp trigger pull that will last the average shooter a lifetime. If these surfaces become damaged or lose adjustment you may experience the hammer following to half cock when the slide drops on an empty chamber. Because of this, it is never advised to slam or drop the slide on an empty chamber from the fully retracted or slide lock position. When handling a Wilson Combat® 1911 you should always ease the slide down on an empty chamber unless you are feeding ammunition from the magazine to load the firearm. If you experience hammer follow to the half cock notch while loading, handling or shooting your firearm please contact Wilson Combat® Customer Service."

LOL!! Guilty as charged. Retired plus the pandemic has left me with too much time on my hands.

So, does 'Karen' drop her slide on an empty chamber?

Post #27 has the info.

I find myself wondering why this thread was posted in the M&P pistols portion of the forum.

Personally I don't worry about his issue with striker fired or DA/SA semi-auto pistols. I don't let the slide drop on an empty chamber on a 1911. Why subject parts to unnecessary wear? I really like the 1911 platform but the only one I own has a 5" barrel. I prefer something smaller for carry (usually a M&P 2.0 40 Compact). I do really like the ergonomics & trigger pull of a 1911 though.

I don't but I'm picky.

I'm actually less worried about 1911. This platform can survive thousands of empty chamber slide hits.
Of course all it's about the user, how he feels about that... but the firearm by itself doesn't care - it is not gonna break.

I have always slowed the slide closing on an empty chamber, also I slingshot the slide and never use the slide stop lever to move the slide into battery with or without a round to chamber.

I believe this member has it right. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do something.

I've fired lots of rounds through my guns. I don't baby them, but I don't mistreat them either. I can throw a hammer on the ground, but I don't because I was taught not to mistreat tools. Guns are no different.

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Freedom isn't free.

I've spent my fair share of man hours on police and military ranges. I was always trained and I have always trained that you never ride the slide forward, empty or not. In fact if you did, you would expect to be yelled at. Of course it will cause wear just like shooting the gun will cause ware. It is part of gun handling. I don't think that I have ever seen a 1911, or any other gun, break down from dropping the slide. I understand that highly tuned guns can be affected differently but if your gun is so sensitive that you get hammer fall or a peened sear from this, you probably shouldn't be taking the gun out in public and you should definitely avoid letting others handle it. This whole drop the slide argument has kind of become the 1911 "How many angles can sit on the head of a pin?" argument.

Reading comprehension--it applies to TUNED actions, gents.

The GI arms room .45s had actions like two e-tools sliding
over a football. You can drop the slide, empty, as much as
you want with those, won't hurt a thing.

Dunning-Kruger in action, or what?

My first 1911 was a very hard used WWI surplus. It would fire the first round on its own, or double or more. My friend was well acquainted with this vintage pistol and taught with absolute authority!!

When you closed the slide on a loaded magazine you held the hammer back with your left hand took a tight grip on the pistol and fully expected it to go off at any time. You were ready and when it did you could maintain full control and there were no accidents.

I doubt that many reading this forum have even heard about these old worn out 1911s and would not be ready for a new one to fire without you touching the trigger. It can still happen, had a Gold Cup for a few weeks that could and would go up to 4 in row. Sent it back to Colt 3 times and it continued, finally traded it to a friend who thought it was fun stuff.

That is why I don't play games with the present crowd, just me and my dogs and we do fine and enjoy each round one at a time.

I hope this doesn't step on any toes, but I've never, ever heard such a thing. Ever. Anywhere. Every aspect of semi-auto work I've ever participated in involved "dropping" the slide on an empty chamber multiple times. If we were told anything, it was to never "ride" the slide and slow it down.
Maybe this is something that folks with overpriced shooting mechanisms (just calling them "guns" seems so cheap) need to worry about, but not us mere peasants with our mass-produced shootin' irons. (Heck, with all the rules and requirements they seem to have, like how many bore-brush strokes are required or something, it makes me wonder if they're too tired to shoot!)

...and I do what feels right at the time. I don't abuse them in any way and I don't baby them either. If I had a prize target pistol I may do things a little different, but I have no hard and fast rules on this.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Sorry, Ralph, but you're wrong. Obviously, easing the slide forward one time to show respect to someone and their property is going to subconsciously ingrain a "training habit" that will cause you to die nest Tuesday when you need to do the speed reload that occurs with each and every defensive shooting.

My Uncle allowed me to handle his Gold Cup when I was a young man. I think he almost dozed off while I closed it back up to hand it back.

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Because of the metric system?

I’m the OP. Thanks for this wide ranging discussion.

My opinion about dropping a slide on an empty chamber has mellowed.

I still believe modern in spec guns will not be substantially harmed by this practice, at least not for tens of thousands of rounds. During this time other gun parts will wear out. Very few shooters ever put more than a few thousands rounds through a gun. For them, this kind of wear will not be an issue.

I agree that slightly riding the slide to reduce slamming is not hard to do and would certainly delay long term wear. It’s also just polite, and even professional, when handling other people’s pistols, whether they ask for such an accommodation or not.

Now, on any expensive customized gun with more delicate, fitted interfaces, I can see that educated owners would handle them so they will last longer, reliably. I’ll bet those owners treat others’ guns with appropriate respect.

I went shooting my FS M&P 9mm yesterday. Out of habit, I dropped the slide using the release on an empty chamber. This thread washed through my mind. The next time I had the opportunity to close the slide on an empty chamber, I again used the slide release but slowed the forward motion a little with an overhand grip. I smiled.

That wasn’t so bad CB3! Maybe this forum can teach an old dog new tricks.

Wow, thanks for the effort.

I'm an engineer myself, and treat my "Babies" like they are made of glass.

Why apply unnecessary force to any handling or use.

When stripping a round from the magazine and feeding it into the chamber, the slide is (theoretically) being slowed by friction. So, dropping the slide on an empty chamber should carry a higher shock load. The ejector isn't involved in the feed cycle. The extractor does provide some slight friction when the cartridge rim slides up under it (it doesn't snap down on the case rim).

No one seems to have mentioned the rebound effect from the slide contacting the recoil spring guide flange and frame during the firing cycle.