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Old 12-20-2020, 12:59 AM
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Default Manual Safety issue on M&P2.0

Just got a #13144 M&P, Optic ready 9mm Compact w/manual safety. Pulled it out of the box and looks great. But, and it's a big "BUT" the manual safety goes from off to on and back with virtually no effort. Using a trigger scale it goes from one position to other with a pound and a half. That is really cool for a trigger on a target rifle. but it's totally wrong for a manual safety on an M&P. I stowed everything back in the box & I'll be calling S&W Monday and see what they have to say. Mildly curious if others have had this issue or if I just got lucky and drew a short straw.

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Old 12-20-2020, 01:09 AM
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Default Shield safety

When the Shields first came out I bought one. It immediately went back to Smith for the same issue and another problem. When I got it back everything was fine, safety was much stiffer.
I did eventually get rid of it because it wasn't accurite. I have a Sig 365 for my EDC gun now.
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Old 12-20-2020, 01:26 AM
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In my experience the M & P manual safety doesn't take much effort to move, but what you describe doesn't sound right. Sounds like a liability issue the factory would want to fix.
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Old 12-20-2020, 01:43 AM
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Mildly curious if others have had this issue or if I just got lucky and drew a short straw.
Answering your question - you have "just got lucky and drew a short straw"
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Old 12-20-2020, 09:12 AM
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The dual safety on the Compact and Fullsize guns is too easy to operate.
When I first got one I found the safety would engage when firing, so for a while I shot with my thumb holding it down.

When I had it apart I took a punch and put a burr in the safety where it brushes past the detent. Now it takes some effort to engage/disengage the safety.
If you send it to Smith that's probably what they will do, I am not aware of other methods that will stiffen the safety.
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Old 12-20-2020, 04:07 PM
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Thanks for the comments. Sandog, I think you probably have the fix spot on, but having busted up a hand I'm gong to forego trying to do any single handed gun work for a while. Thus S&W will have to fill in and fix this puppy. Minor inconvenience, as I feel comfortable tha S&W will handle it.†
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Old 12-20-2020, 04:22 PM
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There is a spring loaded detent in the assembly. The main problem is the plunger spring is too weak (opinion), and the cavity for the plunger in the actual safety lever is very shallow and smooth. These two issues combine to make the safety lever anything but a "safety". More like a liability that may express itself at the worst time imaginable.

The other issue is that the exposed abidextrous lever is actually too big. (opinion again)

I agree, this design flaw needs to be addressed and "fixed" asap.
We, as end users can "fix" these issues ourselves by modifying the design....but we shouldn't have to, should we?
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Old 12-20-2020, 04:51 PM
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Yes, the thumb safety on the M&Ps is really lighter than it could or should be. However, you have to realize that the thumb safety is completely superfluous on the M&P. All it does is block trigger movement.

Rule #3: Keep your finger off the trigger until pointed in at the intended target.

Holster: Get a proper holster that covers the trigger.

Follow these two rules and there is no need for the thumb safety.

I suspect that even if you send it to S&W, it will come back exactly as it already is.
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Old 12-20-2020, 05:31 PM
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Whether or not the thumb safety on the M&P is "completely superfluous", or unnecessary is surely debatable.

The problem is that if my M&P has the lever installed, or is fitted with one from the factory, it want it to work as it should. That is, I fully expect the lever will stay "on" or engaged when the I want it to be on, and "off" or disengaged when I want it to be off. This was not the case, on my particular example. The lever could be moved up or down with the slightest effort, sometimes inadvertently.

This defect (my opinion again) is the first thing I noticed about the M&P Compact when I removed it from the box and did the required safety check on the gun.
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Old 12-20-2020, 05:48 PM
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Old 12-20-2020, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by armorer951 View Post
Whether or not the thumb safety on the M&P is "completely superfluous", or unnecessary is surely debatable.

The problem is that if my M&P has the lever installed, or is fitted with one from the factory, it want it to work as it should. That is, I fully expect the lever will stay "on" or engaged when the I want it to be on, and "off" or disengaged when I want it to be off. This was not the case, on my particular example. The lever could be moved up or down with the slightest effort, sometimes inadvertently.

This defect (my opinion again) is the first thing I noticed about the M&P Compact when I removed it from the box and did the required safety check on the gun.
I completely understand your point. However, this opens the question, how is it intended to work? What if S&W intended it to be super easy?

To me, a device like this works if it stays on under normal circumstances. I have an M&P .45 with a thumb safety. I have carried it for weeks at a time and never found the thumb safety to be inadvertently off. I can whack the butt on a table and the thumb safety doesn't fall out of safe. That's good enough for me.

Even so, the point is, even if the thumb safety were to be flipped off, the gun is still inherently safe.
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Old 12-20-2020, 09:47 PM
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Even so, the point is, even if the thumb safety were to be flipped off, the gun is still inherently safe.
Theoretically... yes. It is completely safe. From manufacturer's perceptive - yes, it is completely safe.
Is it still safe if accidentally part of the garment gets into the holster while reholstering? Not, it isn't.

I know, the safety is on us, but sometimes people are looking for something extra... I'm one of them. I really appreciate thumb safety on ALL of my handguns.


Anyway, regarding original post - that safety lever is just mounted wrong. From security perspective, sending it back to S&W seems to be best decision.
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Old 12-21-2020, 03:21 PM
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Input much appreciated. With that said I'm guessing S&W's fix would be less than I would like, as their "acceptable criterion" would probably not mesh with mine. I'll work on a spring replacement and modify the safety lever detents myself. Will just have to wait until my hand heals up to get started. No big deal, but appreciate the comments & suggestions.
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Old 12-29-2020, 02:03 PM
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Being a 1911 guy for 30+ years all of my M&P's have a thumb safety. Yes, they are much too easy to click on and off.

Funny, I just picked up a Springfield XD45 with manual safety and that safety feels just like my 1911's. I wish S&W would increase the thumb safety spring weight or deepen the clicks to firm it up.
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Old 12-29-2020, 03:39 PM
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Being a 1911 guy for 30+ years all of my M&P's have a thumb safety. Yes, they are much too easy to click on and off.

Funny, I just picked up a Springfield XD45 with manual safety and that safety feels just like my 1911's. I wish S&W would increase the thumb safety spring weight or deepen the clicks to firm it up.
My M&Pís all have the thumb safeties. I would like a more positive click and a bit more effort to engage or disengage them. What I would also like is a one sided safety lever and for the levers to be a tad smaller.

In the world of endless aftermarket options, Iím surprised nobody is making newer safeties. The safety on these guns are just a plastic lever with a spring. You can get Punisher striker plates and Glock pistol bayonets, why not a new safety?
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Old 12-29-2020, 05:14 PM
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I only have a Shield 9 and a 45. I don't mean it sarcastically, but you all must have much more sensitive fingers than I do. I've had the 9 since maybe 2013(?) and the 45 since they brought it out and I've never noticed a problem with light safety levers. My method (PD instructor taught) is be sure safety is off as it goes in the holster for the day. Safety on only when instructed on the range or (my own option) when I put it away at home. Since there's a "ridge" where the safety rests in the off position, I've never worried about accidentally flipping it up. Thanks for your time!
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Old 12-29-2020, 07:15 PM
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I only have a Shield 9 and a 45. I don't mean it sarcastically, but you all must have much more sensitive fingers than I do. I've had the 9 since maybe 2013(?) and the 45 since they brought it out and I've never noticed a problem with light safety levers. My method (PD instructor taught) is be sure safety is off as it goes in the holster for the day. Safety on only when instructed on the range or (my own option) when I put it away at home. Since there's a "ridge" where the safety rests in the off position, I've never worried about accidentally flipping it up. Thanks for your time!
I donít carry my 9 Compact or .45 M&P, so Iíve never bumped the safety off or on. But as I said, Iíd prefer a one sided safety lever and a more positive click. The Ruger SR9 guns had a great safety. One side, less obnoxiously big, and a nice positive click as it went off or on. I think the Shield lever is nearly perfect. Iíd like a hair wider safety rather than the one that is so flush.
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Old 12-30-2020, 10:27 AM
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The dual safety on the Fullsize M&P is great for us left handers, the single safety on the Shield..... not so much.
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Old 12-30-2020, 10:39 AM
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I only have a Shield 9 and a 45. I don't mean it sarcastically, but you all must have much more sensitive fingers than I do. I've had the 9 since maybe 2013(?) and the 45 since they brought it out and I've never noticed a problem with light safety levers. My method (PD instructor taught) is be sure safety is off as it goes in the holster for the day. Safety on only when instructed on the range or (my own option) when I put it away at home. Since there's a "ridge" where the safety rests in the off position, I've never worried about accidentally flipping it up. Thanks for your time!
GerSan, Shields are different, a tiny safety that is stiff.
The fullsize, and the compact like the OP is talking about, has a dual sided safety like ambi 1911 safeties, and all the ones I've seen are way easy to engage/disengage.
It's not that we have sensitive fingers.

As far as Shields, my .45 Shield has a slightly bigger safety lever and a slightly more positive click that the 9mm and .40 Shields.
But still small, and me being a lefty, impossible to disengage when drawing out of the holster.

I use it as you do, engage and shove into holster, then once it's secure, disengage.
It also handy to use when loading or unloading and you aren't where you have the pistol pointed safely downrange, like in the house or a vehicle.
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Old 12-30-2020, 10:40 AM
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The dual safety on the Fullsize M&P is great for us left handers, the single safety on the Shield..... not so much.
I understand that. But it's a piece of plastic. They offer the plugs to convert the safety model to non-safety model. With all the other available factory options and aftermarket options, I don't see why a single sided safety wouldn't be available. I know I'd buy one. There are companies devoted to the M&P line. Apex, Galloway Precision to name a few. Nobody NEEDS a Hello Kitty logo on the Striker Plate, but it's there if you do.
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Old 12-30-2020, 10:45 AM
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None of my safeties are plastic, they are metal, both fullsize and Shield.
I've had them out and handled them when installing Apex fire control parts.

I wonder if any right handers have tried to remove the off side lever ?
Should just be a matter of cutting the right side lever off.
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Old 12-30-2020, 05:16 PM
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None of my safeties are plastic, they are metal, both fullsize and Shield.
They are a metal lever with plastic pads. The pads can be easily ground down to make them smaller.


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I wonder if any right handers have tried to remove the off side lever ?
Should just be a matter of cutting the right side lever off.
Yes, this modification has been done many times. There was one company making modified safeties, both with smaller pads and single sided.

Just buy a new safety and modify it how you like. I'd be more than happy to modify one.
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Old 12-31-2020, 12:07 AM
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Yes, the thumb safety on the M&Ps is really lighter than it could or should be. However, you have to realize that the thumb safety is completely superfluous on the M&P. All it does is block trigger movement.

Rule #3: Keep your finger off the trigger until pointed in at the intended target.

Holster: Get a proper holster that covers the trigger.

Follow these two rules and there is no need for the thumb safety.

I suspect that even if you send it to S&W, it will come back exactly as it already is.
I'm very happy with my thumb safety, and I'm gonna disagree with you 1 time, and one time only! Smith and Wesson "will" fix that safety, 50 bucks on it brother!

So OP, we do want to know! lol
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Old 12-31-2020, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by presspics View Post
Being a 1911 guy for 30+ years all of my M&P's have a thumb safety. Yes, they are much too easy to click on and off.

Funny, I just picked up a Springfield XD45 with manual safety and that safety feels just like my 1911's. I wish S&W would increase the thumb safety spring weight or deepen the clicks to firm it up.
My full size M&P has an awesome safety, just like my 1911's, I wanted and searched until I found one with a thumb safety..
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Old 12-31-2020, 04:02 PM
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I'm very happy with my thumb safety, and I'm gonna disagree with you 1 time, and one time only! Smith and Wesson "will" fix that safety, 50 bucks on it brother!

So OP, we do want to know! lol
I'll take that bet, but on a condition; we'd have to measure the amount of pressure necessary now and what it's like after the "fix" by S&W. That way we can know definitively if they've made any change.

I've read about too many guns being sent to S&W for repair only to see them come back the same. Sometimes S&W states that they've fixed them and sometimes they say it's in spec and do nothing. I suspect this one will be the same. S&W will either "fix" it or say that it's in spec, but the feel will be the same regardless. Why? Because this is a super common complaint. People have had this complaint since the day the thumb safety appeared on the M&P line. Yet, S&W has never made any change to the design. So, I suspect they'll do nothing and say it's in spec.

Honestly, I'd love to be wrong and have it come back from the factory in satisfactory condition.
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Old 01-01-2021, 05:51 PM
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The detent spring on my M&P with the thumb safety appeared to be pretty good, so I borrowed a page from Sandog's book and roughed up the safety where the detent contacts it and it is much improved. I may touch it up just a little bit more when I next workbench it to install the Apex flat faced trigger kit, but I'm OK with the safety now. I'm glad that I opted to do the fix myself rather than send it back to S&W.
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Old 01-01-2021, 06:58 PM
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Sometimes it's easier to fix minor things yourself.
As other's have said, Smith would be likely to just look at it, send it back to you with nothing done, and a note that says "it's within spec".
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Old 01-01-2021, 07:02 PM
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I think Smith put that safety on the Shield and BG just so that it can be sold in communist states. Although no one is going to admit it, I don't think they expect anyone to actually carry those guns with it engaged.
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Old 01-01-2021, 09:35 PM
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I think Smith put that safety on the Shield and BG just so that it can be sold in communist states. Although no one is going to admit it, I don't think they expect anyone to actually carry those guns with it engaged.
I appreciate thumb safety on my M&P, which I carry. I don't know if my State of Illinois is considered by you as "communist" but we do have a free choice of buying firearms with and without safety levers.
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Old 01-01-2021, 11:11 PM
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Illinois isn't Communist, just Cook County !
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Old 01-03-2021, 02:45 PM
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I'll take that bet, but on a condition; we'd have to measure the amount of pressure necessary now and what it's like after the "fix" by S&W. That way we can know definitively if they've made any change.

I've read about too many guns being sent to S&W for repair only to see them come back the same. Sometimes S&W states that they've fixed them and sometimes they say it's in spec and do nothing. I suspect this one will be the same. S&W will either "fix" it or say that it's in spec, but the feel will be the same regardless. Why? Because this is a super common complaint. People have had this complaint since the day the thumb safety appeared on the M&P line. Yet, S&W has never made any change to the design. So, I suspect they'll do nothing and say it's in spec.

Honestly, I'd love to be wrong and have it come back from the factory in satisfactory condition.
I am just as concerned as you Brother about Smith and Wesson's newer weapon's and the issues that purchasing one seems to bring with it... and I can't hit a dang thing with my 5" .40 M&P!

But it's NOT the Trigger, and its NOT the safety, the trigger is consistent and goes "bang" exactly when I expect it to, and the safety is no less than "lovely", "perfect" even! nice, smooth, precise, audible application, and same goes for "flicking" the safety OFF! "Click!", "Click!", and I love the longer lever!

I'm extremely disappointed at times when poster's who by all appearances have issues with recent production Smith and Wesson's, who come with their concerns, and are roundly criticized for questioning Smith and Wesson's response to their apparently legitimate concerns..

On the other hand, I do believe that Smith and Wesson would give their full attention to rectifying an issue with a manual safety. I don't think Smith and Wesson's issues are because they don't care, I think they do care, but they are likely overwhelmed by the tremendous work load, and it is no doubt difficult to diagnose and rectify specific issues with specific firearms that may be intermittent and difficult to pin down.

but you are no doubt right that Smith and Wesson should resolve this issue post-haste, and it is disappointing that they would skim over what appears to have become a "known issue".

Cheers and Happy New Year Komrade Rastoff!
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Old 01-03-2021, 03:03 PM
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Illinois isn't Communist, just Cook County !
Greetings Komrade SanDoggie, while it is much more conservative here in "Central O", driving around our small town of 1200, mostly farm and rural residents, I'm rather disappointed with a lot of what I see and hear..

I work in the public school system, and I'm very pleased that our staff is hard working and honestly rather conservative, and they care a lot about kid's and education! I'm proud to be a part of that..

but there are those, who apparently continue to grow in number, who do NOT defend our second ammendment rights or even our human rights, and vote to take away our many grand and glorious freedoms... it is indeed troubling, but like you, I agree that many of our concern's stem from Cook County where our freedom to "keep and bear" is routinely and roundly stolen, by those with no reverence for the price paid to win those freedom's...

I'd like to thank you, and all who serve, or have served in our military. Thank you for continuing to fight and guard our freedoms, particularly those of you whom are member's of the Smith and Wesson forum! Happy New Year!
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Old 01-03-2021, 03:49 PM
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Well I have a 1.0 M&P 9 with the amphibious safety and it goes click when I engage it and goes click when I disengage it. Pretty solid in either direction. You have to actually try to move it from one to the other. Has never engaged by itself or disengaged by itself and from what I feel, it has to be something more than an accidental brush to move it either way. Don't have a scale to actually measure how much pressure it takes to disengage but it feels about the same, if not a bit lighter than the pressure needed to fire the gun using the trigger. And I've got the original factory trigger-no after market parts
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Old 01-03-2021, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jurek View Post
I appreciate thumb safety on my M&P, which I carry. I don't know if my State of Illinois is considered by you as "communist" but we do have a free choice of buying firearms with and without safety levers.
I don't know about Illinois but Chicago is in Illinois, last I checked, and they make Moscow look like a bastion of freedom and democracy. In order to sell a semi auto here in Massachusetts, which is definitely a communist state, the gun must have a manual safety. I'm sure it's also true in some of the other states that are located behind enemy lines, like Venezuela, I mean California.
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Old 01-03-2021, 05:29 PM
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Iíve owned and examined quite a few M&Ps with thumb safeties because I prefer to have the safety, regardless of whether the design is ďcompletely safeĒ with or without it. That is totally irrelevant to me. Anyway, of these guns, including the five or six Iíve owned myself, exactly NONE of them has had what I consider adequate tension on the safety lever, so the hit or miss record is pretty clear to me. M I S S ! A safety is a pretty poor thing to consistently mess up so badly.
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Old 01-03-2021, 05:37 PM
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Personally, I don't think the thumb safety is "messed up" as it comes from the factory. Does it take less pressure than a 1911? Absolutely! Is it unsafe? Not at all.

I've carried an M&P 45 for hundreds of hours. I've done this on normal days when I was out hiking or just working around the house or just out on the town. Never once has the thumb safety been found to be off.

I don't think there's anything wrong with it. It's just not as stiff as some are used to.
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Old 01-03-2021, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmj8591 View Post
I think Smith put that safety on the Shield and BG just so that it can be sold in communist states. Although no one is going to admit it, I don't think they expect anyone to actually carry those guns with it engaged.
I use them.
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Old 01-03-2021, 07:44 PM
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Me too! Thatís why I bought the lousy Bodyguard .380.
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Old 01-04-2021, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
Personally, I don't think the thumb safety is "messed up" as it comes from the factory. Does it take less pressure than a 1911? Absolutely! Is it unsafe? Not at all.

I've carried an M&P 45 for hundreds of hours. I've done this on normal days when I was out hiking or just working around the house or just out on the town. Never once has the thumb safety been found to be off.

I don't think there's anything wrong with it. It's just not as stiff as some are used to.
The problem isn't that the safety comes off while being carried on the hip. I have no issue with the safety being off while the pistol is secure in it's Kydex holster.

I do have concerns when I'm shooting and the safety is engaged, then your next shot doesn't go bang.
Before I stiffened up my safety to how it should have come from the factory, I made sure my thumb was over the safety and holding it down. That was the temporary fix.

But I'd rather not have to modify my grip in order to keep the safety from being engaged while shooting. So I made it stiffer.
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Old 01-04-2021, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by CAJUNLAWYER View Post
Well I have a 1.0 M&P 9 with the amphibious safety and it goes click when I engage it and goes click when I disengage it. Pretty solid in either direction. You have to actually try to move it from one to the other. Has never engaged by itself or disengaged by itself and from what I feel, it has to be something more than an accidental brush to move it either way. Don't have a scale to actually measure how much pressure it takes to disengage but it feels about the same, if not a bit lighter than the pressure needed to fire the gun using the trigger. And I've got the original factory trigger-no after market parts
I guess an amphibious safety is a good thing to have when you live in Louisiana, with all those lakes and swamps !
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Old 01-04-2021, 01:46 PM
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I prefer the safety model M&P, I own several, both full size and compact. I also modify them as they are too easy to engage/disengage, and for me as a righty, the right side safety bothers me shooting.
ALL my pistol have been modified by removing the safety assy, cutting off the right side safety, and deepening the safety detents with a round needle point file. They are all positive engaging and disengaging. I also make a custom plastic filler to fill the hole in the frame.
This works for me !
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Old 01-06-2021, 02:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandog View Post
....I made sure my thumb was over the safety and holding it down. That was the temporary fix.
Shouldn't be a "temporary" fix, it's the right way to hold the gun. There are several benefits to putting your thumb on top of the safety.

And, it's important to note that if you engage the safety while shooting, this can happen with any safety regardless of how stiff it is. Unless your thumb is on top of it.
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Old 01-06-2021, 09:11 AM
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Rastoff, agreed, that thumb on safety is a good thing, but then the inside of your thumb is rubbing the moving slide.
I prefer to have my thumb lower at the same level as the forefinger on the other side.

I haven't had any instances of the safety inadvertently coming on while shooting since I stiffened it up, but one would be too many, especially if it happened in an SD situation.

I can see where you right hand guys want to reduce the right side paddle, as it's not the one you use.
The safety being engaged prematurely isn't the thumb that's doing it, it is the forefinger on the opposite side.

A high hand hold has it's benefits, I might try reducing the size of the left hand paddle.
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Old 01-06-2021, 01:06 PM
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Rastoff, agreed, that thumb on safety is a good thing, but then the inside of your thumb is rubbing the moving slide.
I prefer to have my thumb lower at the same level as the forefinger on the other side.
I understand your preferences. I would never suggest that anyone change their grip before I saw them shoot. That said, I've never seen anyone shoot worse with a higher hold.

Quote:
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I can see where you right hand guys want to reduce the right side paddle, as it's not the one you use.
The safety being engaged prematurely isn't the thumb that's doing it, it is the forefinger on the opposite side.

A high hand hold has it's benefits, I might try reducing the size of the left hand paddle.
It's been my experience that it was the thumb of the shooting hand that engaged the safety inadvertently. However, that doesn't mean that it works that way for everyone.

I'm a lefty. The first time I tried the thumb on the safety I thought it was a little uncomfortable. However, it immediately improved my accuracy/groups and became comfortable over a short time.

My thumb may touch the slide very lightly, but I don't feel it and it doesn't interfere with the operation.
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Old 01-07-2021, 04:51 PM
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My Bodyguard has a 12 pound trigger pull, a firing pin safety to prevent it from firing if dropped and a dis connector to stop it from firing out of battery. From a safety standpoint, it is like carrying a J frame revolver. That little nub that they call a safety is a political solution looking for a problem. Everyone does their own thing but I would hate to have to go hunting for that button if I was in a bad situation. And forget about working it if you have wet hands or gloves.
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Old 01-07-2021, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retired2006 View Post
I prefer the safety model M&P, I own several, both full size and compact. I also modify them as they are too easy to engage/disengage, and for me as a righty, the right side safety bothers me shooting.
ALL my pistol have been modified by removing the safety assy, cutting off the right side safety, and deepening the safety detents with a round needle point file. They are all positive engaging and disengaging. I also make a custom plastic filler to fill the hole in the frame.
This works for me !
That sounds like exactly what I want, but I barely trust myself to do basic work on firearms. Cutting a safety off just seems like something Iíd screw up. If you had a video thatíd be great.
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