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01-04-2022, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkenfast
3. A MODERATE increase in power. Trying to "magnumize" it will defeat the purpose. Keep it subsonic.
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I agree. At most it should be as powerful as a 380. And even then a 95 grain, 30 caliber bullet at 900 fps would generate the same recoil as a 95 grain, 9mm bullet at 900 fps.
If the posts I read about it being a 100 grain at 1200 fps are right it would have 319 ft-lbs of energy, close to 9mm. It would still have the advantage of greater capacity but would have close to the same recoil as a 9mm.
More capacity is good and companies like Magguts stay in business increasing the capacity of magazines by a round or two. But I still think a cartridge designed for people that want less recoil makes more sense than a cartridge for those that want more capacity than 9mm can provide.
I bought a Sig P365 primarily because it is similar in size and weight to my Glock 43 but holds 4 more rounds. So I might replace my 9mm 365 for a 3version that held a few more rounds of a hot 30. But I would be much more like to buy a weaker 30 caliber version if arthritis someday makes shooting even a 9mm difficult.
ETA: I just saw the post below this one. So much for my prognostication abilities.
Last edited by Dave Lively; 01-04-2022 at 11:08 PM.
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01-04-2022, 10:54 PM
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Last edited by Telecaster; 01-04-2022 at 10:55 PM.
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01-04-2022, 11:00 PM
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$32 for a box of 50 FMJs, I’m feeling left behind.
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01-04-2022, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telecaster
$32 for a box of 50 FMJs, I’m feeling left behind.
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At those prices, it's not for plinking, that's for sure.
The Remington and Blazer Brass will hopefully be a bit cheaper.
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01-04-2022, 11:43 PM
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I doubt this silly cartridge will last as long as the 45 gap. Perhaps CZ needs to buy Smith too.
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01-04-2022, 11:53 PM
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Buy it now, put it up…and in 25 years…collectible. Anyone remember the 41ae?
Still trying to find a 9x23. Missed out on a Springfield custom for $2k, and kick myself. Then I think, really, 2k?
The 327’s are hanging on, 357sig is not as obsolete as I thought I’d be given the price, 10mm has actually gotten popular again. 41 rem mag reached cult status.
We’ll see how the marketing goes…should be fun.
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01-05-2022, 12:10 AM
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With what I said earlier aside, it IS interesting...
Seems we've all figured out that big calibers that blast away hunks of meat don't stop fights immediately. CNS hits...even with a small bullet...do. So give yourself more chances to get those CNS hits with a small, high velocity bullet that penetrates well.
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01-05-2022, 12:25 AM
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It will be interesting to see what the pressure limit is for this and if it causes problems. Getting the same power with a smaller diameter bullet requires more pressure and 9mm is pretty high in terms of pressure.
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01-05-2022, 12:33 AM
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01-05-2022, 03:30 AM
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So these appear to be a straight-walled case designed for the .30 bullet. It should look very much like a short .30 carbine case loaded to COL the same as that of a 9mm. Should do the job if you can hit with it. The old .30 Mauser was not a slouch and the hotter loaded .30 Tokarev rounds were even nastier.
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01-05-2022, 04:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImDrRichard
I honestly don't understand why manufacturers attempt to do this.
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It's because the great unwashed has yet to realize "NEW & IMPROVED" translates to "Not yet proven to be defective.". Not only have they yet to realize this perennial truth, they never will-----thereby assuring the earth will keep on spinning----around and around and around-----thereby making work for street cleaners and those who feed upon them.
Sad but true------------
Ralph Tremaine
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01-05-2022, 08:11 AM
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All around dumb move.
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01-05-2022, 08:25 AM
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There's always the foreign market; countries where they can't have guns using military cartridges.
That said ....... we had record gun sales in the US last year.... 20,000,000+
It's a big market.
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01-05-2022, 09:06 AM
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I'm still stuck on the .45ACP and now the 30 Super Carry shows up. What do I do now?
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01-05-2022, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buick
All around dumb move.
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You are underestimating how well increased capacity sells.
Look at how many people retired their Shields and Glock 43s for something like the P365. How many people add Magguts springs and/or new base plates to get a few more rounds. Or buy aftermarket magazines of questionable reliability because they hold more rounds.
This will not replace 9mm as the most popular caliber for carry. It probably will not be a common law enforcement caliber either. But like the 10mm and 380 it will have enough fans in the civilian market to survive.
And it will generate additional sales for gun makers. A large part of gun sales are due to enthusiasts that are always in search of something new and different. Even if they already own all the small 9mm pistols they want a lot of enthusiasts might buy one in this caliber exactly because it is not another small 9mm.
I still think a lower powered cartridge for recoil sensitive shooters would have made more sense. But this cartridge has a lot more appeal in the market than things like the 45 GAP.
Not all new cartridges fail. In the rifle market the 300 Blackout and 6.5 Creedmore have not overtaken the 5.56 and 308 in popularity but they sell a lot of rifles and are not going to disappear anytime soon. Despite all the "what do we need this for" and "An answer to a question nobody asked" comments I saw when they first appeared. I never saw the need to buy a 300 BO or 6.5 CM to replace or supplement my existing 5.56 and 308 rifles. And likely will not buy a gun in 30 Super. But a lot of other people will.
Last edited by Dave Lively; 01-05-2022 at 09:19 AM.
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01-05-2022, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BC38
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Given the current ammo/primer situation, I can't believe the big manufactures will usurp valuable production space to make this stuff, when they can't even get known sellers like the 38 spl and 357 on the shelves. As someone who works in the industry, I don't see us making it anytime soon, if ever. I can't wait to get to SHOT so I can chat with my buddies at Smith, Speer and any other involved suspects
Anyone here own something chambered for the .224 Valkyrie?
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Last edited by CH4; 01-05-2022 at 11:36 AM.
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01-05-2022, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diyj98
I predict the 30 Super Carry will someday be as big as the 45 GAP!
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Don't forget to add the 356 TSW.
30 super is a 100 gr bullet at 1200 fps............Hmmm!.......That about equals the .32 H&R magnum.
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01-05-2022, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CH4
Given the current ammo/primer situation, I can't believe the big manufactures will usurp valuable production space to make this stuff, when they can't even get known sellers like the 38 spl and 357 on the shelves. As someone who works in the industry, I don't see us making it anytime soon, if ever. I can't wait to get to SHOT so I can chat with my buddies at Smith, Speer and any other involved suspects
Anyone here own something chambered for the .224 Valkyrie?
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I think this new round is an attempt to capture some of that new shooter and female demographic that has grown like crazy over the last few years.
Us older guys still enjoying the revolver calibers are aging out a little.
How many of those new shooters are shooting .38s, 357s or even .45acp?
Granted there is a chicken and egg thing there because the ammo has been less available but my guess is new gun sales, primarily those to new shooters including 50% woman are not revolvers and .45acps.
This cartridge seems to be an attempt to reach those newer shooters who are not already heavily invested in other calibers.
Federal and Smith are looking at a changing of the guard and are attempting to get in front of it.
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01-05-2022, 01:24 PM
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I'm glad that they went with a .312 projectile.
It's too bad that it's tapered instead of straight-wall.
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01-05-2022, 01:35 PM
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The cartridge is 30 M1 Carbine cut really short. Neck reaming may be necessary if military brass is used. My entire post is fabricated but I am a determined reloader that avoids new factory ammunition.
My last new caliber was 40S&W because so much brass was laying on the floor.
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01-05-2022, 01:37 PM
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Guess I would need more information on the cartridge before passing judgement, but, my instincts are telling me whatever problem they think they are solving with this is something you can accomplish with an existing one and spending some time coming up with the proper load.
That being said, I suppose the problem could just be something the marketing department made up and then created a product to solve it.
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01-05-2022, 02:07 PM
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I once told a dealer friend of mine that we had too many cartridges. He jumped down my throat, and said no such thing, but how many cartridges ( good ones ) have gone by the wayside. My guess is that this will too, and you will not be able to give the guns away.
I know I could live on a 22lr, a 6mm Remington, a 270 Win, and of course a 30 cal ( 308 or 30-06 ). If you need big game, the 375H&H has killed everything on the planet, is inherently accurate, and can be loaded way down to sub caliber performance. Me, I cannot take the recoil. Who needs the other 50 calibers out there? Forgot snipers. Many of them use the 300 Win. Mag( again, too much recoil for me).
As for handguns, 22lr, 357mag 45acp, and 44 mag. Not much of a semi auto guy
Just my .02
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01-05-2022, 03:09 PM
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I'd like to see more info on this before passing judgement. So far the only benefit I see is 2 more rounds.
I started with a .380 due to compactness (Taurus TCP), moved to a 9mm when I thought .380 wasn't enough, then moved to .40 when LE moved from 9 to 40, then to .45 with the Shield 45 (which I love) but now that ammo has made improvements over the years for a defense round, I'm mostly carrying .380 again. What I'd like to see is a resurgent of the 7.65mm (.32 ACP) cartridge. After all, if it's good enough for James Bond, it should be good enough for us, right??
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01-05-2022, 03:27 PM
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I’m always happy to see another cartridge. This one looks interesting.
Nobody has to buy it, and if nobody does it will go away.
But, I think it will sell. If you spend much time in gunstores you’ve seen the tableau: Husband who knows a little but not much, counter guy who probably knows less, wife who is humoring hubby by picking out a gun she’ll shoot once. Wife picks up a few of the guns arrayed on the counter, all scary black plastic. Counter guy says: This new Super Carry holds more and kicks less! Wife says, ok cool. Hubby nods and pulls out the plastic.
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01-05-2022, 05:05 PM
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This has been a hot topic on several gun forums. It seems that somebody let the cat out of the bag a bit early. Can't say for sure, but the formal announcement of this new caliber and all the specs is expected to be at the Shot Show in a couple of weeks.
Speculation so far is that its designed for the currently popular small or pocket sized pistols. Apparently you can squeeze one or two more rounds into the same size magazine as a 9mm. My real interest is how's the recoil? If its more comfortable to shoot than a standard 9mm or a blowback .380, I can see a market with women, elderly or disabled people.
But for now, its all just guesswork.
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01-05-2022, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telecaster
This cartridge might be fun in a carbine.
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There is already a .30 that works pretty well in a carbine - or a Ruger Blackhawk...
It's called the .30 carbine.
John
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01-05-2022, 05:32 PM
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Next from S&W is an 8 shot .30 Super Carry J frame that takes moon clips.
: )
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01-05-2022, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clang444
Next from S&W is an 8 shot .30 Super Carry J frame that takes moon clips.
: )
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In a j frame, it'd have to be a 6 shot, but stranger things have happened.
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01-05-2022, 06:55 PM
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The decades are littered with "new" cartridge flops. This one looks like a thinned out 38 Super. That particular cartridge doesn't get the respect it deserves; with the correct bullet it's a good self defense choice. It and it's more powerful brother, 9 x 23, have more modest recoil than expected while producing substantial velocity.
We will see where this one goes. As others have mentioned, we are still looking for ammo on the shelves for calibers other than the mainline ones.
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01-05-2022, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PALADIN85020
There is already a .30 that works pretty well in a carbine - or a Ruger Blackhawk...
It's called the .30 carbine.
John
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Folks that have shot this particular cartridge/gun combo can tell you it's LOUD. Cartridge is loaded with powder much more suited for its use in a long gun.
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01-05-2022, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkenfast
4. Quality. If S&W can't deliver a gun that works out-of-the-box for people who don't shoot that much, there's no point.
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The EZ models have actually had some issues in this regard.
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01-05-2022, 08:05 PM
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They’ll do this but they won’t make a 6 shot 327 J frame or any frame.
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01-05-2022, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jurek
I'm hoping S&W did research before making this pistol. Otherwise why would they make pistol chambered with twice more expensive ammo than 9mm. .......... snip.....
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Not sure who they would ask, maybe their largest fan base and cheer leaders, maybe pose it to the largest most successful on-line forum dedicated to their products, old and new?????
Sorry, was just hoping out loud, naaaaahhhhhh that wouldn't happen.
I'm guessing there's not a single person here that knew about it prior to the other outlets hawking the new round & pistol.
Lastly, and for heaven's sake, why on the EZ platform...... Uck.......
Sorry folks, just trying to muster up some kind of an opinion......
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01-05-2022, 08:13 PM
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I am too old to pretend that I understand the strategy, but somebody important must like it.
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01-05-2022, 08:42 PM
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Not certain of all the details but using the weight of a CSX as 19.5 ounces and assuming 4.0gr of powder in a 9x19 with a 124gr bullet at 1150 fps, the recoil works out to 6.78 ft-lbs. If you want to neglect the powder charge, the recoil is 5.29 ft-lbs.
Using 3.0gr in a 30 SAuper, with a 100gr bullet at 1250 fps in the same weight gun, the recoil comes to 5.04 ft-lbs. Neglecting the powder, it's 4.07 ft-lbs.
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01-05-2022, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmithNut
Not sure who they would ask, maybe their largest fan base and cheer leaders, maybe pose it to the largest most successful on-line forum dedicated to their products, old and new?????
Sorry, was just hoping out loud, naaaaahhhhhh that wouldn't happen.
I'm guessing there's not a single person here that knew about it prior to the other outlets hawking the new round & pistol.
Lastly, and for heaven's sake, why on the EZ platform...... Uck.......
Sorry folks, just trying to muster up some kind of an opinion......
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I think the new round is targeted at the same demographic as the Shield EZ.
New shooters, petite females and shooters with physical issues.
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01-05-2022, 09:41 PM
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They are also introducing a non EZ gun in this caliber.
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01-05-2022, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryS
They are also introducing a non EZ gun in this caliber.
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Good point. The Shield Plus.
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01-06-2022, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malph
I think the new round is targeted at the same demographic as the Shield EZ.
New shooters, petite females and shooters with physical issues.
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If the 100 grain bullet at 1200 fps specs are right this will be pretty close to 9mm in terms of power. Which means its also going to be fairly close in terms of recoil. Somewhat less than a standard pressure 9mm but more than a 380.
To get that much power with a less diameter its going to have to be loaded to very high pressures so its likely to have a lot of muzzle blast which even with ear protection can also add to the impression of more recoil. Since this cartridge's lastname is "Carry" hopefully it will use heavy for caliber bullets with fast powder which will both optimize performance in short barrels and mitigate muzzle blast.
A heavy bullet seated deep in a 9mm length case also means reloaders are going to have to be extra, extra careful. Relatively small mistakes in seating depths could spike pressure in what will be a very high pressure cartridge to start with.
Last edited by Dave Lively; 01-06-2022 at 09:24 AM.
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01-06-2022, 08:52 AM
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Latest & greatest? The 38 Super's been around since the 1930's. I doubt this new wunderkind can do anything better, and the ammo's already available.
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01-06-2022, 10:14 AM
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something to think about, when you make a new cartridge like this, you don't have to consider the old pistols chambered for it and that way you are not constrained by them. With .380 or .32 there are guns that were made for those cartridges that may not be safe to fire with pressures that a a stronger modern gun can. Think .38 spl and .357 mag.
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01-06-2022, 01:30 PM
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This is nothing more than an attempt to cash in on the current personal defense mania by Vista and S&W. Vista can't produce most standard calibers now and adding another soon to be obsolete one benefits no one but them. The 356 TSW was mentioned but does anyone remember the 9mm Federal that was designed as a rimmed version of the 9mm Luger for the Charter Arms "Pitbull". It didn't last very long because it would also chamber in a top break 38 S&W revolvers from the late 1800's.
Marksmanship is no longer required just more magazine capacity, pitiful.
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01-06-2022, 01:32 PM
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Might be a good caliber for SCCY. I wrote them once to see if they might be interested in making barrels for their 9mm guns chambered in .30 Luger. They weren't. I still think that's a good idea.
Last edited by DWalt; 01-06-2022 at 01:38 PM.
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01-06-2022, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yorkie Man
does anyone remember the 9mm Federal that was designed as a rimmed version of the 9mm Luger for the Charter Arms "Pitbull". It didn't last very long because it would also chamber in a top break 38 S&W revolvers from the late 1800's.
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I remember it well. And it would chamber in a .38 S&W revolver. Essentially a .38 S&W Magnum. I believe that there were indeed several old .38 S&W top breaks that blew up as the result of using the 9mm Federal ammunition in them. Last time I saw any ammo was about 5 years ago at a gun show. A guy had five boxes, he wanted $100/box.
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01-06-2022, 01:53 PM
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01-06-2022, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donn
Latest & greatest? The 38 Super's been around since the 1930's. I doubt this new wunderkind can do anything better, and the ammo's already available.
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This round can fit into small guns and increase their capacity by 20% or more compared to 9mm. The 38 super can do neither.
Its too long to fit into 9mm frame guns and is the same diameter as 9mm.
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01-06-2022, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minconrevo
Folks that have shot this particular cartridge/gun combo can tell you it's LOUD. Cartridge is loaded with powder much more suited for its use in a long gun.
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Unless you hand load with pistol powders, you get lots of flash and waste. The same with some of the other rifle cartridges shot in the various TC single shots.
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01-06-2022, 03:05 PM
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I'm already seeing some gun writers talking about the great new cartridge. Of course advertising dollars and discounted or free products often lead to glowing reviews.
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01-06-2022, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diyj98
I'm already seeing some gun writers talking about the great new cartridge. Of course advertising dollars and discounted or free products often lead to glowing reviews.
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Federal has it on their website too:
30 Super Carry
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01-06-2022, 03:31 PM
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Wow, a .32acp magnum. That should be as popular as the Winchester 9mm magnum or Winchester .45 magnum, the cartridges for the ever popular Wildey. As usual, go on ahead without me, I'll try to catch up later. Joe
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