I have a one strike yer out rule with all my stuff. Life is too short for cheap duct tape or dealing with insolence from machines. 4th and long - punt.

Sorry. Read the first few pages, then skipped to the last. Missed the replacement.
And you are right. 2 lemons by one owner is ridiculous.

Two back-to-back, malf-ing Lemons signals a design defect, although arguably it could be isolated to a small but critical part ... Like maybe the mag release mechanism, in combination with being undersprung for shooting “real” 10mm factory ammo.

If S&W refunds you, I’d considering putting the money toward either the new Sig 10mm P320 or possibly one of Grand Power’s 10mm pistols, the P40 (4.25”) or the P40L (5”).

I'm intrigued by the 320, but also hesitant be an early adopter again. I already took one for the team, it's someone else's turn :-)

Wasn't the 320 the one that had the recall issues with it going off if dropped wrong? Not sure I would want to give that one a shot with a 10mm platform. But who knows.

Rosewood

This sucks, sorry about you being at the wrong end of a not ready for production pistol purchase.
As I mentioned above, I've read of too many new to market 10mm pistols with issues.
I have a Springfield Armory XD-M 10mm that has been good. Should S&W refund you, and they should, consider one of those
.

What really sucks is no replacement spring for 4" and 4.25" guns of any caliber M&P by Wolff. Only the 4.6" versions for some reason.

I'll shoot mine till it fails since I bought it to plink with light loads off the back deck here at the house. It's not a big deal for me, if I had known of the problem(s) I still would have bought one. For others here I'm sorry for your frustration, poor service and monetary loss.

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Cranky Old Retired USN Guy

Worth a shot. You can always cut off a coil or 2.

One thing that puzzles me is the frame flex theory, in that the M&P 2.0 line has a steel chassis that pretty much runs the length of the frame, supposedly to minimize flexing.
Yet a Glock 20, 29 or 40 has nothing of the sort and is the gold standard for reliability. Glock brags about the flex, saying it leads to softer recoil.
Apples to oranges comparison or time to abandon the flex argument?

I suspect flex is a marketing gimmick.

The S/A is a GREAT gun

Glock also.

They are both proven.

The Glock is a proven pistol. It is also proven that it's 22° grip angle and I are not compatible.

Some people just can't get on board with that, and I get it!

Then the S/A with a grip angle like a 1911.... perfect! ( for me anyway)

The 22° grip angle is fine for me on a .22 pistol, just not on larger caliber pistols. Not logical at all.
The only guess I can come up with is with a .22 I'm okay taking the time to aim each shot and on a potential self-defense gun I want an accurate point and shoot piece. Dunno.

I tried some 180gr LTC/Poly over 5.1gr of W231 and 180gr LTC/Poly over 5.1gr of unknown powder (due to smudged ink and the difference in gun is astounding. It was hard to hold on to with unknown powder. Currently best guess is W244, but I will check tonight or tomorrow. Also, the cases dropped about 8' to 10' from me not 25 or more out.

With the unknown powder the gun was loud like a hot load and out of 30 rounds I had 6, IIRC that failed to feed but I had not slapped the back mag on hand as I usually do after loading a mag. After slapping the backs I had no more failure to feed.

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Cranky Old Retired USN Guy

Sorry the OP had to go through all the mess...... - I'd be in worse humor than him.

Makes me a little more OK with my only 10mm's - my prior-duty M1076, boringly reliable with every level of 10mm load and a Colt Delta Elite SS with Novak adjustable sights - also has been surprisingly reliable, considering it's pretty heavily sprung and has a Wilson Shok-Buff in it. Still works OK with the 10mm LITE as well as hunting loads.

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Ret'd LEO
SWCA #2275

I really hope S&W steps up for the OP.

At a certain point maybe consider trying a heavier recoil spring if it looks like S&W are going to drag their feet.

Pistol is on its way back to S&W for a refund. I'll summarize everything in a final write up, but here's the bottom line:

-The magazine drop malfunction happened consistently with three different types of ammunition.
-It happened with three different shooters, all of whom are firearms instructors.
-It happened with 10--yes, 10--different magazines.
-It happened with two different M&P 10mm pistols: the original that I purchased and one that was sent to me as a replacement, in exchange for the first.
-All of the above is well-documented with video.
-Numerous other users have reported the same issue. Links to some reports can be found in this thread.

Given all this, I think it's clear that there is a design defect in the M&P 10mm pistols that makes them an inadequate platform for full-power 10mm ammunition. As a huge M&P fan, this is very disappointing, but I don't think there's any other reasonable conclusion to be drawn here. It seems highly improbable that I just happened to get *two* dud pistols that malfunction consistently and in precisely the same manner.

S&W has yet to acknowledge this defect. I hope they will. It's also possible that they will quietly revise the design--stronger mag catch? heavier recoil spring?--without acknowledging the problem publicly, but I hope they will be transparent.

I wouldn't count on transparency. S&W seems about as eager to address concerns as Bill Belichick.
SIG had issues with the P365 for a few months and just did what needed to be done. Quietly.

Thanks for the thread. Thanks for putting up with all the b.s.

I'm shopping 10mm handguns. In fact, I know where two Smith's are right now. Looked at 'em today. I ain't buyin' either of them.

Unreliable dogs don’t sell well in 10mm-Landia.

Then we find video's of guys that find the fix and have no mag related issues . Just recoil springs . Glock20 ismi springs . I've been running them for years now in a m&p core shooting 9mm major loads and have change to heavier ism springs in a m&p 4" compact 4.35 40 and 5" 2.0 as there all under sprung for hot loads . Plenty of room to compress a longer flat wire spring in the compact 4" 10mm . Just try heavier ISMI recoil springs . If you won't try thats your fault . The pistol was not designed to shoot extra hot non-saami ammo with our some help . Funny tread common sense is gone from some folks here .
Heres real owners that figure it out .

24lb glock 20 spring

20lb spring
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikRJ...key%27sOpinion

https://www.gunsprings.com/GLOCK%20%...ID5/dID116#109


Thanks for sharing!

Every single round I fired, and every single round that induced the mag drop, was SAAMI-spec.

It's not my job to attempt to compensate for flaws in S&W's design and/or manufacturing with aftermarket parts that may or may not actually solve the problem.

Looking forward to trying the Sig.

mark mark mark More excuses and whine from you . Glad your finally moving on to anything else so guys that buy the m&p 10mm can get on with enjoying them . Hope Sig has chamber are in spec . Blow or deformed brass has been a 9mm issue with sig for a year or two . So your movie from a 4" to a 5" 33oz pistol that 5.6": tall too . Yea , that makes since . Ha Bye Bye

Besure your buying Flat wire springs, not round wire ! Thats why I mentioned ISMI . Guys shooting idpa with 9mm and no power level are loading softball loads and running 13lb or less springs .

Have you ever ordered from here?


Welcome to B&B Enterprise Jacksonville, FL

4.6" to 5", actually. And I'm actually a fan of the additional barrel length, so that's a plus.

But that's neither here nor there.

I've been entirely respectful to everyone--including S&W personnel--throughout this process, and I've been careful to document everything, test thoroughly and with all due diligence, etc. I've been as clear as I can possibly be when explaining things in writing, despite the fact that what I write is not always read carefully.

Your antipathy toward me is very bizarre and unnecessary. I'm an adult -- I'll survive. Still, I hope you'll treat the next guy who has a bad experience with more respect than you've shown me.

You've had quite an unfortunate experience and I don't blame you at all for the attitude that the pistol should work correctly right out of the box. It seems like the frame might be flexing under top end loads and a heavier recoil spring could be the work-around. Even then, I wonder what 5K rounds would do to a gun equipped with the heavier recoil spring?

For me , when I finally scratch that 10mm itch, it'll be a metal framed gun. Polymer may have met it's match with full house 10mm.

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Just Say No - To Social Media

Was this ever resolved?

For the OP, yes, the second gun went back for a refund.

Problem with M&P 10mm + Customer Service Nightmare

Have S&W been able to fix it? No.

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Release the Kraken

I just got my money back this past week. I'm planning to do a more comprehensive write-up about my experience soon.

Only problem I've had with my M&P 10mm has been with brass thrown 18' to 20' to right rear on about a 45 degree angle from me. I a first thought it was due to weak recoil spring. But having the same result for case travel even with loads down light to almost not working the slide. So that means only one thing and that's the ejector is the cause. I would like to put a trigger pull gage to the slide and just see what the gage reads, but I have no trigger gage and I ain't buying one either.

As for magazine it's excellent design and functions 100% of the time except when I fail to tap magazine back on my palm or on the deck rail.

I would not carry this size and weight of gun in 10mm except as a woods emergency gun and even then, I would rather have my 1911 Dan Wesson RZ10 with 22lb hammer and recoil springs. It's easy to shoot with no God-awful recoil and accurate like a match gun. I like the other M&P's we have but this one I not sure of as yet. I bought to carry in car, but the old CZ 75 CS 9mm will say put with Underwood solid copper bullets for now.

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Cranky Old Retired USN Guy

Thanks for keeping us posted.

Very discouraging. It seems as if most, if not all, of S&W's M&P polymer models have had problems with mags ejecting during firing, if the posts and threads on this site are to be believed. Such a pistol does not inspire confidence.

Most of the M&P line has had problems with mags ejecting? This 10mm post by @mark_lives_things was the 1st I've heard of this happening.

I don't know if it's "most," but there are definitely a lot of people experiencing the same problem. There are a few others who I've mentioned in this thread, many others I've come across later on. In addition to those I've noted in this thread, look at the comments on the first video and the content of the second video here:

Major Problems with Smith & Wesson M&P 10mm's - YouTube

*�* BETA TESTING Smith and Wesson M&P 4" 10mm? | David W.'s PERSONAL experience 🎙 👎 Not Sig XTen - YouTube

Oh yea I'm aware of the 10mm issues, but i was referring to the M&P 2.0 9mm variants. Thanks for the links.

I believe this issue is only with 10mm pistols, none of the other variants have had reports of mag ejection.

Rosewood

Thanks!



I'll be trying some Underwood 220gr hard cast & 200gr XTP in my 4" M&P 2.0 10mm on Friday, crossing my fingers.

Wouldn’t run reliably in mine. Last 4-5 rds in the mag would have repeated fees failures. Hope you have better luck.


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I'll post Friday evening how things went, do you still have the M&P?

No sir. Bought it as a woods gun for bears. It wouldn’t run the hot loads I needed, so I dumped it and went with something else. Shame; I loved everything about it (except the reliability).


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IF I have the same issue I'll trade it in for a Gen4 Glock 20.

I will stick with my P16-10mm. Steel frames don't flex.

Yes, sorry, I was referring to 10mm guns only. My other M&Ps have been outstanding and I'm not aware of any significant systemic problems with those product lines.

Which is exactly what I did. Zero issues there.


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The very first M&P 9mm pistols used to self eject the mag for no reason I could ever fathom. It happened to me with a brand new range rental.

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Release the Kraken

Lots of videos with issues for the 10mm. I have four 9mm and they have been flawless but it seems the 10mm has issues.


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Shot 100 rounds this morning, 50 with 5.1g of W 231 and another 50 with 5.6g of W 244 with 180g LPC TC by MO Bullet Co over both loads. The bullets went where red dot was pointed all ejected to same area as the 180's over 4.6g W244 of earlier.

I still think this 4" model is too light weight for 10mm ammo because of too much recoil for most people that aren't looking for a very hard recoiling gun.

But with soft loads this gun has become a hoot to shoot and all the brass lands behind me on the deck, not out in the grassy yard where the 1911 sends them.

The magazines have more space in them length wise and are wider at the mouth the 1911's so the super wide mouth HP bullets work freely in the magazine that otherwise won't in 1911 magazine.

With about 500 rounds through the gun, it has been 100% when I slapped the back of the mag after loading like I was taught so many years ago. I guess I'll clean it today since it's been 400 rounds since cleaned.

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Cranky Old Retired USN Guy