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  #1  
Old 06-29-2022, 06:17 PM
ogso ogso is offline
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This may be more specific for me being from Cali but the Shield we can get has a magazine disconnect. HATE IT HATE IT HATE IT. Bought replacement parts for remove the disconnect BUT was hesitant only because its my carry gun. My old primary was a G43 which had changed lots of items but I would like to change the Shield to suit me better. Any thoughts and/or legal ramifications. Thanks in advance.
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Old 06-29-2022, 06:57 PM
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You need to check with your IA (likely the county sheriff’s office) to see what mods they allow (or disallow).
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Old 06-29-2022, 06:57 PM
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You'll need to research state laws (if any), and perhaps get legal advice. Yours would be one of the states in which I would hate to be the test case in court if you used a "modified" gun, even in a legitimate defense situation.
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Old 06-29-2022, 08:18 PM
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I know nothing about CA law, but in any case, I would not modify your Shield. Even if removing it is not prohibited, have you considered there is always the chance it just might save your life? My own admittedly unsolicited opinion is that magazine disconnects can just as easily be a positive as a negative in a defensive pistol. I think I would just go back to your Glock if you can’t abide the mag safety.
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Old 06-29-2022, 08:34 PM
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Prison isn’t a nice place. If the disconnect is law I would leave it on place.


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Old 06-29-2022, 08:42 PM
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I have taught both NRA and State-sponsored pistol classes in several states (NOT CA), and there is a standard answer for anyone who asks this type of question:
First, you must read and understand the laws on handguns in YOUR state. (If you were taking a class in my state, I would help you find the appropriate section of the law, if any.) I would not interpret or paraphrase the law for you, as I have no authority, and presumably your law is in English. If you do not understand your law after you read it, you can hire a lawyer of your choice to advise you. In the event you are taken before a judge, "but some guy said" carries zero weight..... Even "some guy on the internet!"
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Old 06-29-2022, 09:22 PM
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That which is required in order for a product to be sold is not necessarily required to be in place. Moving would probably be as simple as getting an answer to a simple question...?

Have not heard of any laws (regulations, rules, etc.) prohibiting "modifications" (other than possibly a conversion to "fully automatic"!), but if there was anywhere where it would be likely it would certainly be in the People's Socialist Republic of...
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Old 06-30-2022, 12:02 AM
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I live in CA and the county sheriff prohibits mods except changing grips or sights.

A sensible policy IMO.
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Old 06-30-2022, 05:10 AM
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Considering how a few days ago two yoots in California were released on their OR even though they were caught with 150,000 fentanyl pills, I wouldn’t worry about it. It seems to stay locked up in California, you have to commit a really serious crime. GARY.
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Old 06-30-2022, 07:13 AM
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Considering how a few days ago two yoots in California were released on their OR even though they were caught with 150,000 fentanyl pills, I wouldn’t worry about it. It seems to stay locked up in California, you have to commit a really serious crime. GARY.
You don't understand, exercising constitutional rights are a serious crime there.
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Old 06-30-2022, 07:14 AM
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I live in CA and the county sheriff prohibits mods except changing grips or sights.

A sensible policy IMO.
Crazy that a sheriff gets to make the law. I don't see that provision in the Constitution.
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Old 06-30-2022, 09:43 PM
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I live in CA and the county sheriff prohibits mods except changing grips or sights.

A sensible policy IMO.
I would ignore him, and all his ilk! Who designated him as Dictator?

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Old 07-01-2022, 12:06 AM
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Sitting in Idaho, I laugh.
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Old 07-01-2022, 02:37 AM
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I live in CA and the county sheriff prohibits mods except changing grips or sights.

A sensible policy IMO.
That's the most idiotic policy I've ever heard of. Do you work for the sheriff? If not, it's none of his business what you do with your personal property.

But, it's Kalifornia. You deserve each other.

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Old 07-01-2022, 10:39 AM
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I live in CA and the county sheriff prohibits mods except changing grips or sights.

A sensible policy IMO.
How is that a sensible policy ?

Seriously, I’d like to be enlightened, because on its face, that needlessly restrictive policy appears to be nothing other than a baseless and absurd infringement.
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Old 07-01-2022, 02:47 PM
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I expect the Sheriff in post #8 was advised by the County Attorney/Liability Carrier that authorizing other modifications created a liability issue if he authorized a firearm that did not meet manufacturers specifications.

I can understand some of the opinions about what's your personal property. However, from the tone of some, they've never worked for an entity whose policy was "You will carry what we issue as we issue it-approved grip/stocks changes excepted." Now you might not be able to shoot the eyelashes off a gnat at 25 yards with a stock gun, but it's certainly suitable for self defense after a suitable break in period.

FWIW, I lugged around magazine disconnector/safety equipped service sidearms for over 20 years. Never really understood the fuss about them. Yes, I've heard all the mythical reasons to delete them.

Last edited by WR Moore; 07-20-2022 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 07-01-2022, 07:41 PM
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I wouldn’t take a chance in commifornia. From what we hear in the free world anything goes there unless it has to do with firearms.
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Old 07-01-2022, 11:27 PM
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Sitting in Florida, I not only laugh but greatly appreciate that many years ago I moved South rather than West.
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Old 07-01-2022, 11:57 PM
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Always know that if per chance you find yourself sitting in civil court being sued for a million or two in a use of deadly force case, slime ball attorneys will cross examine U about any alterations you made or had made, ie, sights, grips, type of ammo, ad infinitum with the intention of making you into Lee Harvey Oswald before a jury.
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Old 07-01-2022, 11:59 PM
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I'd consult an attorney that has some knowledge in that area. I generally scoff at the people who poo poo the idea of modifying a pistol as potential prosecution fodder, and I don't know, any Cali provision making it illegal, but man if I was in that position I'd drop the couple hundred on some actual legal advice, or just leave it alone.
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Old 07-02-2022, 12:10 AM
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Sitting in Idaho, I laugh.

I’m in Idaho laughing with you.
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Old 07-02-2022, 12:16 AM
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I respectfully suggest that diddling with ANYTHING that is remotely considered to be a safety, especially in the formerly great state of California, is not a really great idea. It would just make it that much easier for an attorney or an anti-gun DA to try to make you out as a dangerous psycho to a jury. It SHOULDN'T matter, but I would not bet that it would not. You are potentially betting a lot on the question, like your freedom and everything you own.
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Old 07-02-2022, 12:22 PM
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Great discussion, thank you. I think I will consult with a gun friendly attorney but I'm getting the feeling I should just leave it alone. Thanks again for the discussion.
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Old 07-03-2022, 01:57 PM
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California has the most gun regulations and the second-least per capita gun deaths. I have always thought that fact was interesting.

And no state has the capacity to put a first offender in jail for defeating a gun safety feature. An auto conversion will earn you some jail time. Not this.
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Old 07-12-2022, 01:48 PM
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California has the most gun regulations and the second-least per capita gun deaths. I have always thought that fact was interesting.

And no state has the capacity to put a first offender in jail for defeating a gun safety feature. An auto conversion will earn you some jail time. Not this.

california is a kleptocracy. crime pays, literally, for the entire legal system, the politicians and legislators who sit in the capital. it is in their interest to keep crime rates, especially the most onerous types of crimes, murder, rape, assault, robbery, etc high, as fear and emotion are what drives the most idiotic voting habits of the democrats. it's how they justify their bloated staff and their salaries. they don't care about people, gun regulations are never about safety or "common sense", it's about retaining power over the people, retaining a cushy life long kick back ridden political career, and keeping citizens dependent on the state. californian democrats and their soros appointed cousins in other stated, have stated unequivocally, through both their actions and failed yet unchanged policies, as well as candid quotes like that of the waukesha da after the parade rampage, that they will continue to release violent felons to the streets because it is "part of the approach"(of useful idiots enriching the elite through adoption of socialist progressive policies), and they do this while fully acknowledging that it will lead to injuries and deaths.


in fact, they guarantee it:



Waukesha DA ‘Guaranteed’ His Policy Would Kill Someone Someday, And It Did - Mish Talk - Global Economic Trend Analysis
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Old 07-12-2022, 03:32 PM
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Check with your lawyer. Generally, if the gun is altered in any way or you are using anything other than factory ammunition, be prepared for legal problems either by the DA or the other guy’s lawyer.
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Old 07-17-2022, 01:13 AM
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ive seen results of some people that think they are gunsmiths piddling with their firearms then having negligent discharges noone was hurt thankfully but when youre in front of a jury pool of piers that might know nothing of firearms and a DA and judge the same that just hears the phrase you altered your weapon to kill people easier or faster it might just be a thing you regretfor a lotof years. not that i agree with the ignorance of judges or DAs but its better to not modify until laws change in my opinion free is better than carrying a modified gun
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Old 07-19-2022, 09:48 PM
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If you can articulate that modifications make the pistol easier to operate, safer, less likely to fail in a stress filled event, or arguments along this line, one would think common sense would side with you. In this litigious and anti-gun atmosphere, who knows. That said, I carry a Shield 9MM and i put an Apex Duty Kit in it. Really cleaned up the trigger. I live in Tennessee.
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Old 07-20-2022, 09:20 AM
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If you do not understand your law after you read it, you can hire a lawyer of your choice to advise you. In the event you are taken before a judge, "but some guy said" carries zero weight..... Even "some guy on the internet!"
The judge may also tell you that what you were advised by your attorney carries zero weight, if his advice was incorrect.

Choose your attorney wisely. I learned through personal experience (child custody case) that a lawyer telling you that she has experience with and knows how to handle your case is the same as the corner used car salesman telling you the car you are looking at "runs like a top". Sadly, they get paid regardless.
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Old 07-20-2022, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal44 View Post
I live in CA and the county sheriff prohibits mods except changing grips or sights.

A sensible policy IMO.
That makes zero sense. So it’s illegal to refinish a firearm, switch to a different barrel, add porting, smooth the action, or anything else? He sounds like a nut.
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Old 07-20-2022, 09:40 AM
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I don't like the government fiat but gee, my usual hideout gun has better grips and sights, nothing more.
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Old 07-20-2022, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jschmidt View Post
California has the most gun regulations and the second-least per capita gun deaths. I have always thought that fact was interesting.

And no state has the capacity to put a first offender in jail for defeating a gun safety feature. An auto conversion will earn you some jail time. Not this.
KAMALA shoved them through when she ran the state!
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Old 07-20-2022, 10:02 AM
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I plan to distract the authorities from any mods on my guns by using dangerous man-killing reloaded ammunition.
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Old 07-25-2022, 12:35 PM
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This may be more specific for me being from Cali but the Shield we can get has a magazine disconnect. HaTE IT HaTE IT HaTE IT. Bought replacement parts for remove the disconnect BUT was hesitant only because its my carry gun. My old primary was a G43 which had changed lots of items but I would like to change the Shield to suit me better. any thoughts and/or legal ramifications. Thanks in advance.
Late to the thread but I recommend you take your question over to the Calguns Forum. Not only are the members in the same state as you, there are several lawyers and experts on there who have litigated these very issues in front of Ca courts.
My own personal opinion (based on zero expertise) is that you never defeat any safety device on a carry weapon. It's not just self-defense shootings you need to worry about. In the event of a negligent discharge, you will likely be prosecuted. Your removal of a safety device could weigh heavily against you in court.
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Old 07-25-2022, 02:12 PM
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If the OP knew the Shield had the magazine disconnect feature and he didn't like that feature why did he purchase it? Were there other pistols available that did not have the device? My preference when buying anything is to have it meet my needs new out of the box with no modifications required.
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Old 07-25-2022, 02:35 PM
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I would say a modifier and his freedom are soon parted.

You use a weapon modified from the factory, you may be cleared by the DA on criminal charges, but you gotta remember, these days wrongful deaths are soon followed by lawsuits, and the burden of proof in a civil battle is less than a criminal court. But, even should you win, your most likely looking at hefty defense fees.

It's safer when the lawyer for the dead family member can't say anything about your stock factory weapon, but I'm sure he could spin a disabled safety feature into a pretty good commission.
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Old 07-25-2022, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by majick47 View Post
If the OP knew the Shield had the magazine disconnect feature and he didn't like that feature why did he purchase it?
Because that model is the only option in his state.
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  #38  
Old 07-25-2022, 03:07 PM
ken158 ken158 is offline
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Originally Posted by diyj98 View Post
That makes zero sense. So it’s illegal to refinish a firearm, switch to a different barrel, add porting, smooth the action, or anything else? He sounds like a nut.
I dare say the country sheriff would know an altered gun if he had it in his hand. Wonder what he would say to a guy that ripped the tag off his mattress?
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Old 07-25-2022, 04:59 PM
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So, if I am in a car accident with tires that are not the factory issued tires, am I in trouble? What will the DA say about THAT?

Randy
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  #40  
Old 07-25-2022, 05:10 PM
smithra_66 smithra_66 is offline
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Originally Posted by Cal44 View Post
I live in CA and the county sheriff prohibits mods except changing grips or sights.

A sensible policy IMO.
Sad you feel that is sensible.
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  #41  
Old 07-25-2022, 05:12 PM
Paul in Nevada Paul in Nevada is offline
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Originally Posted by growr View Post
So, if I am in a car accident with tires that are not the factory issued tires, am I in trouble?
Randy
It's quite possible. If it can be argued that you modified your vehicle in such a way that it becomes a safety hazard, then yes.
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Old 07-25-2022, 05:51 PM
squidsix squidsix is offline
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Wow some of you guys. You are seeking permission for things for which permission is not required, thus providing your opposition the option of saying “no”.
I remove magazine disconnects. All of them. They interfere with the procedures I was trained in for safely checking the function of a weapon before placing it in operation. I challenge anyone to point to a case where someone in an otherwise clean shoot was convicted of wrongdoing based on the removal of a magazine disconnect. Many of you will wisely recommend dry fire practice with one’s weapon to become more proficient. Is it your position that you should do so with a magazine inserted? Which one of us is doing the unsafe thing?
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  #43  
Old 07-25-2022, 05:57 PM
Oldsalt66 Oldsalt66 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sousana View Post
I would say a modifier and his freedom are soon parted.

You use a weapon modified from the factory, you may be cleared by the DA on criminal charges, but you gotta remember, these days wrongful deaths are soon followed by lawsuits, and the burden of proof in a civil battle is less than a criminal court. But, even should you win, your most likely looking at hefty defense fees.

It's safer when the lawyer for the dead family member can't say anything about your stock factory weapon, but I'm sure he could spin a disabled safety feature into a pretty good commission.
Not in Florida, where a shooting is either legally justifiable or not based on the circumstances under which deadly force is applied in a given situation.

The modified or unmodified condition of the firearm is not a factor.

If a self defense shooting is legally justified, the criminal assailant or home invader and/or his family, cannot sue for civil damages here.

Last edited by Oldsalt66; 07-25-2022 at 06:00 PM.
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  #44  
Old 07-25-2022, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squidsix View Post
Wow some of you guys. You are seeking permission for things for which permission is not required, thus providing your opposition the option of saying “no”.
I remove magazine disconnects. All of them. They interfere with the procedures I was trained in for safely checking the function of a weapon before placing it in operation. I challenge anyone to point to a case where someone in an otherwise clean shoot was convicted of wrongdoing based on the removal of a magazine disconnect. Many of you will wisely recommend dry fire practice with one’s weapon to become more proficient. Is it your position that you should do so with a magazine inserted? Which one of us is doing the unsafe thing?
Whether or not a particular issue has been litigated in the past is not relevant. The very important point that other forum members have mentioned, and is worth repeating is, you do not want to be the first test case.
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  #45  
Old 07-25-2022, 07:29 PM
rincar rincar is offline
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Personally, I leave all my Carry guns bone stock no with modifications except Night Sights.
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  #46  
Old 07-25-2022, 07:54 PM
squidsix squidsix is offline
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Originally Posted by rincar View Post
Personally, I leave all my Carry guns bone stock no with modifications except Night Sights.
Then you are carrying a modified pistol. If I am, you are. Slippery argument there.
My defense is and always has been: I use the very best tools that I can afford. Guns are no different.
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Old 07-25-2022, 08:27 PM
RufusG RufusG is offline
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Personally, I leave all my Carry guns bone stock no with modifications except Night Sights.
Will you please tell the jury, sir, why you chose to stalk your prey at night?
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  #48  
Old 07-25-2022, 09:18 PM
Paul in Nevada Paul in Nevada is offline
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This forum has stickied threads on this very subject by experts such as Massad Ayoob. The takeaway is this: Imagine you are brought up in front of a jury made up of people who know nothing about guns, by an anti-gun prosecutor intent on nailing your hide to the wall. The DA is going to hire an expert who will examine your gun in depth and present his findings in court. Now ask yourself this: Is anyone going to care that you installed night sights on your gun? Night sights are probably a factory option on your pistol. It's also a common convenience modification that does not change the lethality or safety of the firearm. It doesn't present you as reckless or bloodthirsty to a jury.
I want you to understand that ND's really are prosecuted in this country, even when no one is hurt. The magazine safety might not even be a factor in the ND but the modification could still be used to paint you as irresponsible or reckless to a jury. No one is going to care about your wood stocks or night sights.
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  #49  
Old 07-25-2022, 10:46 PM
rosewood rosewood is offline
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Originally Posted by RufusG View Post
Will you please tell the jury, sir, why you chose to stalk your prey at night?
No sir, I am concerned with the predators stalking me at night.
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  #50  
Old 07-25-2022, 10:49 PM
Mike, SC Hunter Mike, SC Hunter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dla View Post
Sitting in Idaho, I laugh.
Sitting in SC.....I laugh to.......Our sheriff has no legal say about anything I own or modify or sell or give away.........I'm GLAD commiforina is WAY on the left coast.
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