I had a couple of different Smith auto-pistols over the years but the 4516 just really "worked" for me......still not sure why I ever sold it? Probably found some other "tacti-cool" thing I had to have.

I have an M&P9c and if I limpwrist the gun, you can get a situation where the gun short cycles and doesn't kick out the empty and jams up.
The slide is slightly lighter on the compact and this may have something to do with it.

S&W recently won the BATFE contract, beating out Glock and Sig. Sig filed a protest when they got kicked out for a lack of reliability and some of the paperwork may shed light on the NYPD situation.

The BATFE testing involved both full size and compact models (the agents get one of each). A portion of Sigs protest (after they whined about an excessive emphasis upon reliability) dealt with perceived remedial actions allowed to S&W. BATFE countered, noting that a compact weapon experienced a number of malfunctions, but that the tester self diagnosed the cause as shooter induced and requested that the backstrap be changed on her weapon. When that was done by the test proctor, malfunctions ceased. Since that was an adjustment to suit the weapon to the shooter (required part of the weapons specification) rather than actual mechanical adjustment to the weapon, that was within the testing protocol.

Perhaps that's the issue with NYPD, as noted by some earlier, thumbs in the wrong place, which backstrap changes can correct (sometimes-others the grip has to change).

Nope, not the issue. The compact has problems reliably eating our ammo.

Update: M&Ps still not authorized.

Oh & BTW, Mossberg pumps are still out of service. Highway and ESU still using old Ithaca 37's. The job has found the problem(s) and solutions, now waiting for Mossberg to anti-up.

What ammo is that... the Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P?

Thanks!

How about setting a performance standard, and a specified ammunition, and letting the OFFICERS choose their sidearm from a long list of respectable firearms?

Make the officers qualify every six months (and not just make that a standard on paper - I mean really come to the range and qualify every six months minimum).

Fail to qualify or gun no-worky, then admin. leave without pay until qualify and gun-worky. There are some people who are going to limp-wrist any semi-auto pistol, and who are going to have misfires, no matter what. Get them off the department, or let them correct third-grade spelling tests.

Teach the sergeants how to spot a dirty or neglected gun.

I can't stand how some cops show about as much understanding of their personal sidearm as a teenage girl changing a tire.

This business of pistol selection by committee bureaucracy run amok.

__________________
WWSSD?
What would Skeeter do?

Never work, the Department is TOO large.


We do re-qual every 6 months.



This is not a problem, the failure rate is not all that large, considering the amount of personal we have.


Gun inspection is done at sign-in.


Something that will never change in an organization this large. Human Nature, everyone marches to a different drum.


All warm and fuzzy for smal to mid-size Depts. Try that with a 35k dept and see where it gets you. Sorry, but its (within reason) one size fits all.

Why the 9 and not the .40?

I heard the new rookies are getting different holster too? One with a top strap like the pancake

Just FYI the LASD has re-authorized the M&P9 and M&P9 compact. The problems were weak extractor springs. New classes are getting the guns and deputies in the field can carry it as an option.

Because who ever make the choice on guns is a very smart person.

__________________
Don't look, reload and shoot!

The reason the LASD gives for not allowing the .40 is because they currently issue 9mm and allow .45 auto. They are concerned that it would be possible for a deputy to mistakenly load .40 round into a .45 auto.

This is not an unrealistic concern. When my agency switched from 9mm to .40 we had a couple of officers load 9mm into the .40 and it fired! Made some very odd shaped holes in the targets!

We had a deputy that carried a Beretta 96 load 9mm ammo in his magazine and it fired without a problem, although accuracy was an issue.

ultra45, any change in the M&P9/9c status?

Not with the M&P 9 & 9c, but heard they may begin or have started looking at the M&P Shield for off duty.

Hello Guys! Flew the coop from the job a few years ago, what are the authorizied offduty firearms? I know the Glock 26 is one and the karr is no longer, what else is out there?

On a side note, after extensive testing, ATF ditched the M&P's and went with the Gen 4 Glock's

Isn't the Speer 124 grain Gold Dot the same ammo that "the job" had the terrible "triple feed" or whatever it was called with the Glock 19 Service Pistol? Instead of just switching to ammo that works (there are plenty of other choices that are proven performers on the street), didn't they have Glock come down to Rodman's Neck or wherever, set up shop in a trailer and commence using machine tools such to modify the Glock 19? Wouldn't this whole issue be resolved if "the job" would just change ammo? What an easy fix made ridiculous by a bureaucracy hampered by "committee thinking" rather than common sense.

Well now, that will show them. Get rid of S&W and get the Gen 4 Glock, which has already had a "not-a-recall" across the board no-cost recoil spring replacement for every one of these gems! Good show BATFE!

But what do you expect from an agency that has an excellent track record of being so helpful to gun dealers and so "fast and furious" in its support of law enforcement officials all over the country.

This whole discussion is precisely why non-LEOs need not be impressed by the decision of this agency or that to issue this or that. Test it yourself. If it works, use it. Don't worry that "the job" or BATFE or any other agency did or did not approve a certain make or model. There are plenty of other considerations besides performance in these large agency decisions. The fact is that such decisions are not always performance based, no matter what some armorer told some officer.

Glock never wanted to acknowledge the problem existed until "the Job" forced them to. Guess it was enough of a problem, Glock incorporated into new pistol production.

I fail to be impressed by the NYPD and how they determine suitable firearms and ammo. shawn mccarver has it 100% right. It is beaurocracy run amok. Non gun people making decisions as to what is appropriate to carry. There is no gun out there that is 100% reliable or "perfect" as Glock claims to be. NYPD is nitpicking on what gun is good enough to meet their standards. The truth is that S&W has failed tests, Glock has failed tests, SIG has failed tests. Clearly there is no perfect gun out there.

This is what I love about tiny depts... as long as chief and the dept rangemaster is ok with it. you carry what you want!

I asked the chief if a Mk23 would be ok. he said it's an HK, so I have no problem with it.

I ended up buying a MP40 pro for duty work.

like I said... gotta love small depts

It would be interesting to know what problems the compact M&P are having. I am over 800 rounds in my M&P 9c and it has not missed a lick period. I use good ammo, great ammo, Russian ammo, dirty ammo, +P, FMJ, JHP....it just shoots everything. The NYPD could super glue a brick to the trigger to attain the proper trigger pull.

I was at Rodman's neck 2 weeks ago I sold my off duty figuring i was retiring this year but didn't.I asked one of the instructors if they were testing any new ones for off duty use he didn't mention anything about S&W but said they were testing a beretta storm subcompact.Also one of the instructors said they were trying to authorize the G19 gen4 but were having problems with it.

Why get rid of the 5946?? I love mine!!