So last week I'm at the department range doing my bi-annual requal. I was one of the lucky few they picked to do the advanced tactics course that day (it was awesome btw). Since we were a small group we got to BS with the instructors much more than we normally would have. While talking about how some people shoot poorly because they have a gun that doesn't fit them right we were told that the department will very soon be adopting the M&P9 as a service weapon. That's right, the NYPD is going M&P. S&W won't be making the 5946, or any 3rd Gens I guess, much longer. The M&P9c will also be an authorized off duty. The instructors we were speaking to really like the idea of the changeable backstrap, but otherwise didn't seem too enamored with the gun. I hope the NYPD doesn't ruin it like they did with the Glock and Sig so I can pick one up cheap from the Equipment Section as a fun gun, I have no intention of dumping my 5946. I'm sure Smith & Wesson is thrilled about scoring that contract.

S&W hasn't made a press release on the change; usually they're pretty quick to make an announcement, particularly when it's something as big as equipping the largest police department in the world.

I think the move would be good for people such as myself with small hands.When I started shooting in the 1980's the wonder Glock was the rage.My instructor was a old school LE Instructor,handed me a Model 10,and said when you learn to shoot a double action revolver well you will be able to shoot anything well.It took 17 years and me becoming a instructor to get around to semiautomatic shooting.I gravitated immeadiately to the 3rd Gen Smiths with the single stack mag, all metal construction,mag disconnect,and a breakdown proceedure that doesn't involve pulling the trigger.Now if NYPD would get away from the 13 lb trigger pull they may be onto something...........God Bless......Mike

Is it an actual contract, or just an addition to the "authorized" list?

I thought NYPD Officers chose their pistols from an approved list? Didn't the list include S&W, Glock, Sig Sauer? And I thought all new recruits had the option of any of those on the list. Just my 2 cents.

And they still will, just the 5946 will be replaced by the M&P and the the 3914 and 3953 will be replaced by the M&P compact.

Sonny has it right. Weapons will be selected the same way, except the 5946 will be replaced by the M&P. I guess the easiest way of explaining it is the M&P is simply replacing the 5946. Sorry if my previously wordy post was a bit confusing. It hasn't been announced yet probably because the switch hasn't officially happened yet. It probably won't until 2010.

Since NYPD does not "issue" guns, but instead have an approved list from which officers can purchase from the equipment bureau, it seems that perhaps the M&P 9mm may have been approved for purchase. If so, perhaps it will replace the 5946 or be in addition to it.

I was under the impression that the approved list for duty pistols is the Glock 19, the S&W 5946 NY version or the SIG 226DAO NYPD version.

That is correct. What MTS Cop heard, and I've heard the same around, is that S&W is going to stop production of all 3rd. gen. pistols no matter who has a contract with them. The M&P is their new bread 'n butter in the auto world and therefore NYPD has to go with it or something else because here soon there will be no more 5946s (3914DAO and 3953 for backup/offduty also).

Interesting. If I were NYPD, I would spec the M&P9 with a trigger return spring that does NOT require the little felt pad insert AND I would require that the mags be finished in a corrosion resistant finish. Finally, I would make sure that any misfire issues have been fully resolved. That last issue (misfires) in an agency like NYPD could destroy the M&P in one swoop, so I hope for S&W's sake that they do whatever they need to in order to eliminate any misfire issues. The reports of misfires is just enough to keep that nagging worry about the weapon's reliability in the forefront. I believe a California agency recently pulled M&P9s because of misfire issues.

S&W is going to have to understand that S&B and other ****** ammo exists and people use it for practice. In addition, there is plenty of hard primer surplus European submachine gun 9mm that gets brought in and the M&P is going to have to be beefed up enough to fire the stuff, if S&W does not want to have a big problem on their hands.

Are you listening, S&W?

Los Angeles Sheriff Department pulled them from service in April. I believe there were a couple issues that began to show-up involvoing a failure to extract. If I can find any links to the documents, I'll post them.

ON EDIT: Click here for the LASD notice

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~No signature line

NYPD issues the Speer Gold Dot 124gr.+P JHP for their 9mms and they are extremely happy with it. If I'm not mistaken, they use duty loads for quals too.

The LASD problems seems to be related largely to the ammunition used. I have heard what I consider pretty reliable information that when the M&P pistols were replaced with the Beretta, the malfunctions continued. (The Berettas are painfully reliable when even minimally maintained, so this is telling...)

It sounds like a couple bad pistols combined with a bad lot of ammo resulted in the issue, though there is no official word yet. Last I heard the dept. is testing the Sig P250 and re-testing the M&P.

Do you happen know what ammo they were using with both the M&P and the 92FS? This inquiring mind would like to know.

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~No signature line

A buddy of mine on the Guilford County Sheriff's Department called me yesterday. They are going to transition to the M&P pistol, from the Glock 22. He was not happy.

Told me S&W is GIVING them the pistols and holsters in exchange for the Glock 22's. No wonder they are "increasing market share". If you can't win a T&E.....appeal to the bean counters. Regards 18DAI.

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

Yeah, and Glock would never do anything like that ...

The current practice ammo is Winchester Win-Clean. Before that was Federal Ballisticlean. Some guns (particularly the HK USP's) have been notoriously non-tolerant of this ammunition. Put duty ammo (Ranger-T's) in them and they work just fine, but using the clean ammo they REALLY commonly jammed on the last round. I can tell you this from first hand experience.

I consider this bad news as I prefer the 3rd generation S&W to the M&P polymer striker fired attempt at a handgun. I feel that way about every polymer striker fired.

We had a local department here that did the same thing, they traded their aged 4586 back to S&W in an even exchange for 45ACP M&P's.

The JOB (NYPD) will switch to the M&P reluctantly. As stated elsewhere, they currently only make the 5946 for us and I think MI State Police...Oh and the Canadian Mounties. The range has been testing the M&P since before it was released (read years ago) to the public and has had some issues with it. S&W, unlike Sig years ago, bens over backwards for "The Job", constantly making the requested improvements. I guess they finally got it right after all the testing and the job is confident enough to add it to the authorized list in the very near future.

I hope S&W doesn't quit making the 3rd Generation pistols all together! That would be a crime in itself, doesn't Califorina Highway Patrol still carry the S&W 4006?

S&W can make 3rd Gen pistols anytime it wants to. If they get orders to justify it, then they will since they are in business to make money. California does still issue the 4006, the current version having an integral picatinny rail and some slight differences discussed on this forum previously.

I would love to see a run of 4506's!

To each his own but if given the choice between an DAO 3rd Generation S&W auto or an M&P, I'd jump on the M&P! It appears any issues with the guns have been addressed and they are working fine (mine does). It's lighter, holds more rounds (not an issue as the 5946 holds plenty), and has a better/quicker trigger reset. I'm guessing they'll be cheaper as well.

Will the M&Ps have the standard weight trigger as the commercial/LE guns or is NYPD asking for something heavier (like they do for the Glock)?

The reason for the switch is S&W isn't making metal framed pistols anymore, 5946 included. The NYPD buys guns by the hundreds if not thousands. If that size order isn't enough to persuade the factory to produce a run I'm thinking they are cashing out on the 3rd Gens period.

And I'm willing to bet the NYPD will specify some rediculous trigger and ruin the gun, just like they did with the Dept issued Glocks and Sigs. The 5946 met Dept regs right out of the box so it never got messed with and got to remain in all its S&W goodness.

Looks as if it will be some time before the M&P is approved. It appears that problems still exist with the compact M&P slated for off duty use. The full size service pistol is good to go, but "The Job" won't take one with out the other..So, no M&P's until issues with the compact are resolved.

What's the issue with the compact?

From what I have heard it all boils down to an ammo problem. They are seeing functioning problems only with the compact and our service ammo. S&W says its too dirty causing the problems, as I believe other ammo is digested w/o any problems. The job is not going to change ammo, it happens to be an excellent round. S&W and the range are working out the problem.

In the real world, any other department would adopt the service pistol and wait for the fix of the off duty (compact), but this is the NYPD....need we say more.......

To their credit, S&W does a great job, as does Glock (for the most part) addressing problems. Sig on the otherhand is not so Dept friendly. They were dropped once by the NYPD and only came back after changing their tune and addressing the depatments concerns with their product.

When/if they decide to switch from the 5946 to the M&P9, will it be the standard size M&P? And since the M&P9 has a higher round count than 15 rounds, will they do something to make the mag hold 15? I guess they'd use the MA trigger (10+ Lbs) as standard? It would be a feather in S&W's cap to get the M&P into NYPD holsters.

GLOCK is coming out with a new pistol which trys to catch up with Smith & Wesson; ie. backstraps etc.

Officers are reporting seeing proto-types at ranges in NE America. Nothing on the street as yet.

I like the Smith; got 'em in 9, 40 and 45 and they are all shooters.

NYPD would do well with these pistols.

S&W IS still making their metal frame Tactical series guns for LEO contracts by special order.

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Pete T.

UPDATE

I was at the range today for requal and heard some M&P news. As of now it hasn't been adopted. Apparently our duty ammo is too hot for the M&P and is causing too many malfunctions. S&W is working with the NYPD to make the M&P 9 124gr +P friendly. I just told you everything I know.

In other news it looks like the Blackhawk Serpa holster may become an option. I hope this is true as I really am not a fan of our current holster and anything else would be better.

As I posted earlier (#28) the ammo problem is in the compact version of the M&P. The NYPD (AKA) "The Job" wants to offer both the service pistol and the compact together and has decided to WAIT (what *****es) until S&W can fix the problem (as MTS stated) with the Compact. For those of us OTJ this way of thinking is not new.

I've shot 124+P Ranger-Ts and 124+P Gold Dots out of mine without any issues, but I've only shot a box of 50 or so of each. So far, for 600+ rounds my M&P 9 has been completely relaible. Did they happen to say what problems they were experiencing?

ultra45, you posted right as I hit reply. I see now the M&P 9 Compact is what NYPD is having reliability issues with, not the fullsize. I assume the M&P 9 FS is GTG?

Yes Lt, the full size has finally passed the testing phase. Our Job is anal retentive ans wants S&W to fix the compact issue before they authorized BOTH guns.

Thanks for the update. I hope S&W gets the bugs worked out on the compacts as I think the M&Ps would make a great addition to the NYPD authorized carry list.

MTS Cop, any updates?

I'm curious too, any news on the M&P for NYPD? I think the 5946 is a great pistol, and it would have been my choice for duty (with a 3953 for off-duty) if I worked for NYPD. Even so, the M&P is a fine pistol, even if it doesn't have the "soul" of a 3rd Generation.

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Hello Cleveland, Rock and Roll

Aren't those things striker fired, with no trigger reset if you get a misfire?

I wouldn't own one, or a Glock. I know that some feel differently.

Of the NY list, I'd buy the SIG.

T-Star

folks,
this is new to me. what is a good reliable self defense ammo for the mp9 c gun then

Most LE training programs don't teach a second strike on a misfire, even with pistols that have the capability. Eject and try again with a new round.

I've heard nothing since I first heard about it. Others have told me they asked and were told the program is on hold for now. I have a friend in the current academy class and the 5946 is still one of the options. He wisely chose it I might add.

Just like the first 5946s (not sure if the TSW versions have double strike capability, doubt it though).

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I miss my 4546 the most.

I am always glad to hear any PD switching to a "born in the USA sidearm". S&W has been making fine shooters for a long time. We don't need no stinkin' Glocks. Keep our money right here in America.

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US Army 1965-1971

We are taught to immediately use a phase 1 clearing if there is a misfire. Second strike capability is absolutely worthless. Tap, rack, ready.

At a recent shooting event at our Dept range, S&W had a big presence, donating a M&P15 with a Surefire light for the winner and plenty of guns to fondle. The S&W rep (who claimed to be with Glock for 14 years prior) was a big M&P guy (obviously) and when asked why NYPD was breaking M&Ps during testing, he claimed it was because the heavy trigger was smoothing out to under 10 Lbs. and NYPD didn't like that. I didn't ask why the M&P40 we tested broke, he seemed like a nice guy.

We issue the same round. In the shootings we have had, they have performed very well. I'm a .45 guy at heart, but I don't have any problem with our Glock 17, 19 and 26's when loaded down with these. They run at about 1240 fps out of the 19.

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Dave Frost

My M&P's have never malfunctioned.
Just need to be careful that your thumb doesn't accidently activate the slide release button while firing !

What is breaking in testing?

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NRA Certified Instructor

Typical. The Speer 124 GD +P has been used by hundreds of departments for many years with no issues. Smith has a problem with a new gun, "gee it must be your ammo".

Reminds me of back in the 80's, when they would tell agencies that it was their ammo that was locking up the L frames. Problem was, it didn't matter whether you were using Remington, Winchester, or Federal, whatever you had, they'd tell you it was causing the issue.......

That lasted until rangemasters started talking with each other and some news articles were written..... Hello recall....

Yup... if it didn't go off the first time, good chance it won't go off the 2nd...... Get rid of it and start fresh.