More Problems

[Aldoradave]

I have settled on 308 for ammo stockpile so have dumped a bunch of 30-06. I have 1 M14 and 1 M1A with a bunch of military surplus 7.62 x 51 that my father left me. It is all dated 1979 but works just fine in my old M14 and new M1A.

But it doesn't work with a damn in either of my new M&P 10s, neither the 20 round Magpul or the stock 10 round steel.

Is it the mags or is the M&P 10 just too sensitive to ammo type?

Dave Dillehay

[rootbrain]

Originally Posted by Aldoradave

I have settled on 308 for ammo stockpile so have dumped a bunch of 30-06. I have 1 M14 and 1 M1A with a bunch of military surplus 7.62 x 51 that my father left me. It is all dated 1979 but works just fine in my old M14 and new M1A.

But it doesn't work with a damn in either of my new M&P 10s, neither the 20 round Magpul or the stock 10 round steel.

Is it the mags or is the M&P 10 just too sensitive to ammo type?

Dave Dillehay

Well, when you say it "doesn't work" exactly how? If you explain in more detail you might get better response. The fact that it "doesn't work" is pretty broad.

Also "surplus ammo" is pretty broad. Who made it?

[rojodiablo]

Originally Posted by rootbrain

Well, when you say it "doesn't work" exactly how? If you explain in more detail you might get better response. The fact that it "doesn't work" is pretty broad.

Also "surplus ammo" is pretty broad. Who made it?

I have to agree; more info please.

Remember, the true 308 ammo runs hotter than the military 7.62. (Opposite the 223/556) A rifle whose gas system is set to run 308 might have issue with underpowered or old, old ammo. But circa 1979 is not that old for factory ammo, and should be no problem.

[amazingflapjack]

As stated-.308 and 7.62X51 is not the same thing.

[Aldoradave]

I had two problems. One was a failure to extract a cartridge after firing, the other problem was several times the round jammed up trying to insert the cartridge, one time even bending the projectile.

Dave Dillehay

[rootbrain]

Originally Posted by Aldoradave

I had two problems. One was a failure to extract a cartridge after firing, the other problem was several times the round jammed up trying to insert the cartridge, one time even bending the projectile.

Dave Dillehay

That sounds like short cycling. The ammo doesn't have enough "ummph" to completely cycle to BCG for extracting and loading another round. You might try a box or two of new .308 to see if you have the same problem.

Just because the surplus your father gave you works in two other rifles doesn't mean it's GTG for this one.

Also, it could indicate an issue with the mag. Make sure to "tap" the mag to insure the rounds are all the way back, check the feed lips, spring tension etc. I see you have more than one mag the problem occurs on. Something I always use with my mags is a product called Tetra Gun. It's a flouropolymer light lubricant/cleaner. I always take new mags apart and use this on them, inside and out. Since I started doing that I've had far, far fewer FTE and feed problems with any of my guns. And ejecting empty and loading full mags is easier as well.

Wouldn't hurt to check the feed ramps either, make sure there are no burrs or machine marks. Perhaps a polishing is in order.

[jcsdad]

Originally Posted by Aldoradave

I had two problems. One was a failure to extract a cartridge after firing, the other problem was several times the round jammed up trying to insert the cartridge, one time even bending the projectile.

Dave Dillehay

hi, I have the same problem in my new rifle. called s&w and was told I have to send it back and they will fix it. am now waiting for the call tag. what have you done to fix this problem?

[cb4017]

Is your 79 dated surplus ammo USGI? My M&P 10 functions fine with Lake City 60s vintage M80 ball and M118 Match ammo. It also runs TW and WCC fine.

All the problems I've read about so far have been with foreign ammo.

[maico75]

Just picked up my new M&P 10 saturday. Same problem with not feeding with the stock magazine. The first round will chamber and fire but the next round will not move up all the way to the lips in the rear of the mag and the bolt will not strip it off to chamber. Usually it will just push it back in to the magazine but sometimes will try to chamber it and bend the cartidge. Tried a Magpul PMAG and it worked fine. It seems to be a follower problem. Tried Frog lube and it did not improve. S&W told me to send the mag back and they will fix it.

[Arkaden]

Just seconding all this. My factory SW mag is a piece of garbage. It does appear to have follower problems. Had a few problems with it, like others I swapped to Pmags and no issues. I have since shot the old magazine to make me feel better.

[jcsdad]

anyone know where i can get a CA compliant pmag for my M&P 10? would like to try it once before i ship this rifle back to S&W. been to the range 2x,(same problem FTE, FTL) thought cleaning and oiling the gun would work. it did not and hoping for an easier fix before i ship it back.

[maico75]

jcsdad- I contacted Magpul yesterday to check the status of their new 10 rd mags and they are sheduled for mid 2013 but not out yet. They just said to keep checking the website. I did seem to have a little better results with the PMC .308 ammo as opposed to the Lake City 2013 stuff so some of the issues may be do to underpowered? 7.62 NATO. I too am stuck with Ca laws, the Pmag I used was when I was visiting my buddy in Nev last weekend. I want to get my hands on some 10 rd Pmags too. You might want to just send the mag back, not the whole gun. It seems like the gun shows here are a good way to get other than stock mags. A friend of mine bought a 20 rd Pmag rivited to 10 rds at a recent show.

[maico75]

jcsdad- you may also want to try a DPMS 10 rd mag before you send your gun back. They are in stock at Midway. I just ordered one so I have something to shoot with until I get my stock mag back from S&W (hopefully functioning well).

[jcsdad]

maico75.... i was having the same problem using the factory mag and the DPMS that I ordered from Natchez. I think they are the same magazine (made buy ASC). I could be wrong, but it sure looks the same to me. The only thing different is the factory mag has the m&P logo on the bottom. thanks and good luck

[maico75]

jcsdad- I tried a DPMS 20 rd mag last weekend also and it worked fine. So I hope that the 10 rd works for me. I have heard that they made the S&W mags- Hopefully just a bad batch. The follower in the 20 rd DPMS mag was different than the S&W 10 rd but the bottom plate looked the same. The S&W seems to cock and stick easily. The DPMS worked smoothly and would not stick.

[jcsdad]

maico75.... hope it works for you too....i may be able to try a magpul. a local gunstore was kind enough to let me use one this weekend. i was also advised to try ammo "with more ump" so i got a box of american eagle. (not easy to find ammo where i am).

[jcsdad]

just got back, put around 60 rounds of different makes of american made ammo. used 3 different mags. for the first time, I was able to shoot my rifle.....long and short, this rifle does not like the CBC and Norinco ammo and the mags did not matter. will let my shoulder heal a bit then go back for more

[MassDave]

glad its working for you now.

[mandsmyer]

It,s the ammo. I just purchased an m&p 10 took it out last weekend and tried to fire 7.62 146gr CBC ammo and it did not like that at all, basically became a bolt action rifle, bolt would not go back enough to load next round. Enough to eject but not fee. I just went out today with 308 rounds and it did perfect, no malfunctions. I have found that the 10 rd mag that comes with the rifle is basically useless. Not sure if I got a bad one but lots of issues with it even with the 308 rd. the 308 rds I used were 180gr federal s and hornadys. Little more kick but very shootable. Maybe after a few hundred rounds it will loosen up and the buffer spring will soften up and you can shoot the 7.62 ammo. I will try after a few hundred rds myself. By the way I used 20rd Pmags. Hope this helps

[jcsdad]

that ammo (CBC m80) sucks, when used on an M&P10, has anyone tried using it on an M1A? just trying to figure out what i can do with (450+)what i have left. thanks

[Lil65GTO]

Originally Posted by maico75

Just picked up my new M&P 10 saturday. Same problem with not feeding with the stock magazine. The first round will chamber and fire but the next round will not move up all the way to the lips in the rear of the mag and the bolt will not strip it off to chamber. Usually it will just push it back in to the magazine but sometimes will try to chamber it and bend the cartidge. Tried a Magpul PMAG and it worked fine. It seems to be a follower problem. Tried Frog lube and it did not improve. S&W told me to send the mag back and they will fix it.

maico75, I'm having same problem. Just shot my 10 today... ACS mag piece of *****! 1st round loads, but then the remaining rounds all seem to move forward in the mag (out of position) and bam*** no worky.. initial feeding ok, seems to run 1st 3-4 rounds then bam*** no worky... Thought maybe I didn't load mag properly so unload, reload start and bam*** no worky - *****...

After multiple attempts, I noticed the follower was not flush. I think this is a mag issue, not an ammo issue. No problem with eject.

[chkv]

I've brought my M&P10 out to the range twice now and had similar issues each time. There were no problems ejecting rounds, always feeding issues. The first time, whenever the ACS mag would get down to the last 3-4 rounds, the bolt would be unable to strip the cartridge due to the angle of the mag follower. The bolt would just scrape over the top of the brass casing. It didn't jam at all otherwise.

However, on my 2nd trip, rounds were instead getting jammed every so often when loading and the bullet was getting bent in the casing. I had to throw out about 5 of the 50 or so rounds that day.

I made sure to completely clean and oil the rifle first and after every trip to the range. Others have mentioned this rifle needs anywhere from 100-200 rounds before it breaks in. I sure hope that's not the case since that's quite an expensive process. I've only put about 80 rounds through it so far and it's been a bit disappointing.

[rojodiablo]

Originally Posted by mandsmyer

It,s the ammo. I just purchased an m&p 10 took it out last weekend and tried to fire 7.62 146gr CBC ammo and it did not like that at all, basically became a bolt action rifle, bolt would not go back enough to load next round. Enough to eject but not fee. I just went out today with 308 rounds and it did perfect, no malfunctions. I have found that the 10 rd mag that comes with the rifle is basically useless. Not sure if I got a bad one but lots of issues with it even with the 308 rd. the 308 rds I used were 180gr federal s and hornadys. Little more kick but very shootable. Maybe after a few hundred rounds it will loosen up and the buffer spring will soften up and you can shoot the 7.62 ammo. I will try after a few hundred rds myself. By the way I used 20rd Pmags. Hope this helps

I will say that my rifle is the same platform, but not the M&P. It was in need of breaking in to get it to run 100% of the time. In the beginning, it was a bit ammo sensitive, but not like these rifles. I ran about 250 of this stuff thru the rifle while on my trip to Texas this spring. No issues whatsoever; the rifles SHOULD operate on almost any ammo shoved down their pipe.

[MassDave]

I use the ACS 10 round magazines and have had no problems i could blame on them. i have had plenty of problems with some of the ammo, but the same magazine with different ammo works flawlessly.

[Waddy]

Add another user having the exact same feeding problems with the factory magazine. I talked to the factory rep and he was aware of the problem. Told me to oil the bearing surfaces on the follower and inside the mag case. Didn't help. Frankly, I'm pretty surprised that S & W would supply a magazine with this type quality. I live in a pretty remote area of Colorado (which now has joined the dark side unfortunately), so buying a good 20 round PMag locally is out of the question for the present. I had my gun store order a couple of 10 round PMags, but it is pretty aggravating when the factory equipment fails so miserably to function.

[rojodiablo]

Originally Posted by Waddy

Add another user having the exact same feeding problems with the factory magazine. I talked to the factory rep and he was aware of the problem. Told me to oil the bearing surfaces on the follower and inside the mag case. Didn't help. Frankly, I'm pretty surprised that S & W would supply a magazine with this type quality. I live in a pretty remote area of Colorado (which now has joined the dark side unfortunately), so buying a good 20 round PMag locally is out of the question for the present. I had my gun store order a couple of 10 round PMags, but it is pretty aggravating when the factory equipment fails so miserably to function.

Never oil a magazine. It attracts gunk like a dog **** draws flies.
Clean it out; you can use brake cleaner in the metal mag body, but DO NOT hit the plastic follower with any solvents like acetone, alcohol or brake cleaners. Use simple green, dish soap, laundry soap, etc.
If the follower is so gritty that you feel a need to use anything in there, a dry Teflon spray would be the only possible choice.
It's not magazines, it is the buffer weight, and friction on the bolt in the upper receiver. I swear it.

[Waddy]

Originally Posted by rojodiablo

Never oil a magazine. It attracts gunk like a dog **** draws flies.
Clean it out; you can use brake cleaner in the metal mag body, but DO NOT hit the plastic follower with any solvents like acetone, alcohol or brake cleaners. Use simple green, dish soap, laundry soap, etc.
If the follower is so gritty that you feel a need to use anything in there, a dry Teflon spray would be the only possible choice.
It's not magazines, it is the buffer weight, and friction on the bolt in the upper receiver. I swear it.

Never oil magazines is my normal position with magazines as well, but the S&W rep I talked to on the phone told me to do just that. I thought it was worth a try and might help with a "break-in period". I do think it might have helped a little, though not much. I can, and will, clean it properly later.


It is definitely a magazine problem, as the problem can also be replicated with the magazine outside the gun, just pushing the rounds out manually. The rounds slide forward and the follower does not push the rear of the cartridges up far enough for the bolt to engage the head; it just slides over the rear of the cartridge and scrapes up the side of the case until it either jams or closes on an empty chamber.

Thanks for a very useful discussion everyone!

[KentB]

My M&P 10 came with a Magpul 20 mag.
No problems at all.
Hopefully Magpul will start pumping out their 308 mags soon.

[LlindeX]

Originally Posted by Waddy

Add another user having the exact same feeding problems with the factory magazine. I talked to the factory rep and he was aware of the problem. Told me to oil the bearing surfaces on the follower and inside the mag case. Didn't help. Frankly, I'm pretty surprised that S & W would supply a magazine with this type quality. I live in a pretty remote area of Colorado (which now has joined the dark side unfortunately), so buying a good 20 round PMag locally is out of the question for the present. I had my gun store order a couple of 10 round PMags, but it is pretty aggravating when the factory equipment fails so miserably to function.

Waddy,
Don't know exactly what part of CO you're living in, but down hear on the "Front Range" we still have lots of dealers selling repair kits for your existing 20 round magazines. (Cop friends and lawyers tell me It's entirely legal.) If your in NW Colo. and ever get down here, you can easily pick one up. If you ever go up to Rock Springs, WY; just buy yourself a new 20 round magazine, take it apart, put it in a zip-lock bag, mark it as "Repair Parts" with a Sharpie marker, and bring that sucker back home with you. (We can't let CHickenlooper, win on this one.)

Oh, and by the way, S&W, YOU Folks should be ashamed of yourselves for putting ****** magazines without anti-tilt followers in a gun you mark with a $1619 MSRP. That takes real smarts if you ask me! I might expect a similar issue if I were buying an el cheapo import gun. But it chaps my XXX to pay this kind of money and get a magazine that I have to overhaul or replace before I can shoot my gun. It's happening far to often, and you guys know about the defect. Correct the problem!