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Old 01-10-2016, 05:48 PM
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Default Long distance shooting?

Is the M&P 10 suitable for long distance shooting? Specifically 500-1,000 yards?
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Old 01-10-2016, 06:20 PM
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Ranging Long: M&P10 at 707 yards - YouTube
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Old 01-10-2016, 09:55 PM
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To the OP, I will say definitively, "maybe".

I am seeing a large number of Mk110s at Camp Perry during the 1000 yard matches, especially amongst the military. I have not really followed them closely, since due to injuries, I will never be able to shoot one effectively. (Yes, I realize that my inattentiveness is a bit shallow.)

I think that it is safe to say that your AR10 should have some specific characteristics if you wish to reach out to 1000 yards. These characteristics can prove very beneficial at 500 yards and beyond. Your rifle should have a Varmint weight/style barrel, in order to minimize the harmonic vibrations that destroy long range accuracy. Your barrel should be at least 24" long, if not longer. Barrel length will contribute to the muzzle velocity of the round, allowing the powder to burn completely. Out to 600 yards, a 168gr HPBT should be accurate. Beyond 600 yards, I would suggest using a 175 to 215gr HPBT or VLD bullet, which you need to keep supersonic at the target. I find that I can keep a 175gr HPBT supersonic at 1000 yards out of my Remington 700 Varmint 308 with a 26" barrel. This should work with a barrel twist of 1:10 - 1:12".
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Old 01-10-2016, 11:41 PM
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Irrifleman pretty much covered it. The rifle has the potential and can reach out pretty far out of the box but to get to 1,000 yards, you will need more than how the factory built it.

At minimum, a high quality trigger and the barrel free floated but I suspect the rifle may need more than that to reach out that far.

The video posted above shows that it can reach out to 700+. In other videos, the guy in the video is very careful to make it known that long range shooting is challenging. Even with the right setup, it will take some time to "dial" it in to adjust for range conditions at that time. Hitting the target with the first shot, while possible. is not likely.
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Old 01-10-2016, 11:52 PM
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When you get to shooting a .308 at those ranges you
better have 3 things.
Barrel
Trigger
Bedding
Add GOOD Glass.
Some practice and if the shooter can do his/her part
no reason why not. You might have a good barrel out of
the box. Replace your trigger with one of several good
after market triggers and check your bedding.
Scope it up the right way with good glass and head to
the range. Study the wind at these distances. Have fun !!
Long distance shooting is a blast.


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Old 01-11-2016, 10:00 AM
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Not to be a smart alec but what bedding? As far as I know, no AR rifle of any kind is bedded in any sort of a way.
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Old 01-11-2016, 11:43 AM
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Not to be a smart alec but what bedding? As far as I know, no AR rifle of any kind is bedded in any sort of a way.
The only "bedding" that I use is an "accu-wedge". They go for about $5, and I believe that they are an absolute necessity for the serious, accuracy oriented AR shooter!
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Old 01-11-2016, 01:54 PM
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Ok, I get you.

Rastoff, you may find this video interesting. It's not an M&P10 but the general idea is covered.
https://www.full30.com/video/72d12e9...f6868d3faa6b08
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Old 01-12-2016, 09:29 PM
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Thanks for the info. I have put on order an 18" barreled upper with a DPMS pattern lower. This may not be the most precision a person can get, but I'm going to see what it will do.

Here is another article about barrel length that guided me toward this decision: The Truth About Barrel Length, Muzzle Velocity and Accuracy - The Truth About Guns It was an eye opener for me. I would always have fallen on the side of longer being better, but now I'm not so sure.

Once I get the whole thing built, I'll do some shooting and see what we see.
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Old 01-12-2016, 10:33 PM
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It depends on the round. Some do better with a longer barrel and others see no benefit or an actual detriment. That's where always looking to learn more comes in handy.
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Old 01-12-2016, 11:24 PM
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Hello. I offer this not to be critical of your selection, but to suggest that your selection could be based on flawed logic, and not perform as you anticipate.

I just read the article link that you included concerning barrel length and accuracy, and I did try to view it objectively. I am afraid that a number of premises, and the supporting scientific data is misleading. I state this based on over 40 years of smallbore and high power rifle competitions, in both a competitor and observer capacity.

I share the following observations:
1. You don't see short barreled 10/22 type carbines competing with Anschutz style free rifles in Olympic competitions.
2. In Palma type matches, in order to keep the requisite 155gr bullets supersonic at the 800-1000 yard lines, a 28" barrel tends to be the requisite standard.
3. The cartridge and ammunition utilized focused on a distance envelope where the projectile didn't push the supersonic limits.

When I was physically able to shoot service rifle matches, I used the. 30-'06, the 308, and the 223. The 22" barrel on the M1 and M14 type rifles were sufficient to harness the bullets to stay within a 1 MOA standard. The 20" barrel on an AR15A2 was also adequate for 1 MOA performance.

Now that I must shoot F class due to my disabilities, sub MOA performance is critical in order to be competitive. At my home range, under typical conditions, I must keep a bullet at or above 1240 fps in order to control the grouping ability of my rounds. In order to keep a 0.224" 80gr HPBT supersonic at the 1000 yard line, I need a 26" barrel (my target muzzle velocity is 2840 fps). I can't come close with a 24" barrel. Ages ago, I was competitive with a 24" Remington 700 in 308, but the velocity at target was too close to the minimum supersonic velocity.

I now use a Remington 700 Long Range in 7mm Remington Magnum and with the loads I prefer, I have pushed the supersonic barrier from 1000 yards to close to 1400 yards, and my groups are significantly tighter. This is a 26 inch barrel rifle.

Other factors to keep in mind are the rifle's leade and corresponding bullet jump, bullet weight, and barrel twist.

The higher the muzzle velocity at distance, the greater the controlability of the bullet, and the tighter the group.

Yes, the 18 inch barrel that you ordered may get your bullets to the target at distance, but the grouping and wind bucking ability may not deliver what you expect.
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Old 01-13-2016, 11:43 PM
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I hear you Ed, but what do I expect? I'm not even sure I know at this time.

As a lefty my choices become limited. Yes, there are lefty rifles out there, but they are few and far between. And, the prices go up exponentially. So, I'll admit that I'm taking a chance here.

Yes, part of this decision is the challenge as well. I have no illusions. I'm a shotgun guy first, a defensive pistol shooter second and a rank beginner rifleman. I've had many people tell me, "You can't do X with Y gun." Well, maybe I can't, but I can try. No, I'm not trying to compete in the biathlon or at Camp Perry. This is just a hobby. If I were really trying to be competitive, I'd have bought a bolt gun. I'm just trying to see if I can hit something at a longer distance with this.

Is it the best money can buy? Certainly not. Will it hit targets beyond 500 yards? I think it should be able to do that. This is an AR forums so, I thought we could talk about using an AR to do some shooting.

Also, this type of rifle lends itself to easily changing the barrel. It won't be hard to add a longer barrel if I want to later.
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Old 01-14-2016, 08:31 AM
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I think it is doable, just not as easily as with a bolt rifle. I think that is why scope makers that make scopes specific to the AR platform and the .308 round limit their BDC reticules to 800 yards. There is enough room for hold over to go further and figure MOA to be about 10" at 1,000 yards. So if you can hit within about 10" on a 24" or 36" target, you are doing very well.

I say go for it! Hell, if I can just hit the 24" target at that range I would be happy. That's a lot of distance and weather influence to deal with.
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Old 01-14-2016, 10:22 AM
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Sorry if I came across as critical and condescending. Prior to my accident, I was competitive to a degree. Now, I am just grateful that I can get down and fire an occasional match.

After my accident, I was delusional to think that I could still shoot prone without the assistance of a bipod, so I built up an AR that was capable of shooting 1000 yard matches. I am learning a lot about reloading and precision shooting. While I did revert to a bolt gun or two for the 1000 yard line, I am not giving up. I have gone to Perry since '88, missing only '07-'11 due to injury recovery. I was never national champion quality, but I was nationally ranked ... now I am relearning the game with a few new twists. When I go out for NRA long range, it is more for the stimulation, comaraderie, investigating theories, catching up with old friends, and see what might be left on commercial row, not to mention grabbing a dinner or two at Phil's!

If I can offer a few heart felt suggestions:
1. Since You are a lefty, and not using what now may be a rare Stag Arms left hand upper, grab an A4 case deflector, it could save you a face full of hot brass!
2. Get good, quality glass. Being on fixed income, I am extremely frugal. (I have found, shooting off a bipod, that I rarely set my magnification at 1000 yards much above 12x.)
On my long range AR, I have an old El Paso Weaver T10,
On my short range Remington 700 I have an old El Paso Weaver T10,
On my mid/long range Remington 700 in 308, I have an old El Paso Weaver T16,
On my Remington 700 Long Range in 7mm Remington Magnum I have a Viper Vortex scope (6-24x).
3. Get a Stoney Point style C.O.L. tool, and measure your rifle/barrel leade, and load your ammo so that the bullet is about 0.015-0.020" off the lands. This may mean that you have to load your ammo long, and not load it in your magazine.
4. When you try to go beyond 600 yards, switch from a 168gr HPBT to a 175-185gr HPBT, to better buck the wind.
5. If you can, try to get a few "sample packs" of the Berger. 30 VLD bullets, you may find you get unrealistic results from a 215gr VLD from your short barrel.
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Old 01-14-2016, 09:25 PM
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If I can offer a few heart felt suggestions:
Suggestions are always welcome and I didn't think you were being condescending. I wouldn't come here if I didn't want help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lrrifleman View Post
1. Since You are a lefty, and not using what now may be a rare Stag Arms left hand upper, grab an A4 case deflector, it could save you a face full of hot brass!
No lefty upper, but I have fired a few thousand rounds through the AR15 (M16 or M4 when in the military). I have never received hot brass in my face, but have had some brass land on my right forearm.

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2. Get good, quality glass
....
I have a Viper Vortex scope (6-24x).
Brother you are preaching to the choir on this one. If I had a nickel for every time I've tried to get someone to get good glass...

I spent several months researching quality scopes prior to buying my first .308 which I sold to a friend (I only put 70 rounds through that gun). I bought a Vortex Viper PST FFP 4-16x50 with EBR mrad reticle. Kept that when I sold the rifle.


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3. Get a Stoney Point style C.O.L. tool, and measure your rifle/barrel leade, and load your ammo so that the bullet is about 0.015-0.020" off the lands.
This is a tool I don't have...yet. In fact, a friend and I were just talking about leade. He has his set to .010" and says that's working good for his rifle. This is an area I know little about, but plan on learning.

I have a Dillon 550B, but I think I will go to a single stage press for .308. I'll be looking for consistency over quantity with this load.


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4. When you try to go beyond 600 yards, switch from a 168gr HPBT to a 175-185gr HPBT, to better buck the wind.
OK, I'll keep that in mind. Based on what I've read so far, I'm going to start with 168gr HPBT bullets. I'm also going to work at 200 and 300 yards at first. I want to familiarize myself with the rifle. Plus, our local range only has a 300 yard target board. There's thousands of miles of empty desert not far away so, setting up targets at 1,000 yards or more isn't hard. I just don't feel it's wise to start at that distance.

This is all about having fun with the sport of shooting. I have a lot to learn. However, I'm a shotgun guy first, a defensive pistol shooter second and a rifle guy next. I'm so busy between Trap and teaching CCW classes that I won't get to shoot the rifle as much as I'd like. Still, it's a fun journey.
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Old 01-14-2016, 11:25 PM
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I think your approach is a good one. Work your way out and familiarize yourself with your rifle. What works and what doesn't and what your rifle likes.

My M-308 scopes are designed specifically for for the 168 gr HPBT and I think that is why the reticule is limited to 800 yards, aside to the rifle design with a shorter than optimum barrel.

Both the 168 grain and 175grain bullets are the preferred rounds by snipers. I can certainly see where Irrifleman is coming deom with the heavier rounds for further out. The mass is needed to keep up the momentum and resist influence from atmospherics on the way to the target.
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Old 01-15-2016, 01:25 AM
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You also have to work within the twist parameters of your rifle.

In the 223, the 1:9 can handle up to 72gr out to about 600 yards. The 1:8 or 1:7 can handle up to 80gr out to about 1000 yards, as long as you load a bit hot to keep the bullet supersonic at the target.

In the 30s, while a 1:12 is supposed to be better with 150gr and lighter bullets, my 308 bolt guns are tack drivers with 168s and 175s. The 1:11 is supposed to be a good compromise twist for 150gr to 168gr. The 1:10 is supposed to be perfect for 168s and 175s out to 1000.

In my 7mm Remington Magnum, I am limited by a 1:9.25, which limits me to 168s or lighter. My rifle would have greater heavy bullet flexibility with either a 1:9 or a 1:8.5.

I would suggest that you get a good bipod (I use a Versa Pod bipod), and suggest you get a solid 100 yard zero and chronograph your ammo, noting group size. Once you get a load with a standard deviation of 15 fps or less, and is shooting 1 minute or less, project your scope elevation adjustments out to 1000 yards. This can be done in maybe 3 or 4 range sessions. At this point you will be ready to learn in F class matches.
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Old 01-15-2016, 10:26 AM
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Then it's a happy circumstance that the M&P10 barrel is 1:10!

Thank you for the information. It may become useful to me in the future. Or at least out to 800 yards. If I can find a place flat enough here for that.
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Old 01-15-2016, 10:05 PM
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...suggest you get a solid 100 yard zero...
Why not a 200 yard zero? Or are you saying it's best to work on the load at 100 yards?
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Old 01-15-2016, 10:20 PM
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I use a 200yd zero on my Rem700 .308, but that's more about accommodating variable distances in the woods-- point and click. For precision shooting at paper using finger turret scope adjustments for dialing in known distances... zero?
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Old 01-15-2016, 10:31 PM
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Not sure what you're asking Phil?
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Old 01-15-2016, 11:04 PM
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Why not a 200 yard zero? Or are you saying it's best to work on the load at 100 yards?
I have a few reasons, but they would not be shared by many. I know that it would be preferable to develop loads at 200 and 300 yards. However, being disabled, I try to keep my shooting sessions fun and painless. Prior to my last surgery in September, standing and walking were extremely painful. I could walk maybe 15 yards before I had to stop and rest. My ACL, PCL, and LCL were destroyed and needed to be replaced. When I walked, it felt like a dozen double edged razor blades on edge in my knee. This last surgery was worth being on the table for 11 hours.

My other reason is actually rather practical. I have a confirmed table of elevation corrections for each of my F class rifles. In the event that the scopes get jarred prior to a match, or they need to visit an armorers van for repairs, I can generally get to a 100 yard range to confirm my zero.

Plus, I "cheat" when I do my load development. I take a sheet of 1/4" grid paper and put 4 or 5 1" shoot-n-c pasters on the paper that I use as my aiming reference point. My testing goal is to keep each 3-5 shot group within a 2-3 grid square area, focusing more on my vertical dispersion than the horizontal dispersion. I find that if my loads perform as expected at 100 yards, they generally perform as desired at distance.
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Old 01-15-2016, 11:24 PM
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This isn't a .308 AR but pretty darn impressive. A pretty much stock Remington 700 in .308 Winchester shooting a milk jug at 1500 yards.

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Old 01-15-2016, 11:28 PM
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And here is an AR-10 at 1000 yards.

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Old 01-16-2016, 12:34 AM
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I have a few reasons, but they would not be shared by many.
Oh no, you don't get to back out now. If I'm going to us an 18" barrel, you need to share your reasons. Even if they're not conventional, I still want to hear it.

I'm a big fan of trust but verify. I listen to all suggestions. I'll try those that make sense and keep what works for me. So, yeah, I want to hear it. Who knows, maybe I'll use your technique.
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Old 01-16-2016, 12:42 AM
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I would suggest that you get a good bipod...
I forgot this before.

This is my bipod for the moment:


Yeah, it's low-tech, but very stable.
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Old 01-16-2016, 01:44 PM
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Not sure what you're asking Phil?
For distance precision paper punching what difference does the zero make as long as you know what it is? I can zero my .308 at any distance, 100 150 200..... whatever. But as long as I know what the zero is, sight to bore, muzzle velocity and the distance I'm currently shooting at... 300 400 500 600.... whatever. I just dial it in with the scope. In contrast, for a general hunting gun in the woods a specific zero wouldbe considered for point and click shooting.

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Old 01-17-2016, 01:27 AM
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Long story short, the guys that shoot 1000 yds do not use an AR10 platform. The gun was not made for that.

The military, who has shot a few more than me, lists max effective range at around 600 yds. for a M110 which is their sniper support weapon.

The guys that shoot beyond that have better stuff than you, and they also live on a different planet. They do not speak ghetto trash.

For the price of a MP10, you can buy a Savage in 338 Lapua!
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Old 01-17-2016, 11:27 AM
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The guys that shoot beyond that have better stuff than you, and they also live on a different planet.
Really? Just what do I have? And, I'm not concerned with aliens. I like to keep my feet firmly planted on Earth.

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They do not speak ghetto trash.
Who exactly is speaking "ghetto trash"? Besides you that is. I've been nothing but respectful here.

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For the price of a MP10, you can buy a Savage in 338 Lapua!
Yeah and you can pay $5/round to shoot it too. The cost of the rifle is insignificant compared to the cost of the ammo if you actually get out and shoot. I was considering a rifle in .300Win Mag, but .308Win is a lot less expensive both in dollars and felt recoil.

So, what do you use? Considering your expertise, I'm very interested to hear what combination you use.
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Old 01-17-2016, 11:58 AM
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Oh no, you don't get to back out now. If I'm going to us an 18" barrel, you need to share your reasons. Even if they're not conventional, I still want to hear it.

I'm a big fan of trust but verify. I listen to all suggestions. I'll try those that make sense and keep what works for me. So, yeah, I want to hear it. Who knows, maybe I'll use your technique.
I wasn't backing out of explaining. The two major reasons that I establish a solid 100 yard zero are:
1. My leg injuries make a hike beyond 100 yards almost unbearable, and between pasting or replacing targets, it becomes overwhelming.
2. Should I ever encounter en route damage and have to visit an armorers van, I can generally gain access to a 100 yard range to confirm my zero.

With the charts that I keep, and my zeros, I can dial in whatever distance I am at, since I shoot on KD ranges. Additionally, I now count down from my 100 yard zero until my elevation dial bottoms out, so I can reestablish my 100 yard zero.
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Old 01-17-2016, 12:15 PM
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Long story short, the guys that shoot 1000 yds do not use an AR10 platform. The gun was not made for that.

The military, who has shot a few more than me, lists max effective range at around 600 yds. for a M110 which is their sniper support weapon.

The guys that shoot beyond that have better stuff than you, and they also live on a different planet. They do not speak ghetto trash.

For the price of a MP10, you can buy a Savage in 338 Lapua!
I agree, the AR platform was not designed for 1000 yard shooting. That said, I would suggest that you might consider visiting Camp Perry during the long range matches. For each of the past 3 years, I have seen members of the Army Marksmanship Unit and the Marine Corps Rifle Team using Mk110s on the 1000 yard line, doing quite well.

Yes, I am building an AR platform in 223 for 1000 yards, and this is motivated by physical injuries. Yes, I know that I am handicapping myself, but it allows me to return to a sport that I love. Yes, I could probably use a 338 Lapua at 1000 yards (under existing rules), but line etiquette would discourage that, plus the cost of that ammo discourages significant amounts of practice. Additionally, what is the target accuracy life of a 338 Lapua barrel versus the hunting accuracy life?

Sometimes, you just have to make due with what you have.
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Old 01-17-2016, 12:33 PM
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@Rastoff,

About this time last year, I was having difficulty getting my Remington 700 in 308 to group well at the 1000 yard line. I managed to get a good deal on a Remington 700 Long Range in 7mm Remington Magnum. The recoil sensation was a bit more than a 30-06, but significantly less than a 300 Win Mag. Match accuracy barrel life should be between 1200 and 1500 rounds.

I ultimately discovered that Remington's quality control has fallen. I discovered that the 700 Long Range left the factory with an extremely rough chamber, that required the assistance of a 2x4 to extract the first hundred rounds or so. After that experience, I guaged the throat of the 308, and discovered a very long leade was being used at Remington. I now have to load my 308s about 0.040" long to get acceptable accuracy.

I strongly suggest that you keep a small notebook tracking the number of rounds you put through your rifle, so you can track the barrel's accuracy life. It will help you to determine when you have to replace the barrel.
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Old 01-17-2016, 01:44 PM
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I strongly suggest that you keep a small notebook tracking the number of rounds you put through your rifle, so you can track the barrel's accuracy life. It will help you to determine when you have to replace the barrel.
I'm way ahead of you brother. I already keep track of every round through every gun I own. For example: I have 15,163 rounds through my favorite Trap gun. Of course it's a shotgun so, I don't have to worry about wearing out the barrel.

To aid in the learning process, I intend on keeping accurate records of my rifle shooting to evaluate every outing. I can take pictures of the targets and analyze the groups with software. Some say this is going overboard. Meh, it's just how I'm built.

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I wasn't backing out of explaining.
I apologize. I thought you might have something more toward the mechanics of shooting. I understand your physical limitations. At my local range we can drive to the target boards to set/examine the targets. The only drawback is the longest target is 300 yards.
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Old 01-17-2016, 01:52 PM
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Unless you are just banging Buick-sized steel at distances of 1000 yards (or thereabouts) a gas-driven .308 is going to find it hard to be competitive.

Yes, a .308 gas gun will fling lead 1000 yards with a fair degree of accuracy.

Fair.

If you want PRECISE, you need to make a different selection.
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Old 01-18-2016, 02:12 AM
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Really? Just what do I have? And, I'm not concerned with aliens. I like to keep my feet firmly planted on Earth.

Who exactly is speaking "ghetto trash"? Besides you that is. I've been nothing but respectful here.

Yeah and you can pay $5/round to shoot it too. The cost of the rifle is insignificant compared to the cost of the ammo if you actually get out and shoot. I was considering a rifle in .300Win Mag, but .308Win is a lot less expensive both in dollars and felt recoil.

So, what do you use? Considering your expertise, I'm very interested to hear what combination you use.
Rastoff, don't take me all wrong here. What I am saying it that it seems to me that most the guys that shoot that class are elitists. They drop more on glass than my whole rig and another costs! Very specialized hand loaded ammo tuned to the gun. Gotta clean the bore every few shots, yada, yada yada.

It is a science into itself. It is not for me.

If I was going to push a .308, I would just buy a Savage heavy with a Mc millan stock. They just work, otherwise a different caliber.

I think you can get decent glass under a grand in a couple of cases nowadays.

I do not even want to packmule the rig around, just too much.

I like to shoot more and work less. Put them away dirty and maybe spend time drinking beer!

I have a cheap AR that cuts the best group my 10 has done in half. Still working on custom loads for the 10, but it is down the ladder on the fun list.
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Old 01-18-2016, 11:45 AM
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Yes, a .308 gas gun will fling lead 1000 yards with a fair degree of accuracy.

Fair.

If you want PRECISE, you need to make a different selection.
Not picking on you W.E.G., but this is a common statement.

So, why is this? I mean, there's a lot that goes into accuracy, but why can't a gas gun be as accurate as a bolt gun?
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Old 01-18-2016, 12:11 PM
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Rastoff,

Historically, semi-auto rifles have been a degree less accurate than bolt guns. The reason is usually attributed to the fact that gas is bled off to operate the action, and the action cycles before the bullet leaves the barrel. That is a major reason why there are two divisions in high power rifle competitions: service rifle and match rifle. These divisions are offered in virtually every NRA match.

This is not to say that service rifles are inaccurate. Match tuned M14s and M1As (and now ARs) tend to dominate in NRA matches, except long range. Across the course, semi-autos have the advantage of magazine feed versus stripper clip reloads. In an 800 point aggregate for a long range match, a service rifle will typically fall 15-20 points behind the winning match rifle scores.
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Old 01-18-2016, 04:24 PM
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Specifically, which DPMS did you purchase?
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Old 01-18-2016, 08:40 PM
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I did not buy a DPMS. I bought a DPMS pattern lower.

The AR10 or LR308 is not a "standardized" rifle like the AR15. Consequently, not all AR style lowers/uppers will fit with each other.

I will post all the details once it shows up and I have it built.
Don't you just love a cliff hanger?
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Old 01-19-2016, 01:03 AM
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Default NRA long distance school using BOX STOCK S&W M&P 10's

Here is a good article I found showing the distance capabilities of the M&P 10. Notice that it mentions using decent glass: 4-14x40.

These are average shooters shooting BOX STOCK M&P 10's to 1000 yards using Hornady 168 grain Sierra Matchking, and 175 grain matchkings out to 1400 yards.

These are not match groups, but they are minute of man at 1000 yards. I think the plate they show is 15 x 15 inches.

https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/100...-wesson-mp-10/

This particular course is held at several NRA schools - Utah, Texas, and New Mexico. The cost is $2300, and covers lodging, meals, the use of rifle, and ammo.
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Old 02-10-2016, 04:50 PM
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Google this from GunsAmerica: 1,000 YARDS WITH A STOCK .308 AR-15 STYLE M&P MODEL 10?
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Old 02-10-2016, 11:19 PM
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Interesting! So, it is definitely possible!
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Old 02-11-2016, 09:30 AM
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Google this from GunsAmerica: 1,000 YARDS WITH A STOCK .308 AR-15 STYLE M&P MODEL 10?
Here's the link to that article: https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/100...-wesson-mp-10/
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Old 02-13-2016, 12:36 AM
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I did not buy a DPMS. I bought a DPMS pattern lower.
The lower showed up yesterday. It was not built correctly and I sent it back today. They promised me a new one by next week.

I hate returning new things. Alas, sometimes it's necessary.
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Old 02-26-2016, 01:31 AM
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I will post all the details once it shows up and I have it built.
Don't you just love a cliff hanger?
As promised here it is:



It is a JT-10 from Juggernaut Tactical. I thought the lower was not built right, but it turns out we just had a different way of looking at things. Also, should anyone here decide to build an AR-10, the lower parts are different. I thought they would be the same as an AR-15; they're not. The take down and pivot pins are longer and the bolt catch is different. So, the parts kit I had on hand didn't work and I had to wait a few more days for the right kit to arrive.

The barrel is 18", fluted with a 1:10 twist.
I used a POF cartridge type trigger; 4.5lb pull.
The stock is a Magpul PRS with adjustable LOP and cheek rest.
On top is a Vortex Viper PST 4-16x50 with EBR(mrad) FFP reticle.

At 11lbs exactly, it is not light, but it's not meant to be. The trigger is OK. While it's much better than a typical Mil-Spec, it could be better. It is crisp, but does have a tiny bit of noticeable creep. Until I shoot it, I won't know just how well it really performs.

I will try to get out this weekend and put some rounds through it. I don't have the correct dies for my press yet so, I'll have to run factory loads. Who knows, they may do well.
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Old 02-29-2016, 12:08 AM
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Got out to shoot it today. Only shot at 50 yards to get the scope on paper. Was able to put up some three shot 1/2" groups. Not impressive, but OK for my first time out and using cheap loads.
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Old 03-05-2016, 09:51 PM
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Probably no one following this anymore. Meh, I'll keep it updated on how the new gun is working.

My friend and I got to the range today and zeroed at 200 yards. Here is my final three-shot group on paper:


I know it's not impressive, but keeping it under 1MOA for the first time at 200 yards is good for me.

After we got the guns zeroed, we had some fun by ringing a steel plate they have set up at 200 and 300 yards. The plates are 12" square. It was fun for me to be able to dial in the scope at 300, after zeroing at 200, and pinging the steel dead center with the first shot. Rang it a few more times and then set the scope back to 0 and pinged the 200 yard steel three or four more times.

This is a super fun gun and has not disappointed. Now to head out to the desert to find some longer targets.
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Old 03-05-2016, 11:28 PM
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I'm impressed with your group. I can get that size with my Rem 700VSS .308, but not with any of my semi-autos. Well done!
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Old 04-04-2016, 05:40 PM
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I just found this thread. Thanks Rastoff for posting this and keeping use posted. It looks like you skill with other firearms is carrying over to rifle as well.
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Old 04-05-2016, 01:31 AM
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Still have a long way to go. My next outing will hopefully be at 500 yards. Just have to find the space.
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