Just bought this rifle its the camo 811312. Brought
Hornady a max 168 , Federal gold metal match 168 and Winchester power point 180 . Could not get any one of these to group , changed scopes and bought more ammo 175 gn. Nosler shot around 2 in. The A max shot around 2 to 3 in. Seems as if it would stack 2 then have a flier. Bought some Nosler 125 gn. Thinking it would be a disaster in a 1-10 barrel but damn it shot a 1/2 in. Group .But the bolt would not come back enough to pick up another round . Took it down and cleaned the bolt and carrier and soaked them in oil . Fired 6 rounds fairly rapid and it functioned great except for holding bolt open on empty mag. But the 6 round group were all touching but 2 . I have called S&W they were going to take a look at it , that's before I shot the 125's . So what do you guys suggest ? I Bought this thang to hunt deer and boar with and wanted to shoot heaver bullets but I don't like to hunt with inaccurate rifles.

Mine shoots 168 grain well enough but I really haven't had much time to mess with it before I dislocated my shoulder to advise on grouping. It seemed ok with iron sights at 100 yards. About the grouping you are talking about.

I got a scope mounted and but had scope problems and haven't had a chance to zero it since I got the replacement back from Nikon.

It also seemed to shoot pretty well with 149 grain NATO ball and PMC 147 grain ammo but again, that is bulk ammo and it was with iron sights. So, from internet reviews, I know it can shoot well but I haven't had a chance to prove it with mine for myself.

Concerning the bolt hold open, was it just the 125 grain rounds or was it also with the 168 and 180 grain rounds?

If with all three, it sounds like a magazine issue. If just the 125 grain, it shouldn't be short stroking because the bullet is lighter unless it was a 7.62 NATO round. Some people have had issues with short stroking because the powder charge is less and the rifle is built around the .308 Winchester cartridge. They solved the problem by opening up the gas port with the next larger drill bit size.

Let us know what S&W says.

Only happens with the 125 gn.nosler bt . But I can live with that as long as it feeds ok. Since I'm using it to hunt . I'm going to do more testing and if it feeds well and maintains the outstanding accuracy I may not send it back. I was just amazed that it didn't shoot the 168 and 170 match bullets without at least one flier every 3 rounds. Aguilla 150 shot better than federal gold metal match 168 gn. And Nosler custom comp. 175 gn.

@willie,

I do not have an AR10, but I do have a number of rifles that I use in high power competition. I have a similar problem with a Remington 700 ADL Varmint. Normally, I would not say it is your ammo, but your experience with the Nosler 125s is the fly in the ointment.

A 1:10" barrel should shoot the heavier bullets quite well. The M1MkII I have, along with my M1A have 1:10 barrels, and shoot 1 MOA on a regular basis. My Remington 700 ADL Varmint shoots a 175 consistently into about a 4 minute group, which is not acceptable. I took a Stoney Point style C.O.L tool and measured the leade (bullet jump to the rifling) of my Remington, and discovered that it is very long.

It shocked me to find that this rifle, which I built to be an F class rifle, would not shoot ammo loaded to the SAAMI standard of 2.800", which is magazine length. In order for my rifle to shoot anything close to 1 MOA, I have to load my ammo about 0.040" over SAAMI spec. In order to rectify this, especially if Remington doesn't correct the problem, I have to:
1. Re-barrel the rifle with a proper chamber/leade cut.
2. Have the barrel set back and have the chamber recut for a proper leade with either Sierra 175s or 168s.
3. Live with the current situation.
4. Sell the rifle.

Honestly, I have put a lot into this particular rifle, and I don't want to sell it, but I want it to shoot properly.

I would suggest that you measure the leade, or have a local 'smith measure it. A proper leade should be about 0.010" off of the selected bullet ogive. The greatest detriment to accuracy is excessive bullet jump.

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Thanks for the advice , it has some 6 to 8 in. fliers frequently I can't live with that . Since it's very new I'm going to talk with S&W tech support but I think you may be correct, I've checked the barrel nut and gas tube and visually everything I know.

Mine is very ammo sensitive as well. I believe it is a harmonics thing. You either find a load that works or build them yourself if you reload. A grain or two of powder makes a difference.

Might try some Austrailian Outback 165 Sierra if you can find it.

168 Amax reman from Freedom Munitions seems OK for mine.

I have experimented for a while now and not got your kind of groups with any of the heavier bullets that I have tried, but that is good to know!

I've already sent it back to S&W it's less than 2 weeks old , got tired of spending on ammo . Just got rid of my reloading equipment now I need it. My luck!!


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Willie,

When Smith returns your MP10, please share their findings. I am curious as to what they have to say.

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Judge control not gun control!

Will do .


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Yea, well good luck with all that!

I sent mine back to them and they sent it back with a picture of a 2.5 inch group from 50 yds. and said there was nothing wrong with it!

I'm getting those groups at 100 yds. That is not acceptable for a 1700.00 rifle. I certainly hope I do have better luck than you. I would get rid of all my S&Ws and never buy another . Of course that won't hurt them but I would feel better
This rifle will shoot 125 nosler ballistic tips great got one 3 shot 1/2 in group but the bolt would not cycle. If they say it's ok I'll open up the gas port myself and see what happens.

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I have the LEO M&P10 that comes with all the Magpul furniture. It Shoots the Australian Outback 165gr Game Kings and Hornady Superformance 165gr SST's very well. I also bought this rifle for deer hunting and couldn't be happier.

I've had my M&P 10 for close to 2 years now and have chased the grouping dream through about every possible upgrade trying to get mine to shoot. If you are a reloader, like myself there is hope. I found that mine is VERY picky when it comes to bullet weight. It won't shoot anything but 168 match bullet well. After years of load development I finally found a load that works well producing 1/2" groups @ 100 yards. I have also have a free float quad rail, Giesele trigger, pws flash suppressing compensator, Nikon monarch scope and shot all my load developement from a lead sled.

I can tell that I finally got mine to shoot but DO NOT recommend the M&P 10 to anyone. I know others have had success with theirs and that very well might be the case but don't confuse Internet MOA with real world MOA. I've heard guys preach about how thier gun is a tac driver and they are grouping 6" @ 100 yards. I assume those same people get to thier keyboards and talk about thier "sub MOA" rifles.

I have had a lot of other projects myself, but did manage to get mine down into the 1-1.25 moa range so far using the 168 Amax and 40.5 gr RL15 in commercial brass. I really do need a lead sled to offset poor stability, but?

I bought some Varget to play with as well, and BLC-2 and 4895 are on the list, as well as 175 gr bullets.

Just gotta run the ladders, and it takes a lot of time.

What is your magic recipe?

Varget is the powder that saved me from selling the gun. I couldn't get 180s to shoot worth a damn. I'll look when I get home tonight and see look at the load data I have wrote down.

Copemech I recognize your screen name as I feel we have danced the same dance with our M&P 10s. One thing I'd recommend to you is to change the goofy BS flash hider that comes stock. It very well may have been coincidence but after I changed mine I noticed my groups did tighten up.

I haven't had much ability to do anything with mine to find out for sure how good or bad it really is. I'm coming from the outlook that semi-automatic DI rifles are usually not MOA or sub-MOA rifles.

I'm hoping that isn't the case, hell I hope it shoot 3/8" groups at 100 yards with 168 grain match ammo like my MVP Patrol does and better yet, does it with the same ammunition my MVP has shot so well with. But I'm a realist and will figure out what shoots best out of the rifle once my shoulder is healed up and I can take it out.

What I have been able to do with it was with iron sights and PMC Bronze and it wasn't bad, considering the ammo and that I found out not long after that, that I needed more than reading glasses. If memory serves, I was doing about a 3-4" group at 100 yards with that ammo, aiming system, and vision quality. That was also before the trigger upgrade (Geissele), free floating the barrel, and mounting a .308 specific Nikon M-308 scope.

Here's hoping for the best but not holding my breath...

These things aren't bench rest guns.

3" groups at 100 yards are just fine.

Remember what you have.

You can spend a lot of $ fussing with these and never get bench rest results.

They are ammo sensitive, but for your purposes your rifle is fine as is.

Spend your money on ammo, not gun mods.

For hunting deer, I believe you will be just fine with a 2" group. I have never hunted hogs .

I was going to say the same. Unless youre hunting squirrels from 600 yards you don't need sub moa or even moa to hunt. That animal isn't going to know the difference. The most popular deer rifle in history isn't even close to moa

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I can't speak for every DI rifle but generally they are moa capable

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Yes, I have been around here for a while now. I had a ton of issues at first and have seen all the others.

I got this overpriced toy thinking I could do a bit of longer range shooting. I know what it is and do not have unrealistic expectations. I expect about 1.5 moa out of a standard AR with standard ammo and I would expect something similar here. Right off the bat, it would not cycle properly with Nato spec ammo? Some of those groups looked like a shotgun hit the target!

S&w's answer- Oh, you have to use American hunting loads! BS, the rifle is undergassed. Enlarge your port to .073-.075 from the .068-fixed.

I am on my third muzzle device. With or without made little difference to accuracy for me.

Even expensive ammo like Fed GMM was not great. Maybe 2moa and nothing to write home about. My old 1979 Colt AR will do that with open sights if I have a good day.

This is the first rifle I ever put a 14x scope on so I can see what I am missing!

Here is another option for a .30 cal AR. If you already have an AR15 in 5.56, you can buy JUST a .300 blackout upper and BAM you've got a .30 cal AR. I had the .30 cal itch and bought an upper at a gunshow and am very happy with it. You don't even have to buy different magazines. Cool stuff. No, it's not a .308, but it is punching the same size hole in something. I think I paid around $400 for the upper with all parts so it's ready to install. It takes less than sixty seconds to swap it over.

The M&P10 does have the reputation of being accurate and being able to hit targets out at 700+ yards. There is even video to prove it has done with a basically stock rifle.

On here, it seems to be hit or miss. People either got a great rifle or did not. Now, I can't say that everyone one who has reported problems on here were not the problem themselves for one reason or another. I don't know their capabilities or lack of capability and it isn't my place to judge that, especially since I was not there to see them shoot or even met anyone on here in person.

I do know the accuracy reputation of AR rifles in general and it is generally around 1.5 MOA, some better, some worse. The basic design is based on a combat weapon system that has the average foot soldier in mind and the expectation of "Minute of Man" at about 300 yards or less with military ball ammunition.

This view is not meant to be disparaging of the forum members, the AR platform itself, nor Smith & Wesson in anyway. Just a comment on the AR in general.


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I constantly shoot 1 MOA groups at 100 and 200 yards, and 1/2 MOA on good days. It likes the Federal Sierra Match King 168 and Hornady 168 and 175 match, but I can get MOA with PPU 168, 165, and 175. Even with American Eagle 150. I credit my Geissele trigger, AP Custom carbon fiber free float handguard. I recently switched from a Surefire to a Little ******* brake with great improvement. Picked up the gun I think 18 months ago for $1299, so lots of room for upgrades. The goal is 500-1000 yards. Unless something is wrong, the gun is awesome. GunsAmerica has an article with a stock 10 hitting 1000 yards. Don't blame the gun, unless there is a mechanical issue.

I'm hoping mine will be like yours but with Remington 168 Match since that is what my bolt gun seems to like best. The bolt gun shoots Federal Sierra Match King pretty well but likes Remington better.

I've done similar upgrades like you have, so I'm hoping my experience is as good as yours.

I'm enjoying my basically stock (Wilson TTU trigger & updated Magpul furniture) scoped M&P 10. It definitely likes Sierra 165 BTHP bullets in front of IMR-4064. Shot a 0.625" benched 100 yard 5 shot group a couple days ago. Out of 20 rounds (four 5 round groups) the worst group was 1.250". I freely admit I was having a good day LOL. Ladder loaded some 178 A-Max - groups not as good. Hope this info helps.

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Just got my rifle back from S&W , They installed a new barrel but did not inform me of what they found . The groups are much better , no fliers but 1" is the best I've shot most hunting loads will stay within 2" at 100 which will be good for deer and hogs. I also installed a Geissele trigger and was hoping for better results . But I'm still trying quality hunting ammo hoping to find what it likes .


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2" with a hunting load is not bad out of an AR. One can always hope for better. I'm hoping for the same when I get a change to run some rounds through mine and see what it does. For one reason or another, I haven't gotten a chance to take it out since I got the upgrades done on mine.

I'm hoping for 3/8" with match loads like my bolt rifle does and with the same rounds my bolt rifle likes (one can dream, right).

Well, good luck on your search and I hope you get at least close to where you want to be.