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Old 08-24-2020, 04:45 PM
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Default How can I improve my 100 yard groups?

Iím relatively new to my rifle and havenít shot for many years. I was at an outdoor range today and was able to bench shoot at 100 yards (attempting to zero my rifle).

I have an M&P 10 Sport with a 4x Trijicon LED ACOG (TA110-D-100502) and an Atlas Bipod. Iím using Speer Gold Dot 168 grain ammunition.

Attached is a picture of one of my 5 round groups. Should I be happy with rounds into the 10 ring at 100 yards or is there a way to improve my groupings? I make an effort to fire during an exhale pause and I have a good site picture. Maybe not great with 52 year old eyes.

For perspective, the center orange circle of the targets is about the size of a quarter.
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Old 08-24-2020, 04:59 PM
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Certainly looks like you're on the right track. Nice shooting using a 4x optic. More time pulling the trigger to get used to your rifle will help a great deal.
If you are interested in learning to shoot from different positions, other than from a benchrest, see if you can find a CMP group in your area. I have found those shooters to be very willing to help a new shooter out learning shooting from different positions. Marksmanship will then carry over to other shooting types.
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Old 08-24-2020, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mckenney99 View Post
Certainly looks like you're on the right track. Nice shooting using a 4x optic. More time pulling the trigger to get used to your rifle will help a great deal.
Thank you for taking the time to reply. Most of my other groups were pretty close to the same. I was consistently in the 10 ring all day but that stupid orange circle eluded every shot I fired!

Im going to try a different target next time - maybe even just a paper plate with a colored dot / circle in the middle. I have a hard time with the black crosshairs and the black background and the illuminated crosshairs covering the orange center. Overall I shot tighter groups with the crosshairs illuminated (as in the attached picture).

You can barely see In the picture my previous group (unilluminated crosshairs) covered with the black target dots. I didnít make any changes to my optic and my next group (illuminated crosshairs) was shifted somewhat.

Is the group I posted good enough to consider my rifle / optic zeroed? Iíll certainly continue to try to improve.

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Old 08-24-2020, 05:40 PM
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I agree, trigger time is the best fix. If it just wonít get better, maybe try a different trigger.
After installing a Giessele trigger my groups shrank noticeably.
They could be found on sale for under $200 a while ago. Not sure about now.
There are others that will be better than factory.
Factory AR triggers are not known for the best performance.
As far as being zeroed, it looks like it could go left an inch or two
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Old 08-24-2020, 05:40 PM
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Drop in a high end trigger that is absolutely crisp...... unless that can be smithed.
Good shootin.

Oh... and get your pulse beat into the 40s.
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Old 08-24-2020, 05:55 PM
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You have a good start with that target. The gun may need a few dozen rounds through it to settle down and be more consistent.

Different targets may help. Birchwood-Casey EZE-SCORER Paper target with a white background will let you see your opticís lines better. Notice that once you are zeroed on the large center bullseye, you have four others to use on the same target.

Loading pressure on a bi-pod must be exactly the same every time. That is difficult to do. Maybe remove the bi-pod and get some front and rear sand bags. Less expensive bpís may not be as consistent as the expensive ones.

Try two other brands of ammo, maybe even different bullet weights.

Clean your barrel.

Dry fire practice to get to know your trigger.

Be sure to follow throughóhold the trigger to the rear until after the gun settles from recoil back onto the target. Donít lift your head.

Make sure, even with bags, that you have a comfortable, natural point of aim position. Donít muscle the gun onto the target. NPOA every shot. Look it up.
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Old 08-24-2020, 05:57 PM
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If you are shooting a brand new rifle..................

the barrel needs to be broken in first, before it will start to settle down and start giving better groups.

As mentioned, right now just get to learn the new trigger and get your breathing down to where the sights are not, all over the place.

If using a rest, use the stock, not the barrel for better groups.

Have fun.
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Old 08-24-2020, 05:58 PM
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What improves my bench rest groups in no particular order:
1) Make sure your bags/rests are stable and allow easy adjustment.
2) Pick targets that "fit" your sighting systems. Sometimes I get smaller groups with a larger bullseye. Experiment a bit.
3) Remember breath control is very important.
4) Trigger control is very important. Also the stock triggers on most ARs are pretty bad. The Giessele trigger mentioned above is my favorite.
5) Do not expect accuracy if you are shooting M855 "green tip".
6) Make sure your sighting system is squared away. No lose stuff! Do you need to loctite stuff?
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Old 08-24-2020, 06:10 PM
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Snidely,

Welcome to the forum! The target that you posted shows potential, but what you haven't shared speaks volumes. I am approaching this from the perspective of a high power rifle competitor with almost 20 years shooting service rifle, and about 7 years shooting F class.

The following information can fill in a number of blanks:
1) are you shooting factory ammo or handloads?
2) what weight bullet and shape are you shooting?
3) what degree of accuracy are you expecting?
4) how far out are you looking to be able to shoot?
5) are you looking to shoot paper targets or steel?

The most important characteristic that you should be looking for in your ammo is repeatable consistency. There are some handloading tricks that you could try to incorporate, but you will always be limited by magazine length if you wish to feed from a magazine.

I look forward to hearing what you are shooting and what your intentions are!
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Old 08-24-2020, 08:00 PM
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What I have been doing since this primer shortage is taking my time reloading and studying all the tips that I can.

1 use the same mfg. brass
2. weigh each bullet and use all the same weight
3. use a powder trickler for exact loads.
4 prep brass exactly the same
5. consistent seating, crimping

every little thing you can do helps a little but they all add up.

I just started loading and experimenting with .223 loads and have learned alot about centerfire loading. My most accurate load to date I found is 20gr of 4198 with 52gr barnes with a 20" - 1:9 twist, it just not strong enough to cycle in my AR but 3 touching holes on some groups at 100yd , I got there the usual way by experimenting and being consistent.
The primer shortage has slowed down my centerfire shooting but has help me tune my rounds.
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Old 08-24-2020, 09:07 PM
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FYI—Snidely is shooting an AR 10. It’s a .308.
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Old 08-24-2020, 10:06 PM
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That group doesn't look bad. Time at the bench and practicing the fundamentals can get the group tighter. Keep in mind that each rifle can tend to have a particular preference for a brand of ammunition it likes best in a given bullet weight. Some will eat anything you put in it and shoot it pretty well. The only way to figure that out is try different brands of ammunition but only after you've gotten the maximum potential out of yourself first. You are going to be the most inaccurate part of the firearm.


Control your breathing.


Pull the trigger at the same point in your breathing. If you fell more comfortable letting your breath out before taking the shot, do that. If you feel more comfortable at letting out half a breath, do that.


Practice your trigger pull. Slow and smooth. Don't anticipate the shot.


Practice your follow through. Don't release the trigger until the rifle settles down after the shot.


Do everything the same way every time and adjust one thing at a time to isolate what works and what is causing accuracy problems.
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Old 08-26-2020, 03:03 PM
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Thank you to everyone who took the time to reply to my post. I appreciate all the good advice and suggestions that were posted. This is exactly the information I was looking for and Iím grateful you guys would take the time to help.

Jessie - I never gave thought to a trigger being an improvement. Thatís something I will think about. I would adjust my optic left a few clicks but my group just before this one was scattered around the center ring (you can barely see them covered in the picture I posted).

I wasnít at all happy with that target. I think Iím going to try a 2 inch circle on some beige construction paper next time. The black part of this target was not allowing me see my reticle clearly.

Imissedagain - working on the pulse rate. LOL
I havenít really shot in years and Iím having a lot of fun. Firearms enthusiasts online and at my local range couldnít be a more friendly and helpful group. Itís a pleasure to be a part of the shooting community.

CB3 - Some great points; thank you. Trying some different ammo never occurred to me. I was using the Speer Gold Dot ammo due to its good performance reputation via the Dr Roberts ďBest Choices For Self Defense AmmoĒ site. I was hoping that using the same ammo might give me consistency but it never occurred to me that my particular rifle might not like that particular brand of ammo. Reading up on NPOA.

NevadaEd, Iím using an Atlas bipod and shouldering the stock normally. Is there something I should be doing differently? Iím trying to shoot from the bench as close to as I would in ďthe real worldĒ. Left hand holding hand guard (just forward of the magazine well) and right hand on pistol grip.

White cloud - All good advice, thank you. Iíll review that all next time I shoot. The ACOG is finger tightened (factory mount, not the quick release model) and then a quarter turn more with a screwdriver. Iím not sure if I should or where I would locktite?

lrrifleman - Iím using factory Speer Gold Dot 168 grain ammunition. My original intent for this rifle was as a medium to medium-long range battle rifle but this thing weighs a ton - no way I could realistically replace an M4 or AR15 type rifle with this. I enjoy it as a range gun and will keep it to use if the Russians / Chinese / Middle Eastern / peaceful protestor hordes ever invade my state. 😀
Hopefully I could get a few at Respectable range before they get to shotgun range and Iím overwhelmed.
Seriously, Iím not sure what kind of accuracy I should be expecting. With my 4 power ACOG and this rifle should I be hitting the center red spot consistently or should I be happy with shots in the 10 ring? I have no idea what is considered good.

Tomahawk223 / CB3 - Correct, I am shooting factory .308 ammunition.

Sgtsandman - Thank you for those tips. Great advice and I appreciate it. I was an 11B1P 30 years ago (man, kinda wishing I hadnít done that math just now, LOL) so Iím not completely a newbie but time has eroded my shooting skills. Actually, my last range trip with my old Colt Sporter (carry handle / iron sights) at 50 yards had a group slightly better than the picture I posted above. I was pleased with that given my old eyes / iron sights and years of not shooting. Fort Benningís Infantry School (AKA: School of Negotiation and Advanced Conflict Resolution) did right by me with regard to basic shooting skills.

Again, the advice and suggestions here are a huge help and Iím greatfull for everyoneís help. Thank you.
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Old 08-26-2020, 03:17 PM
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That bullet has a lot of kick. A 10 power scope will cut the group 1/2. I would use a lighter bullet for under 200y.
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Old 08-26-2020, 03:30 PM
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Lots of good advice.........

If you want maximum (range) target accuracy ..... get a target scope. Think 10X and up with thin crosshairs.......

The ACOG is a battle sight.......

I was on my HighSchool and College Rifle Teams...... let the rifle break in... take your time and.......... practice practice practice........


Edit when shooting off a bench (bags) my left hand is supporting/ lightly cupping my right elbow..... points of contact are bag, shooting hand, cheek and shoulder.

Edit: The M&P 10 Sport is not intended to be a high end sniper/target rifle......... my WAG is you should expect at best 1-2" groups at 100 with ammo the gun likes. Though you could get lucky.

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Old 08-26-2020, 04:00 PM
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Exclamation S&W Mdl 10 .308Win

Welcome to the Best Smith & Wesson Forum. Accept no Substitutes.

I like the 308Win. I think you have a very nice Rifle there.
I read you are using a Bipod. Bipods and I have never got
along. There seems to be different harmonics/jump when
a round goes off.

With my AR .223Rem, one time I was so upset, I got a Foldgers
Red Plastic Coffee container out of my Pickup, put it on the
Bench, laid the forearm guard on it, held it in place with my
fingers making a "C" and steadying, with the rest of fingers
on the container.

The target group was smaller, but I knew I could do better.
Same thing happen with my Rem Mdl 7 .308.

What made a huge difference in the AR, was putting in a better
Single Stage 4 pound trigger, it broke like glass.

Those two things shrunk my target groups. Just my experience
and thoughts.

Thank you for sharing your Range Report and Picture.

The Best to you and Endeavors with the M&P10
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Old 08-26-2020, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snidely Whiplash View Post
lrrifleman - Iím using factory Speer Gold Dot 168 grain ammunition. My original intent for this rifle was as a medium to medium-long range battle rifle but this thing weighs a ton - no way I could realistically replace an M4 or AR15 type rifle with this. I enjoy it as a range gun and will keep it to use if the Russians / Chinese / Middle Eastern / peaceful protestor hordes ever invade my state. 😀
Hopefully I could get a few at Respectable range before they get to shotgun range and Iím overwhelmed.
Seriously, Iím not sure what kind of accuracy I should be expecting. With my 4 power ACOG and this rifle should I be hitting the center red spot consistently or should I be happy with shots in the 10 ring? I have no idea what is considered good.

.
Snidely, all is not lost. Think F class Mid-range! Mid-range engages targets at 300, 500, and 600 yards. The aiming black is the same as the targets used for across the course, but the scoring rings are half the diameter.

You would have to do two MINOR changes to your rifle to be able to shoot the F T/R (target/rifle) category. First, you would need a bipod. A Harris is the least expensive, or you could go to a boutique bipod that could cost upwards of $400. I use a VersaPod, which cost about a hundred and a quarter. I am not familiar with the ACOG, but I know that I haven't seen any on the line over the past five years! Here, fleabay can be your friend. I use an old El Paso Weaver T10 at 600 yards with a custom upper AR15. Now that my eyes have been fixed (cataract surgery), I am improving my ammo and on the road to a Sharpshooter classification. Theoretically, I could have an Expert classification by next fall.

Ammo - I am not familiar with the Speer 168gr Gold Dot, but keep in mind that the Federal Gold Medal Match is the gold standard for accuracy!

Do you plan on reloading? If so, focus on 168gr HPBT bullets moving at about 2550 fps. You may have to fiddle with seating depth to improve accuracy, and you may have to single feed your ammo.

A good add-on would be to get a bunny bag (rabbit ear bag) to secure your stock.

With this type of setup, you should be able to expect a bit tighter than 1 minute of angle accuracy at 600 yards, which should keep you in the ten ring.
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Old 08-26-2020, 04:04 PM
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A crisp trigger is paramount to precision shooting.
Weight can be debated.
There are other factors as well but your targets look like that would be a start.

Pic is of Weaver T36 which they said is safe to 375 H&H ammo's recoil. Thin crosshair reticle version.
Bullet holes visible at 100 yds... light target/darker berm.
Newer T36 price gets you up near the fixed power Leupolds last time I looked.

The Weaver is swapped between the No.1V/1:12 and the newer Colt in 223/5.56.
The Colt in the middle is my boy's and he and his Gunnery Sergeant/Machinist buddy rarely missed at 300 yds with the irons... well the Marine for sure.

One ragged hole is the goal.
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Old 08-26-2020, 06:24 PM
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Ditch the bipod and just rest handguards on something like
your range back, with a folded up towel on top.

Read up on marksmanship and learn to breathe on the
shot. Manage your abilities before spending money on
optics, replacement triggers, etc. Buying a Stratocaster
and Marshall stack won't make you play like Jimi Hendrix.
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Old 08-26-2020, 07:00 PM
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If you aren't born with the God given natural talent to be a rifleman ... then it's going to take Practice .

My Dad told me a few riflemen are born with the ability... but most have to get good the hard way...lots of practice .
His other saying was " Practice makes Perfect" and "You have to pay your dues to get good ."

Keep at it and with determination and practice you will develop into a good rifleman ... it just takes a little time , don't despair .
Learning proper breathing control and proper trigger control are very important .
My biggest aide were a properly done target trigger job by a world class gunsmith shop . (Clark Custom Guns)
The target trigger makes all the difference !
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Old 08-26-2020, 10:09 PM
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I noted you said you have an Atlas bipod, that is a pretty good bipod. There isn't many that are better. Bipods can be a blessing and a detriment at the same time. The Atlas eliminates some of them.


Best accuracy with a bipod is to make sure it has good footing and push on the buttstock of the rifle to lean into the bipod. Doing that consistently, like everything else in shooting, is key.


From one veteran to another, thank you for your service.


I didn't mean to make you sound like an ignorant newb if I came across that way. Sometimes it's best to just start at the beginning and go from there.


As far as the conversation about triggers and pull weights. A good trigger does make a big difference. As far as the pull weight, that is going to be up to the individual. Two other rifles I have came with 3 pound trigger pulls from the factory. Others would probably feel comfortable with that and see no problem. I felt it was too light for a multipurpose rifle and adjusted the weight up to 4 pounds. It just felt too light to me. For my M&P10, I installed a Geissele SSA 4.5 pound trigger. It still feels light and the pull is very smooth and crisp.


There are other makes that will work just as well or very similarly if you don't want to spend that kind of money. ALG (Geissele's Wife's Company) sells less expensive triggers that are very good as well. Everyone one has their preference and there will be a multitude of recommendations in that regard.


To be honest, the trigger that came in my rifle really wasn't that bad for a MIL-Spec, stock trigger. I've seen video of people taking a stock M&P10 out and hitting targets at over 700 yards. It took them a few shots to zero in to the hold over and windage but they did it.


Enjoy!
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Old 08-26-2020, 11:43 PM
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Sgtsandman brings up a good point. The bipod needs to be loaded the same each time. Leaning into it with the same force may improve your groups. Also, what's your method for aligning the sights? The best thing is to set the rifle up for correct alignment in the bags with no human force applied except to the rear bag. When the rifle is aligned without you touching it, then wrap yourself around the rifle and load the bipod forward. The idea is for the rifle to have a natural position without you forcing it one way or another. Also be sure you apply the same pressure to you shoulder each time.
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Old 09-01-2020, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Snidely Whiplash View Post
Iím relatively new to my rifle and havenít shot for many years. I was at an outdoor range today and was able to bench shoot at 100 yards (attempting to zero my rifle).

I have an M&P 10 Sport with a 4x Trijicon LED ACOG (TA110-D-100502) and an Atlas Bipod. Iím using Speer Gold Dot 168 grain ammunition.

Attached is a picture of one of my 5 round groups. Should I be happy with rounds into the 10 ring at 100 yards or is there a way to improve my groupings? I make an effort to fire during an exhale pause and I have a good site picture. Maybe not great with 52 year old eyes.

For perspective, the center orange circle of the targets is about the size of a quarter.
Your group is fine, I would try lots of different ammunition in your rifle, my rifle is perfectly happy with Winchester and Hornady 150 gr. bullets...

Now if you want to pull it into the bull, you can gradually adjust your way in, but as you have noticed, illuminating your reticle or other changes, may move your group. So you're on the right track, and as others have said, time behind the trigger is helpful.
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Old 09-01-2020, 10:04 AM
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I use a white poster board that I draw vertical and horizontal line. Like big cross hair. The 1st thing I do is shoot for group. Not caring where on target group is impacting. You don’t want to shoot up your aiming point. After my load and bullet is settled I then concentrate on windage. Clicking scope to vertical line. At same time making coarse adjustments to elevation. When that is accomplished then fine tune the elevation. I use the smallest aiming point I can see clearly. I also will use a high power scope on a new or new to me rifle to see what it’s capable of. Then replace with suitable scope for intended use. I never shoot 0 from a bipod. Always sandbags. If you are loading I would suggest trying 130gr Speer HP/ 4895 powder. I found this to be excellent out of all 308s. It was a accuracy load provided by Springfield for their M1a rifle. I have shot it in HK91s, FNs and ARs as well as several BAs. I have no experience with the S&W rifle.
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Old 09-02-2020, 07:35 AM
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I am by no means an accuracy expert. When I am sighting any of my rifles, I also use a sandbag at the heel of the stock. You did mention the bipod, but did not mention if you were using something to support the back end of the stock. I generally have my non trigger hand supporting the rear of the stock on the bag, similar to the way BamBam does
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Old 09-05-2020, 08:17 PM
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Just wanted to again say thank you to everyone who posted a message. This has been a huge help for my understanding the capabilities of my rifle and the expectations I should have of myself. Part of my problem was not knowing what expectations I should have; You guys helped a lot.

Sgtsandman, no apology necessary. I just wanted to explain that I had a bit of (dated) shooting experience, which I should have mentioned in my first post. Iím grateful for the beginners advice. Iím never so good at anything that keeping fundamentals in mind isnít important.

Iíve been rereading messages here and Iím excited to get back out and shoot again. Iím going to work on strengthening my fundamentals and try a target I can see better.

The ACOG was probably a poor choice for this rifle. I wanted durability and assumed I could use the M&P10 as a (secondary role) battle rifle but itís just too darn heavy for me to carry or shoot offhand. Given the cost of the ACOG Iíll have to keep it on this rifle and just make due as best as I can. If I can eventually get groups of several inches within 100 to 400 yard distances Iíll be happy and this rifle can still meet its primary role for me. Headshots at 100 yards and center mass hits at 400 yards would meet my goals. Obviously Iíve got some more practicing to do.

I assumed the bipod would be sturdy but as I think about it maybe it does allow for too much flex / barrel bounce. Many of you have mentioned shooting off of a sandbag. Are you guys using actual sand-filled bags or is there something else I should be looking at?
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Old 09-05-2020, 08:18 PM
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Just reread the entire thread again. This is some of the best advice Iíve ever received anywhere. Thanks to everyone so much.
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Old 09-05-2020, 09:48 PM
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A bag of sand from a home improvement store is cheap, heavy and therefore stable. It will just be too large. Some type of smaller canvas bag, like a bag of junk silver comes in (a bank bag or even the bag shotgun shot for relaoders comes in) works best and cheapest for me. I stack two 10# bags on top of each other to support my fore-end (not barrel) and then one smaller 5# bag for under the rear of the stock.

Snuggle the gun into the soft sandbags. Get the gun positioned so when you let go your crosshairs are right on target (each shot). Then apply yourself to the gun without moving (muscling) it, and let it show you how accurate IT is. You just hold on and mush the trigger without moving the gun. Follow through.

You are correct that your ACOG is not primo for precise accuracy, but it is a good, rugged, fast acquistion optic that should do just what you have specified. Itís always nice to find the maximum accuracy and load for any gun. It builds your confidence. Then set it up more to meet your needs.

IOW, borrow a good 10x scope, get the gun doped on sand bags with it to know itís maximum accuracy potential. Then mount your ACOG and bipod (Atlas is a very good one) again and go to work.

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Old 09-06-2020, 06:52 AM
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How's that new trigger working out for you?
While all the other advice is great, in the end, with doing all things properly... even a pulse beat of 12 BPS.. ..a crisp trigger will be needed.

Our 6920's OEM triggers, not sure how they compare to your rifle, are kinda like a two stage trigger. I can squeeze it, stop and a bit more pressure and it breaks but is not a crisp break.

I like rifles with double set triggers or a single stage.
Out Xing the current Olympic smallbore gold medalist, 200/18 to 200/16 prone... with my issued 52D ... was due to great teachers and a great trigger.
When Capt. Anderson handed me a beer and said, great shooting Sergeant, "you out Xed me", my reply was, "what's an X?"
After the spilled beer and laughter the scorer explained it all.
I was just taught to put them in the center of the 10 ring.
Not long after, Western Nationals at El Monte Ca in '68, a 12 year old kid from Barstow out shot everyone in the 50/100 yard two man team competition.
Glad he was my partner that day.
I poured him a root beer in his pewter mug
and as I just turned 21 had a non-3.2.
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Old 09-06-2020, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snidely Whiplash View Post

I assumed the bipod would be sturdy but as I think about it maybe it does allow for too much flex / barrel bounce. Many of you have mentioned shooting off of a sandbag. Are you guys using actual sand-filled bags or is there something else I should be looking at?
https://media.midwayusa.com/producti...718/718994.jpg

There are dozens of styles out there that are easier to carry and more functional than plain bags of sans. However, those plain bags of sand worker for many folks for many years. Just search "shooting rest bags"
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Old 09-06-2020, 07:08 AM
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My sandbag is a Caldwell and I dried the fine sand, Home Depot, in the oven before putting it in plastic bags.

Another option, can't find a picture, is a carpeted roller suspended between two side pieces like a rotisserie.
Great on a bench for standing or lower for sitting.
I was advised that shooting 458 WinMag or any big bore in my buddies Caldwell sled can crack stocks.
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Old 09-06-2020, 08:00 PM
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Some guys take socks and fill them with sand to make a sand bag for the butt stock. If you are interested in a DIY bag.


Me personally, I've been using a Caldwell Set that is a fore stock rest and butt stock rest that clip together for storage in my range bag. I probably could do better but they work well enough for me.


You are right about the rifle weight. Definitely not one I would want to lug around in the field.


I went with a Nikon M308 4-16X scope because it was made for MSR barrel length .308 Rifles. It's a pretty decent scope as long as you have a way to range the target. Plus, it's second focal plane, so the only time the ranging (Either turret or BDC depending on the model you get) is accurate is at 8X or 16X. Otherwise, you might as well go with a regular scope.


I'm thinking of replacing it with one of those Primary Arms First Focal plane scopes in the future. The ACSS reticule has been verified by long range shooters of being accurate and ranging is built into the reticule.
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Old 09-06-2020, 09:50 PM
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Whatever type of bag or bags you decide on, instead of sand, beans or rice as fillers look for these PolyPellets. They are inert, will not absorb moisture and are not quite as heavy as sand but still have enough weight to be stable. The pellets are also small enough that they will fit through a small necked funnel for filling your bags. They be bought at some craft/sewing stores or on-line.
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Old 09-06-2020, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mckenney99 View Post
Whatever type of bag or bags you decide on, instead of sand, beans or rice as fillers look for these PolyPellets. They are inert, will not absorb moisture and are not quite as heavy as sand but still have enough weight to be stable. The pellets are also small enough that they will fit through a small necked funnel for filling your bags. They be bought at some craft/sewing stores or on-line.
I tried different filler materials. Compared to sand, lighter, larger materials shifted more under recoil and required more adjustments and time between shots. Not worth it to me.

Putting sand in plastic garbage bags before inserting into canvas bags (or a sock) is a good tip.
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Old 09-09-2020, 10:56 PM
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My AR is a Colt Sporter (20" I believe). It's as stock as a stove, not counting a Trijicon ACOG and a decent trigger. I shoot factory ammo of all kinds, having never taken the time to see what it might like best. It routinely produces 1/2-3/4 " groups at 100 yards--just so long as I shoot slow enough to avoid heating up the barrel. The group size increases DRAMATICALLY with heat----might as well be throwing rocks.

Ralph Tremaine
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Old 09-10-2020, 07:04 AM
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2 rounds to warm barrel, then let cool for 5 minutes after you send 5 rounds if your shooting for super accuracy. From the look of your target add one click left, 2 clicks down to start. Add a small soft bag under the rear of the butt stock and use left had to squeeze the bag for tiny adjustments. This is where your left hand stays. Most important is the trigger and then breathing! A heavy trigger pull weight will negate any tiny adjustments prior to sending the round and your just driving yourself nuts otherwise.

What is your intended use? If it is for hunting or self protection your in the ball park! If your trying for something super accurate one hole shooting that's not the gun. AR chambers unless you buy a high end barrel are fairly loose. And then you have what's referred to as bullet jump (the distance from the ogive of the bullet to the start of the rifling). That requires you to measure with a gauge your chamber and then to make sure all your rounds are the same length from base to ogive. Again for a stock AR your shooting pretty darn good with 4X.

This is from my "bone stock" Ruger RPR with high end glass (Nightforce) and my reloads at 100 yards. It's crazy accurate and I'm not quite done with the load development, almost. That elusive 5th shot was breathing.
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Old 09-15-2020, 12:12 PM
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Without making any changes to the gun, have you used a "rear bag". The rear bag goes directly under the heel of the rifle, and should not be filled tight. It should have enough room to move the contents (sand) around, and with your left hand squeezing and manipulating the rear bag that is how you adjust your aim point. The front bag should also not be "tight", but with enough play for the rifle to rest into the bag without moving.

Next is the trigger, less than 3 lb is where you want to be, and considering the type of shooting even less. (If you have to pick the gun up and move with it, keep it in the 3 lb area).

My rifle shooting is primarily Prairie Dogs, range from 50 yards to 500 yards. My 22-250 shoots around a 1/4" at 100 yards. Developing a load to fit your rifle is another entire matter.
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Old 09-15-2020, 02:24 PM
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Making every thing uniform and precise will help accuracy in any mode. Benched or offhand. There are guns, individual and models that you just can’t wring target type accuracy out of. Same thing with scopes. Don’t forget there are guys with serious money into getting target accuracy out of their rifle. Unless you get one of a million you aren’t going to get that kind of accuracy out of box on production line rifle
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Old 09-15-2020, 06:25 PM
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Steyr bolt rifles, with double set triggers and good glass, often shoot a ragged hole at 100yds.... prone and just held with body parts.
Encase the rifle's stocks in cement and it'll be the best it will be.

Not a Smith but can the AR in question have its trigger improved?
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:16 AM
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You can do a trigger job on the factory trigger. It's been posted a few times on here. I think in the M&P15 section. I went the replace the trigger with a better model route.
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Old 09-18-2020, 07:00 PM
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Noting wrong with a Bipod.........
I use one all the way out to 800 yards with stock 270 and 30-06 hunting rifle.
However the non-trigger hand is not on the hand guard and moved back to support the trigger hand and stock area to keep stock movement to a minimum off a bench table.
You don't need a Gold Dot "Best Choice" 168 gr.bullet out of a rifle to have a load with enough energy for a person for SD.
A 125 or 150 gr .308 bullet is plenty for any in home to 300 yard work, in your rifle with a proper bullet design but if that is all that you have right now, go for it.
However you might want to try some lighter weight bullets that have less recoil than that 168 gr bullet, if you can find any and maybe save a little money.
As for a custom trigger, yes they will help.......
but you should give the stock trigger a chance and maybe get it polished if you have to, before going the route of a new trigger.
Lots of shooting time will teach you where your trigger takes up the "Slop" and when it will "Break"...... use snap caps if needed, for dry fire practice to get those cross hairs "Fine tuned".
The difference of a normal shooter and a Great Marksman is.........
time with his rifle.
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Old 09-18-2020, 08:22 PM
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if you think that you are the problem, I would recommend getting a nice two stage match trigger.
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