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  #1  
Old 06-15-2011, 09:13 PM
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Default Smith & Wesson M&P sport 5.56

what if anything have you guys and ladies done to upgrade the guns internal parts?
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  #2  
Old 06-16-2011, 04:15 AM
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I changed the standard buffer to a Spikes Tactical St-T2 buffer, which is heavier and uses powder rather than solid weights, so it eliminates the rattling sound that regular buffers can make in recoil.

Not much else to do with the internals. The BCG has chrome lined carrier and gas key and the gas key is properly staked. I suppose that you could swap the BCG for an M16 style BCG that has a little more weight, but a heavier buffer is cheaper and the gun has functioned perfectly with the factory BCG.

I added a Vortex Strikefire red dot sight.
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Old 06-16-2011, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottd1975 View Post
what if anything have you guys and ladies done to upgrade the guns internal parts?
Is there a problem with the gun.... if not shoot it. The buffer isn't neccessary, but sounds like it does make a difference in comfort, but not so much performance..
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Old 06-16-2011, 09:42 AM
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No changes here. I have been well pleased with mine. It hasn't had a hiccup yet, and it shoots right there with my other ARs. The only thing it "needs" is a trigger job, but that is no big deal and can be used just fine as-is for deliberate fire.

I am not in awe of the rear sight, so someday maybe it will be replaced (possibly with Troy night sights front and rear). But overall it is perfectly serviceable and, for the time being, all is well.
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Old 06-16-2011, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by turbo38gn View Post
The buffer isn't neccessary, but sounds like it does make a difference in comfort, but not so much performance..
The heavier buffer has had two effects as far as I can see. First is a slight reduction in the felt recoil. After 50 or 100 rounds, that slight difference does provide additional comfort.

Second, the ejection angle of the brass is a little closer to 4:00 than the 2:00 to 3:00 angle that some of the brass would come out before. S&W carbines tend to be a little over gassed, probably to ensure reliable functioning with lower powered .223 ammo. If you're shooting 5.56, then the heavier buffer makes a difference.

However, having said that, the gun has functioned flawlessly with both buffers, so a heavier buffer is not necessary from a performance standpoint.
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Old 06-16-2011, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Fabius View Post
The heavier buffer has had two effects as far as I can see. First is a slight reduction in the felt recoil. After 50 or 100 rounds, that slight difference does provide additional comfort.

Second, the ejection angle of the brass is a little closer to 4:00 than the 2:00 to 3:00 angle that some of the brass would come out before. S&W carbines tend to be a little over gassed, probably to ensure reliable functioning with lower powered .223 ammo. If you're shooting 5.56, then the heavier buffer makes a difference.

However, having said that, the gun has functioned flawlessly with both buffers, so a heavier buffer is not necessary from a performance standpoint.
Hmmmm.... where have I seen that exact same statement recently..
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Old 06-16-2011, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by turbo38gn View Post
Hmmmm.... where have I seen that exact same statement recently..
I was agreeing with your prior post. Should have said so, I guess.
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Old 06-17-2011, 06:13 AM
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I was agreeing with your prior post. Should have said so, I guess.
Not me.... M4C thread...
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Old 06-17-2011, 08:09 AM
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Yep. The Sport has been a hot topic on most boards for the last month or so. I've been posting my impressions and observations since I bought mine in May.

This is my first AR. I was reluctant to spend $1,200+ out the box and my impression before I began researching the topic earlier this year was that if I didn't spend that much then I risked getting an unreliable or undependable weapon. That impression made me hesitant to even consider buying an AR.

I realize now that this isn't the case. The AR is a mature design. There is no reason why good manufacturers can't make a perfectly reliable and dependable AR for a reasonable price. I know from the S&W pistols that I own that S&W is a good manufacturer, so when the Sport came out I didn't hesitate to buy one.

i'm glad that S&W is being innovative and offering quality alternatives to the traditional, more expensive milspec design. I hope that this puts pressure on other manufacturers to do the same.
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Old 06-17-2011, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Fabius View Post
...i'm glad that S&W is being innovative and offering quality alternatives to the traditional, more expensive milspec design. I hope that this puts pressure on other manufacturers to do the same.
For sure the innovation there is in the marketing, rather than the manufacturing.

The M&P15 Sport I have us a great shooter, which is what interests me. The meat and potatoes that make the gun work are still there, and dispensing with the forward assist, dustcover, grenade launcher cut on the barrel, articulating trigger guard, etc., just don't have much effect on how I use the gun. But I have diehard AR friends who think it a sham. That's OK with me.

I don't expect the Sport to cause any shift in the AR market. There is so much money flowing into The Great AR15-Hole that I doubt the various manufacturers, particularly the smaller, more kitsch-oriented ones, have any reason to take note of the Sport. But I do think it is pretty good marketing, and agree it may make AR owners out of some folks who might otherwise avoid the expense.
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Old 06-17-2011, 10:11 AM
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Just an interesting "aside". I read an interview with the CEO of S&W that indicated the new bbl. on the Sport and other new AR models is manufactured by Thompson Center whose bbl. manufacturing expertise was one of the motivations in the acquisition of the company by S&W. The "Sport" version seems to be becoming more attractive as things like that come to light and positive owners' reports are written.

Good for S&W for making and sourcing their rifles in the USA.
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  #12  
Old 06-18-2011, 08:35 PM
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Default Front sight removal.

New to the M&P-15. Can anyone help me with front sight adjustment? I need to push it on down the barrel to allow for a longer quad rail. Not sure how long, just not carbine length.

I figure I need to push those two pins out to slide the sight forward on the barrel. What's the best way to do it?

Thank You.
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Old 06-18-2011, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jwcarr1 View Post
New to the M&P-15. Can anyone help me with front sight adjustment? I need to push it on down the barrel to allow for a longer quad rail. Not sure how long, just not carbine length.

I figure I need to push those two pins out to slide the sight forward on the barrel. What's the best way to do it?

Thank You.
That is more complicated than it might seem. Because the front sight (if fixed) is integral with the gas block, you can't just "push it" down the bbl. I suspect you will find it more trouble than it is worth and don't see any advantage for you. If you want a midlength gas system instead of carbine length, you really need to get a new upper or change bbl. and everything but the upper receiver on your current one.
IF , otoh, you want a free float rail, both troy and DD make them without the need to remove the front sights or change the bbl. nut.
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Old 06-18-2011, 09:08 PM
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Thanks. This is going to be a pain in the *** with that gas block.
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Old 06-18-2011, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by MPDC View Post
I read an interview with the CEO of S&W that indicated the new bbl. on the Sport and other new AR models is manufactured by Thompson Center whose bbl. manufacturing expertise was one of the motivations in the acquisition of the company by S&W.
Thompson Center makes the barrels with 5R rifling. The 5R rifling is the same rifling used in the Army's M24 sniper rifle. The benefits are described as "...the rifling is five radial lands and grooves (5-R) with a right-hand (RH) twist. Because of the odd number of lands, none of the lands are 180 apart, i.e. in direct opposition. This results in less bullet deformation, which (at least in theory) produces more consistent point of impact. In 5-R rifling, the "side" of the land is cut at a 65 angle, rather than 90 in conventional rifling. This results in less barrel fouling, and more consistent point of impact, compared to conventional rifling when relatively high numbers of rounds are fired between cleaning, as might be expected in military applications."

I saw a press release by S&W shortly after the Sport was released that indicated that because of their acquisition of Thompson Center, the melonite treated, 5R rifled barrel is less expensive for them to make than the traditional chrome lined, 6R rifled barrels.

Not bad. A sniper quality rifle barrel for less cost than a traditional AR barrel.
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  #16  
Old 06-19-2011, 12:27 AM
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Well i was asking if anyone upgraded triggers or firing pins or anything?
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Old 06-19-2011, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by scottd1975 View Post
Well i was asking if anyone upgraded triggers or firing pins or anything?
Oops. Sorry if I helped to sidetrack your thread. The S&W Forum is pretty "discussion oriented." We don't mean any harm by it.

I'll return to your original post. TRIGGER JOB. That is all I have planned. Probably won't replace - rather work with what I have. I have a friend who is fairly handy with AR-15 triggers and it costs very little, compared to after-market units.

Only other thing might be Magpul stock-handguard-grip. I have another AR with this stuff and I find it very comfortable, particularly the handguard.

Mechanics and accuracy are fine as-is.
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  #18  
Old 06-19-2011, 11:46 PM
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Although I think the trigger is ok for the rifle's purpose, it could definitely be improved. Mine has a long travel - fairly smooth, but long. I would guess you could easily improve the factory trigger.
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  #19  
Old 07-05-2011, 03:49 PM
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Picked up an M&P Sport. New to ARs, not new to S&Ws. Mostly concerned that the lower is AR "common", which is what I have read. Hoping to make this a "varmint killer" to ride on my ATV.

Am planning the following upgrades:
  • Magpul grip
  • Timney 3 lb skeleton trigger
  • maybe an accurizing wedge if needed

Was cruising Midway the other day and ran across a DPMS Flattop 16" bull barrel complete upper on sale for $350 w/ very good reviews. This will be sitting on top of my Sport lower as soon as it comes in. Topping it with a 4-12X40. Hope to have it all together in a day or two, then off to the range.
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Old 07-05-2011, 06:14 PM
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Can you explain your concern on this common AR lower? I'm not super knowledgeable with AR-15's but from what I've seen in person and others opinions, not much huge differences between many lowers. Seems like your just paying for the name/design on it. I wouldn't hesitate buying a lower for $100 versus an identical one that has a cool design and very popular name for $200. Unless your going billet.
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Old 07-05-2011, 09:03 PM
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I just wanted to make sure adding aftermarket items wouldn't be an issue. Some companies like being "special" and forcing the end user to come back to the mothership to buy pieces and parts.

I'm not familiar enough with ARs to build one from scratch. When I first bought the M&P, wasn't going to trick it out much. After playing with it for a bit, decided it would make a good varmint control tool, but not with the stock trigger. I just happened across the DPMS upper on sale. I'll keep the M&P upper w/ iron sights and the DPMS upper w/ a scope.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jav View Post
Can you explain your concern on this common AR lower? I'm not super knowledgeable with AR-15's but from what I've seen in person and others opinions, not much huge differences between many lowers. Seems like your just paying for the name/design on it. I wouldn't hesitate buying a lower for $100 versus an identical one that has a cool design and very popular name for $200. Unless your going billet.
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Old 07-06-2011, 02:03 AM
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Originally Posted by ultratec00 View Post
I just wanted to make sure adding aftermarket items wouldn't be an issue. Some companies like being "special" and forcing the end user to come back to the mothership to buy pieces and parts.

I'm not familiar enough with ARs to build one from scratch. When I first bought the M&P, wasn't going to trick it out much. After playing with it for a bit, decided it would make a good varmint control tool, but not with the stock trigger. I just happened across the DPMS upper on sale. I'll keep the M&P upper w/ iron sights and the DPMS upper w/ a scope.
Ohhh, okay. I don't believe you'd have a problem dropping in common AR-15 parts in that thing.
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Old 07-07-2011, 01:50 PM
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Dropped the Timney trigger in last night and switched to the Magpul grip. Easy to install and well worth it over the stock trigger. Grip fits me better as well. Just need to break in the DMPS upper and see what kind of groups it will deliver. Looking real good too.
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Old 07-12-2011, 06:35 AM
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Ultra any problem changing out the grip? I looked up into the grip last night and it didn't look like it was attached with a standard screw or bolt.
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Old 07-13-2011, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wtex View Post
Ultra any problem changing out the grip? I looked up into the grip last night and it didn't look like it was attached with a standard screw or bolt.
Believe it's a hex, based on this guy's video:

YouTube - ‪scape05's Channel‬‏
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  #26  
Old 07-13-2011, 01:34 AM
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Thanks Von for the hardware help! That's a very useful video for anyone changing out the grip or stock.
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Old 07-13-2011, 05:46 PM
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Anyone know where S&W got the barrel for the sport? I'd like it for a build.
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Old 07-13-2011, 07:40 PM
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Thompson Center. 1-8 twist, 5r rifling and no I don't know if S&W will be having any for sale in the near future, if at all, as the demand for this entry level AR is selling like crazy. I ordered one and I'll get it......someday. They're out there but for the price I paid, I can wait...impatiently.

If I hear or read something that helps, I'll post it here.

Hobie
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Old 07-13-2011, 08:57 PM
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I added my email to a ton of internet retailers when the rifle gets back in stock haha but shoot...think I feel like building one first. I'm going to check out Thompson Center. I seem to have trouble finding rifles NOT in 1 in 7" twist. Kind of odd.
edit: Oh...they don't sell individual barrels?

Last edited by Jav; 07-13-2011 at 09:00 PM.
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  #30  
Old 07-14-2011, 06:50 PM
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Smith and Wesson has Thompson Center making the barrels because they bought Thompson Center a couple of years ago. I haven't seen any of the barrels for sale separately. The demand for the Sport has been so high that I suspect all of the barrel production will go into new Sports for a while.
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Old 07-15-2011, 03:26 PM
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Sorry, haven't checked the forum in a while. No problems swapping grips. I did keep the s&w hex screw vs. the magpul flat head screw. Added a washer because the hex head was a little smaller than the flat head.

Got the Sport pretty much tricked out how I want it. Did swap out the stock for a Magpul locking stock. Just need to finish fitting the DPMS wedge and she should be rock solid and no wobbles.

Have to find time to go to the range now and break the barrel in.

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Originally Posted by Wtex View Post
Ultra any problem changing out the grip? I looked up into the grip last night and it didn't look like it was attached with a standard screw or bolt.
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Old 07-15-2011, 06:01 PM
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Ultra thanks for the reply. I thought about switching out to a Magpul stock and handguard to go with the Magpul grip, so far the S&W stock has seemed ok. Is the Magpul one any longer? Also, when I've looked online at Magpul stocks, they seem to sell 2 different versions, one for "military specs" buffer tube, and one for commerical buffer tube, do you know which one the Sport is?
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Old 07-15-2011, 11:29 PM
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The Sport is the mil spec tube, called S&W to confirm. Took only a second to take the old one off and put the new one on. I got the CTR, which locks down. Doesn't seem any longer and looks like the standard stock except for the lock down. The only play now is between the lower and upper. The wedge should fix that once I trim it to fit. This should be a compact tack driver w/ the DPMS upper and Timney trigger. Slapped a 4-12X40 on top.

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Originally Posted by Wtex View Post
Ultra thanks for the reply. I thought about switching out to a Magpul stock and handguard to go with the Magpul grip, so far the S&W stock has seemed ok. Is the Magpul one any longer? Also, when I've looked online at Magpul stocks, they seem to sell 2 different versions, one for "military specs" buffer tube, and one for commerical buffer tube, do you know which one the Sport is?
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Old 07-16-2011, 12:48 PM
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I also put a Magpul MOE handguard and CTR stock on my Sport. Both dropped in with no problem. The buffer tube is milspec on the Sport, so make sure to buy a milspec stock.
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Old 07-16-2011, 05:55 PM
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Thanks Ultra and Fabius, now I know which kind to look for. Are you pleased with how it looks?
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Old 07-17-2011, 12:04 AM
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I like the looks of the Magpul handguard a lot.

I'm not a big fan of the looks of any of the aftermarket stocks, but the CTR at least has clean lines and doesn't detract from the overall look of the rifle. The friction lock gives it a very solid feel and the butt plate and cheek rest are more ergonomic than a standard AR collapsible stock.
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Old 07-17-2011, 08:28 PM
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I tried the Magpul M.O.E handguard and was not impressed. My disklike of it was that it was a sloppy fit. It was loose enough to allow it to rotate just a bit and it bugged the heck out of me. I don't like shouldering a rifle and have the handguard feel like I forgotten to tighten something. It stayed on long enough for me to decide what I wanted to replace it with.

On the other hand, I use Magpul's grip and like the heck out of it. I need to get one for my other AR one of these days.
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Old 07-17-2011, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arizona98tj View Post
I tried the Magpul M.O.E handguard and was not impressed. My disklike of it was that it was a sloppy fit. It was loose enough to allow it to rotate just a bit and it bugged the heck out of me. I don't like shouldering a rifle and have the handguard feel like I forgotten to tighten something. It stayed on long enough for me to decide what I wanted to replace it with.

On the other hand, I use Magpul's grip and like the heck out of it. I need to get one for my other AR one of these days.
Yeah, agree the MOE handguard is not up to standards. Mine was sloppy too, the metal heat guard/bbl. wrap kept seperating from the polymer (press fit) and had to be re assembled every time I removed it to clean or work. It is nice looking and ergonomic but not well executed , IMHO.
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Old 07-18-2011, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Jwcarr1 View Post
New to the M&P-15. Can anyone help me with front sight adjustment? I need to push it on down the barrel to allow for a longer quad rail. Not sure how long, just not carbine length.

I figure I need to push those two pins out to slide the sight forward on the barrel. What's the best way to do it?

Thank You.
You can't move the front sight post because it also serves as part of the gas system. To do what you want to do, you need to get a low-profile gas block, and a mid-length or full-length floating hand guard. This also means you have to change out the barrel nut (most of the floating hand guards on the market come with the appropriate nut and other attaching parts). You also would need to purchase a rail-mounted front sight because your front sight will be gone after making the other ascribed changes.

Finally, you would have to purchase the tools required to remove the factory handguard/barrel nut, and install the replacement parts.

Total approximate cost is $500-$600.
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Old 07-18-2011, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPDC View Post
Yeah, agree the MOE handguard is not up to standards. Mine was sloppy too, the metal heat guard/bbl. wrap kept seperating from the polymer (press fit) and had to be re assembled every time I removed it to clean or work. It is nice looking and ergonomic but not well executed , IMHO.
I've got the MOE variant of the M&P15, and my hand guard isn't sloppy at all. I've had it on/off several times, and yes, the heat shield tends to come off, but it goes right back together, and doesn't slip, rattle, twist or deform in the slightest when in use.
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Old 07-18-2011, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabius View Post
I like the looks of the Magpul handguard a lot.

I'm not a big fan of the looks of any of the aftermarket stocks, but the CTR at least has clean lines and doesn't detract from the overall look of the rifle. The friction lock gives it a very solid feel and the butt plate and cheek rest are more ergonomic than a standard AR collapsible stock.
I have the CTR on both of my ARs. I like it a lot. On the M&P:



And on my scratch-built AR:

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Old 07-18-2011, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsimmons View Post
I've got the MOE variant of the M&P15, and my hand guard isn't sloppy at all. I've had it on/off several times, and yes, the heat shield tends to come off, but it goes right back together, and doesn't slip, rattle, twist or deform in the slightest when in use.
Glad you like it but perhaps the fit is better when the rifle is designed to use it. My OR model with non sighted gas block was a loose fit. No way to adjust it to be tighter. My solution........Cut off the Delta ring and add the Troy MRF-C free float quad rail. That, a Geiselle SSA-E trigger and a few other mods and I am a happy shooter!



Your mid length build looks great, BTW!
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  #43  
Old 07-18-2011, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ultratec00 View Post
I just wanted to make sure adding aftermarket items wouldn't be an issue. Some companies like being "special" and forcing the end user to come back to the mothership to buy pieces and parts.

I'm not familiar enough with ARs to build one from scratch. When I first bought the M&P, wasn't going to trick it out much. After playing with it for a bit, decided it would make a good varmint control tool, but not with the stock trigger. I just happened across the DPMS upper on sale. I'll keep the M&P upper w/ iron sights and the DPMS upper w/ a scope.
From my experience:

0) If you're going to remove the front sight post, it's important to remember that S&W installs the sight retaining pins from the *wrong* side of the rifle (at least they did up to a year or so ago.

1) Don't bother with anti-rotation pins until and if you have a problem with the hammer pin walking out of the lower. The anti-rotation pins drag on the trigger because they don't rotate, making for a heavier trigger. Of course, the drop in trigger modules may work better because they don't actually ride on the pins.

2) The Magpul mag release lever is pretty convenient. Not necessary, but convenient nonetheless. Both of my ARs have one.

3) The Magpul enhanced trigger guard is only useful if you have to wear rather bulky gloves. Both of my ARs have one.

4) Tactical latches - I got a badger one that sticks WAY out and don't really like it, but it's better than the stock one.

5) Get the CTR stock. The stock release leaver on the MOE stock hangs out and catches on stuff. The CTR stock also appears to be a slightly tighter fit. Yours will be a MilSpec version.

6) MagPul PMags - that's all I use. I prefer the 20's with a ranger loop on them (you can see one on my scratch-built rifle, above) but have over a dozen 30's (and 20's). The ranger loop is kinda pointless on the 30's because the mag is already pretty long.

7) Get rid of the rear sight and get a Troy folding sight.

8) I also replaced my standard FSP with a Yankee-hill flip-up front sight/gas block.

9) If you want to replace the BCG with a full-auto (M-16) version, you will also need to replace your buffer and action spring. I use a H2 buffer with a Sprinco "Blue" action spring.

10) Regarding the BCG, you do NOT need to spend the money on the ones with fancy coatings. On a frequently-used gun, the coating won't last long. All you have to do is make sure the gas key is properly staked, and the carrier and bot are both magnafluxed and shotpeened. A decent quality full-auto (M-16) BCG shouldn't cost you more than $120.

11) Go to Wal-Mart and buy 100 rounds (five boxes) of TulAmmo. Shoot all 100 rounds in one range visit. If you experience no jamming or FTF issues, that's GREAT. My M&P shoots it just fine, so that's what I practice with. I buy it 1000 rounds at a time from Cheaper Than Dirt. The last time I bought a case, it was just $189. I think it's $219 now, so there might be better deals out there. If you insist on shooting brass, M193 or M855 are perfect for the rifle.

12) If you want to keep the non-floating handguard,try out a MOE one. I personally like the shape of it better than the standard round one.

13) Replace your flash hider. I use a Smith Enterprises Vortex G6-A2 on my S&W, and a DragonBrake on my scratch-built rifle. I prefer the DragonBrake for noise, but I've never shot it at night, so I don't know how well it hides the flash.
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  #44  
Old 07-18-2011, 07:38 PM
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Glad you like it but perhaps the fit is better when the rifle is designed to use it. My OR model with non sighted gas block was a loose fit. No way to adjust it to be tighter. My solution........Cut off the Delta ring and add the Troy MRF-C free float quad rail. That, a Geiselle SSA-E trigger and a few other mods and I am a happy shooter!

Your mid length build looks great, BTW!
Thanks. It's what I call "well-equipped" (16-inch stainless 1:8 barrel, M-16 BCG and associated parts, custom trigger job, and it REALLY likes 62-grain M855 (2-inch groups at 100 yards). Even with lighter loads, it doesn't open up much beyond 3-inches. Someone with better eyesight could probably make it shoot a little better too.

I eventually want to get a floating hand guard for my M&P. I was thinking the Troy TRX. It's VERY light. I'm not a "rails" kinda guy, and prefer my hand guards to be small and smooth.

BTW, my M&P is just as accurate as the scratch-built.

BTW, my scope of choice is also a Nikon M223 (3-12x42).
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Old 07-18-2011, 07:47 PM
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Yep, like your set up (rail on the build) better but didn't want to remove the bbl. Your groups sound good (LOL and believable). My old eyes need help too.

I wonder how many new shooters frustrate themselves trying to duplicate the REPORTED 1MOA and under 100 yd groups claimed on so many sites. My scope has a 3 MOA central dot designed for three gun so at 100, 2" groups make me happy and I smile when I get them. It is NOT however, every time.

BTW, if you decide to try a Geiselle, I can highly recomment the SSA-E. I was afraid it would be too light but it is fine, smooth and predictable with a distinct stop to stage one and a really crisp, light break on two.
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Old 07-18-2011, 08:03 PM
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I wonder how many new shooters frustrate themselves trying to duplicate the REPORTED 1MOA and under 100 yd groups claimed on so many sites.
I've got some range stories.

Some folks think pointing and shooting is all there is too it. The key is to understand the mechanics of it, and once they do, they become better shooters almost instantly. Beyond that, they only thing you can recommend is practice and becoming intimately familiar with the gun and the ammo it shoots.

I've seen a guy fire one shot from a brand new Remington Model 700 (chambered in .308), said "Ouch!", and packed up and left. I'm sure he either sold it shortly thereafter, or it's sitting in a closet, forgotten, and never to be used again.
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