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07-03-2011, 07:20 PM
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mp15 sport iron sights
not really set my iron sights to zero yet, just took it and shot it this past weekend, but was hoping someone could explain a good way to zero in the iron sights, distance to start at and how to adjust the sights and front post. thanks
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07-03-2011, 08:09 PM
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Last edited by MPDC; 07-03-2011 at 08:20 PM.
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07-23-2011, 01:25 AM
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I haven't had real good results with the Sport iron sights. Part of it is I believe has to do with ARs in general the front sight sits back several inches from the end of the barrel, this has to reduce accuracy. I measured it the other day and the Sport was only 15 inches between the rear and the front sight, as where a standard mini 14 with the sight on the end of the barrel is 21 inches. Minis are not known for accuracy but those extra 6 inches have to help. I know for me Garands and Enfields are alot easier shooting at 100 yrds, I believe it has to do with the sights being so far apart. I love my Sport so I'm putting a scope on it to get all its available accuracy.
Last edited by Wtex; 07-23-2011 at 01:36 AM.
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07-23-2011, 01:31 AM
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Soldiers qualify to 300 meters with iron sights on their rifles, and Marines to 500 meters. While carbine-type AR-15s are shorter than M-16s, the sight radius is not something you need to be worried about. Especially at 100 yards, the maximum range most civilians shoot their AR-15s...
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07-23-2011, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wtex
I haven't had real good results with the Sport iron sights. Part of it is I believe has to do with ARs in general the front sight sits back several inches from the end of the barrel, this has to reduce accuracy. I measured it the other day and the Sport was only 15 inches between the rear and the front sight, as where a standard mini 14 with the sight on the end of the barrel is 21 inches. Minis are not known for accuracy but those extra 6 inches have to help. I know for me Garands and Enfields are alot easier shooting at 100 yrds, I believe it has to do with the sights being so far apart. I love my Sport so I'm putting a scope on it to get all its available accuracy.
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The measurement you're talking about is called the "sight radius", and yes - the longer the distance, the easier it is to be accurate. That being said...
The AR-15 is a medium range weapon, and when chambered in 5.56, it's effective range is about 500 meters. A properly sighted-in rifle in the hands of a trained rifleman is effective out to the cartridge's maximum effective range (environmental conditions not withstanding). That being said...
Most engagements happen within 70-100 yards. If your rifle shoots 4-inch groups at 100 yards with iron sights, that's adequate.
If you want to find out how accurate your rifle really is
0) Mount a high-quality scope on high-quality scope rings
1) Purchase 20-40 rounds of high-quality ammo (you want the most consistent loads available).
2) Use a rifle rest that you can secure the rifle to.
3) Wait for a day with little/no wind, and go to the range sometime after the middle of the day when temperatures have equalized.
After you've zeroed the scope, start shooting for groups (resist the urge to adjust the scope after starting to shoot for groups). Carefully adjust the bench rest after each shot to the same point of aim.
Your shots may not hit the bulls eye (a matter of scope adjustment), but you *will* be able to determine how repeatable the point of impact is.
After all of that, any group bigger than what you get with that procedure is entirely caused by the shooter (given the same conditions and ammo).
Personally, my eyesight is degrading with age, so using iron sights to see how accurate a rifle is at 100 yards is pretty much impossible. That being said...
With practice ammo and iron sights at 100 yards, I can shoot 4-inch groups. With a scope from the bench, I can shoot 1-inch groups. I know for a fact that my rifles can shoot better than I allow them to.
BTW, I have a M&P15 MOE (carbine-length gas system) as well as a scratch-built AR with a mid-length gas system (and therefore, a slightly longer sight radius). Both rifles are equally accurate with me shooting them. With a better shooter, who knows.
EDIT =============
I failed to mention that a longer barrel will do more for accuracy than changing your sight radius (which will happen due to the longer barrel, but that's not the important part of the equation). An 18-inch barrel will help, but a 20-inch barrel is optimum for accuracy at the 5.56 cartridges maximum effective range of 600 meters. However, when you start changing the length of the barrel, you start changing the mission profile of the rifle. Your typical AR-15 is designed for CQB and encounters between 50 and 150 yards because it's got a collapsible stock and a 16-inch (or shorter) barrel. A shorter rifle is lighter and faster to swing through doorways and bring up to the target. If you add a longer barrel, you may as well put on a regular rifle stock as well, if for no other reason that to add some rear weight to help counter balance the heavier barrel.
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Last edited by jsimmons; 07-24-2011 at 06:34 PM.
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07-24-2011, 12:21 AM
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Yes the targets were alot clearer 20 years ago. I'll try that method as soon as my scope arrives, but doubt I'll find a day around here that isn't windy.
Last edited by Wtex; 07-25-2011 at 12:28 AM.
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06-01-2013, 11:07 PM
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Actually, when I was in the army around 20 years ago we were shooting 400 meter targets.
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06-01-2013, 11:51 PM
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When this thread was started, the Sport actually had irons, both front and rear....
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06-02-2013, 12:22 AM
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and they were better than the plastic magpul that comes on it now...LOL
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06-02-2013, 01:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wtex
I haven't had real good results with the Sport iron sights. Part of it is I believe has to do with ARs in general the front sight sits back several inches from the end of the barrel, this has to reduce accuracy. I measured it the other day and the Sport was only 15 inches between the rear and the front sight, as where a standard mini 14 with the sight on the end of the barrel is 21 inches. Minis are not known for accuracy but those extra 6 inches have to help. I know for me Garands and Enfields are alot easier shooting at 100 yrds, I believe it has to do with the sights being so far apart. I love my Sport so I'm putting a scope on it to get all its available accuracy.
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I wholeheartedly agree with you. When I was getting my rifleman qualification, we had to hit targets to 300 meters with those same iron sights, and lemme tell you- we did it.
Then, using those SAME iron sights, for marksman I had to hit targets to 500 meters. And I did it.
Now, with my Sport, I have only hit dogs out to maybe 200yds with the iron sights. Yes, I have shot further and missed, but then again, I was shooting at moving dogs. Had they sat still, and I had a commanding vista to work from, I would have taken some of them out to 400 without much trouble.
Irondesk; the basics for the sights are easy. The front post handles elevation, the rear handles windage. The sight picture you are looking for is to rest the tip top of your front post right under your intended target; imagine if it were a coyote, the tip top of the post will be just touching the dog's center. The halo of the rear aperture will have the front sight and the target centered within it. The rear sight and target will be a touch blurry, the front post will be clear in your vision. Better to have the front post vivid and the target just a bit blurry, rather than the front post blurry and the target crystal clear.
If you are starting out, use the larger halo on your sight. It has to apertures; the large ring will be for 50 yards, and the small ring is for 200 yards. YES, these are center marks. If you are dead on at 50 with the large ring, you are gonna be dead on at 200 with the small ring. Sight in at 25 yards. Use a can/ tennis ball on a dirt backstop to see if you are way off left or right, up or down. Once you see where you are actually shooting, then really check yourself to determine that you are aiming properly as I described. Once you are confident in repeating your shot placement (Regardless of being off the target or not- at the first outset it matters none. Consistency is what you need first.)
Okay, so you are shooting a bit low, and to the left. You will wind the front post DOWN into the pocket, turning it clockwise. Every notch down/ 1/4 turn will bring you up about 1/4". Now, the left shooting. Turn the windage dial on the rear sight to the LEFT, into the direction you are shooting. It will correct the windage for you. Once you are close at 25, then you step out to 50. You get your good zero at 50 yds, and then you are basically good to go at 200.
To increase range, without adjustment, you will bring your sight UP into your target. (You really need to know roughly the yardage.) Say you are now shooting out to 300 instead of 200. The sight WAS centered up with the tip top of the sight just under your intended center of target. You will Kentucky windage and elevate the shot by putting the tip top of the post on the dead center of the target instead of just under the target. Remember, with a flat top front sight, it makes for a small straight line/ a platform where the bullet would land. But at 300, you need to be basically 4-6" higher. This means the flat spot will cut the target in half.
Out to 500, you will be putting the tip top of the target on the top edge of the coyote. Right in line with the tip top of his back. That has brought you up another 6-8", and you will hit him if there is not much cross wind.
On the original intended target? A homo sapien is easy to adjust for. At 20yds, aim for the bolls. 50, you center mass. At 200, you center mass. At 300, you aim for the bottom of the neck/ tip top of the chest. At 500, you aim for the top of the head. All this goes out the window if: A. He is lying down/ crouching. OR, B. He is shooting in your direction. If 'B' is the scenario?? It's anybody's guess as to how you will react and work. My recommendation is to center mass him real quickly, and send him some person repellant as quickly as you can.
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06-02-2013, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oneyeopn
and they were better than the plastic magpul that comes on it now...LOL
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A little off topic, but what have people used to replace the Magpul rear with irons. Maybe go with Troy since that's what came on them prior to the Magpul?
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06-02-2013, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadonny
A little off topic, but what have people used to replace the Magpul rear with irons. Maybe go with Troy since that's what came on them prior to the Magpul?
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I kept the Magpul on the rear of the 2nd one. The first one has the Troy unit. Yes, the Troy is better, but then again, it's not removable so quickly, and it's not a fold down.
I do have some extremely nice USMC KAC sights that I use on another rifle. They are very nice, and retarded durable. (Strong enough for a Marine. Which is to say the equipment can take a real beating and had better be up to snuff.) The KAC flip up is bitchin'' because it has elevation as well as windage built right in, and zeros out for distance. No messing with a front post, just twist it to go up or down.
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06-02-2013, 10:25 AM
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There is also the Matech that the Marine Corps also uses. With it you still have to zero out the front post but it has range adjustments with just a twist of a lever out to 600 yards/meters. It has a real nice aperture but it is small, in fact it is smaller than the Magpuls and the way it is built it focuses nicely.
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06-02-2013, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oneyeopn
There is also the Matech that the Marine Corps also uses. With it you still have to zero out the front post but it has range adjustments with just a twist of a lever out to 600 yards/meters. It has a real nice aperture but it is small, in fact it is smaller than the Magpuls and the way it is built it focuses nicely.
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Oh Sweet Jesus wrapped in Bacon!
That is NICE. The aperture peep is the same as the KAC unit; tiny, like a 1MOA red dot.
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06-02-2013, 10:51 AM
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lots of ammo I always start out of the box there is a tool you will need for elevetion the windage is a screw on back sight I use sand bags as a study base start plinking your way to center of target sighted mine at 100 hits every time
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06-02-2013, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oneyeopn
and they were better than the plastic magpul that comes on it now...LOL
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My sport has iron sights on front and rear. Fixed up front and a flip up magpul on the rear.
I shot it in at 50 yards since they are supposed to be on at 50, high at 100 and back on at 200 yards, and was hitting clay pigeon targets free hand at 100 yards the other week. That is all I can ever ask out of a set of irons and my steadily degrading eyes.
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06-02-2013, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodbilyeu
lots of ammo I always start out of the box there is a tool you will need for elevetion
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Yes, the front sight adjusting tool is found in every box of ammo sold for 5.56.
It can also be found in every magazine that contains at least one round....
.
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06-02-2013, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oneyeopn
There is also the Matech that the Marine Corps also uses. With it you still have to zero out the front post but it has range adjustments with just a twist of a lever out to 600 yards/meters. It has a real nice aperture but it is small, in fact it is smaller than the Magpuls and the way it is built it focuses nicely.
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Thanks Grover.
Anyone know where to get the best deal on one of these?
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06-02-2013, 09:13 PM
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WardenRoss...pm sent!
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