I have had my eye on the SW M&P 15 MOE edition and I just noticed this one that will be on sale this week at Cabelas:

Cabelas - Q1V - Hoffman Estates_Hammond

This looks very similar to the MOE edition, but lacks the front sight and seems the lack the MBUS rear site as well. Can anyone identify this specific model? Would SW customer service be able to identify the model? If would need to know how what components (and how many) are chromed.

Thank you!



Justin

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That's not an MOE. It's an OR (optics ready) model. All of the S&W M&Ps have the same functional parts (bolt, action spring, barrel, upper, & lower). The only real differences between them are the furniture and the sights.

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*Aim small, miss small...

Based on more info retrieved from Cabelas website, this specific model is the M&P15OR-MOE

M&P15OR – This model has a flat-top receiver with an integrated rail and a shorter second rail in front of the forend to accommodate your choice of accessories.

M&P15OR-MOE – Identical to the M&P15OR above, but outfitted with a Magpul® MOE adjustable stock, grip and handguard.

Cabela's: Smith & Wesson M&P15 Semiautomatic Rifles

Thank you for the info Jsimmons.



Justin

IF it is an OR model, the front sight should NOT be polymer as the MOE folding sights are. IMHO, buy an OR and outfit it with Troy or YHM or MI metal folders OR just go with a nice 1-4 optical scope. The MOE handguard fits some better than others and it is a crapshoot, IMHO.

Yup, the real issue here is sights. If the gun comes to you exactly as is shown in the ad, it is not ready to shoot. You will have to put over $100 more into sights, especially since the front sight cannot be a plastic MBUS. Now you're looking at spending well over a grand on an M&P15. M&Ps are ok ARs, but I would not spend that much on one. Far better options out there in that price range, especially if you are willing to piece together an upper and lower.

Also keep in mind you are getting a 1/9 barrel with this gun, which is far from ideal if you want to shoot heavier bullets. Heck, even the Sport has a better barrel and is significantly cheaper even at the everyday, non-sale price.

Regarding the MOE handguard fit, I just got back from the range and there was a young man with a new Colt AR dressed in MOE. The handguard had side to side play though not excessive. It did not have any forward or rearward play like I've read about. I really like the way the MOE handguard feels but I'm not willing to gamble on fit.

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JT

I got that OR-MOE model at Cabela's for the same price, several weeks ago. I've not shot it yet unfortunately. Waiting on backordered Troy Sights. About all I can add is that the handguard fit is secure on mine.

I have an M&P15 OR....bought a couple of years ago.

Spent $$ on the MagPul handguard. Bad choice....it was a loose fit.

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Stu

Magpul makes a lot of good accessories. The MOE handguard is not one of them.

Just got the sport from cabelas. Didn't WANT nor NEED a dust cover, and forward assist is my right index finger and scalloped bolt recess...unless it's uber hot. Can't see the use of a dust cover when after first shot, its open anyway. Plus, no desert combat. As for OR model M&P 15, less is more. Taking a lightweight weapon, and hanging 2-3 pounds of **** on it seems a bit goofy.

I have the MOE, with the following mods:

0) Magpul CTR stock

1) CAA UPG-16 pistol grip

2) Yellow trigger spring kit

3) Trigger pin anti-rotation pins

4) Sights - Troy rear flip-up and YHM flip-up at the front.

5) Vortex flash hider

I've had the MOE hand guard on/off a couple of times, and each time I put it back on, it snugs right up like it should. Other then some judicious use of camo-wrap, the rifle is slim/trim and weights the same as it did when I bought it. No lights, no forward grip, and no tripod.

I have to admit that I did cheap out on the red dot until finances improve - I got a Primary Arms Microdot for now, but plan on an Aimpoint Micro sometime next year. Admittedly, my current PA has been flawless thus far and cost less than 1/4 of what the Aimpoint does.

One other thing - steel-cased ammo does not present a problem for this rifle. I mainly shoot Tula for practice, and have a stash of M855 in the event of a zombie apocalypse.

I think the forward assist and dust cover are important additions to the rifle, especially if this is going to be your SHTF rifle.

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*Aim small, miss small...

I disagree with the importance of the dust cover specifically, and find forward assist being given far too much. When SHTF (as in a WW3 scenario I don't see happening, or an even less likely zombie apocalypse) I would rather be in the company of a no frills ergonomic weapon. After the first shot fired, what purpose does the dust cover serve? Forward assist? Use a thumb and push on the bolt, hot or not, it'll work I've done it.

As for MOE version, looks sharp but heard bad things of magpul stocks. Their mags rule though.

Have you ever been in a dust storm? On patrol in the moondust of Afghanistan? Ever actually used your rifle for something other than punching holes in paper at your friendly local range?

Can't say that I have. But, last I checked, this isn't Afghanistan, nor will I get into an argument about the positive affects of a piece of plastic in a war I did and never have agreed with.

Fact is, whether my Missouri hardwoods or someone else's backyard firing range, in a hunting situation or even a two way range I'm glad to have less **** to worry about failing.

P.s. Going to the war scenarios over a semi automatic weapon that never saw that campaign is ludicrous.

Magpul mags rule, stocks suck, and it is MY opinion, which I'm entitled to, that the dust cover is an uneccessary device. Thank you.

I see no need for the political comment. i for one am thankful to those who serve and have served in Afghanistan. Nobody loved being in Vietnam either but.....................

Afghanistan is a great place to learn about M-4s. How to use them, how to care for them, and what makes them choke. I'm glad I had the opportunity to serve there, regardless of how many people "disagree" with the wars.

So in an effort to get this thread back on track, what happened to the OP? Did he get his gun?

Thank you for serving. I have many family members who have, and I agree that the middle east is a great testing ground. I just think that whatever is necessary there is basically moot here. Most of us will not see urban or desert conflict. But home defense is something we can ALL relate to. That being said, you to yours and me to mine.

Have you seen the vid of a gent who's hand gets literally stuck and chewed up by a magpul stock. Ewwwww...

...but what? I'm not the one who brought politics into a firearm conversation. Keep the thread on track. I made a comment regarding my opinion of dust covers and forward assist. I am thankful to those who serve in armed forces, however I will not apologize for my opinion of the middle eastern conflict. My favorite uncle is a veteran of Vietnam, another war I have issue with, but it's hindsight.

That aside, the smith and wesson M&P 15, in my opinion, is awesome regardless of variation. They have done a good job of making an affordable AR that is quality.

LOL, nice recovery but if you reread your post IN CONTEXT you connected the war and the issue. THAT took it off track, IMHO. Lots of relatives served, OK, good for THEM.

Now back to the "track", as you were, carry on.

IMO dust covers are very needed on any AR used for anything other than just range use. The best way to keep an AR reliable is to run the bolt/bolt carrier wet (well lubricated). The dust cover serves to help keep this lube from being contaminated with debris, rubbing off or drying out. And yes it will be open while shooting but any knowledgeable user will keep it closed at all other times, not hard to do. So on any rifle other than a range toy the dust cover is needed, forward assist not needed but not really worth the effort to find an upper without one to me.

That's a bummer, 'cause the grip felt pretty good. A friend had one, and he had to make a shim to fit in there to solid it up.

0) The dust covers on *my* ARs are metal, not plastic. Where do you get your upper receivers?

1) Of all the failures I've heard about on ARs, the dustcover has NEVER been mentioned as a point of failure.

2) If you're on the move with your rifle slung, or even ready but not in use, a dust cover is a means to keep **** out of the BCG mechanism. It will prevent dust, rain, leaves, twigs, and even small pebbles from fouling the BCG, and has the nifty side effect of reducing the amount of cleaning you have to do between engagements. I keep mine closed when the rifles are in the safe.

3) A "going to war" scenario is getting to be a stronger and stronger likelihood in this country. I wouldn't discount it too much.

4) I happen to like the Magpul CTR stocks. They lock down good and tight (the MOE stocks are ****). As I've already said, I haven't ever had a problem with the MOE hand guard on my S&W, and the MOE pistol grip was replaced with a CAA unit.

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*Aim small, miss small...

The ctr is the stock I refer to. I will get you the link of a man's ctr that not only fails, but squished and nearly broke his hand in the process. Metal DC, yes you are correct, I just liken them to plastic as that is about their worth. A good point was made on another thread about quietly chambering a round with FA. But, if that also were to fail, as is possible cuz all bad things happen eventually, we'd be screwed. I get my uppers same as you do, from the getting' place. Who are we going to war with soon? Last I checked, no invasion as of late minus illegal immigrants. Border patrol can have that one

You fail to mention that in the video you are referring to, the guy is slamming the buttstock on the ground. Doing this with fingers wrapped around the buffer tube is stupidity, not stock failure.

Interesting you mention that since that was one of my observations when at Cabelas over the weekend. The hand guard seemed a little loose on the MOE-OR. Other than than that, it looked like a decent rifle. The hand guard did seem to have a bit more play that I would prefer, but I am really kicking my feet on my first AR purchase. I agree that a thousand bucks is still a ton of cash for a rifle that would immediately need troy sights.

Any other recommendations for the best bang for the buck AR for less that $1200.00? Anyone a fan of the Ruger SR-556E?

Thank you for the input!



Justin

I could've bought 2 M&P15 Sports for $1200.00, but I bought one for $599.00 at my local gun store. It does not have FA or DC, but it is a no compromise, high quality, accurate, reliable AR out of the box. There are indeed merits to having a dust cover and forward assist.

I am one of those guys that shoots regularly at the range, and keeps the weapon, among others, for home defense. If I were using my AR in the field or for work, I would certainly opt for full features. I will not try to convince anyone that a dust cover and forward assist is not needed. In fact, if you plan to use your rifle in harsh environments, I suggest getting a model with FA and DC.

There are M&P AR models with FA and DC for less than $1200.00. Check them out on S&W website. Keep in mind their prices listed are retail, not typical selling prices.
Another forum member posted a link posted to Palmetto State Armory a while back that has several well featured ARs on their website. I've bought ammo from PMA but can not personally attest to their firearms. I expect they are decent from what I've read on the internet.

I've also seen full featured Colts advertised for less than $1200.00. Shop around and compare features.

The Ruger SSR 5.56 seems over-priced to me, but I'm no expert. Prices seem like they are relaxing a bit. It seems like a good time to buy. Let us know what you end up getting.

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JT

Check out this site:

G&R Tactical

Lots of options on there. Complete rifles, uppers, lowers, anything you could want. Mix and match some items and see what you like. With a budget of $1200 you can get a top of the line AR-15, you need to be focused on Colt, BCM, Noveske or Daniel Defense instead of lower quality offerings.

Stupity, definately. Anyone who treats their weapon that way should really not own it in the first place. But, the CTR is a friction locking stock, and if the guy had sent that little vid to Magpul, I'm sure theyd be a little nervous. Sadly, I wouldnt mind owning that stock, as I have no intentions of banging it on the ground. Let me rephrase: Failure, maybe not to you, to me (after reanylizing that youtube vid) is more of a liability. If for any reason a finger or piece of clothing got caught in the stock and either deminished its locking ability or made it useless to the operator in a two way range situation...that is the POSSIBILITY of failure and therefore I see it as a liability. But, most of us who own AR's are hitting on most of the cylinders...so no stock banging.

Wilson Combat?

According to the on-video comments, he "uses inertia" to clear malfunctions. That's beyond stupid to begin with. He's clearing what is possibly a live round by banging the butt stock onto the ground. He should have just retired the weapon until it could be safely (and sensibly) cleared.

I have CTRs on both of my ARs, and I doubt that ANY plastic buttsock is going to be able to withstand repeated "inertia" tests. It sounds more like his rifle is in need of honest-to-god repair so that inertia isn't required to clear a malfunction.

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*Aim small, miss small...

After doing some minimal digging around, it seems the Model M&P15X might be a bit more to my liking.

Will have to call around to see who has it in stock.



Justin

Hmmm...me too.

Friction lock seems a great idea, as you can stop the telescoping butt at any point along the buffer tube. How his inertia idea works (or doesn't rather), is beyond me. The point is, the friction lock in terms adamantly resists movement. I don't care if it's a yahoo bangin' an AR on the ground, or something internally that malfunctions afield, the CTR moved and didn't lock. That is the point. Something that moves is not locked. Is magpul the only one who makes this type of stock?

You do not understand how the friction lock works. You can't stop the stock "at any point" along the buffer tube. The CTR still locks into one of the five or six positions on the tube. All that is added is a simple friction mechanism which takes away the sloppiness of the stock on the tube. It is just a piece of plastic that presses up against the tube and locks itself into place, it does not lock the stock to the tube.

Your claim that the CTR stock is somehow prone to breaking, and is a liability to Magpul, is completely wrong and based on your misunderstanding of the stock, how it works, and AR stocks in general.

As to the "Inertia" clearing method which is seen in the video. My issue is not with the technique itself. It is a valid technique in certain situations where you need to clear a round stuck in the chamber, and do not have time or means to do it in a safer manner. Done correctly, it poses to harm to anyone. Yes the stock or tube may break, but that is a risk you take, just like with many field expedient techniques. The issue here is that the guy had fingers wrapped around the buffer tube when he did this. This is an incorrect use of the technique, and when the stock collapsed it crushed his fingers. The rifle was not at fault, the technique was not at fault...he was at fault.

To meanmrmustard directly: I would urge you to ensure you have complete understanding of a topic, and valid points to make, before replying on AR related topics. I am not a moderator, I do not represent anyone on this forum besides myself, and ultimately you can do whatever you want within the forum rules. But remember that anything you post is read by others and may be taken as fact with no further research. We all make errant posts at times with good intentions, but based on a lot of your recent posts, again I would just ask that you consider your knowledge base on certain things before you post. Thank you.

I am aware of what I post and what is fact and fallacy. As you have stated before, you are not a moderator. If you feel the need to belittle anything I say, I urge you to PM with any further "advice" that you may have. I know ARs and have nothing to prove to you. Based on your posts, you put more stock in your own comments than necessary.

I apologize to OP. It is a tangled web we weave when our opinions are our undoing. Welcome to Red China.

The friction lock is only there to prevent the stock from rattling/twisting once the stock has been moved to one of the five/six stop positions on the buffer tube. It's not intended to be the primary means of locking. I seriously doubt the guy in the video wouldn't have properly placed the stock at one of the stops before locking down the friction lever, but noone of us were there (or knows the guy), so all we can do is guess.

It could have been a failure on the part of the buffer tube for all we know. Either way, he was abusing the rifle at the time, and we don't know how many times he may have done it prior to the video. That led me to my assumption that his rifle is in need of some other sort of repair to remedy the actual malfunction. He could even have been using squib loads. We just don't know, and I think it's misdirected to focus on the stock when som other aspect is actually at fault for the malfunction.

Just sayin...

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*Aim small, miss small...

Valid point, especially when reviewing that further. I did however hold an M&P MOE last week, and still think that there was much more play in the hand guard than Id like in my AR. I have seen it myself, and heard from others the same thing. The X variation looks pretty sweet, though. I am still a huge fan of the Sport, in all its basic goodness. Anyway, I may still be getting the CTR despite the stupidity of others, but that Magpul hand guard leaves a little to be desired for me.

Yeah, my MOE stock was loose too, and that's why both of my AR's wear a CTR. I can't say anything bad about the MOE handguard because despite having removed and reinstalled it a few times, it remains as tight and firm as it was when I first purchased the rifle (more than 3000 rounds ago). I'm not a fan of quad-rail hand guards, and even though I find no fault with the MOE unit, I've often considered changing to a floating one. However, that's more than a $200 expense for the one I want, and I'd rather spend that money on ammo.

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*Aim small, miss small...

Alright, M&P15X is for sure the model I plan to go with. Building my own is not a task I wish to undertake at this time.

With an A2 style front post sight, would an Eotech 512 co-witness with the front post sight and rear flip up sight? If it does, great, it it does not, how can one verify which optic will match the rifles height over bore?

Thank you,



Justin

The M&P15 MOE is a pretty nice and pretty much the same thing furniture wise to the Colt 6920MOE though it has a vertical grip.

Either way you will change out parts so if your not sure I would say get a basic Carbine and go from there.

Point very well taken, and I have heard strong recommendations for Colt, BCM, Daniel Defense, Rock River, etc... I checked Noveske, but holy **** those are bloody expensive. I know, you get what you pay for, but damn!

After 3+ months of research (and a slight increase to the AR budget), I bought a Daniel Defense M4 V1. Bought on Monday of this week and I will make it back to the FLL Thursday to pick it up. .

Will post pics if desired.



Justin

JSimmons...you need to verify your information, not all M&P's have the same barrel, and I spent a lot of time in the desert and in the jungle with the old A1's there is a lot to be said for a dust cover, but unless you are in southern arizona or commiefornia living in a tent, the dust cover arguments become very moot and I hate to see little flare ups with people just showing how snobbish they can be. We have members here whose opinions I really trust and like but unless you build your own or buy a "top shelf" brand from someone else they consider the M&P's lower grade, remember milspec is something that the lowest bidder has to meet. sometimes the head butting in here just makes me throw my hands in the air and go WTH!!!!

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Grover Oathkeeper

Definately post pics when you pic it up. Just got my first AR(15 Sport) a couple weeks ago,also live in Illinois,can't wait to go shooting. Have fun!!!

Yep, gotta love it. Even Colt says the 6290 is based off their famed M4, it doesn't say it IS, but rather based off of. Then there are new up start companies that build tighter tolerances then Colt (Core 15 comes to mind), but those aren't any good either, cuz they ain't been around long enough..... etc.

I saw someone in this thread say well what you got here is a OR with no sights... Well Duh, it's Optics ready... That Cabela's 'Moe' (I know, old post) is a good deal. It's OR price with a 100 bucks of magpul stuff on it. I've got that same hand guard on my 15A and I read people say they are no good, loose, etc. Maybe a moron mounted it, mine's tight as hell.

Spikes is starting to get a good rep. Why? They haven't been in a war that I'm aware of. Of course, neither have I. They've been around exactly 10 years. Core 15's been around maybe 3 or 4 year, they're junk. Why? Heck, for the price you can get a Colt, at WalMart no less... Are people supposed to come out with a new AR and price it at 500 bucks just to make it right cuz until it's been around the world and back a thousand times, it ain't ****. It certainly ain't worth what an AR that Law Enforcement uses (6290LE) and available at participating Walmarts here and there.

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

I think that's a great deal personally. I have an OR model and it had you basic furniture. I've added a CTR stock. MOE+ grip, and some MBUS. Mine has a quad rail so I was able to mount the MBUS on to the rail.

Well, it just so happens that I did build my own - after having bought, but before I started modifying my M&P - it's the first rifle on the page:

My Rifles

I don't happen to be in the group that considers a M&P to be a lower-tier gun. It shoots straight, and has digested every type of round I've tried in it. However, I want it to be more like my franken-rifle, so I've been steadily replacing parts. The only thing still original on the gun are the receiver bodies and the barrel and handguard, and the barrel/handguard will be replaced sometime later this year. I suppose by the strictest definition, I can't really call it a S&W any more.

Finally, if someone doesn't see a need for a FA or dustcover, who am I to say he's wrong? I merely presented my reasons for thinking they're a good thing to have.

In cloising, I'd like to point out that I'm not a firearms expert, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

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*Aim small, miss small...

FYI, Magpul has (it seems) made some quality changes to the Carbine, MOE stock. Early ones had some issues, loose fit and heat guard separation amoung them, moron installers notwithstanding.

LMAO!!!!!!

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

many times in this thread where people are getting very antagonistic they talk about a video where some person who evidently swims at the shallow end of the gene pool slams his buttstock down and hurts himself, could someone please post a link to this video so I can see what everyone is talking about.
Thank You Very Much

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Grover Oathkeeper

DD M4V1

Upgrades:

- DD QD Swivel
- More rail ladders (only came with three, needed more to cover all exposed rail)
- Hogue grip
- Magpul AFG1
- Magpul MS3 Sling
- Streamlight TLR1-S



Justin

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