just bought my first rifle AR 15 Sport. Loooking to put a optic on it,looking around i am getting confused. At what point do i really need a magnified optic. What are my best somewhat budget but yet still good optic choices for my first optic whether magnified or not. I am not a hunter just bought to have fun,go to the range do some shooting with. Thanks

personally i don't think u should go cheap, even if you are just plinking on the range. just my opinion though. you already spent some money on a good rifle, i suggest reading reviews and finding something that fits your budget or save up for something reliable and known for its dependability. if you spend $100- $200 on something and it won't stay at zero, or glass breaks etc. u will be very upset. i won't tell you when u need a magnifier, mainly because i'm sick of hearing the response, "well what are you going to use it for?". IF you want one, get one. I just got done paying out the a** so to speak for the eotech exps 2-0 and the g23 3x magnifier. and i don't think i could've done anything different to be happier. of course there went my tax refund but thats what i had planned on using it for anyways. good luck and happy shooting!

I have a Redfield revolution 3-9 it is really nice and has a lifetime full warranty, made in the USA. Redfield is owned by Leupold.

https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_...0red%20dot.htm

This is what I affixed to my 15-Sport.

The Primary Arms M3 Clone with a high cantilever mount. The 3MOA dot is OK.

If you want to add a magnifier later on, you can add on a Primary Arms 3X magnifier on a side swing or QD mount as seen in this pic:



You should also check out the Primary Arms micro dot on a QD mount.

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-John

I have both the M3 and M4 red dots from Primary Arms and they work just fine. They are well built and are great sights for the money. Are there better sights, of course. But for a budget sight Primary Arms are hard to beat and they have great customer service. The Vortex Strikefire is another good budget optic as well.

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gunfighter48
NRA Life Member

From 10-75 yards, you can get MOB1 accuracy from a simple red dot optic. (Minute of Badguy.) For MOA, a 2x or 3x optic is necessary. From 75-200 yards, a 3x9 is ideal. I have a fixed 6x on my ar10, with BUIS. It's a Weaver, and I am partial to these scopes; some are very loyal to Nikon and some to Leupold, and so on. It is meant for 50-300 yard shooting.
Beyond 200 yards, out to say 400, to get anything better than MOB1, you will need a 10-12x scope. Funny, you wind up concentrating on trying to drill paper in a small group you will find in many cases you do nearly as well with good BUIS!
Beyond 400 yards, you need a 16x scope to get real accuracy. Whereas a set of iron sights will still get you on a man size target, you would find that a 3x optic would really struggle to get a real group on a paper target. And truthfully, a 3x9 is out-classed at that range when you are talking about trying to hold to the mystical MOA. At 400 yards, it's size is a good bit larger....16" x 16" is MOA at 400 yards. And that is a TINY target to the naked eye. More likely, you will be reverting to MOB2.......... (Minute of Barndoor)
A good 3x9 is all you will ever need on the average rifle for hunting, or average shooting to say 300 yards. For up close quick shooting , a good red dot is a great way to go.

Alot of good info,thanks. So for most of us AR shooters at the range for fun sounds like a red dot is enough and then add a magnifier for the range for a little farther out. Looking on the Primary Arms site I see they also have a 6x magnifier.Would I be better off with that? Does a magnifier adjust up from 1x to 3x or 6x (depending on what one you have) or is it always just 6x magnified?

If an optic shows a single digit, that's what you get. Like this: Shminky's scope; 6x38. That's a 6 times magnification, and a 38mm lens. A variable will show the equally common: 3-9x40 or similar. 3 thru 9 times magnification, with a 40mm lens.

I will stress it to you; try to look thru several models at a shop, and SEE how well the glass lets light in, how well it does looking into shadows, how good the magnifier really is. See if you really like the reticle it has. For a lit reticle, see if it goes dim enough; you can find deer, hogs, 'yotes in the shadows early and late, and often a scope with a lit reticle will blind the optic if it can not dial down low enough. The price is not always representative of the quality, but to be sure, buy a known quality scope or you will be sorry once it has been shot several times, or you fly with it, or it gets dropped, etc. All of these will make lesser scopes get all kinds of out of whack.

My LGS is holding a firearms manufacturer demo weekend. I went today to check it out. I must be jaded because I just didn't get excited about it. The sales floor was crowded, noisy, and hot. The deals weren't much of a deal.

What did get my attention was the EOTech table. I demoed an Eotech sight, and WOW! Holy moley. While I like my affordable Primary Arms, the Eotech is a million times better. I completely understand why these cost what they cost.

The 1MOA dot, with 20 levels of brightness, crystal clear & fog proof glass. It was real good.

I'm saving my pennies to acquire one. It will give me an excuse to build an optics-only, railed gas block AR for the Eotech.

Tnoutdoors9 did a review of an EOTech 516. The one I was messing with looked a little shorter overall. I also looked at the new one with the "zombie" bio-hazard reticule.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJ_axWuahuE

Hey JaPes what store was this at as i too am in Illinois? What Eotech were you looking at? I was looking around and was checking out the 512. Can a magnifier be used with these?

sorry was just looking at Eotech's website I see the magnifiers

G.A.T. Guns, Dundee, IL.

GAT GUNS - FIREARMS SUPERSTORE

The info for the factory shoot is on the right hand side of the page.

I looked through a XP S2 Zombie Stopper and a regular XP S2, and one that took AA batteries... I think it was a 552

Ya'll can put the Red Dots with the magnifier but doesnt the Magnifier magnify the dot also? I will stick with my 4-16x40 wide field of view scope with the mildot illuminated reticle ....it makes my Sport the ultimate long distance Pdog Gun!!!

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Grover Oathkeeper

Glad to hear you discovered what a quality optic is really like. I gave up trying to tell folks that their $79 whiz-bang look alike really wasn't an EOTech or an ACOG or an Aimpoint. There really is a difference as you now realize. I run an EOTech XPS2 on my FNH SLP shotgun. I personally prefer a scope on my AR but that's just me. You only have to buy a quality optic once....after that, you'll find that the rifle or shotgun or handgun may go away but you'll keep the optic for the replacement firearm.

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Stu

Yes it does. You can't cheat optics.

Yeah. The 3MOA Primary Arms dot works well. It's practical accurate.

I have a Bushnell Trophy "T" dot with a 1MOA dot on my 15-22 that is real nice & easy to see. Glass is clear.

The EOTech... that one took it to the next level.

I recommend a 1-4x power scope. Best of both worlds. Primary Arms makes a 1-4x that is affordable. I have a Bushnell 1-4x on my M&P15-22 that's nice and it was under $100. I'm also looking heavily at this optic. Has great reviews and is calibrated for a .55grain .223 projectile.
Optisan 1-4x24 Mamba / EAR30 Mount Combo

I live in wide open country where there is no cover so to pdog hunt you have to shoot longer distances...I used to be able to plug them with my 22 but anymore they dont come up in 22 range. I end up on 12 to 16 power most of the time

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Grover Oathkeeper

Try looking at the Nikon P223 series scopes. Just added one to my M&P 15OR and its working good. $149.95 for the Nikon versus the $500.00 for a EoTec. The Nikon has a lifetime warrantee and great glass. You really can't beat it. If your going out 300 plus yards, an AR is not what you need.

I like shooting up to 500 yards at the range so I use a higher power adjustable scopes on my rifles.

Attached Images

	M & P 15 quad rail with bipod and 4 x 16 x40 scope 5-4-12 resized.jpg (81.5 KB, 37 views)
	M & P 15-22 with bipod and 3 x 12 x 50E scope 5-4-12 resized.jpg (63.4 KB, 20 views)