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03-10-2012, 11:47 AM
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The AR for home defense
Just wanted to share an article I read in Feb. Guns and ammo I believed is the mag I was reading.
As it goes into detail on the 223\5.56 round being better suited for the home, along with the AR, Stating that the light weight high speed ammo will normally come apart when shot through a house, vs. round ball pistol ammo, shotgun slugs and buck shot will penetrate multiple interior surfaces along with hollow point ammo will fill with drywall and exit the home as a solid projectile. I'm not completely sold that if I'm forced to fire in my house that my rounds will not travel past the exterior walls, but they did say say alot about a new high velocity frangible type round that is ment for home defense and will not penetrate a wall of sheet rock, however leave all it's energy on the surface to a depth of 3 inch If I recall.
Also went on to talk about the AR platform being easier to manipulate in the home and more prone to be on point with a follow up shot than a pistol or shotgun when going room to room. I will be sure to post exact magazine name and article when I get it back.
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03-10-2012, 12:26 PM
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03-10-2012, 12:30 PM
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I dont keep my sport in a location where it would be as easy to get to in an intruder situation. My 9mm and 45acp pistols I do though, and the way our tiny house is built (it was a 3 car garage that we turned into a house) I feel IMHO for me the pistols will work just fine. But it I had a bigger or a two story house, heck yeah my sport would be on one of those bed side racks!!
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03-10-2012, 02:18 PM
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Ya, my home is 2 story with only bedrooms up stairs, and the hallway up there looks over the entry way and the living room, tactically I have the advantage over an intruder. My AR is close enough to smell the CLP it's soaked in.
Too many illegals comming into to Tucson from Mexico.
Trust No One, your a terrorist until proven otherwise......
Shoot first, tell him to vacate later !
A law has been put fourth instituting that illegals crossing in to the US will be deemed as terrorist I've read.
and here is how were arlttempting to take care of business.....
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...itia-bill.html
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03-10-2012, 03:03 PM
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Hmm its debatable for sure but I like the AR platform for HD. My wife can handle it proficiently as well so its a good family gun. She is very small and had some issues with the 870
I've heard that for the most common ( as in I'm a gonna buy a crapload of it LOL) 223/5.56 loads the plain jane 55gr FMJ (XM193) is a better choice against than the 62 gr greentip stuff (XM855) for HD/PD as it reaches terminal velocity faster.....
I roll w/ the 55gr Zmax for now but I'd like to try out that PDX load as well as the 77gr Mk262 esque loads. $$$$$$$$$$$!
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03-10-2012, 07:30 PM
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SSGt M,
You may find this video interesting.
5.56mm NATO XM193: Drywall & Ballistic Gel Test - YouTube
I like tnoutdoors9's channel. He performs amateur ballistics tests that are very entertaining.
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03-11-2012, 11:22 AM
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I use a pistol with Hornady Critical Defense ammo for my house gun. I do keep an AR in my safe room. I feel you really need to be careful where you launch rounds in a home, especially if you have kids in other rooms or have neighbors close by. When you use any weapon in a home you have to keep a tactical mindset and know what angle to shoot and not to shoot and where that bullet is going to end up landing. Spray and pray is not an option. You are accountable for ever round that leaves that muzzle.
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03-11-2012, 12:13 PM
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I currently have my 300 whisper sitting beside my bed, a LCP, LC9, SR9c and a M&P 40c loaded to the left of where I sleep. I want to add a tactical shotgun and maybe a crossbow with explosive tipped arrows, buz they look really cool in Rambo.
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03-11-2012, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crracer_712
and maybe a crossbow with explosive tipped arrows, buz they look really cool in Rambo.
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Interesting article, but I'm not sure I'm sold on the supposed lack of overpenetration. Also, what about the decibel factor of firing an AR indoors vs. a pistol? Sure, staying alive is more important, but I'm also very fond of my hearing. Even though I have a light on my AR, I'll be more inclined to go with my XDM 9mm with laser/light attachment for home defense...if I can't get enough stopping power with 19 rounds of hollowpoint ammo, then it just wasn't meant to be
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03-11-2012, 07:55 PM
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Yeah my favorite HD weapon is my 45acp, but I also have a single shot 16 gauge with slugs in the butt-stock bandolier. I really dont have to worry about over penetrating the neighbors houses are far enough away, but having large chunks of lead to throw around keeps me comfortable.
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03-11-2012, 09:33 PM
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There are a lot of variables (ammo, home layout, proximity to neighbors...), but an AR is rarely one of the better options for home defense, IMHO.
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03-11-2012, 09:46 PM
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In any case,
The pump of a shotgun,
Slamming a bolt into battery in the AR,
Rack the slide on your favorite pistol,,,
Most of the break in storys I've read ended with out a shot fired due to the sound of a weapon coming down the hall. I personally like the AR due to how my house is built. But a short tac. Shotgun would also do well.
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03-11-2012, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSgt M
In any case,
The pump of a shotgun,
Slamming a bolt into battery in the AR,
Rack the slide on your favorite pistol,,,
Most of the break in storys I've read ended with out a shot fired due to the sound of a weapon coming down the hall. I personally like the AR due to how my house is built. But a short tac. Shotgun would also do well.
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Only thing a bad guy might hear from my HD weapon is the click of me flipping of the safety. If choose to deploy the Glock they won't even hear that.
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03-11-2012, 10:15 PM
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Frangible ammo in it.....
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03-11-2012, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grjfer
Only thing a bad guy might hear from my HD weapon is the click of me flipping of the safety. If choose to deploy the Glock they won't even hear that.
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This. I dont want them to know where I am or even if I/we are in the house, if possible. IMHO the sound of an HD weapon racking is overrated as a deterrence to violent crime, especially someone crazy enough to kill.....
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03-11-2012, 10:28 PM
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I would not have an AR anything in my house.
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03-11-2012, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amazingflapjack
I would not have an AR anything in my house.
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that is your choice, I have a lot of weapons that arent AR's but now I have an AR and it is fun, it may not be the most practical but Its my life and my choice. Have a good day sir!
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03-12-2012, 06:55 AM
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I have my M&P15 with a 10rd mag full of Win PDX123's, Insight M3 next to my bed. Also have an M&P9 with a TLR2s. Both are ready just in case. After reading this and a few other articles online, I really started to think about my AR as a primary HD weapon. I purchased the 10rd mag just for this and have been practicing double taps @ 7yds at the range using the light. I have to adjust my Eothech's POA about 3" high. If something goes bump in the night, I will probably grab the AR first.
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03-12-2012, 08:48 AM
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I to have read articles on the very same topic. I like the idea of 30 rd mags vs 10 or even 17rds. Everytime I see tactical forces in training, they ain't carrying pistols.. Heck, I have everything at my fingertips, including my 590a1..
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03-12-2012, 09:17 AM
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Being retired, and no kids or grand kids in the house, I keep a loaded gun hidden and easily accessible in every room of the house except the bathrooms, and an alarm system monitors the entire house. This includes a S&W MP9 w/Viridian green laser under my pillow, 12 gauge w/00 buckshot, a .308 bolt, 30-30 carbine, a S&W MP9c, a S&W Bodyguard 380, and my SP-15 which I keep under the bed.
If the zombies attempt a break-in, they better do it while I'm on the throne in the bathroom, otherwise, they're gonna look like Swiss cheese when the meat wagon comes to pick 'em up.
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03-12-2012, 09:37 AM
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Weapons are merely tools. The real question here should be are YOU proficient in tactical use of WHATEVER weapon you use for home defense?
Do you have a plan in place should an intruder break in?
Do all others know the plan and practice where to go, what to do AND what not to do?
Personally, penetration concerns aside, I believe your REALISTIC training as opposed to a vague mental picture of what you would do, is far more important than choice of weapon, it merely being an extension of AND limited by, the skill and training of the operator.
Chinese proverb, " Expectations are the source of all disappointment."
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03-12-2012, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocinsomniac
Being retired, and no kids or grand kids in the house, I keep a loaded gun hidden and easily accessible in every room of the house except the bathrooms, and an alarm system monitors the entire house. This includes a S&W MP9 w/Viridian green laser under my pillow, 12 gauge w/00 buckshot, a .308 bolt, 30-30 carbine, a S&W MP9c, a S&W Bodyguard 380, and my SP-15 which I keep under the bed.
If the zombies attempt a break-in, they better do it while I'm on the throne in the bathroom, otherwise, they're gonna look like Swiss cheese when the meat wagon comes to pick 'em up.
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I love it, way to go.... but I thinks you needs to drop an M&P behind the toilet....
one thing is certain.... bet you're pretty proficient in the bathroom!!
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Last edited by turbo38gn; 03-12-2012 at 10:16 AM.
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03-12-2012, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo38gn
I love it, way to go.... but I thinks you needs to drop an M&P behind the toilet....
one thing is certain.... bet you're pretty proficient in the bathroom!!
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Workin' on it.......A S&W Governor would be a perfect resident for my bathroom medicine cabinet drawer. LOL
Product: Model GOVERNOR®
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03-12-2012, 11:22 AM
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Interesting article, but it sounded more like a product placement for the AR15 and Winchester ammo. I still prefer my M&P9 for home defense, followed if necessary by my Saiga 12 loaded with buckshot. I can't imagine shooting my AR IN my house. Hold on home invader while I throw some ear plugs in...
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03-12-2012, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSgt M
Ya, my home is 2 story with only bedrooms up stairs, and the hallway up there looks over the entry way and the living room, tactically I have the advantage over an intruder. My AR is close enough to smell the CLP it's soaked in.
Too many illegals comming into to Tucson from Mexico.
Trust No One, your a terrorist until proven otherwise......
Shoot first, tell him to vacate later !
A law has been put fourth instituting that illegals crossing in to the US will be deemed as terrorist I've read.
and here is how were arlttempting to take care of business.....
Arizona bill would fund militia
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Oh the Federal Government will try to have a field day with this one!!
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03-12-2012, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaPes
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Interesting indeed, looks like I'm finding some HD ammo.
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03-12-2012, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oneyeopn
Oh the Federal Government will try to have a field day with this one!!
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there are a couple nonprofit orgs already assembled and tracking illegals on private property.
Most states have a militia, however there mission is dedicated to disaster preparedness, not detaining illegals. This country is millions in the hole due to illegals, education, health care and financial services.
Most of the nation is unaware of how bad our southern boarder really is.
Basically the feds aren't doing a good enough job, wr the people are just trying to protect our back yard.
I for one embrace this action.....
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03-12-2012, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocinsomniac
If the zombies attempt a break-in, they better do it while I'm on the throne in the bathroom, otherwise, they're gonna look like Swiss cheese when the meat wagon comes to pick 'em up.
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Toss a Glock in the toilet tank...
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03-12-2012, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amazingflapjack
I would not have an AR anything in my house.
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Why? As I said, I don't think an AR is a very good HD gun in most situations. But I don't understand where you're coming from; especially since this is the M&P 15 forum.
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03-12-2012, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawkhuntclub
Why? As I said, I don't think an AR is a very good HD gun in most situations. But I don't understand where you're coming from; especially since this is the M&P 15 forum.
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He wouldn't have one, because he read my explosive tipped arrow remark and is now seeing the light. Go big, or go home. That's Rambo's mott!
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03-12-2012, 02:44 PM
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I am interested in the uses of an AR, including for home defense. I recently bought an M&P15 because it did not cost any more than many of my handguns and well, things are bad but it will probably get worse. I have taken it to the range a couple times and found it very enjoyable to shoot. In my current home I can't forsee ever possibly needing it, but I am glad to have it nonetheless.
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03-12-2012, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSgt M
Interesting indeed, looks like I'm finding some HD ammo.
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Yup!
IMO, it doesn't matter what firearm you choose to defend your home. Choose whatever makes you feel is prudent for your home, area, and comfort level.
Keep in mind that I live in Illinois, the land of no carry. Here's my HD lineup.
Glock 19 Gen4. Night sights, Insight M3 light, Hornady Critical Defense. It's my night stand gun.
Benelli SuperNova Tactical 12ga. 2 X bird shot. 2 X 00-Buck. Slugs on the saddle. Not easily accessible, but it's there.
Ruger LCP loaded with Hornady Critical Defense.
Can't carry outside the home, but when I'm inside the LCP & a spare mag are in my pocket. Watching TV, doing laundry, cooking dinner, bathroom breaks, it's on me. The tactical butter knife is just icing on the cake.
Honestly the AR's are fun guns. It's a nice secondary bonus that if I'm caught in an acronym class emergency, the AR's are there.
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03-12-2012, 02:53 PM
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Just FYI. Buckshot is amoung the most likely projectile to over penetrate and for that reason has limited function as home defense ammo.
Again, skill, knowledge, practice and a solid plan your household knows how to follow is the most important element in home defense.
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03-12-2012, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawkhuntclub
There are a lot of variables (ammo, home layout, proximity to neighbors...), but an AR is rarely one of the better options for home defense, IMHO.
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Or.....another version is:
There are a lot of variables (ammo, home layout, proximity to neighbors...), and an AR is certainly one of several options for home defense, IMNSHO.
I've taken several practical rifle training courses where I've used my AR-15 from close contact (i.e., the bad guy can grab the barrel he is so close) out to 200 yds. If you haven't had professional training where an AR is used/taught for home defense, take the time to do so. I wouldn't hesitate to use mine to stop a threat in my home.
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03-12-2012, 03:47 PM
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ar for home defense
The TAP ammo is designed for indoor / home defense. It expends its energy on hitting an object and is less likely to over penetrate.
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03-13-2012, 12:02 AM
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I experimented with some nonlethal 12 ga ammo yesterday for a friend.....
Rubber buck shot and rubber slug.
at 15 ft. this stuff is just shy of lethal. My test subject, 2 sheets of 1/4 in. card board, with a t-shirt over them shredded.
Now I have a good shirt with holes through and through. All the projectiles also dented a sheet of drywall 1/4 in. deep. I was actually expecting it to hit really hard bud not go through a shirt and separated sheets of 1/4 in. card board and out the back if the shirt. I don't want to get hit with ****.
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03-15-2012, 10:47 PM
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I used to be a member of a sheriff's tactical unit, and we did ballistic testing with all of our weapons. We found the AR when loaded with 55 grain soft points or hollow pointswhere actually safer then 9mm, .40sw, and 12 gauge anyt
Hing when it came to CQB in a normal structure. A normal wall with drywall on both sides would effectively stop these rounds and if you did get any fragmentation to exit the other side, it did not have enough energy to be lethal. On the other hand all the handgun (Glock 22), SMG (HK MP-5 in 9mm), and Shotgun (Benelli M1Super 90, 14" entry barrel) penetrated both layer of drywall with lethal energy on other side. I would not believe it either if I had not participated and seen the results with my own eyes.
That being said, I would use my AR ad an HD weapon, but I also would keep in mind my target and what is behind my target, and the angle of my shot, before ever pulling the trigger.
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03-16-2012, 10:52 AM
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I think I'm going with the 240Bravo for HD, perhaps I can overpenetrate my dang neighbor's stereo..........
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03-16-2012, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splittiebus66
I think I'm going with the 240Bravo for HD, perhaps I can overpenetrate my dang neighbor's stereo..........
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LOL Man I would have loved to have sights like that on my M60A1...wouldnt add much weight but think of the firepower.
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03-18-2012, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSgt M
Ya, my home is 2 story with only bedrooms up stairs, and the hallway up there looks over the entry way and the living room, tactically I have the advantage over an intruder. My AR is close enough to smell the CLP it's soaked in.
Too many illegals comming into to Tucson from Mexico.
Trust No One, your a terrorist until proven otherwise......
Shoot first, tell him to vacate later !
A law has been put fourth instituting that illegals crossing in to the US will be deemed as terrorist I've read.
and here is how were arlttempting to take care of business.....
Arizona bill would fund militia
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SSGT M, I feel strong about this as well and somewhat agree with you, but the Feds are "never" going to come down heavy enough on illegals and declare them "terrorists" The Feds will wait until an illegal smuggles a dirty nuke in an detonates it in the U.S. before they start being more proactive. Just like 9/11/01 they do too little way too late.
I apologize to everyone for going off topic.
Last edited by TangoFoxtrot; 03-18-2012 at 09:18 AM.
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03-20-2012, 04:58 PM
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Just added a tac, light to my home defense AR, from Ncstar, ATFLB, LED, very good light imo,
All aluminum, 65 lumens and blinding. I warn anyone to not look directly at one. Comes with what looks like a single aluminum rifle scope mount, fits nice on my CAA rail, very solid. Came with batts ready to go, just a quick 1/4 turn and it's on. It's nicer than expected for the price.
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Light, Accurate,Versatile M&P
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223, 380, 45acp, benelli, bodyguard, carbine, glock, hornady, mp9c, projectiles, ruger, scope, smith & wesson, smith and wesson, tactical, winchester |
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