I bought a new M&P15-TS!! and I am looking for any other handloaders out there. What kind of rounds are you loading up?

Bullet gr:
Bullet Type:
Powder Type:
Powder gr:

I was reading around and didn't find much info, but I did read a thread about using heavier bullets on this AR as it has the 1:7 twist barrel.

I am looking for any loads you guys are cooking up, but I am looking for:

cheap plinking loads 100-150yrds
target loads 100-200yrds
and also a varmint load 100+ yards

Also where are you buying your brass and projectiles? I know some of you will post some crazy cheap plinking reloads that are $0.05/shot and not post where you get those insanely cheap projectiles!

What range are you getting with this rifle for varmints? I've read that effective range for the .223/5.56 is about 250yards for varmint? Seems low?

Thanks for all your input!

I havent started reloading yet but have started collecting the materials. As far as Brass, I am buying nothing now but reloadable brass, for instance Monday I get 1000 rounds of Federal, Plus I have about 250 rounds of different stuff with reloadable brass cases.
I havent decide what powder to use yet, but I will use CCI small rifle primers.
Bullets, Hornady V-Max 55 grain boat tail and Nosler 60 grain Ballistic Tip Spitzer Boattails I have 100 of each so far. I am just going to try experimenting and see what works, there are some 70 and 80 grain bullets that I want to try. I have a set of Lee Dies brand new ready to be used and I have a lee classic press. My Dad has a turret press that he doesnt use and I am going to see if I can set it up and use it. I can be very precise with my classic press, I load all of my 8x57's and 45 long colts presently and have made some really nice accurate loads but I have learned that you dont always have to load to the max although I do have some compressed loads that I like. This will be another of lifes learning experiences!! Also I shoot pdogs over 200 yards and they still dont make it back to their holes!!

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Grover Oathkeeper

For cheap plinking loads, you are going to have a hard time reloading for less than the cost of steel cased ammo.

Your Target and Varmit loads should probably be the same, reload for targets, if you do it right, you'll see a world of difference in 3 shot groups with your reloads than you will with some of the cheaper brass commercial loads. Your reloads will be more consistent with the higher end commercial loads that cost a LOT more than the econimcal rounds that will shoot 2 to 3" groups (the economical rounds, not the higher end stuff).

I was shooting a box of Winchester in my 30-06 tonight and best I was coming up with was 3-4" groups, with only one shot in the bullseye. Switch to 3 rounds of my reloads and laid all 3 round in the bullseye, touching each other. For my 30-06, I use IMR 4530 and for bullets, I was using some cheap 180 grain soft points from Midway, cases were whatever I had from previsouly shot commerical ammo (although I have a box of 100 new brass, just never used them). I don't recall the actual cost of my reloads, but I do know they are a little cheaper than the 20.00 box of commercial reloads.

When I load for 223 (I don't have the dies right now), I'll look in my book for loads that utilize a powder that I like with a weight that I want to use, and I'll just work it up from the books recommendation and see how it goes.

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

So looks like $4.59 per 20rnds of cheap steel ammo for plinking.

My dad has a 22-250 and uses the 55gr vmax bt for varmint, I know he uses the vmax bt, but not sure on the 55gr, I think they have a 70gr as well. But I think he does use the 55gr.

So maybe I will order some of the 55gr vmax bt and try working up some loads with them. I see there is 90gr bullet out there too for longer range, may have to grab a box of those to do some testing.

I will probably be using CCI 400 primers for my .223 loads. Looks like those are what everyone recommends on other sites. I usually use cheap wolf primers in my 9mm and .45ACP pistols, but was reading about possible slap fire on AR's because the firing pin is free floating and may tap the primer when feeding and set it off. Same article mentioned possible primer piercing as well. So I think I'm set on using the CCI 400 as they have a thicker case and aren't as sensitive.

I use CCI primers on everything I load, they just seem to work well

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Grover Oathkeeper

Now see, I have always used winchester, and they have always worked

Actually, I have used some CCI, I just generally buy what ever is cheaper between the two (when I have a choice), or which ever the LGS has in stock when I don't buy online.

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

Reloading joke: So.....what's the best thing a stripper can bring to a party?
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A whole bunch of friends!



10 rounds per stripper clip = plenty of range practice time.

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Stu

that's a lot of reloading!

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

wow...I never even thought about that!!

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Grover Oathkeeper

@arizona98tj

WOW!! That's a lot of ammo! 2,300+ rounds it looks like!!

Well I just ordered some Lake City once fired brass.. 3,000pcs $165

Just bought:
100pc 60gr vmax $16.17
100pc sierra 60gr HV HP varmint $14.30
100pc sierra 65gr HV SBT GameKing $17.05
50pc sierra 77gr HPBT MatchKing $12.67

So I will be using these for my testing.
H4895 is the powder I'm looking at, but not 100% sure on that.

I have 1 1/2 lbs of IMR4895...guess its time to go to the load charts...and get ready to make some accurate ammo. Just looked it up on IMR's site. 25.2gr (c) with a 60 grain Hornady V-Max gives me 3052 ft per sec Muz Vel. Using H4895 with 26 gr gives me 3175 and using a 55 gr reg bullet with 26 grains of H4895 give 3315...gonna have to research this more using the H4895 and a 55 grain bullet doesnt compress the powder but a 60 grain does. and with my IMR4895 all the loads appear to be compressed According to some charts I was reading a 1-8 barrel twist destabilizes after about 3260 ft per sec, so I need to stay under that velocity

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Grover Oathkeeper

15 years ago I was loading 26grn of Varget with a 60 grn Hornady hollow point bullet and getting 5/8 in groups at 100 yards. The rifle was a Olympic Arms PCR with a 20 in heavy barrel, not a bull barrel and had a Busnell 4X12 scope. If i remember correctly it had a 1 in 8 twist. The enclosed picture is of 30 rds fired unsupported at 25 yrds. I found a box of my hand loads, about 3 wks ago, from 15 years ago and they shot great, even if the shooter can't do so good anymore!! These were shot with my M&P Sport with a Primary Arms M3 red dot sight.

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gunfighter48
NRA Life Member

Still dang sure 1MOBG

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Grover Oathkeeper

@oneyeopn
I can't find the thread, but was talking about cheap ammo and you were asking about .223 vs 5.56 and someone mentioned an article. I think I found the article he was talking about.

223 Rem + 223 AI Cartridge Guide

has some loads I'm going to try as well.

But as far as I've found .223 pressure is 50,000 max and 5.56 is 60,000 max... So you can load your 5.56 hotter than your standard .223

You can run .223 ammo through 5.56 barrel, but can't run 5.56 through a .223 barrel, may have too high of pressures.

Speaking of high pressures.. this is what happened to me this weekend:

HiPoint .45 blew up on me.. had an undercharged bullet get stuck in barrel then ran a regular charged bullet through it... BOOM..

Wow are you alright? I have that same pistol and I love it but dang man....I always visually check my powder before I load the projectile...I can see that it really is a good thing to do. Also let me know how your .223 reloading goes as far as accuracy!!

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Grover Oathkeeper

Yeah I'm fine, thanks. Well I had 5 bullets under charged doing some testing. 230gr pushed with 2gr. bullseye.. didn't make it out the barrel Was going for a slow slow load.. was wanting around 400-500fps.. so I went below minimum. Then followed by 230gr pushed with 5.5gr bullseye... and blew my gun up.

But gun was great, even shot 230gr FMJ @ 100 yards @ an old 8" metal bell and was ringing it easily.

Most of my supplies have been shipped for the .223 just waiting on them. I still need to grab dies. Probably just pick them up at local shop as I don't think I will find them anywhere online significantly cheaper.

Max: Glad to hear you're okay. Looks like that could have really stretched your trigger finger.

I picked up dies and a case length gage ( I still measure them) from reloaders choice for about $35 off ebay, LGS doesnt carry reloading supplies

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Grover Oathkeeper

Kaboom sucks, no matter the gun. Atleast you ok.

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Light, Accurate,Versatile M&P

Finally worked up some loads and had some range time with them. The loads I've tested so far was:

*$0.276/shot*-60gr Hornady V-MAX + 25gr H4895 + WSR + LC09 Brass (Estimated 3155fps)
*$0.257/shot*-60gr Sierra HV HP Varminter + 25gr H4895 + WSR + LC09 Brass (Estimated 3155fps)
*$0.281/shot*-65gr Sierra Spitzer BT GameKing + 24gr H4895 + WSR + LC09 Brass (Estimated 3000fps)
*$0.360/shot*-77gr Sierra HPBT MatchKing + 23gr H4895 + WSR + LC09 Brass (Estimated 2750fps)

The *Price/Shot* is for everything; brass, primers, powder, and projectiles.

The 65gr Sierra and 60gr V-MAX did the best groups at 100yards. I still need to test 55gr V-MAX, 55gr Sierra ballistic tip, then maybe try almost same loads using Varget powder instead of H4895

I haven't shot them yet. In fact I haven't gotten the bullets yet. But the best I can do right now on reloads is about 19 cents a round. These are soft point wad cutter Hornaby 55
55gr bullets, cci primers and Accurate 2520 powder. Of course I have the brass.

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thumbs
Souderton, Pa.

I read somewhere that wadcutters wont stabilize very well in a .223 but I dont remember and it could be bs

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Grover Oathkeeper

Don't know to tell ya the truth. I'll find out though.LOL I sure hope they will I just bought a bunch.

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thumbs
Souderton, Pa.

Hi, new guy here. I think that you may be confusing WC - (with cannelure) for wad cutter.

Thanks but I think it is a wad cutter. Take a look at the way it was written.

HRN 22c (.224) 55gr SP WC BULLET w/Cannel.

The way it is written here could go either way. Idono The say WC Bullet but in another font it seems to clarify what the WC means with the lower case w/Cannel.

Is there a way to tell by looking at the pict??

I don't know what it really means what do you think??

thanks

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thumbs
Souderton, Pa.

the wadcutter's I have seen all have a flat nose the circumference of the bullet. But I havent had much experience with them. I honestly have never bought any.

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Grover Oathkeeper

I've been away from shooting and reloading for a while. I don't know of any Factory wad cutter rifle bullets. I seem to remember some people who would cast their own wad cutter bullets to load for rifles.

Like I said I may have jumped to conclusions on this thing. I saw WC and "assumed" wad cutter. These are soft point, pointed bullets with the lead tip exposed. They also have a channel cut around the circumference of the bullet. I'm beginning to think they are not wad cutters.

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thumbs
Souderton, Pa.

Ok hopefully this weekend I can shoot @ 200yards. I have the same loads above ready and working up some 55gr vmax w/moly coat and 55gr sierra ballistic tip. Probably going to go with 26gr H4895 + WSR + LC09 maybe a few 27gr as well but not sure if that's pushing it too much as I can't ever find load data for any of my bullet/powder combo's so I am going mostly off of others or calculations.

Ok I am loading two different rounds
55 gr Hornady V-Max
26.8 gr. CFE223
CCI #41 Primers for 5.56
OR
55gr Hornady Z-Max
26.8 gr CFE223
CCI #41 Primers for 5.56
they should be cooking around 3100fps
will try them out tomorrow, my IMR4895 that I was using left me less than satisfied

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Grover Oathkeeper

Found a Nosler loading manual online. Has H4895 25.5gr on a 60gr bullet at 3219fps and IMR4895 25.5gr on a 60gr bullet @ 3131fps so I think my loads using 25gr H4895 on a 60gr bullet above the fps I estimated is wrong, I had 3050fps that I estimated, but it's probably closer to 3155fps

25gr * 3219fps / 25gr = 3155.882fps if you do a ratio. So I will change the above information I had on my loads to 3155fps

You will probably have better luck with the 55gr V-max than the 55gr Z-max. The Z-max is hollow point filled with soft foam. I found the hollow points I tried didn't do as well as something with a solid tip, whether it was the V-Max plastic tip (ballistic tip) or the Sierra lead tip. I don't know if the hollow points are expanding too early due to spinning so fast in a 1:7 twist barrel or what.

I still had good groups with the hollow points, just not as good as the bullets with a solid tip. The hollow points I was getting around 1/2" groups at 100yards, and the solid tip bullets were getting around 1/4" groups at 100yards regardless of the weights of the bullets. The 77gr Sierra I used was hollow point and was getting 1/2" groups @ 100yards same with the 60gr hollow points.

So I think I'm going to stick with loading the solid tip bullets for now. I still have a few hollow points left that I'm going to try at 200yards hopefully tomorrow along with the other rounds I had above.

EDIT: Sorry, guess the Z-Max are not hollow point filled with soft foam, I thought they were cause the 9mm Zombie bullets I have are foam filled. But looks like the .223 Z-Max are solid plastic, I can't tell by photos.

MaxHax...the CFE223 is the best powder I have ever loaded with. It is a ball and meters perfectly. Every round came out the with the same charge. when I compared the V-Max to the Z-Max the bullets appear to be identical except for the ballistic tip. On the V-max the tip is .115 long and on the Z max it is .14 long
I just broke out my calipers and the extra bullets 1 each from a 100 round bag of each. The bullets are z max .816 and v max .814 long, probably supposed to be .815 and within tolerance. We are going shooting this evening so I will be able to tell on accuracy later. I just know that the CFE223 meters way more consistently than the IMR4895 in such a small charge. Also this thread probably should have been in the reloading section.

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Grover Oathkeeper

So the Z-Max is the same hard plastic as the v-max?

it appears to be...I was just at the local wally world..25 miles away they were selling Z-max .223 for $19.98 a box of 20. the way I calculated it thats over a buck a shot after taxes. I just loaded 100 of them for about, I dont know exactly but I am figuring about $.23 a shot.

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Grover Oathkeeper

Well I didn't get any shooting in this past weekend, but hopefully this weekend I'll get to test out some of my new loads.

All loads are LC09 brass, WSR primer, COL 2.26", and H4895
55gr V-Max w/Moly - 25gr
55gr V-Max w/Moly - 25.5gr
55gr V-Max w/Moly - 26gr
60gr V-Max - 24.5gr
60gr V-Max - 25gr
60gr V-Max - 25.5gr
65gr Spitzer BoatTail - 23.5gr
65gr Spitzer BoatTail - 24gr
65gr Spitzer BoatTail - 24.5gr

Have 30 rds of each loaded up for testing. If I have time may also do some loads with 77gr Sierra MK

I still need to buy some Varget and also the CFE223 you mentioned, ball powder sounds like something I want to use. I haven't used any ever for pistol or anything, I always wanted to try some to see how well it comes out of my powder thrower. As of not with the stick powders and flake powders I use I always have powder thrower slightly under weight and then trickle in cause I can't get stick or flake powders to come out of thrower consistently.

I have a spreadsheet I made if you want me to post it for calculating cost of loads. You enter quantity and price of each component, amount of powder, and how many times you reuse your brass and it will calculate price per shot.

Here is the load calculator I made. There is OpenOffice.org format and Microsoft Excel..

I had to zip them to allow forum to upload.

Attached Files

	load-cost-openoffice.zip (6.9 KB, 16 views)
	load-cost-msoffice.zip (1.8 KB, 13 views)

MaxHax...thank you very much let us know which ones are the most accurate

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Grover Oathkeeper

Those prices seem pretty high. Are you not reloading your own brass? Buying bullets in bulk will really help keep costs down. I can load 55 grn .223 for around 11 or 12 cents a round.

The way I figured it...I am in the middle of changing out computers and dont want to download any more software...All of my brass is once fired so I didnt charge anything for the brass. But because I bought my Z-max in a 500 bullet lot and my V-max in a 250 lot. My cost of loading is $.23 Z max and $.25 V max, I am using CFE223 and CCI #41 5.56 primers. so for now I am happy with that cost versus $.40 a shot which is the cheapest I can buy around here but with over 1200 pieces of brass (mostly loaded right now) I shouldnt have to buy bullets for a while

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Grover Oathkeeper

You're using a lot better quality bullet in those z and v max. So if you compare your reloading cost to that of the factory ammo in z or v max, it's going to look even better.

I like to average my cost. 84 bucks for a 1000 55 FMJ, 65 bucks for 500 zmax, that averages out to .10 cents a bullet. Powder and primers are going to be the same cost no matter what bullet i use. And I too do not count my brass. That just complicates the matter.

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

I have a nifty excel file that figures out your exact cost with powder, primers, bullet, brass, etc. If I knew how to post it here I would. lol

We have a new computer and when I get done transfering pictures off of this one it will have Office on it. I could use a nice spreadsheet as it is I have to do the match longhand

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Grover Oathkeeper

Let me know and I could email it to you.

as I posted earlier the results of the 26.8 CFE223 in the Vmax and the Zmax are outstanding...the following pics are the results shot yesterday the really tight one is at 100 yards the other 3 are at 200 yards.
5_4_12 Z-Max 100yrds.jpg

5_4_12 Z-Max 200yrds3.jpg

5_4_12Z-Max200yd1.jpg

5_4_12Z-Max200yd2.jpg

I am pretty darn happy

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Grover Oathkeeper

ICEMAN: yes, I am reloading my brass. I thought the prices of those loads were pretty good. The only things that cost the most was the bullets themselves as I didn't buy them in bulk. I wanted to run tests on them to see which bullet worked the best before I bought that bullet in bulk. Almost everything except powder and primers were bought online so I did have shipping costs involved as well.

ICEMAN: Also I posted a spreadsheet a few posts up that you can calculate the exact cost of each shot as well. Calculates everything amount of powder, primer, brass, projectile. If you load 24gr of powder vs 24.5gr it will even calculate for that.

so how did they shoot

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Grover Oathkeeper

Finally got time at 200yards to test all these loads, which are in order by most accurate out of my rifle:
NOTE: All loads are using H4895 powder, WSR primers, LC09 brass, 2.26" OAL
60gr V-Max, 25.5gr (1.7" groups @200yds)
60gr V-Max, 25gr (1.75" groups @200yds)
60gr Sierra HV HP Varminter, 25gr (1.75" groups @ 200yds)
77gr Sierra HPBT-Match, 23gr (1.8" groups @200yds)
60gr V-Max, 24.5gr (1.8" groups @ 200yds)
55gr V-Max w/MolyCoat 25.5gr (1.85" groups @ 200yds)
55gr V-Max w/MolyCoat 26gr (1.9" groups @ 200yds)
55gr Sierra Ballistic BT ((Pulled Bullets)) 24gr (2" groups @ 200yds)
55gr Sierra Ballistic BT ((Pulled Bullets)) 25.5gr (2.25" groups @ 200yds)
65gr Sierra Spitzer BT 23.5gr (2.25" groups @ 200yds)
65gr Sierra Spitzer BT 24gr (2.4" groups @ 200yds)
65gr Sierra Spitzer BT 24.5gr (2.5" groups @ 200yds)

Odd thing is the 60gr and 77gr hollow point sierra's did ****** @ 100yards but decent @ 200yards.

I was bench rested, using bipod, nothing holding butt except my shoulder. So these shots may have been a bit better if I were more steady. I could see slight movement during shots due to my heart beat, but no other movements. I need to find a way to stop heart durring the 2-3 second trigger pulling stage!

Next I am going to be buying some 55gr, 62gr FMJ to try, and also going to buy some Varget powder and also the powder oneyeopn is using CFE223, but I will probably have to pay $20 extra fee for shipping hazmat for the CFE223 as I can't find it locally

Also note these were all 3 shot groups, almost all the groups had 2 holes close and 1 flyer, and I did measure in the flyer.. so some of those 2"+ groups probably could have been better. I also think the Sierra Ballistic tip boat tails would have been better if they weren't pulled bullets. Some had slight denting from the puller which I'm sure messed up there accuracy a bit.

oneyeopn, nice shooting, I need to get some of that powder, looks like you are having good results with it. I also noticed on my scope the horizontal crosshair didn't look exactly perpendicular to my vertical crosshair looks that way on both my CenterPoint Scopes.. didn't seem to effect my shooting though. Does your centerpoint look that way?