the thought of taking up hunting since ive bought my M&P15.. mostly of what we have around is coyotes turkey varmits and deer mostly... wouldnt mind some deer jerky...is .223 good for all that? a couple guys at work seem to think i need something like a 30-06 or like that for deer

so my basic question... whats good to shoot with .223/5.56?

I've been contemplating the same thing. Never been hunting.

From what I understand, your state DNR sets the rules for taking wild game. One of those rules is the minimum caliber required to humanely harvest wild game. Some states it's legal to take a deer with a .223, some states not.

What I want to do is head down south for a feral hog hunt. I think that with the right load, an AR-15 could humanely take a wild hog up to a certain size. The real big ones...hogzilla's... I'm not so sure. They have that shoulder blade that acts like armor. Maybe a green tip penetrator?

Before I take a hog, I want to see how I do shooting outdoors. I know I can place a shot where I want at an indoor range, but out in the open is something different. I want to be darn sure I can put the round where it will get the job done quickly.

That begs other questions. Where do I place the shot as not to ruin the meat? What type of shots should I avoid? What's the correct procedure to field dress a hog?

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-John

The .223 round is plenty good for deer. My son has taken 2 very nice bucks off the King Ranch in south Texas with a single shot Rossi .223 when he was 10 and 11 years old.


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223 is popular for turkey hunting in Texas, longer shots than NC.

luckily ohio DNR hunting regs state "Unless otherwise indicated, game may be taken with longbow, crossbow, or any caliber handgun, rifle, shotgun (10 gauge or smaller), or airgun. Be safe and choose the appropriate method for the species."

but also states for deer
Shotgun – 10 gauge or smaller using one ball or one rifled slug per barrel (rifled shotgun barrels are permitted when using shotgun slug ammunition) – the shotgun cannot be capable of holding more than 3 shells, unless it is plugged with a one-piece filler which limits the capacity of the gun to 3 shells. The filler must be such that it cannot be removed without disassembling the gun.

Muzzleloading rifle - .38 caliber or larger

Handgun – 5-in. min. length barrel, using straight-walled cartridges .357 caliber or larger

Longbow – min. draw weight 40 lbs., includes compound and recurve bows. The arrow tip shall have a minimum of two cutting edges which may be exposed or unexposed minimum 3/4 inch width. Expandable and mechanical broadheads are legal. Poisoned or explosive arrows are illegal.

Crossbow – draw weight no less than 75 lbs. The arrow tip shall have a minimum of two cutting edges which may be exposed or unexposed minimum 3/4 inch width. Expandable and mechanical broadheads are legal. Poisoned or explosive arrows are illegal.

so bite me ODNR... still allowed to shoot coyote wild boar Groundhog, Fox, Raccoon, Skunk, Opossum, Weasel, Squirrel,Cottontail Rabbit, Ring-necked Pheasant, RuffedGrouse, Bobwhite Quail, and Crow

Kansas Its illegal to take deer with a .223 but anything else, except for maybe turkey that I dont know, it legal to hunt with. Some game mostly birds it is only legal to hunt with a shotgun. but I cannot hunt deer with my AR.

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Grover Oathkeeper

What's the minimum caliber to take deer in Kansas?


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I would use the AR for hog, turkey, coyote, bobcat, and other small game. I don't use it for deer, but it will work with proper bullet and placement. I mainly wanted it for hogs. I know this sounds bad, but we wanted high capacity and ability for quick shots. The aim is to eradicate the hogs. They are not an indigenous species, and they have no predators other than humans. The landowner gave us strict orders to shoot everyone of them on sight.

Larger than .23 caliber and a cartridge case that is longer than 1.28 and Elk is .25 caliber and longer than 1.75 inches

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Grover Oathkeeper

This will answer many of your questions...

WILD BOAR ANATOMY, HUNTING WILD BOAR TEXAS, TEXAS HOG HUNTING HEART LUNG SHOT PLACEMNET

I am planning on deer hunting with my Sport this year and leaving my .270 in the safe.


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coyotes .223 is more then enough
deer 270 and up .223 I would only use it if I was spine shooting or head shooting.
turkey you can only use a shotgun
pheasant shotgun
rabbit .22cal or shotgun
hog I wouldn't even think of getting one out for that hunt. I would use .308 + ive seen 30-30 bounce off of big bores.

Disagree with you on deer. My son uses a .243, no problem on Texas Whitetail.

We can take Rio Grand Turkey with a rifle, but not Eastern Turkey.

I have never seen any round "bounce off" of any hog. I have seen them not drop from a 30-06 due to poor shot placement, but nothing bounced off. Some folks hunt hogs with a .17hmr. A well placed shot right behind the ear and they drop. A .223 either right behind the ear or in the vitals will take a hog. They aren't that tough. I've killed one with a 9mm pistol.

.24 caliber or larger.

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

I like a .243 for most North American game - it's more than adequate for deer and I argue that it's plenty of rifle for elk and black bear so long as you place your shots well. .223 is OK for most deer (especially the skinny ones here in South Texas), but you need good shot placement to ensure a reliable kill, which is why many states don't allow it. I personally would prefer not to take a .223 out hog hunting - it's fine for the smaller ones, but (around here) you'll run into some big boys that I wouldn't feel comfortable shooting with a round that small. I've come across some hogs that I wouldn't shoot with anything smaller than a 7mm Magnum (those aren't exactly common, but you do not want to piss off a 400 lb feral hog by merely wounding it)

Taliban?

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This Signature is too Short!

I have to disagree with a post, I have taken wild hog with a 30-30 on numerous occasions in North Central Ok. one shot one kill. 243 is a phenomenal weapon. 270 it a great weapon but it requires shooting skills because of the projectile speed, it can blow right through a deer and if you dont get a vital spot you just end up with a wounded deer. this is all my opinions after hunting over 40 years with numerous calibers and rifles. Kansas legalized 22-250 for one hunting season. Just like the 270 if you didnt hit the deer just right you ended up with wounded animals, there were way to many wounded animals that died long after they were shot to make it a viable weapon so it was outlawed for the next season and since.

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Grover Oathkeeper

^^^^Agree!!


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Most states have a minimum caliber size of .24 for big game take. It leaves the .204, 22-250, 223 out of the deer game. BUT, they are usually allowed for speed goats (Antelope) because they are generally fragile, light boned smaller animals.
In that case, a .243 is the smallest general allowed rifle.
I will put a couple things out here: 1. I feel that if you can get great shot placement, in a place where deer come to feed plots, or to corn chuckers- deer can certainly be killed with a 223. I would NEVER recommend one where longer shots, shooting in cover, looking for those faster moving animals is the likely scenario. Hit placement is no longer a guarantee, and as such- a 200-300lb whitetail is the most amazing athelete you have ever seen. He's got 4 legs, and WILL run, and run, and run. And, maybe even fight back. Bigger bullets, bigger wound channels for greater blood and better penetration thru bone is the choice of experience.
2. There are several great options for the AR platform. But a 6.8SPC, or a 6.5 Grendel upper, and you can A: Legally use the AR for deer, and B. you get much greater knockdown power and better terminal performance against strong, stubborn animals.

Most of my hunting buddies here in Mississippi use large caliber magnums for feral hogs!

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U.S. Navy submarine vet.

In NC you cant use silencers or kill turkeys with a rifle and thats all the restrictions I could find so the AR-15 is ok to use

In my considerable experience shooting coyotes and foxes with the .223, I would suggest that animals of that size are the upper limit of the cartridges' capability for humane, DRT use on game, and consider that even small whitetail deer are inappropriate targets of this round. I know, I know --- lots of people can cite lots of examples of larger game killed with the cartridge, but that doesn't prove that it's genuinely suitable for larger critters. Karamojo Bell famously killed a few African elephants with a .22 rimfire, and actually favored the 7x57 Mauser as his ivory hunting weapon, but that doesn't make the .22 or 7mm Mauser a recommended "elephant gun", and a few fluke successes don't make the .223 an appropriate "deer rifle" round. And, I'll bet that if we knew the whole story, we'd learn that those people using this wimpy cartridge on animals far larger than it's actually adequate to kill humanely, we'd find that there have been plenty of wounded but lost game animals. I suspect that most people using .223/5.56 for hunting are trying to get dual-duty use out of an AR or other "assault rifle" platform, rather than ponying up for a suitably chambered hunting rifle.

WRONG!.... Rule #2 in zombieland is The Double Tap

I myself have a 45 colt as a brush gun for ranges under 100 yards, but I normally hunt with either a .308 or my favorite for now is 8x57 or also known as 8mm Mauser. Which is a 32 caliber bullet. Someday I will have a 30-30 again which is a nice hunting rifle to about 150 yards. I doubt I ever buy another 30-06, dont care for the thump nor any of the magnums for the same reason. But prairie dogs and an occasional coyote is great for the .223/5.56x45 platform.

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Grover Oathkeeper

AR seems ok to me...

Cedar Ridge Aviation Helicopter Pig Hunt (no music) - YouTube

Having done many eradication shoots on pigs, I can tell you what you are not seeing is the volume of wounded that are staggering off, some to live, some to die.
I have put many hogs down with a 223, and it can be done with one, but more often when shooting them on the move it can take 3-5 hits to stop them.
Also, shooting them from the top down gives a much more lethal angle of attack. Broadside shots in the center mass offer less penetration and less 'dropped in their tracks'.

The military uses it for targets and on people.

when used on people the object is to seriously wound, when you wound you take more people out of the battle, besides the person you have wounded seriously you also have the people who have to help their wounded comrade who are taken out of the battle. or at least that is how it was taught to me in the Corps

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Grover Oathkeeper

it's amazing what people will believe, a 30-30 bouncing off a hog! please. i have hunted deer with 223 22-250 220 swift and even 22 hornet all my life i am almost 55 i grew up in the woods. our deer season in sc is aug 15 till jan1 i have a lot of exp. hunting and a 223 at over 3000 fps is very deadly! i have always had a 30-30 on and off most of my life. when i was a kid i shot an old rail road cross tie in the ground stuck up for a post and it went slam through it, that's when i learned about the power of a very low powered tired old 30-30 that would most likley bounce off a hog!

Kudos JaPes

I come from a hunting family. I take it very serious. I have passed up many game because I didnt like the shot. Shot placement is key and knowing the game your hunting is key. 1 shot, 1 kill is everything to me. I respect animals and I don't want any of them to suffer due to my poor shot. Arrow or bullet.
I like your words. I like reading about people who have never hunted and you Sir are on the right track.

Sir we have people from your state who have leased our farm to come deer hunting and they pay the big bucks I might add. They tell me about how small the deer are in SC compared to here. I also know that there have been a lot of deer taken with a 22lr. I have never done it but I know it has happened. Just because people are willing to wound an animal doesnt make it right. I think but am not sure you are allowed to hunt deer with a 22 caliber round. That is great we are not. I do agree the 30-30 is the most overlooked and probably has taken more deer than any other caliber out there.

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Grover Oathkeeper

Man. That's what they were originally made for.

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Forum consigliere

1) Deer in the SE US are dramatically smaller on average then Midwestern deer.
2) The difference in a 223 and a 243 is tantamount to the difference in a 223 and a Red Rider bb gun (maybe a little hyperbole, but still).
3) No question a 22 LR will kill a deer. The question is how far will it go before you find it (if you find it).
4) No ethical hunter head shoots deer, at least not from the side. Too many deer have had their jaws removed this way and had long agonizing deaths.

yes some are small, and some are not. small is a full grown doe of 100lbs i have seen does 150lbs some bucks go up over 200lbs the one in the photo was 200lbs over the years i have killed many in the 190-200lbs range. but most are 130-150 or so. the one in the photo was shot by a 444 marlin, they don't bounce off either. as far as deer hunting with 22 high power rifles, you have to remember we are the south and we have not let the pc police into our world. i have friends that are game wardens and some of them use them also.

here is another one i killed two years ago i don;t know what he weighed but he was a decent 10 point for my area. he was shot with a 6mm rem. 85gr. sierra hp. no bounce there either. it was a shoulder shot. he fell like a switch was cut off.

.223 is legal in Mississippi for deer. I personally have killed three deer with a .223, one buck and two does. All 3 were one-shot kills with lung shots. I used Federal 55 gr Bear Claw bullets. All 3 went down within 30 yards with pass-through shots. So yes, the .223 is good for deer with the right bullet and shot placement. Also a wonderful prairie dog round. Not legal for turkeys in Mississippi.

At what distances are you guys shooting deer at? Those are some really nice animals, I ask because of how we are situated very little woods mostly wide open spaces. Supposedly deer are color blind, I dont know about that they sure seem to be able to see hunter orange LOL. I have set down on the dikes along the lower missisippi in Louisiana and watched the deer come out of the trees into the cut outs for electric lines and pipelines, brush so heavy it makes me wonder how they get through. We dont have that here but we do have deer tons of deer and does that regularly hit 200lbs and Bucks even bigger but if you get closer than 200 yards it is a rarity.

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Grover Oathkeeper

I would like to be able to hunt deer with my Sport, the most fun I have is with my .54 cal thompson hawkins muzzleloader. dont have to wear orange.

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Grover Oathkeeper

I am just an old varmint hunter, former NRA competitor who has burned a few rounds of .223. Bullet placement is the key to all critters. If I were shooting varmints and a deer waundered into my scope (I live in the area where lead free is required) he would meet a Barnes 62 g.
copper hollow point,same with a pig.

If hunting with a .22 family cartridge is legal where you hunt then pick your bullet right.

.270 is a all time favorite of mine. Years ago, I remember hitting a small buck one year. I was using my Brother's .270 Bolt loaded with silver tips.
I lost the entire front shoulder. That bullet blew into fragments that littered the meat. Sure the Buck fell hard, but what about my steaks...what was saved was turned to burger. Never again.
There are many things to take into consideration.

+1 for Tallies!

i have killed deer with a 22-250 approaching 400 yds. but not often. most shots are 100yds or less. the longest shot i ever made was in 1980 it was across a cut bean field. my daddy was in another cut bean field useing a bounce proof 22 hornet. i heard him shoot about dark then i looked across my field with my 4x scope on my 6mm rem. i saw a deer in the scope, i knew he was a long ways. i had no idea about size and in those days being a 23 years old i was willing to give it a try. now i look at things diffrent, a lot diffrent. we would bust water jugs with those rifles way across a field with a rest and holding the crosswires at the top of the jug. so thats what i did with the deer, i was on the ground and braced against a tree and thouhed it off. a ball fire came out the rifle and i thought i missed, i walked across the field and there was a very dead spike horne buck. the bullet hit the bottom of his heart and came out the other side, another inch or so lower and i would have missed. my load was 100 gr. sierra btsp. with 45 gr. of imr 4350 that was my load for years with that rifle, i went over to my daddy and he had a spike that looked just like mine. his was about a 60 yard shot. the next day i stepped my shot off and it was 488 long steps.

What bullet size are you guys using for coyotes, hogs, deer, etc? For example, I personally wouldn't consider using anything less than a 75 grain bullet for deer. Same for hogs, but with a deep penetrator bullet.

What say you?

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God Bless America!

in my 22-250s i used a 70gr. speer semi point sp. for a long time, they worked very good. but they were not the most accurate bullet. then i found a bullet in my hornady loading manual that was recomended for deer. i think the book was around 1979 it was there 60 gr. flat base hp. it is super accurate and very deadly on deer. these bullets have a thicker jacket according to the 1979 hornady book. i know they work to this day and penetrate good.

Kinda glad you shot him. From the looks of him, he probably wouldn't have made it through the winter anyway.

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Forum consigliere

For 'yotes and assorted varmints, the 55 gr. are fine unless you need to buck the wind; if so, a 70 gr would be a bit better. For antelope it's a 90-100 gr. 243. For hogs and deer, I use 165gr. nosler ballistic tips. Unless you use a shoehorn and a hammer, that bullet does not fit in a 223.....!

5.56 mm was designed as a man-stopper, particularly because the round tends to "keyhole" or tumble in people after it strikes, thus dramatically increasing lethality (a product of a high-velocity round weighing 63 gr to 70 gr) -- since Geneva prohibits soft-nose rounds
(all military rounds are FMJ), it effectively sidesteps Geneva. Another consideration was to allow infantry to carry a CBL (combat basic load)
of 300 rounds vs 200 rounds of 7.65 (basic CBL with M-14 -- 10 mags with 20 rounds vs 10 30-rd 5.56 mags).

I've seen a bad guy with an entry wound in his butt and the round ended up traversing up thru his back into his chest -- KIA with 1 round
Ought to stop your average hoodie-wearing burglar when he is trying to jack open your window at home at 3 AM. Would not be my choice for feral hogs but would be for feral people.

Feral people!!!!!! ( The going joke around here is when the bathroom is looking too gamey, and the fridge is a mess, we have 'gone feral')

+ 1

I've found this to be true in my Arkansas and east Texas
deer hunting. The .243 is hard to beat - and factor in the
lower recoil - a youth hunter could use it for a lifetime.
My son and I like to have his .243 along with my 30-06
when we deer/hog hunt.
This topic interests me as well, since I am contemplating
using my sport this year in place of my 30-06, as a designated hog slayer. My son's .243 would take all of the
deer shots.