A buddy of mine just bought a complete RCBS outfit with two presses, scales, several different dies - the whole thing for 150$ off of Craigs list. He's ready to go. All he needs is the powder, primers, and bullets. I could never be so lucky.

No Kidding cass

may just leave the Shop/races early and go see what i can Find at cabelas

__________________
--Stav--

Was your post intended to talk yourself into buying a reloading setup or talk yourself out of it? I'll tell you this: I could never afford to shoot much centerfire if I didn't reload. On the other hand, it is an expensive hobby in itself and you never run out of little doodads you need to buy for this or that. I'd say, start with the pistol caliber stuff first and do that for awhile and then worry about adding the slightly more complicated rifle stuff. It takes a lot of patience to be a good reloader. If you're not a meticulous person who will check and double-check everything, you may not want to do it. Reloading is easy, but it's also easy to make huge mistakes that can be potentially dangerous, even with a single-stage press setup. I've been reloading since sometime around 2001 or 2002 and although I've made a few mistakes, none of them blew up a gun or even came close. About the worst problem I ever had was a run of .223 match ammo that would not chamber because I didn't have the sizing die adjusted quite right. Enjoy!

I did some calculations and came up with some per round costs of my latest effort. My impatience-driven reloads using LGS bought powder and primers ended up costing 23.1¢ per round. I'm not counting the cost of brass as I bought that as pre-loaded ammo which I didn't intend on reloading when I bought it.

Now when my small bulk powder and primer order (16 lbs of powder an 3000 primers) comes in the per round cost will drop to 16.3¢

With the cheapest brass case ammo running over 31¢ a round shipped it's a decent saving.

__________________
- Bill

man oh Man

I have read and Read and watched Videos......

I REALLY REALLy want to reload .223........ but am thinking the Preping is too much TIME and pain for me

Cleaning is easy.... just load and wait for 3 hrs.... no big deal
Case prep.... To bench and PUNCH primer ......
Swagging Primer
Deburring and MORE prep...

Seems i would spend at least an hour per 100 or 150 rds just prepping case (after cleaning)
QUESTION!!! is swaging or prepping primer pocket necessary in remington purchased Brass??????

Am i missing an easier way or process ta get to the RELOADING stage


FREAKING awsome day shooting today for Sure..... thus have spent another 2 hours researching......LOL

Stav

__________________
--Stav--

No, No, No........NO LEAD IN AN AR! I shoot lead in pistol rounds. You should not use lead in any piston gun as it can clog the piston! Also, I have a H & K P7 PSP that has a piston (as well as Polygonal rifling) so I reload .9mm for that gun in Plated or TMJ only! They say not to even shoot FMJ with a lead exposed bottom in that one. Glocks are also polygonal rifling so lead in a no no there too!

G

Stav,
I would suggest you buy some ammo from freedommunitions.com. They sell excellent reloaded .223 rounds which do not have crimped primers. That way you get the immediate satisfaction of going out to the range to shoot, and have a supply of pre-prepped cases to reload.

Based on what I've picked up off the range floor, anything with a colored ring around the primer and all Lake City (LC headstamp) brass will need to be swaged. PMC is about the only other headstamp I routinely find and those are not crimped.

If you buy factory fresh, unprimed brass you should have no problems as the crimping is done after the cases are primed. But if you buy pre-primed Lake City brass those would need to be swaged after the first firing.

__________________
- Bill

I wasnt sure I knew that I wasnt about to run cast bullets in mine but the way you threw that out there I had to make sure. So when you buy your cast bullets do you size them and put gas checks on them or do they come that way?

__________________
Grover Oathkeeper

When you buy bullets, you just load them and shoot them. I do not use gas checks and they are pre-sized. I run at the lower end of the velocity spectrum. No leading and much better accuracy!

G

Stav, Most commercial brass is boxer primed and you don't have to swage the primer pocket. I also at times bought bulk Lake City brass (Berdan primed) from Midway that was already swaged. The only time I champfer or debur the case mouth is on new brass or after I have trimmed it. You can buy a cheap hand held tool that does a good job of that. Go ahead and reload for .223. After you clean and inspect your brass, you need a brush so you can lube the inside of the neck so the expander doesn't get stuck. I have a lube pad, that you roll the brass lighly on to keep it from sticking in the sizing die. Then you can get a cheap Lee hand held priming tool to prime your brass, and then you are ready to charge and seat the bullet. I would advise buying a digital caliper so you can measure case length occasionally. You will also need a trimmer and for convenience a powder measurer and scale. As others have stated, it is relaxing.

I have bought some Euro Mil-Surp for my 8x57's that was berdan primed but I have never seen any U.S. production ammo that was berdan primed. Are you sure the LC brass was berdan primed and not just crimped, almost all of my brass is LC and none of it was berdan and even my steel cased ammo wasnt berdan primed. Just Asking?

I did some research and at one time there was some 30cal marked LC52 that was Chinese cases copied from captured ammo but I haven't found any US, Lake City quit using berdan primers in 1951 with lot number 13700 on 30-06 brass. If you look down in the brass and see two little holes it is berdan if not it is boxer. If it is berdan it is definitely not Lake City Brass

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Grover Oathkeeper

Oneye, You are correct, I should have said it was crimped and had been swaged. Late night and long day.

Just my $.02. I would agree with most everything that has been posted. Only one other post commented on the safety aspect of reloading. This is serious business that can be performed by the average person if, you are willing do dedicate the time to learn to do it correctly.

Yes, with the right equipment you can load 350 - 500 pistol rounds an hour, but you need to do it correctly and consistantly. Some reloading errors can cause serious problems to your health.

Think about handling lead bullets, where to store them, how to store them. How to maintain a clean and safe environment. You do not want to contamenate your home with lead residue. You may want to consider using plated bullets for your pistol calibers. You don't want to be blowing up your favorite guns either.

Reloading takes patience and concentration. You can't have any distractions taking your mind off of the reloading task.

I reload because I want to be able to shoot a fair amount of centerfire pistol rounds, 2500 -3000 per year. I could never afford to do that if I had to purchase commercially made ammunition. Loading 9mm, .38 Spec., .40S&W, .45ACP and .45Colt my average cost is about $.12. I found that my break even cost to cover the equipment purchases was about 3000 rounds.

Good luck with you decision and be safe.

LTC

So Correct Me if Im wrong

1. Remington and PMC purchased Rounds (all my rounds i shoot, no strays from the Range)... I shouldnt need to Swag the primer pocket?
2. Champfer and Debur only if Re-size is done? or If I BUY Brass..
3. So de-prime before, Then clean again to remove Oil/Wax from re-size de-prime. Is it easiest to put back in tumbler if using the Spray oils or Wax's? Or is another cleaning step needed?? Or can i just do de-prime and Prime and re-size on the turret in the 1st stage or re-loading????
Keep hearing different versions of this step???


So am I getting a handle on it guys??

The more I investigate the more i see not ALL steps are always required. I can separate Brass that needs re-sized and do them all at once when i get enough.....
Clean em in one day...
THEN LOAD THE PISS outa em....LOL

Thanks again for HELP Guys.....

Ducts are clean at My Hobbyshop now so heading to Cabelas SOOn ta spend some MONEY....

Think Im pulling the TRIGGER today... and YES Pun was intended....

__________________
--Stav--

From what I have read it seams that just about everyone has interpreted reloading to fit their equipment and time and money. For me with a single stage press loading only the brass that I pick up from my shooting at our farm range or occasionally new brass, I will break it down in the simple steps that I do as I have noticed not everyone does them this way, I wash in our dishwasher before I tumble to help keep the media clean and lasting longer, no one told me that, it just made sense to me.
With my Deluxe Lee .223 3 die set.
1. spray with lube, decap and full length size same stroke of press.
2. dishwasher and when dry, tumble
3. whatever brass prep is necessary then Prime, charge and seat bullet.
4. factory crimp.
I prime on a downstroke, pull the case, charge it and then seat the bullet on the upstroke. As I get a case from my loading block I look to see what is necessary ie. clean flash hole, chamfer whatever. I have found that trimming isnt always necessary but I do it on an as needed basis before the dishwasher after I decap and resize.
Thats my steps, as is said so many times YMMV

p.s. I didnt have anyone to teach me so I started doing it and learned by trial and error but am always willing to listen to some of these guys that have done it a lot longer than I have.

__________________
Grover Oathkeeper

Stav,
Here's my single-stage, step-by-step process...

• Clean brass in tumbler to prep for resizing; this is to clean off grit and grime to save wear and tear on the resizing die
• Decap and resize -- I use Imperial resize wax and dry neck lube so I dip the case neck into the lube powder then dab some sizing wax on my finger tips and apply it to each case as I load it into the press;
• Tumble resized brass to clean off sizing wax
• Check cases for length using dial calipers set to 1.755", 1.76" is max case length so I'm trimming before they reach that point
• Trim over length cases as needed; deburr
• Prime cases using RCBS hand primer; you could also use the priming arm on your press

After this step I typically stop and just put all the primed cases into a small plastic bin.

When I get around to actually reloading I...

• Drop powder into primed case one-by-one, then place the charged case into my loading tray
• Quick visual check to make sure there are no over/undercharged cases in tray
• Place charged case in press and seat bullet

I used to put the primed shell into the loading tray then use my RCBS L'il Dandy powder measure to drop powder into each case, but my new Lee PPM is fixed in its stand on the bench so that's not possible anymore.

__________________
- Bill

See Bill has a system, I wish I lived closer to Bill or Rod so I could have learned from someone who has done it longer than I.

__________________
Grover Oathkeeper

That's funny since I've just started reloading necked cartridges. I'm just doing all that I can to keep my Sport from exploding at the range. haha

Stav,
For tumbling media I've been using reptile cage litter. Specifically, Zilla crushed walnut desert blend. The consistency is almost like cornmeal so it's small enough to get into the 223 neck and primer pocket without getting stuck in the neck or primer hole. I've tumbled about 1000 223 cases in it without ever finding a single plugged primer hole.

I tried using crushed corncob (also pet cage litter) which worked fine for cleaning 44 mag cases, but it would get wedged inside a 223 neck to the point where I needed a nail to dig the pieces out.

I used to buy treated tumbler media which was essentially crushed walnut shells with jewelers rouge mixed in, but adding in a couple of table spoonfuls of NuFinish car polish into the Zilla media gives me bright and shiny brass...makes me feel like I'm loading my Sport with expensive hunting rounds. hahaha

__________________
- Bill

BHarada and oneyeopn yer POSTS confirmed my plans thanks again

I just got back from cabelas... and my $CASH$ is $344 lighter in my Pocket...

Didnt get any Loads or primer yet... wanna be sure what CCI primers guys use, as well as GOOD Powder and bullets.
I got confused cuz Bullets said 224 not 223...LOL so just passed since dont need components YET!!
ill probably just get some from Cabelas ta start then get BULK online... BHarada Ill check yer recommendations once I get dialed in

I am POT Committed now guys......

Once i get some Brass on the VIBRATOR... ill post what all i got...

as always YOU GUYS Rock.... Thanks for the Help..

here is a quick pic of my toys that will NOW have CUSTOM loads ta EAT

the ENTIRE Crew, Wife's Walthers P22, XDm 9mm, S&W .357 19-3 also shown


Bushy C15.. w/ 3x7 Scope


M&P 15-22 w/ Slide fire Stock


M&P 15 Sport.... w/ Slide fire Stock

__________________
--Stav--

Another vote for "To Reload." It adds a whole new, fascinating dimension to shooting and collecting.

I forgot to add, reloading can be a mind numbing, boring, thankless and dangerous project if you let it. Sitting there repeating the same task over and over is not very challenging for those used to the fast lane. Getting in a hurry is just asking for a trip to the ER.

Then again nothing equals the feeling of smoking a woodchuck at 300yds with one of your pet loads or shooting knot hole groups at 100yds off the bench with your deer rifle. It is all part of the shooting game and requires some time and dedication to be safe. I really don't care what Wal-Mart is selling 44 mag, 45 ACP or 223 factory loads for because I know an almost unlimited supply of ammo is in the basement for me to assemble. All I need to do is get in the proper frame of mind. When I go to the range or in the field I am 100% sure my ammo is as good if not better than anything commercially available. The 100% sure comes at the cost of some time consuming boring tasks but I believe it is worth it.

Reloading is a shooting sport in itself. It's about research, tooling, load testing, technique and component shopping. Take your time. Enjoy it as another hobby and do it safe. The alternative is grim.

This in a nutshell.

Reloading is definitely something to keep your mind in the shooting game on the days when you can't get out to the range. I only wish I had the ability to step out on my front porch to do load testing, like Grover (oneyeopn) can. haha.

__________________
- Bill

Ok spent about 5 hours prepping Shells (1 hour more and they are ALL Tumbled) maybe 800rds .223, 400 9mm and 400 .38 special (for .357)

had some Challenges with the lee pro 1000 setup... mainly the Chain with the Powder feeder.... so Changed it to a Little Bungee Cord i had... and is DIALED!!! found that on YouTube...

Changed my Mind at LAST minute on the Pro 1000 vs Classic Turret... like guy said at cabelas... If yer not happy Bring it back...

Case feeder is PIMP... once I dialed it in it feeds with NO hickups..... May look into the Bullet feeder

So what did I get......

..Cabelas Tumbler Kit $66 (with sifter pan DIDNt use, media and polsih)
..Cabelas media Separator $29
..Lee pro 1000 Progressive with .223 setup $174 ($32 cheaper than Classic Parted out setup)
..Hornady Elect Scale Gs-1500 $29
..Cabelas case lube $9
..Had a Digital caliper from RC planes and cars... FREE from my shop...LOL
Total was $342 with tax....... Ya coulda saved maybe $20-30 online... but I HAVE IT NOW!!!!!....LOL

So after about 4 hours of tedious setup.... Double dotted I's and Tripple crossed T's... another trip back to Cabelas (1-1/2 Miles away... ya I know... TOO CLOSE!!!)

X-Terminator Powder
200 CCI Primers
100 Hornady 55gr FMJ Bullets

Just ta get some reps in with... ill order BULK this week...

Not sure Im ready ta reload yet, meaning ME not Setup...LOL... gunna do some more DRY runs tomorrow...... Check everything for the 5th Time.... Dry Run again.... and LET ERR Rip....LOL

In all seriousness... i respect the Volatility of this Process... im a Scorpio... I dont do ANYTHING half Arsed...... so why start Now... Right

Was Killer, Like you all have said, ta have something ta fill my time today... since noon untill now (not done yet) been playing with my Toys... NEW TOYS... Wife evene asked quite a few questions.... She never asked what it Cost's.... so THATS always GOOD..... im a Lucky man...

1/2 Hour ish and FINAL brass is Cleaned..... stuff is REALLY pretty when done..... BLING BLING baby

Anyways... thanks again Guys....

This is my initial Setup area... yes thats an RC plane in the Pic.... Moving my Rc stuff ta make room for reloading.... I have a den and bedroom for my STUFFS..errr Toys... someday Ill post those as well.....

Time ta get back to LEARNING.....

Oh Dont worry.. the BEER is a JOKE in My Pics.... only my... errr.welll......LOL...... Loading Tomorrow will be BEER FREE DAY...LOL

__________________
--Stav--

Read the setup instructions for the dies carefully the first time you run them. The factory setup may not be perfect, but it'll get you in the general ball park without doing any damage to cases or dies. haha

__________________
- Bill

Ya Already re-did the De-prime die, seemed a bit sloppy.. If that makes sense.....and getting the case Loader to go without fail was fun, got a shell, well kinda STUCK in de-prime die, so am taking my TIME from now on...... just did 20 cases in auto feeder and no Hiccup...... just started playing with Primer feeder.... Primers are a BI@CH.... they wanna jump EVERYWHERE...LOL.....

Next is to PLAY with Powder Die Tomorrow...., just kinda Playing and testing Now.....

Fun Times for sure....

__________________
--Stav--

I can tell you are an excited happy man....You will find a lot of pleasure and pride in shooting something that you built, Plus the consistency and accuracy possible are out of this world.

__________________
Grover Oathkeeper

Just a suggestion, I'd start out maybe only loading 10 or so and fire them to make sure you are ok.

what I was thinking exactly

maybe do 10-40 maybe a couple different Grains....

Pain ta get GRAINS where I want...... but Im learning.....


Time ta chill...... been 9hrs of learning... im too OLD for This...LOL

__________________
--Stav--

When I had my last AR about 15 years ago, I reloaded all my own rounds. Quite truthfully I enjoyed reloading, load development, as much as I did shooting. But that's the geek side of me, I love to tinker and you will do a lot of tinkering doing load development!!!!! Another black hole for your "spare money", yea righttttttttttt.

__________________
gunfighter48
NRA Life Member

Alrighty Then

All my Brass is Cleaned....
Beer is ON ICE for when im done..
Tested and Tested my Grain counts

Time ta LUBE some Brass and go ta work....

X-Terminator Powder
CCI 400 Primers
Hornaby 55gr FMJ-BT

Right at 23.4 gr on multiple tests....

Gunna do maybe 10 at 1st... BREATH... the do some more...LOL

Wish me luck guys

Stav

__________________
--Stav--

As many have indicated, you do not need to spend a ton of money to get started. Look around for used equipment. It is everywhere. I bought an old RCBS single stage press many years ago, purchased good dies, added some good measuring equipment when I could afford, buy components in bulk and shoot a whole lot more than I would if I didn't reload my own. I currently reload .45 ACP, .40 S&W, 9mm, .380, .270, .30-06 & .22-250. Reloading is more relaxing and every bit as much fun as shooting the stuff! Look around where you live and find a local to help you get started. I have yet to meet a grumpy reloader. Have fun & shoot straight.
m-m

__________________
mr mom
Fire Chief, Retired

MAN!!!!

was a Bit TUFFER to get Dialed in than I thought

probobly went thru 30+ cases..... 15 Primers... and 30 Bullets ta get it all Figured out.....

Kept Mushrooming the cases... till I FINALLY figured out it was the DE-PRIMING/Sizing Die....

This is a PIC of my 1st 12 plus my VERY 1st and 1 is a FACTORY Round... can ya TELL which is My 1st and the Factory Round...LOL

I was a BIT stressed at 1st... then Frustrated... Then IRRITATED... Then PISSED once i realized what was OFF and how STUPID I was......

But after those 12 straight PERFECT loads.... all worth it.

So probobly finish a few more tomorrow (Coyotes on vs LA now) and maybe adjust my MIX a Bit.....

Fun Times for sure

__________________
--Stav--

I really have no choice...

__________________
Hold my beer and watch this!

HOLLY ****!!!!

I NEED one of those Belt Feeds....... and I need ta start LOADING now to prepare....LOL

__________________
--Stav--

Gunslinger...please tell me that is a kit for an AR....I could make a belt fed semi----and then when I get rich and famous buy a classIII lower for it. LOL

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Grover Oathkeeper

Sorry oneeyeopn, it's a M249 para.
Picked it up about a month ago.
Really is fun, but one hungry hungry hippo, I could go broke feeding it.

__________________
Hold my beer and watch this!

My wife would actually say NO to a purchase like that

That COULD be pushing my Limits

LOL

NICE!!!

__________________
--Stav--

There was a company called Aries Defense that made a few belt fed uppers for the AR platform, but it turned into such a mess with missed/unfilled orders that they eventually gave up.
If you can find one they were called "Shrike".
Great idea with poor execution.

__________________
Hold my beer and watch this!

Just like Stav said, my wife would not just say not it would be more like a powerful scream!! LOL

__________________
Grover Oathkeeper

I'm pretty sure the California legislature has already protected me from spousal abuse over this type of weapon.

__________________
- Bill

My wife is SOOOOO Suportive as is... DONT wanna Push It

back on Track here..

Local Shop has Varget 8lb jugs for $130+or- so gunna pickup a jug when i leave the shop and also some CCI 400 primers...

Gunna see what kinda Bullets they have.... maybe try some 50 or 52gr... all i have shot is 55gr.....

Than HOME and start Loading Again......


Hi... my name is Chris... I am an ADDICT.....

LOL

Isnt the 1st stage Admitting your Problem

__________________
--Stav--

Stav,
I fail to see a problem that needs admitting to. haha

While Varget seems to be a standard for .223 loading, I've read too many complaints about it not metering well through a powder measure to bother with it. Nothing slows down a reloading session more than having to weigh each powder charge.

__________________
- Bill

Hmmmm

ill check what else they have in stock

GOOD Info

__________________
--Stav--

Although it is a brand new powder and not listed in a lot of books yet the CFE223 meters great my loads all come out the same according to my digital scale and supposedly it was designed for the 223 and 308 military cartridges.

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Grover Oathkeeper

I got my Wilson .223 headspacing gauge from Sinclaires today (I really love the whole Brownells company — I ordered it on Sunday and here it is on Wed )

Did a quick check on my brass and found that my Dillon FL resizer and my RCBS SB resizer both headspace fine. haha

As for why I have two resizers, I bought the RCBS dies first, but picked up the Dillon at my LGS to see how its taper crimp die worked (also the carbide expander ball is a nice feature). Turns out that I get perfectly functional reloads with no crimp at all...so I guess I'll just hold onto the Dillon dies for when I finally break down and buy a progressive press. hahaha.

__________________
- Bill

Hey Guys

Got some Hornady 50gr SP VARMINT today, just 100 ta try

why wont they FIT in the case?????

The 55gr FMJ-BT are perfect?

Thanks guys

__________________
--Stav--

Stav,

The boatails will seat because they are beveled. You may need to champfer the mouth of the case to accept the flat base of the spitzers. It will put a small bevel inside the mouth of the case, it doesn't take much.

I have to chamfer my spitzer and other flat based bullets, I have on more than one occasion hung up the bullet on the mouth of the case and accordioned the case neck which is really hard to fix LOL

__________________
Grover Oathkeeper

Gottcha

Thanks Guys. Ya I could tell the difference between the BT and flat base.. was thinking more Diamater not the bevel in base...

Ill just get some more BT style for now.. was just gunna try some different Loads for FUN..... Then chamfer some cases later for these...

...

__________________
--Stav--

You could also try backing out your sizing die 1/2 to 3/4 turn. I'd try it on one case, see if it will let the spitzer drop in. Then load it and make sure it will feed in your rifle. Sometimes you have to tweak your set up a little.