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Old 07-22-2012, 05:04 PM
turbo2 turbo2 is offline
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Default advantage of 300 over .556

I have my sport .556 and am planning on next black rifle but have questions. I want it to be a "ar" platform. What Advantages are their of .300 over a .556 ? Also .300 compared to .308. What distance can you accurately shoot .300 compared to a .556 ? Is one .300 model more accurate compared to another? Basically I am wanting another ar but want to reach out further distances. Thanks for any and all help
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Old 07-22-2012, 05:28 PM
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You're wanting to go to what is essentially 30/30 ballistics, and you're talking longer range?
Sorry, those do not go together in my mind. The .300s that can be stuffed into an AR are slow and have rainbow trajectories.

You can really reach out if you get something like the sniper's rifles, a bolt action in .300 Mag or .308.
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Old 07-22-2012, 05:33 PM
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The internet is your friend!

Ammunition Review: .300 AAC Blackout
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Old 07-22-2012, 05:34 PM
turbo2 turbo2 is offline
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ok so if I want accurate longer distance in ar platform what do I go with? Still new to rifles not sure of all the caliber differences. Do I pick a different caliber or stick with .223/.556 and go with a longer Barrel. And this will be a new build so I am not trying to mount different components on to my sport, I want both

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Old 07-22-2012, 05:35 PM
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Are you talking about the 300 Winchester mag.? I'm kinda old, but up on the AR platform rifles somewhat and am aware that you can get the AR platform in the 308 cal. But I haven't heard of the AR platform in 300 Win. Mag. I used to shoot a heavy barreled 300 Win. Mag bolt rifle and liked it. I only shot it out to 600 yards and was somewhat proficient with it. The rifle was capable, but it did pack quite a whollup. If you have ever heard of camp perry then you should know that the 300 Winchester Mag is used there quite a bit, as well as the 308, and 30-06. These 30 cal rounds are good for the 1000 yard matches. Spend a little time reading some reloading manuals and you can easily figure out what may be the right choice for you. I sold the 300 Win. mag. and opted for the 30-06. I like having the wide range of loads available for it, I also feel it is somewhat more versatile than the 308. My line of thinking is why try something new when for well over 100 years the old 30-06 have been "delivering the goods" so to speak. The same could be said about the 308, except the case is somewhat smaller in capacity and I felt I wouldn't get the all around versatility the old 30-06 can and does offer. Maybe you haven't thought about getting a bolt rifle, so the 308 on the AR platform might be in order for the range you are looking for. There is a hell of a difference between the 223 and the 308. But if its range you want then the 308 on the AR platform is what you need. I spend a lot of time reading my reloading manuals, this give me an idea of what kind of performance I can expect from various cartridges. I hope this helps you in some way.
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Old 07-22-2012, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by turbo2 View Post
Basically I am wanting another ar but want to reach out further distances. Thanks for any and all help
If the 5.56 with a 77-gr round will not reach far enough, I would think a different gun is in order, not a caliber like the .300 Whisper or Blackout, both of which seem like ingenious solutions to non-existent problems, to me. I believe those rounds are mainly intended for the silencer crowd and beyond that, their utility is limited. The various printed baloney-stories I have seen about using them for hunting (mainly pigs and whitetails) doesn't sound like anything I would be interested in doing. There just isn't much real power there.

If you have to have more horsepower for more range, then something like an M1A or one of the scaled-up AR-type rifles firing 7.62x51 would be better.

Depending on the type of shooting you plan to do, a good bolt-action rifle in .308/.30-06/.300 Magnum is liable to be a whole lot better than any battle rifle, and less expensive, too.
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Old 07-22-2012, 05:45 PM
S&WOkie S&WOkie is offline
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Here ya go!

Armalite AR-30
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Old 07-22-2012, 05:50 PM
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well with that said how far out is .223/.556 REALISTICALLY accurate out with a 16",18" or 20' barrel for a normal/average shooter, meaning how far distance with each Length

Last edited by turbo2; 07-22-2012 at 05:54 PM.
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Old 07-22-2012, 06:37 PM
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well with that said how far out is .223/.556 REALISTICALLY accurate out with a 16",18" or 20' barrel for a normal/average shooter, meaning how far distance with each Length
People get fixated on barrel length too much with these guns, yes SBR's accuracy are affected by their length, any of the barrels you listed will have about the same accuracy range. There are guys who can do amazing things, so I'm not going to discuss Youtube exceptions, but usefulness for Joe Average.

1. You are asking 2 different questions, you start out with an AR, then you are talking about the caliber itself. The .556 out of an AR is NOT the same thing as the .223 out of a bolt gun.

To answer you, under windy or cold or low altitude conditions...in other words commonly found conditions, out of the typical AR...I'd say around 600 yds is the max accurate range in an AR, barring special setups like the SR-15 etc.

In a bolt, with a 1 in 7 twist firing the 100 grain round the .223 is a 1000 yd caliber.

But then again, we are talking punch paper vs taking a target down here, a skilled sniper will hit the vital areas almost every time, so it's plenty of cartridge, a good casual shooter is doing good scoring consistent torso shots at 1000 yds.

2. The above mentioned .308 and 30-06 are 1000 yd rounds that carry enough energy even at distance to make torso shots count. The 06 has a lot more recoil, which is why most shooters prefer the .308, but the truth is, the 06 is as good as, if not better than the .308 at distance.

FYI...the.300 blackout, whisper etc does several things better than the .556--it's quieter suppressed, gives the option of a light fast bullet or a slower, heavy bullet and when loaded heavy does more damage to the target per round, assuming equal placement.

If you want a great, cheaper distance option and don't mind recoil---check into a Springfield 03.

I've got a SOCOM EBR I like a lot, but your spending some bucks for that, however, it gives you the portability of the AR and the 1000 yd capability of the .308

JMO
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Old 07-22-2012, 06:44 PM
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One other thought...500 yds is the realistic range most people are willing spend enough money and time to get consistent at. Consistently hitting beyond that takes a significant step up in gun, scope, spotting scope, shooting ability etc most people won't or can't commit to.

Also, most people they can't find a range past 300 yds, no matter how bad they want to learn...check your area before you spend money on a gun you can never use at distance....again...JMO.
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Old 07-22-2012, 06:51 PM
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Barrel length has an effect on velocity not accuracy, and rule of thumb is approx 50fps increase in velocity per inch increase of barrel length. The higher the velocity the less the bullet will drop at longer distances. There is practically no difference in bullet drop up to 300yds between a 16" and 20" barrel. Go out past 300 and the difference comes into play, (2" @ 400, 7" @ 500, 9" @ 600 and 40" @ 700) this is only the difference in drop, not the total drop (about 100" total drop @ 600yds which almost doubles @ 700!).
I shoot my sport (5.56) out to 300yds and it is still MOA at that distance. I use my guns for hunting, so my shooting and caliber choice is geared toward making a clean, ethical kill. If I think I can, I don't. If I know I can, I do.
BTW, there seems to be a lot of .300 BLK threads coming up on this forum. I have looked at the cartridge and ballistics and I don't get it. JMO, but the 6.5 Grendel looks like a far better choice for the AR-15 platform...esp for long distance. YMMV.
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Old 07-22-2012, 06:51 PM
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Have you looked at the Ruger Gunsite 308. I've seen them priced around $780.
Ruger® Gunsite Scout Rifle Models
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Old 07-22-2012, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StatesRightist View Post
People get fixated on barrel length too much with these guns, yes SBR's accuracy are affected by their length, any of the barrels you listed will have about the same accuracy range. There are guys who can do amazing things, so I'm not going to discuss Youtube exceptions, but usefulness for Joe Average.

1. You are asking 2 different questions, you start out with an AR, then you are talking about the caliber itself. The .556 out of an AR is NOT the same thing as the .223 out of a bolt gun.

To answer you, under windy or cold or low altitude conditions...in other words commonly found conditions, out of the typical AR...I'd say around 600 yds is the max accurate range in an AR, barring special setups like the SR-15 etc.

In a bolt, with a 1 in 7 twist firing the 100 grain round the .223 is a 1000 yd caliber.

But then again, we are talking punch paper vs taking a target down here, a skilled sniper will hit the vital areas almost every time, so it's plenty of cartridge, a good casual shooter is doing good scoring consistent torso shots at 1000 yds.

2. The above mentioned .308 and 30-06 are 1000 yd rounds that carry enough energy even at distance to make torso shots count. The 06 has a lot more recoil, which is why most shooters prefer the .308, but the truth is, the 06 is as good as, if not better than the .308 at distance.

FYI...the.300 blackout, whisper etc does several things better than the .556--it's quieter suppressed, gives the option of a light fast bullet or a slower, heavy bullet and when loaded heavy does more damage to the target per round, assuming equal placement.

If you want a great, cheaper distance option and don't mind recoil---check into a Springfield 03.

I've got a SOCOM EBR I like a lot, but your spending some bucks for that, however, it gives you the portability of the AR and the 1000 yd capability of the .308

JMO

awesome info thank you
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Old 07-22-2012, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
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well with that said how far out is .223/.556 REALISTICALLY accurate out with a 16",18" or 20' barrel for a normal/average shooter, meaning how far distance with each Length
In the Corps I had to qualify with the 5.56 m16 A2 with a 20 in barrel at 500 yards with iron sights against a man sized target and normally hit 10 out of10 times so yes its accurate at that distance. and recently I have hit the target with my sport at 500 yards of course now I use a scope as my eyes are not what they used to be lol

Here is some info on the blackout http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/300_AAC...2%C3%9735mm%29

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Old 07-22-2012, 08:10 PM
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I hear that ! LOL
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Old 07-22-2012, 10:42 PM
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I have my sport .556 and am planning on next black rifle but have questions. I want it to be a "ar" platform. What Advantages are their of .300 over a .556 ? Also .300 compared to .308. What distance can you accurately shoot .300 compared to a .556 ? Is one .300 model more accurate compared to another? Basically I am wanting another ar but want to reach out further distances. Thanks for any and all help
300 BLK - the concept is that very few shots at at long range - so rather than optimize the cartridge for little-used ranges, make it better within 300 meters.

5.56mm has a longer range than 300 AAC Blackout. If you specifically want long range, then use 6.5 Grendal or 5.56mm.
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Old 07-22-2012, 10:44 PM
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.300 Whisper or Blackout, both of which seem like ingenious solutions to non-existent problems, to me. I believe those rounds are mainly intended for the silencer crowd and beyond that, their utility is limited.
How so limited? 30-30 is one of the most popular cartridges of all time. So is 7.62x39mm.

300 AAC Blackout simply gives you the utility of those but in the hugely popular AR-15 platform - and does so using normal magazines with 30 rounds capacity.
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Old 07-22-2012, 10:47 PM
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BTW, there seems to be a lot of .300 BLK threads coming up on this forum. I have looked at the cartridge and ballistics and I don't get it. JMO, but the 6.5 Grendel looks like a far better choice for the AR-15 platform...esp for long distance. YMMV.
The 6.5 Grendal requires special bolts, special magazines, and costs more for ammunition. The bolts are not very durable because the bolt face is too large. But - it is worth it if long range is your goal.

300 AAC Blackout ammunition is cheaper than 30-30, and has more energy in a 16 inch barrel than 5.56mm does in a 24 inch barrel. So it is the most practical and lowest-cost way to get a bump in power and hunt with your AR15 in areas which ban hunting with 223.

Lots of info here:

https://www.facebook.com/300aacblackout

http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/
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Old 07-22-2012, 11:03 PM
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One other thought...500 yds is the realistic range most people are willing spend enough money and time to get consistent at. Consistently hitting beyond that takes a significant step up in gun, scope, spotting scope, shooting ability etc most people won't or can't commit to.

Also, most people they can't find a range past 300 yds, no matter how bad they want to learn...check your area before you spend money on a gun you can never use at distance....again...JMO.
Excellent points, in a discussion like this - and worth repeating. A new rifleman sometimes overlooks the obvious. In my area, places to shoot at really long-range are few and far between.

I would encourage the OP to forget buying another caliber/rifle for now and work with his present gun. Go to a range that has 'training matches" for new shooters. After you have shot a few matches with your Sport model, you will have a MUCH better idea about what constitutes a real long-range rifle. (And you might be surprised to see what your rifle will do at 300 yards, with good ammunition. )
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Old 07-22-2012, 11:17 PM
rsilvers rsilvers is offline
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I have to drive almost two hours to be able to shoot more than 200 yards.

It is important to say that longer range cartridges are not just better in all ways - they have compromises when used up close such as:

More cost per shot.
More recoil.
More muzzle flash.
Less capacity.
Optimized for longer barrels.
In the case of 5.56mm, less energy and effectiveness through barriers.
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Old 07-23-2012, 12:55 AM
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I get by with:
22 RF
5.56
30-06 (308 for you?)
45-70

No need to reinvent the wheel unless you've got money to burn. IMHO

Emory
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:44 AM
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The OP wants a long-range AR. He didn't mention money being an object. Not bashing the 300BLK, but it is not a long-range cartridge, and never was intended to be. Of the calibers listed .308 is my pick hands down. That being said, I am currently using a .260 Rem (6.5mm) for long-range and it is sweeeeet!
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Old 07-23-2012, 11:36 AM
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Was at a local gun show this weekend and handled a LMT in a 308. Good golly, major drool factor. It was beautiful. At over 3k though for a price. Ouch!!! I do want one now though. Uuuggg it never ends.

Hayden.
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Old 07-24-2012, 09:24 PM
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sounds like the .556 can do more then I have tried and I need to play more and see what it can do. Thanks for all the advice
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