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07-25-2012, 09:09 PM
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Barrel Twist:1 in 8 or 9?
I'm going to order am M&P15, and notice some models have a 1 in 8 inch twist, while some have a 1 in 9. Gun will be mainly for recreational fun. Any thoughts on what twist rate is best? I handload everything, 223 usually 55 gr FMJ with H335 performs great in a Mini 14 (stop snickering, I actually like the gun).
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07-25-2012, 09:32 PM
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I'd go with a 1-8 twist, have a couple of Bushmasters with 1-9 and with heavy bullets some times I'm on the ragged edge in getting them to shoot. Over spinning a bullet to a point isn't as bad as under spinning it, to a point!
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07-26-2012, 08:42 AM
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Either will handle those 55's without a hitch. The 1:8 on my sport will shoot the heck out anything I load, from 50gr to 80gr. Have a friend with a 1:9 that LOVES 75's. I would get the MODEL I want and not base my decision on a twist delta of 1", because there aint a whole lot of difference between the 2.
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07-26-2012, 09:33 AM
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I agree the difference lies more with the models than the twist rate, so get what floats your boat the highest.
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07-26-2012, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty gary
I'm going to order am M&P15, and notice some models have a 1 in 8 inch twist, while some have a 1 in 9. Gun will be mainly for recreational fun. Any thoughts on what twist rate is best? I handload everything, 223 usually 55 gr FMJ with H335 performs great in a Mini 14 (stop snickering, I actually like the gun).
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I like the mini 14. It's a fun little gun to shoot!
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07-26-2012, 02:02 PM
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Thanks for the input, my choice will be based on model like everyone says. Special thanks to Fat B for sticking up for the Mini - I read some cruel posts, one said wouldn't use a Mini unless he was pounding in fence posts
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07-26-2012, 02:31 PM
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Most of the rifles I have experience with have either 7- or 9-inch twists. I am inclined always to favor heavier bullets, so I would prefer my rifles all had 7-inch twists, but 8-inch would probably do as well. The 9-inch twist seems to be a good compromise for bullets from 55- up through 68- or 69-grains. If you always shoot lighter bullets, get the slower twist.
The Mini does take a lot of beating around here ( ), but it has its defenders. I am one of them. I do not have the .223 version, but I rather like the Mini-30. They are not meant to be target rifles!
I think they are fine, for what they are - but I would appreciate a little better sights. I suppose Ruger thinks everyone will mount a telescope on them, which, of course, ruins them, in terms of handiness.
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08-02-2012, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty gary
Thanks for the input, my choice will be based on model like everyone says. Special thanks to Fat B for sticking up for the Mini - I read some cruel posts, one said wouldn't use a Mini unless he was pounding in fence posts
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Another Mini 223 lover here too. Old 181 series. Still a tack driver.
It'll pound fence posts and still shoot like new.
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08-02-2012, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty gary
I'm going to order am M&P15, and notice some models have a 1 in 8 inch twist, while some have a 1 in 9. Gun will be mainly for recreational fun. Any thoughts on what twist rate is best? I handload everything, 223 usually 55 gr FMJ with H335 performs great in a Mini 14 (stop snickering, I actually like the gun).
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I'm still on the fence with the 15T.
I've been loading 52 grain BTHP with IMR 4895 powder and have got great results out of my Mini. Wondering how the 15T would like it.
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08-02-2012, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddmax
I'm still on the fence with the 15T.
I've been loading 52 grain BTHP with IMR 4895 powder and have got great results out of my Mini. Wondering how the 15T would like it.
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Before I started loading with the CFE223 I was loading with the IMR4895 and the sport loved the 53gr bullets with around 26 grains of IMR4895. Once I got up to 26.5 I was compressing the powder so that was when I went to the CFE with the 53gr
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08-03-2012, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty gary
Thanks for the input, my choice will be based on model like everyone says. Special thanks to Fat B for sticking up for the Mini - I read some cruel posts, one said wouldn't use a Mini unless he was pounding in fence posts
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Hey I'm with you guys. I shot a mini 14 for awhile. I think it is a cool little rifle.
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08-03-2012, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddmax
I'm still on the fence with the 15T.
I've been loading 52 grain BTHP with IMR 4895 powder and have got great results out of my Mini. Wondering how the 15T would like it.
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I've have loaded the 53grain V-max's over IMR 4895, Benchmark, H335, and Varget. When it comes to bullets or powders the sport is like the honeybadger...
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08-04-2012, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oneyeopn
Before I started loading with the CFE223 I was loading with the IMR4895 and the sport loved the 53gr bullets with around 26 grains of IMR4895. Once I got up to 26.5 I was compressing the powder so that was when I went to the CFE with the 53gr
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I'd have to look in my old notes,but I think I was loading 26.2 grains of 4895. It filled the case to the bottom of the neck and no "powder crunch" when I seated the bullet. How much "room" is left in the case with the CFE223 ? It "seems" I get/got better powder expansion results with a full case,with the 52 grain BTHP and tighter groups at 250 yards. At first I was worried about the bullet not having enough "poop" at that range to drop a Coyote,but they never knew what hit them.
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08-04-2012, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddmax
I'd have to look in my old notes,but I think I was loading 26.2 grains of 4895. It filled the case to the bottom of the neck and no "powder crunch" when I seated the bullet. How much "room" is left in the case with the CFE223 ? It "seems" I get/got better powder expansion results with a full case,with the 52 grain BTHP and tighter groups at 250 yards. At first I was worried about the bullet not having enough "poop" at that range to drop a Coyote,but they never knew what hit them.
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The CFE is heavier by volume so my loads are coming up to just a little over the shoulder. I shot some armscor last night, just 15 that I had loaded 55gr FMJ over 27.3 gr of CFE, I really liked the way they shot. But I wasnt really locked down like normal I was offhanding my second rifle. Which does not have the Sport Barrel.
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08-06-2012, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty gary
Thanks for the input, my choice will be based on model like everyone says. Special thanks to Fat B for sticking up for the Mini - I read some cruel posts, one said wouldn't use a Mini unless he was pounding in fence posts
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No problem but I never understood why the Mini got so little respect. It's like a bigger 10/22 that shoots .223's. What's not to like about it?
Besides, ever watch the TV show , The A-Team? The Mini-14 with a stainless barrel and a folding stock was their go-to gun. Any gun that is good enough for the A-Team is good enough for me.
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08-06-2012, 09:35 PM
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There is a lot of people that like to shoot the heaver bullets so for resale go with the 1/8 twist with that twist it will make a good hog gun.GOOD LUCK
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08-06-2012, 09:40 PM
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1:8 a good all around twist rate
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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08-07-2012, 01:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat B
Besides, ever watch the TV show , The A-Team? The Mini-14 with a stainless barrel and a folding stock was their go-to gun. Any gun that is good enough for the A-Team is good enough for me.
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Did you notice that no one ever got shot and killed on the A-Team? Even Hollywood couldn't make an accurate mini 14!
My stepdad had one. I liked shooting it as a kid. I killed many milk jugs with it. I wouldn't mind having another one.
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08-14-2012, 03:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddmax
I'm still on the fence with the 15T.
I've been loading 52 grain BTHP with IMR 4895 powder and have got great results out of my Mini. Wondering how the 15T would like it.
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I have been shooting 50gr. nosler over 25.5gr. of benchmark, and my 15T loves the stuff, 10shots, one ragged hole at 100 yards, do have the once in awhile flyer, but I really think that that is me
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08-14-2012, 03:37 AM
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That's with the 1/8 twist
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15T,15-22,5946 & some not S&W
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07-05-2014, 09:17 PM
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I've looked to 4 different dealers. They all have the S&W M&P Sport with the 1-9" twist only. This is an entirely different barrel than the 5R- 1-18" twist barrel. They both have the same SKU#: 811037. Is there any way of getting a 5R-1-18" barrel in the Sport?
Thanks, Rich Hayes
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07-05-2014, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rchrd53
I've looked to 4 different dealers. They all have the S&W M&P Sport with the 1-9" twist only. This is an entirely different barrel than the 5R- 1-18" twist barrel. They both have the same SKU#: 811037. Is there any way of getting a 5R-1-18" barrel in the Sport?
Thanks, Rich Hayes
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Find one used. You probably mean 1-8".
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07-05-2014, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rchrd53
I've looked to 4 different dealers. They all have the S&W M&P Sport with the 1-9" twist only. This is an entirely different barrel than the 5R- 1-18" twist barrel. They both have the same SKU#: 811037. Is there any way of getting a 5R-1-18" barrel in the Sport?
Thanks, Rich Hayes
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Hi Rich,
You resurrected an old thread. S&W changed the barrel spec of the 15-Sport from the 1:8 5R barrel to a standard 1:9. The only way to get a 15-Sport with a 1:8 5R barrel is to buy a used 15-Sport or find "new" old stock.
When you search the forum, you'll see that we like to debate the technical and theoretical superiority of the 1:8 5R barrel. I own AR-15's with both the 1:8 5R and a 1:9 barrel. For range plinking and out to 100 yards using commonly found factory "practice" ammo, I have not seen any practical difference between the two barrels.
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07-06-2014, 12:49 AM
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What John said! If you're loading 55gr already, 1/9 is plenty good.
Good Luck and good shooting.
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07-07-2014, 09:13 AM
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Probably 90% or more of the .233/5.56 shooters never load 77-gr or heavier. If you are one of those, then the 9-inch twist is actually a better alternative (probably).
I thought it interesting that the recent review in The American Rifleman noted batter accuracy with the Army's new 5.56 ammunition from a 9" twist barrel than from the 7-inch. That particular load has a very long bullet, but apparently the 9-inch twist barrel did the job - at least at the ranges they tested.
I fully realize that comparing results from only two barrels, particularly with no history of the quality of either, is a bit opening a can of worms, but I wouldn't be afraid to buy one of the new Sports with the 9-inch twist for anything up to and including the 69-gr BTHP target loads.
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07-07-2014, 06:34 PM
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Thank you all for your input. It all shaped my opinion on the matter. Yes, to my first response, I did mean 1-8" 5R barrel. Anyhow, I am unhappy that S&W uses the same SKU# for the 1-8" 5R barrel as they do to the 1-9" 6 groove barrel. There is no way to differentiate the two; neither of them have the barrel specs on the box. One would have to physically examine each one to determine which is which.
Thanks,
Rich Hayes
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07-07-2014, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rchrd53
...I am unhappy that S&W uses the same SKU# for the 1-8" 5R barrel as they do to the 1-9" 6 groove barrel. There is no way to differentiate the two; neither of them have the barrel specs on the box. One would have to physically examine each one to determine which is which.
Thanks,
Rich Hayes
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Don't start looking at the 15T's then lol. Several running changes on that model as well.
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07-07-2014, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rchrd53
Thank you all for your input. It all shaped my opinion on the matter. Yes, to my first response, I did mean 1-8" 5R barrel. Anyhow, I am unhappy that S&W uses the same SKU# for the 1-8" 5R barrel as they do to the 1-9" 6 groove barrel. There is no way to differentiate the two; neither of them have the barrel specs on the box. One would have to physically examine each one to determine which is which.
Thanks,
Rich Hayes
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Hi Rich,
As John mentioned, S&W changed the twist spec on the Sport. About a year ago I started considering purchasing a Sport. From what I was able to tell then, S&W phased in the 1:9 barrel during the spring of 2013 when ARs were in hot demand. I suspect the initial spec change may have been an effort to produce as many Sports as possible as the 1:9 is a more common twist rate. The sku is the same because all new Sports now are shipped with the 1:9 barrel and have been since mid 2013.
I bought a 1:9 Sport in October 2013 and am very pleased with its accuracy with 55 and 62gr. Most common commercial ammo is either 55 or 62 grain anyway. That range of grain weight seems to be the the 1:9 sweet spot, not taking into account other bullet variables that affect accuracy such as length.
I'll offer this regarding twist and the Sport barrel: my personal opinion is that the heavy barrel on the Sport is what makes the Sport an accurate rifle with 50-70 grain bullets rather than a one inch difference in twist. Before I bought my Sport I had a retro AR made from late 1970s M16A1 parts with a new pencil profile 1:9 barrel. That rifle was not accurate. My opinion is the thinner pencil profile was affected more by heat and stress from using a sling for support. From my experience the 16" 1:9 heavy barrel on the Sport is very accurate when you use 50-70 grain bullets and do your part.
Last edited by spad124; 07-07-2014 at 10:11 PM.
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07-08-2014, 03:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty gary
I'm going to order am M&P15, and notice some models have a 1 in 8 inch twist, while some have a 1 in 9. Gun will be mainly for recreational fun. Any thoughts on what twist rate is best? I handload everything, 223 usually 55 gr FMJ with H335 performs great in a Mini 14 (stop snickering, I actually like the gun).
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Won't find any snickering on my part.
I'd rate my Mini and AR #1A and #1B. Both handle their jobs well... and that Mini will eat any ammo, chew it up, spit it out... never jams... and it takes nothing more than a 1/4" punch to tear it down.
Just ignore them. If they hate on it, it just shows ignorance.
BTW... I load 25gr w748, 55gr Xtreme FMJ. Runs excellent thru both guns.
Oops... on the old thread. At least I didn't resurrect this one.
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Last edited by CrustyShellback; 07-08-2014 at 03:17 AM.
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07-08-2014, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat B
I like the mini 14. It's a fun little gun to shoot!
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Ditto. I have a 581 series Mini-14 and really like it. I find it to be very accurate out to 300 yards and "hunting accurate" out to 500 yards. Quite a few Coyotes would testify to that ........ if they could.
Bob
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07-08-2014, 11:11 AM
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I've owned both 1:8 and 1:9 sports. I second JaPes...there's zero practical accuracy difference between the two. To be honest, my 1:9 is a better shooter. But that's just because I upgraded the miserable stock trigger to a Geissele.
I'd take whatever sport I could find the cheapest and have fun with it.
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