I would like to make 2 steel targets about 8 to 10 inches square. How thick do I need to go? I only use PMC 55 grs fmj-bt 223 in my Sport. The targets will be hanging low to the ground, from supports I made to hang paper and my Do-All ball from. My shooting lane is 40 yards.Thanks Steve

40 yards with 223 FMJ? That's well inside the 150-200 meters most manufacturers and the military state as the minimum range. Not to say I haven't done it and have some scars to prove it.

But as to your question, thickness is less important than hardness. US Army and Marine regs state that AR400 steel is the minimum hardness and 3/8 thickness as a minimum. Most target manufacturers use AR500. Thick mild steel will just get tunnels through it, no matter how thick it is.

The splatter angle is 20 degrees from the target face in all directions so ensure nothing that will get eaten up (plastic, wood, etc) lies in that cone. And don't rigidly mount your target. That doesn't allow it to absorb energy and causes worse damage to your target. Our targets (Marines) are free swinging at a 20 degree forward angle to absorb energy and deflect splatter into the ground at the base of the target.

For the record I shoot 8 inch plates with 5.56 at 50-200 meters, but I load HP, soft point, or frangible for use on steel at close range.

Thanks Rs. Sounds like a bad idea. I'll just stick to my paper and self healing ball. Steve

Not to say it is a great idea, but I shoot a 3 inch hanging gong at 50 yards all the time. Mine is a commercial gong and it is 3/8" AR500 steel and handles my 223 FMJ or JSP just fine. Just a repaint after each use. If you put holes in the top corners and use carriage bolts to mount to the hanging chain the bottom of the target will tilt backward toward the ground as suggested is a good idea. Gongs are a hoot to shoot compared to paper, so just proceed with caution with regard to splatter or things near the target.

I am building a 20" gong for 400 yards using an old farm implement disc. They are hardened steel and concave or convex however you turn them and hanging it off of a pair of chains. I plan on shooting it with more than just the AR and am not particularly worried about ricochets with it. I also have the little metal rimfire targets that we shoot at with the 22's and I dont have a problem with those, I do believe that the target has to be free to move, having seen people shoot at metal fixed items and seeing them ricochet has led me to believe a metal gong has to be able to swing front to back. This is my opinion and YMMV

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Grover Oathkeeper

I made some 6" plates out of 1/2" steel that I have hanging from a frame with chains. When I shoot .223 varmit tipped rounds they disintegrate on impact. I only shoot them at 300yds or more though.
They don't make a 'gong' noise but do give a satisfactory 'thwack' when hit.
The old harrow disc is a good idea though, will try that one myself.

Here's a link to Bobcat steel. Bobcat Steel | AR500 Steel Targets
Great steel targets at reasonable prices.

Here's a decent target vendor in the northern part of Illinois:

Products

I've bought from them before and am satisfied with their pricing and quality.

+1 on the farm implement Disc. I have a few we are making up for targets.

Hayden.

These guys at QualityTargets on ebay are really good. The nice thing is that they figure what amount of targets will fit in the standard USPS box, so you don't pay crazy shipping charges by weight. I have several of their targets are they are very good quality.

Gong Target - 5" Diameter 3/8" AR500 Steel Plate | eBay

Here's a link to The Metal Man in Tucson, Arizona. The steel spinners--- give off a twack sound.


http://themetalman.com

gunsandjeeps I'm not 100% sure but I think when you set up steel target plates the angle you set the plates matters as well. I believe the bottm of the plate should be pitched inward.... Somebody correct me if I'm wrong here.

Thanks for all the links and advice gentlemen! If you think 40 yards is to close, I can clear more yardage, I've got 13 acres to play with.

Im in the process of making some steel targets myself.

Bought some 1/2" and 3/8" AR500 Plates/Gongs to use 5.56 on
and some 5" circular ar200 plates to make spinner type for .22.

What is a safe distance to shoot these from? I hear 100 yards alot for the 5.56 but is that far enough to be safe? Is there a magic number where bullet splatter cant reach you, or is there always a risk even if you put it 200 yards back.

I dont want to hurt anyone or myself so I want to be sure.
I know that they need to be angled down, and to shoot them straight on. But as to bullet splatter Im unsure.

50 yards is a good safe distance, just make sure your targets can swing or spin just not locked into place. If they are locked into place you run a good risk of a ricochet, but if they can give it absorbs a lot of the energy.

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Grover Oathkeeper

Ok, here's my AR15 story. While sighting in new, more accurate ammuntion on the 25 yard pistol range (paper target) we decided to get rid of the old Wolfe .223. Loaded the magazines and started plunking the steel targets. My friend chose one about twenty yards out and fired. The bullet knocked over the steel and then the jacket came off the bullet and returned exactly 180 degrees and went through his jacket around his chin (cold that day) and hit him in the jaw (next to the rifle butt stock) and traveled almost an inch under the skin. I could not believe what happened. It very easily could have killed him or at least put out an eye. I WILL NEVER SHOOT A HIGH VELOCITY ROUND AT STEEL at any close range. I hope you can learn from my stupid mistake.

Yikes.

Minimum im gonna go is 100 yards.

Is using FMJ rounds a bad idea with metal targets?

Has anyonen gotten any shrapnel coming back at them from 100
Yards +

20 yards is close, I have seen ricochets come back at that close of range, but I havent at 50 or 100 on non-fixed targets, I have seen it when shooting like at old engine blocks and such but they couldnt give and if the angle is just right. Always make sure your targets can swing. We shoot at steel spinners at 25 yards with 22's but if we are going to shoot with bigger they have to be at least 50 yards out.

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Grover Oathkeeper

Welded together a simple take down frame today for the targets, use rebar as legs and hanging bar.

Bought angle iron, figure bolt that to back of target and attach chain to that to get a good downward angle.

Im thinking of using plain rope to hang them, as even if I get the super thick looking $3 a foot chain, one bullet hits gonna break it so might as well use cheap rope. Maybe a bike tube cut into strip would work to as would take a few hits to sever it.

Well finally took the steel targets to the range today.

The AR200 3/8" targets all were fine using my .22 at about 50 yards

Problems is with the AR500.
I had a 12 X 13 that was 1/2" thick hanging at an angle about 100 yards out. I shot 50 or so rounds and then went to get the target and found it had pot marks in it, Actual chips out of it.

There were also some hits that didnt have "potholes"

So Im assuming its the ammo, I used
PMC .223 bronze 55 grain FMJ
PMC X-TAC 5.56 Green tip 62 grain M855, Steel core Light AP.

So im assuming Its the X-tac Steel core that is reason and not that its isnt ar500 as there are some hits that didnt penetrate.

Now I gotta throw that target out

the green tip is made to penetrate armor and it will leave marks in the steel as it has a steel core that is just as hard as your target material. Depending on how deep the marks are and as long as you dont use the AP on it, you should be able to continue using the target. But I must mention again, you dont want to use AP on steel targets. It really doesnt matter what material your target is made from the AP is going to tear it up. OOPS LOL

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Grover Oathkeeper

I have some New NRA 3/8" steel targets i took out yesterday to Plink at

Set em up at 60-70yds, one was at 50yds

I hit the 50yd with 9mm, .357 and .22 and worked perfect...
Hit the 2 at Longer range with .223 (and above Guns) and the .223 mushroomed it pretty well.. only paid $29 for all 3 so no biggy on the Shroomed Spots... ill spin em around for the Smaller caliber shooting

Just ordered 3-Ar500 3/8" steel Targets today..... Ill use those for .223 and use these for the Smaller caliber...

Was fun ta hit the gongs though.. this will now give me 3 long Range .223 and 3 Shorter Smaller caliber

I also have ordered Full Silhouette sheets since I'm bored with my Bulls-eye shooting...

Time ta plan some SHOOTING Games for when it Cools Down

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--Stav--

Got my 3 new Ar500 6" Steel Plates Yesterday...Lets see what the Sport can do to these

Cant wait to get all 6 of my Plates out to the desert and set up...

had a BLAST setting up my Private range and doing some fun Drills on Monday.... Been a long time since i shot my Pistols that much

The steel targets have added another fun aspect/twist to my shooting trips..

Keeping it fresh and Fun


...

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--Stav--

here are some I made recently out of 5/8 scrape handles .223 no problem

Looks pretty good Hoss

My 3/8" RA steel didnt take the .223 rd's so well but is perfect for hand Guns and .22... So i flipped em... Painted... and just like New

Also... side Note.. the Shepard's hooks from home depot work PERFECT...... Flex enoupgh for additional Movement and are easy to set up.. and at $6.95.... cheap to replace


Pretty easy ta Tell .22 Puffs and 9mm/.357 Puffs and the .223 SHROOMS stand out... they are deeper than they look here




BUT....
Not to worry... we have Reinforcements now...
Ar500 steel..... Hope ta get out tomorrow AM.... Loading all my Rounds now for all my Toys.........



Only supposed to be 105deg Tomorrow... so hope the Humidity is LOW

...

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--Stav--

Wow are those backwards dimples from the .223? WOW!!

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Grover Oathkeeper

Pock marked steel promotes ricochetes. Be carefull !!!!

Those plates are now flipped... so are safe now.... one 9mm did Punch through a dimple though...

Well too Hot and couldnt get motivated to go Shoot Today...

Shooting (pun intended) for Tomorrow

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--Stav--

Stav...I.like the Shepard hook idea. My wife has a ton of those in different heights lying around for her plants.Going to take some down to the property and give them a try.

Well I messed up today....took my nephew with me to run my test series plus set up my gongs at 50yrds so he could shoot at them while I was writing stuff down and setting up new target Jammit boards, I reached into the mag pouches on the case and didnt think about what was in it but grabbed one on my new tangodown mags to test on my 8" AR500 targets, charged the rifle and fired 3 quick rounds hitting the gong everytime. I did notice that the sound was different so I flipped the gun over and red the tag on the mag..."62gr Penetrator" Uh oh...we walked down and looked, you could tell which was the pentrator shots and which had been shot before but they didnt hardly hurt the targets, they left definite marks on it...we changed mags real quick before I turned my nephew loose. Major brain fart!!!glad I bought the AR500!!

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Grover Oathkeeper

There is a video of a 50 cal coming back after a ???500yd or so shot. Hit the shooter, knocked off his ear protection. For steel shooters, angle your targets a couple degrees to promote the rounds bouncing down into the dirt. Works very well, you can hit a plate at very close range and have no issues.

It happens!!!!

Put up a 12"x18"x1/2" steel plate Wed for 500 yd shooting. It had been welded to it's twin and used as part of a pistol trap prior. The 5.56 wouldn't move the plate at all, and we could barely hear it hit at that distance. I could see where the first few rounds knocked off paint, but soon it was all gone. After a few turns, we decided to put the 6"x1/2 steel pie plate back up. Don't have to guess whether or not your hitting it.

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James

If you mount the plate where it can swing front to back like on a hook or chains you are less likely to have a ricochet. If you mount it solid anything other than frangible can ricochet.

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Grover Oathkeeper

I just gotta say something here. I see some dangerous information in this thread and i'd hate to find out that someone was injured as a result of using or misunderstanding some of the information in this thread. I am not trying to be critical of anyone. Shooting can be fun and enjoyable, but safety should not be forgotten.

Pitted/dimpled and/or penetrated steel targets will increase chances of, and are more likely to have, ricochet or fragments projected away from the target area regardless of what angle you mount them or how much they swing or at what angle they are tilted or how stationary/solid. Steel targets with multiple pits/dimples or penetrations are considered damaged and should be replaced. A steel target that has been penetrated is considered severly damaged and highly dangerous in terms of ricochet or fragments. If you are shooting a damaged steel target with 5.56/.223 at less than 100 yards the ricochet or fragments can travel up to 300 yards away and anyone within that 300 yards can be hit by that ricochet or fragment and possibly injured (even you). You may not notice the ricochet or fragments from a damaged steel target in your immediate localized area but if there were ricochets or fragments they went somewhere, or you found some way for a bullet and metal to violate the laws of physics and energy and that is more than highly unlikely.

Shooting a damged steel target is not the same as shooting an undamaged steel target with a smooth surface. Once damaged the more commonly used method expectations of ricochet or fragments deflection for steel targets no longer apply and a ricochet or fragment can be projected from the steel target at any angle/direction at a velocity that can cause injury.

Just because you or someone else has not yet been injured by shooting damaged steel targets does not mean you were safe or the target was safe to shoot. Do not take anyones word for it that a damaged steel target is safe to shoot no matter how long they say they have been doing it or what experience or qualifications they have. Do not fool yourself into thinking a damaged steel target is safe to shoot no matter what your experience is or what you have read. Do not believe the very subjective concept/theory that "thousands shoot damaged steel safely".

Steel targets for rifle: AR500 (with brinell hardess of 495 or greater) 3/8" thick steel targets can be safety shot with rifle ammunition up to 2800fps and 175gr, non steel core, non bi-metal, non multi core bullets, at distances of 150 yards or more.

Do not shoot steel targets with XM-855 ammunition. This ammunition is designed to penetrate, penetrations make the steel target highly dangerous to shoot in terms of ricochet or fragments. Do not shoot steel targets rated for pistol use with rifle.

Not all AR500 steel is equal, hardness can greatly vary. AR500 is a steel mill designation not a hardness. If you are going to buy or make your own steel targets for rifle then get a gurantee the steel used has a brinell hardness of 495 or greater. Look for clues such as '500 Brinell' or 'AR500 Armor Plate' (not all AR500 is armor plate) when shopping for steel or steel targets and actually contact the manufacturer to check.

I take the damaged/pitted ones and fill 'em in with the welder. I also don't shoot 'em less than 300yds. Varmit and match bullets in .224 just knock the paint off at that distance. .264 & .308 are another story.
A friend shot some steel core rounds at 500yds just for kicks. We found a core stuck in the steel target like a dart in a dartboard (half in,half out)!

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James

You mean XM-855 or M-855, which is the green tip 62gr steel core penetrator. M-193 or XM-193 is 55gr ball, no penetrator, just a lead core FMJ and GTG.

I agree with the danger of damaged steel targets, I also don't believe any steel target with concave surfaces to be good either for the same reasons dimpled targets increase ricochets.

Welding target ruins heat treat and will soften them.

Whoops you are right, sorry for the mistake. Guess I just had that on my mind at the time as I had just finished firing a box of it for testing. Changed it in the orginal post, thanks for pointing that out.

Softened steel due to repair welding? A softened steel target can pose almost the same problem as a damaged steel target. Softened steel is eaisier to break away from the target with high velocity rifle bullet impact, fragments of the softened steel can be projected away from the target at almost the same velocity as the bullet impact velocity.