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Old 11-19-2012, 07:16 PM
BillK01 BillK01 is offline
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Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison?  
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Default Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison?

Posted this over on the 15-22 forum and ar15.com with no replies yet so I'm hoping for better luck here. :-)

So I have cheap Sightmark reflex on my M&P 15-22 and have a Primary Arms Microdot on the way for my M&P 15 as a placeholder optic until I have more funds in my gun money account for a higher end optic for the M&P 15.

Any way...my question is - depending on which cheap sight type I prefer am I safe in assuming my preference would still be the same between an Eotech & Aimpoint?

I'm relatively sure I'll be getting one or the other for my 15 and possibly for my 15-22 later on. The last time I used a red dot was on my dads Super Redhawk .44 mag with an old Aimpoint 3000. So far I like the Sightmark reflex on my 15-22 even though it's fairly obvious its a low end optic.

Thanks in advance.

Bill
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:30 PM
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Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison?  
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Hey Bill

I have a sightmark Reflex and Eotech 512... I also have a Bushnell Trophy Red Dot and a BSA red Dot.....
So Optics from $19.99 upto $400


I prefer a refLex Site by FAR....... Most of my shooting is under 100yds, really more like 25-75yds
Target Acquisition with a reflex over a red dot is WAY Faster...

Now That is Me.....

Find what direction you Like, and yes, Get the Higher Dollar Equvilant and be happy

My Sightmark is on my 15-22, love it, but didnt fair to well on my M&P Sport... had to get it replaced by Warranty...
I have my Eotech on my Sport..... thing is the Bomb......
Also have the Bushnell red Dot on my Bushmaster C15 AR.... works Fine.... but would like a reflex.....


Anyways..... my $.02 bud


....
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:46 PM
BillK01 BillK01 is offline
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Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison?  
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Thanks Stav!
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:23 PM
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Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison?  
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Bill I have an Ultradot Pan-AV on my homebuilt, it is an excellent sight. It is a holographic with 4 choices of reticle with two of them having a 1 MOA dot. it doesnt go red and green it is only red but it is a great sight with a lifetime warranty.
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Old 11-19-2012, 10:03 PM
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I’m extremely biased in favor of Aimpoints.
I think the Patrol Optic in particular is a steal for what you get.
And what you get is great performance and reliability at a low price.

I’m retired now but the Sheriff’s department I worked for had a few Eotechs, and had so many problems with them, they refused to buy any more. Which baffles me because I see a lot of photos of high speed low drag guys using Eotechs. So I don’t know how legitimate my bias is.

Anyway I currently own 3 Aimpoints. A T1, H1, and the PRO.
I like all three. I only have 3 different ones because I acquired them at different times under different sales and availability conditions. The PRO is the most recent and wasn’t available when I bought the others. I can’t say enough good things about the PRO. Mainly price, battery life, and assumed reliability under rough conditions.

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Old 11-19-2012, 11:38 PM
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If you have the cash to invest in Aimpoints then more power to you. They are exceptional optics!!

Personally I've got a Sightmark Reflex sight on my home defense Beretta CX4 (will probably change this optic out in the coming weeks), a M3-style Primary Arms optic on my M&P15-22, a Primary Arms 3x compact scope on my CQB AR15, a Primary Arms red dot in my parts bin, and a M4-style Primary Arms optic enroute (just won it in a Gunbroker.com auction).

Would you get the impression that I'm impressed with the quality of those "Made in China" Primary Arms optics?
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:01 AM
Dikinalaska Dikinalaska is offline
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Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison?  
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If you have the cash to invest in Aimpoints then more power to you. They are exceptional optics!!

Personally I've got a Sightmark Reflex sight on my home defense Beretta CX4 (will probably change this optic out in the coming weeks), a M3-style Primary Arms optic on my M&P15-22, a Primary Arms 3x compact scope on my CQB AR15, a Primary Arms red dot in my parts bin, and a M4-style Primary Arms optic enroute (just won it in a Gunbroker.com auction).

Would you get the impression that I'm impressed with the quality of those "Made in China" Primary Arms optics?
Just out of curiosity, how does the 3x work for you on the CQB? I never thought of 3x and CQB in the same sentence, but than again I don't have my CQB yet.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:24 AM
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Just out of curiosity, how does the 3x work for you on the CQB? I never thought of 3x and CQB in the same sentence, but than again I don't have my CQB yet.
My 50+ year old eyes appreciate the magnification. Is it the most appropriate optic for such a role? Probably not!
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:56 AM
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Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison?  
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Ahh...sounds to me like the beginning of a spare parts box
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:55 PM
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Ahh...sounds to me like the beginning of a spare parts box
Wait... do you mean that there are shooters who don't yet have one? I thought that was a prerequisite!
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:57 PM
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Everyone has to start somewhere
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Old 11-29-2012, 01:14 PM
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I read this yesterday.
You get what you pay for? (What separates the aimpoints/eotechs from other optics? - M4Carbine.net Forums
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Old 11-29-2012, 01:53 PM
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Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison?  
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phreddy, I just read it and I get that people are biased in what their opinions are. It is that way with everything. I saw a lot of people give accounts of one time this did this or that happened and so they switched and have been perfectly content. There are other forums where if you said you bought an M&P15 they just say buy once cry often. They do not consider our choice of rifles to be "good enough". I do believe that learning and using Iron Sights are important. I personally do not have a battery powered optic on any of my guns, nor do I use my AR's for primary home defense. I have read of people having good luck with sightmarks. There are better out there and there are worse out there. I recently learned for myself the difference between a Leupold and a Bushnell. Am I going to go out and replace all of my scopes? Nope but I can appreciate someones point of view on them more so than I used to.
that thread had some great opinions in it, but it lacked empirical data to back up their opinions. Plus in the SHTF situation batteries are going to be hard to find anyhow. Thanks for the good read, I never make it over to those forums so I do find it interesting to see how they think.
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by oneyeopn View Post
phreddy, I just read it and I get that people are biased in what their opinions are. It is that way with everything. I saw a lot of people give accounts of one time this did this or that happened and so they switched and have been perfectly content. There are other forums where if you said you bought an M&P15 they just say buy once cry often. They do not consider our choice of rifles to be "good enough". I do believe that learning and using Iron Sights are important. I personally do not have a battery powered optic on any of my guns, nor do I use my AR's for primary home defense. I have read of people having good luck with sightmarks. There are better out there and there are worse out there. I recently learned for myself the difference between a Leupold and a Bushnell. Am I going to go out and replace all of my scopes? Nope but I can appreciate someones point of view on them more so than I used to.
that thread had some great opinions in it, but it lacked empirical data to back up their opinions. Plus in the SHTF situation batteries are going to be hard to find anyhow. Thanks for the good read, I never make it over to those forums so I do find it interesting to see how they think.
Empirical data? Really now.

You got some empirical data to back up your use of any sights or scopes or that counterfit EoTech you had mounted?

Seriously, not being critical of you, just pointing out that the empirical data is in the use and purpose of the EoTech's and Aimpoints, people which understand that concept don't need anyone to give them empirical data. The EoTech and Aimpoints are battle and field use proven, better engineered, more durable, and more reliable because they have to be because peoples lives depend on them on an almost continuous basis literally world wide. Both of the companies were established to serve primarily those demanding markets of life savers and life takers in the law enforcement and military areas. Its a big difference in trying to compare a "budget" scope or sight used for plinking or target shooting against a sight or scope thats purpose designed for use in combat and under fire or to take down a critically lethal target, its actually an apples to oranges comparision. If someone does not understand that seperating difference then they simply don't really know the difference.

The discussions at that other site are by people who understand what that difference is and expect others who participate in the discussion to already understand that difference. So you don't see a lot of empirical data thrown around in the discussion about EoTech's or Aimpont's because among people which understand that difference between those and budget sights it does not need to be given.

Last edited by Foxtrot; 11-29-2012 at 03:48 PM.
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:58 PM
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empirical data? Really now.

You got some empirical data to back up your use of any sights or scopes?

Seriously, not being critical of you, just pointing out that the empirical data is in the use. The EoTech and Aimpoints are battle and field use proven, better engineered, more durable, and more reliable because they have to be because peoples lives depend on them on an almost continuous basis literally world wide.
LOL...foxtrot not everyone is using their AR platform as a battle rifle. The gentlemen in the other forum seem to be. Some of us like shooting dirt clods LOL
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:56 PM
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LOL...foxtrot not everyone is using their AR platform as a battle rifle. The gentlemen in the other forum seem to be. Some of us like shooting dirt clods LOL
LoL

Every rifle is a battle rifle, its just that some people choose to battle dirt clods.

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Old 11-30-2012, 12:40 AM
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I’m retired now but the Sheriff’s department I worked for had a few Eotechs, and had so many problems with them, they refused to buy any more. Which baffles me because I see a lot of photos of high speed low drag guys using Eotechs. So I don’t know how legitimate my bias is.
Manufacturer's change their product lines....new models replace old models. One hopes the newer have better reliability, better features, etc. I have one of the newer EOTechs.....it is an improvement, IMO. It sits on my 12 gauge auto-loader where recoil is more higher than a 5.56 AR, that is for sure. Last time I used it, it got a 1,000 round workout during a 4 day advanced shotgun course. I can ask for nothing better.
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:07 AM
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Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison?  
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I don't want to hijack this thread but why is the reticle so fuzzy in the EOTech? I have several smaller reflex sights on some pistols (a Burris Fastfire and a Hakko reflex) and they are very clear. What makes a holograph sight different?
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:12 AM
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Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison?  
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Default Aimpoint v Eotech?

I have one of each, an Eotech EXSP2 and an Aimpoint PRO, used at various times on an AR15/M4, M1a and Mini-14.

The Eotech has a bright, sharp reticle with a 65 MOA circle and 1 MOA dot in the center. There is very little parallax at any range, and none at 50 yards or more. The reticle is designed for fast acquisition, and serves very well in this capacity. The window is twice the size of the Aimpoint. The reticle is a hologram, reconstituted with a laser. There is absolutely no visible light emitted from the dangerous end. The downside is that it takes a lot more power than the LED of the Aimpoint, with a battery life of 600 hours or less. It turns off automatically after 4 or 8 hours.

As noted, the Aimpoint uses an LED light source, reflected from a spherical mirror, projected at infinity (80 yards or more). The power control is highly effective, giving a battery life of 3000 hours or more (1-2 years continuously on). The objective has a tuned reflective coating that is bright orange from the dangerous side. This is cured using a honeycomb anti-glare filter. A small amount of LED light can leak from the objective. There is a single dot, approximately 2 MOA in the finder.

Both can be used with a magnifier in front of the device without changing the point of aim. The CL is about 40 mm above the rail. I use an Aimpoint 3x magnifier in a LaRue flip mount. With the magnifier, you are good for 300+ yards. Curiously, with my aging eyes, the dots are actually sharper with the magnifier, even though they are magnified along with the subject (see below).

You should use these sights with both eyes open. The objective can be covered and still used, because your brain will impose the red dot/reticle on the target. This is useful if you forget to pop the cover, or in exceptionally bright conditions, where the dot will still be visible.

The dots are sharp and clear, but your eye will perceive them as fuzzy or elongated if you have uncorrected astigmatism or retinopathy. The clarity of my sights improved significantly after I updated my prescription glasses. The effect is more pronounced with the holographic sight, because of the physics involved in the imaging of the reticle.

The Eotech is ideal for close combat type situations (hunting in brush, clearing rooms, playing games) where fast acquisition is paramount. The Aimport is better for mid-range situations (hunting in open forest or fields, combat at 30+ yards, or playing games). In practice, you could use either for CQC or mid-long range shooting. At 100 yards with paper, my groups are usually smaller than than the visible dot. A 3" bullseye becomes a thin black ring around a 2 MOA dot.

What do you get when you pay for top of the line products? Battle-proven reliability. Readily available accessories, parts and service. Easy, backlash-free adjustments. Immunity to recoil (the M1a is a thumper, and I have bruises to prove it). Rugged and water proof (immersion to 15 meters or so). I take the reliability for granted, because I don't want to find out when the chips are down (or I'm 5 miles from my car).

Last edited by Neumann; 11-30-2012 at 03:45 AM.
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Old 11-30-2012, 06:58 AM
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When considering the purchase of a "red dot sight" (RDS) there needs to be an understanding of a few simple facts in relation to an RDS; The consumer is not going to have only a $100.00 budget and get a new quality sight. Expect to pay $200.00 or more to get into the quality range, although, sometimes you can find a basic fair quality sight thats used for less or go for one of the general use or sport geared mid range budget models in the $100.00 to $200.00 range. What changes mainly among sights is the quality of the glass used in any lens or sight window and how abberation free that glass or lens is, how and by what method the reticle is presented to the shooter, features, precision, and very importantly quality level of components/design/engineering/manufacturing (which directly relates to dependability, reliability, and the other factors). The RDS market really is a "you get what you pay for" market and price correlates overall directly to quality with the higher the quality the more the price (where it begins to get into use features for specific purposes or specific purpose use which cost even more) and the lower the quality the lower the price. The consumer simply pays the price of quality or they settle for a step or two down the quality scale towards the "budget" market in the $100.00 to $200.00 range that overlaps the quality market at the low end - and - the beginning of the cheap markets where quality becomes an unknown word and junk/trash, counterfits/knockoffs, imitations, rip offs, and poor/low/inferior quality materials and poor/shoddy manufacturing reign supreme. Quality, budget, cheap, those are actually the only three market areas for RDS. As you get into the mid range area of the budget market moving up in price higher quality related attributes start to appear in products, and the cost of quality components, design, engineering, precision, function, reliability/dependability start to increase steadly because for manufacturing it cost more to procure and implement into products.

The EoTech and all "red dot sights", in general:

If the reticle is fuzzy, distorted, blurry, double image, has a 'halo' effect, or has a sort of starburst it usually means the brightness level is too high. Turn down brightness until reticle is slightly see through then bump up one adjustment step or leave slightly see through if prefered. If after adjusting brighness the problem still exists make sure it is not a problem with your focal acuity by comparing with others.

For the EoTech, if you need corrective glasses or contacts for distance then you need them to see the reticle clearly as well because the reticle is projected out on to the target plane so you will see it like anything else at that distance. The Eotech is different, you focus on the target and not the reticle and the reticle becomes part of the target so the reticle and target are one and the same. For other RDS sights the reticle is superimposed over the target and depending on a persons spatial preception ability and vision acuity the reticle may or may not appear in focus with the target.

If you have an astigmatism, other eye sight issues, or need/use bifocals you might see the reticle less distinctly or it may appear distorted in some way.

If the center dot does not appear to be perfectly round its most likely because of the way your eye perceives the dot. The human eye lens/pupil is different between individuals. Round objects that subtend near or up to 3 MOA may appear distorted in different ways depending on the individual and a precentage of the population are not able to preceive a point light source like the sight dot as round or with clearly distinct edges, sometimes this occurs with over 3 MOA size dots for some people, in both cases sometimes corrective lenses can help with this.

The human pupil average size ranges 2 to 2.5 mm in normal to average environmental light conditions like daylight/overcast days or well lit rooms, 3.5 to 4.0 mm in median light conditions such as a more dimly lit room or early twilight, and up to about an average of 5 mm in darkness conditions or with some faint light such as moon light. In a precentage of the population a light point source like the sight dot larger than 2 MOA can't be preceived (in part) as clearly sharp/distinct because of the pupil diameter/shape or eye lens.

The reticle dot may subtend to the target at some distance but the reticle dot (a point light source) is also in near field preception for resolution. In all humans, in near field perception as things get preceived closer to pupil size they start becoming more distinct and 'clear' due to the way the pupil receives light (for you scope people this is, for a RDS, the rough parallel of what is known broadly for a scope as the 'exit pupil'). When the near field dot light source equals or gets smaller than pupil size the speed of preception of the dot becomes more optimal. The smaller the dot the faster the preception down to about .75 MOA depending on the person but at less than 1MOA it suddenly becomes extreamly difficult to impossible to focus on and resolve the dot clearly as the human eye on average can only reliably resolve down to 1 MOA. In terms of speed vs accuracy, when the dot is 1 or 2 MOA the resolution time ranges from 3 milliseconds to 8 milliseconds depending on the person but the majority do around 4 milliseconds average, with the resolution time increasing as dot size increases beyond 2 MOA, the less the resolution time the faster the preception. A 3 MOA dot is resolved in approximately 15 milliseconds and dot sizes of 4, 5, and 6 MOA will take approximately 115, 270, and 380 milliseconds respectively to resolve. The less the resolution time the more enhanced the ability to place the dot and fire on the target more quickly (or track a moving target and fire). Also, the smaller the dot the more precisely it can be placed on a specific target area. These things are part of the reason why the EoTechs and Aimpoints with 1 and 2 MOA dots are better, more accurate, and enable faster target acquistion and engagement than a larger dot. The 1 or 2 MOA dots give an optimal compromise between speed and accuracy for the human eye and the largest amount of people, the 1 MOA dot is the most optimal.

Some people see the dot as having a starburst or "bycycle wheel spokes" lines coming from it. Hold the sight at approximatly the same distance from your eye as when mounted on weapon, rotate it while looking closely at the center dot. If the starburst or "bycycle wheel spokes" lines don't seem to move as the sight is rotated then its more likely the way your eye perceives the dot, dimming the brightness will most times eliminate or minimize the starburst or spokes lines for you. If dimming the brighness does not eliminate or minimize the starburst or spokes lines then its time to get your eyes checked. If the lines do seem to move then it could be your overall vision acuity and its time to get your eyes checked.

The outer circle of the Eotech holographic reticle is made up of hundreds of pixels which are small dots that form together to make the reticle outer circle image. The outer circle might appear to be fuzzy or hazy, this is normal and proper as its supposed to appear that way (absent any vision issues) as this is inherent in holographic technology. The Eotech reticle outer ring is presented in the shooters reticle view projected out on to the target with the center dot and is intended to be a reference to center similar to a ghost ring enabling targeting for very fast broad placement of shots on target. The ghost ring type aspect of the EoTech outer circle is used for fast close range engagement at 100 yards or less, the ring is 65 MOA and encompasses the height of an average adult male sized (69 inches) target at 100 yards, and for example, at 15 yards the circle encompasses a 10 inch area on the same target, the circle also assists in range estimation. The four quadrant lines (ticks) extending from the reticle circle are 4 MOA and intended to assist in rapid target acquisition.

Something people overlook is cleaning. I've seen people actually send back EoTech's as they were thinking the EoTech was broken because it appeared to be fuzzy and all they did at the factory was clean the lens and send it back; Clean the glass on occaision because you may be seeing the reticle as blurry or fuzzy because there is a greasy fingerprint or something else on the glass.

RDS sights are made for people with with perfect 20/20 vision. Aberrations of the reticle such as distortion, fuzzyness, blurryness, distinctness, and other issues of reticle view are frequently solved by a trip to the eye doctor for corrective lenses. The internet is probably the worse place in the world to try and discuss differences between RDS sight reticles, and thats because people frequently forget to tell others that what they see as perfect is with corrective lenses so someone runs out and buys a sight based upon that persons recommendation of "perfect" and find they can't use the sight even with their own corrective lenses and thats because people have different prescriptions for their corrective lenses.

What makes the Eotech different from another sight like the Aimpoint or another 'holographic' or non-tubed RDS :

Most of the differences are in use, application, technology, construction, design, engineering, dependability/reliability. 1x RDS sights are Type I sights, Type II sights are those RDS type sights with low magnification integrated in, usually, the 2x to 4x range (sometimes this is "switchable" variable and/or with a greater magnification on the higher end of the range such as 6x), Type III sights are those RDS type attribute sights that are scopes with a variable magnification range like 4x to 12x. Here are a few things which are comparative between the EoTech, Aimpoint, and other RDS's.

The Aimpoint is a reflex sight (also known as reflector sights) as are all others. The EoTech is not a reflex sight, nor is it technically really a Red Dot Sight, it is a true holographic weapon sight. The term "reflex" refers to the reticle being projected from a point behind the objective lens then reflected back from the objective lens to the shooter. Reflex sights come primarily in two flavors, a "heads up" type and tubed type. True holographic weapon sights come in only one flavor and that is EoTech which is the only true holographic weapon sight on the market. Its a pretty sure bet if a sight claims be holographic that its not a true holographic weapon sight unless its a genuine EoTech.

The EoTech holographic three dimensional reticle is formed using an internal laser, then projected backward toward the shooter being directly presented to the shooter at the glass window as a true holographic reticle. The reticle is virtually projected forward out on to the target plane due to the three dimensional aspect into infinity using a high quality aberration free lens. There is no light or image actually projected or emitted from the sight. The EoTech does not project the reticle forward to an objective lens to be reflected back to the shooter so its not a reflex sight. The EoTech center 1MOA dot is generated at a size of 0.33 MOA. After the beam is split and sent through collimating and the projection lens, the result from those two light wavefronts being reconstructed in the hologram render the 0.33 MOA generated dot as what is preceived by the eye as the 1 MOA dot. (Note: The EoTech product line does include one reflex sight, the MRDS model, with a 3.5 MOA or 7.0 MOA dot.)

There are other sights marketed or touted as holographic sights that are not true holographic weapon sights, they are reflex sights. The reticle of these others may, in some cases, begin as a hologram when generated but once its reflected off the objective back to the shooter eye the holographic aspects of the reticle are destroyed and a flat non-holographic image is presented to the shooter. The reflection turns these sights into regular non-holographic sights but the manufacturer/suppler may charge the price of holographic and the consumer ends up paying for holographic technology they will never be able to fully use. One example of these other sights claiming to be holographic is the lower quality Sightmark Reflex Sights which claim to be holographic sights in their advertisement and information. Some of the others don't advertise them as reflex sights and instead say they are holographic sights which is only "advertising and marketing" true in the aspect of generating a holographic reticle before its objective reflected back to the shooter and it is not actual use and application true because the shooter will not see a real holographic reticle (if they really do generate a holographic reticle, there are some that claim holographic but use a regular LED). Some may use a laser to generate their reticle, they don't use it to generate a true three dimensional holographic reticle and only use it for the light source as an LED would be used but in their view point the use of a laser means hologram because lasers can also be used to generate two dimensional holograms in a manner similar to that used to create a true three dimensional hologram. Its not just suppliers with lower quality products that advertise holographic sights, the sights are available across a wide spectrum of suppliers. The consumer should know exactly what they are getting when they look for a holographic sight and determine before purchase if not having a true holographic reticle presented to them and paying for holographic technology they will never be able to use fully is the right thing to spend money on. There is no comparison between the others claiming to be holographic sights and the EoTech true holographic weapon sight which is far superior than these others.

EoTech calls their sights "Holographic Weapon Sight", some of the other (mostly older) terms that may be used for holographic sights are "Holographic Diffraction Sight" or "Holosight". Bushnell, in the past, marketed the EoTech first generation non-military versions under the brand name "Holosight". The "Holographic Diffraction Sight" or "Holosight" terms are mostly used in sales of sights that are older generation sights.

The Aimpoint and most other RDS's have a reticle formed from an LED light source, These project the reticle forward from a point behind the objective lens where it is then reflected off the objective lens, which acts as a "partial" spherical mirror, back toward the shooter. This is how reflex sights get the reticle to appear as suspended within the sight. The reticle is not virtually projected forward on to the target plane like the EoTech reticle but rather is suspended within the sight and appering superimposed over the target. Its a faked preception of "spatial depth" that makes it seem projected out by taking advantage of the fact that the human brain processing what our eye sees can be fooled into thinking "spatial depth" exists by contrast in colors and shading, perspective, and relative size. Only a three dimensional hologram reticle can project out on to a target plane. The Aimpoint reticle is not three dimensional thus it can not project out on to the target plane and is superimposed over the target view. The Aimpoint objective lens being a "partial" spherical mirror means it does not allow as much light to pass through it as would a regular lens or glass, a special reflective lens coating carefully tuned to reflect the wavelength of light emitted by the LED light source covers the objective lens.

Light is the reason we can see things, our eye sees the light reflected off an object in the light wavelength that matches the colors of the object, the less light reflected back the less light reaches our eyes and the less distinct and clear the object is, the more light the better we see something. The lens or window of any device we look through is more optimal the more light that passes through it to reach our eyes so the more optimal the transmission of light through that lens or window the more clear and distinct something appears and the better we can see it. All spherical mirror objective lens reflex sights will pass less light through the lens, its simply the physics nature of such a lens. The high quality RDS reflex sights use a high quality spherical mirror objective lens and design to minimize the loss of light through the lens. However, most if not all "budget" market reflex sights will noticibly pass less light through the lens because they use a lower quality lens which helps translate their product for sale at a lower cost. Some of these may still be suitable for general use at shorter ranges (for example the Primary Arms brand) in normal lighting conditions but they generally use a larger reticle dot size. The more light that passes through a lens the more clear and distinct the view is. Comparatively, the Aimpoint will pass more light than most if not all "budget" reflex sights, the EoTech will pass more light through its windows than the Aimpoint will pass through its spherical mirror objective lens.

Due to being able to pass more light than most if not all reflex sights, the EoTech would be the better choice all around and in very poor/low light conditions instead of a reflex sight. Its claimed the less light passed through the Aimpoint is hardly noticeable and only poses a problem for people with poorer vision in low/poor light conditions. This is not completly true because less light arriving at the eye poses a problem for everyone because its light that allows us to see clearly and distinctly. However, the less light passing through the Aimpoint is not a really bad or overall restrictive issue and should not pose a problem for most people subjectively. However, if you do have poorer vision ability in low/poor light conditions you would probably want to go with the EoTech, for example, in a home defense or law enforcement use.

The difference between a true holographic weapon sight and the others; The true holographic weapons sight projects a real holographic reticle out on to the target plane making the reticle target focused instead of shooter reticle view angle alignment focused and is independant (within reason of the allowable shooter view angle of the reticle) of the shooters line of sight view of the reticle for its accurate placement on the target. The others present a reticle superimposed over the target and requires the shooters line of sight of the reticle be the same (or within a very small reticle view angle range) as the shooters line of sight to the target and both must match for accurate reticle placement on the target. The true holographic weapons sight will present a true holographic reticle directly to the shooter which is target centric, the others do not present such a reticle and are alignment centric. They both accomplish the same thing generally, they help put rounds on target quickly due to being intended for quick target acquistion. The Eotech is overall faster and better for target acquistion and accuracy, especially under stress, for momentary/fleeting/spontaneous/moving/traveling targets, if shooter is on the move, for awkward shooting positions, or engaging around physical barriers, smaller portions of a whole target viewable for shorter periods of time, and is a best overall choice for shooting under any condition.

The EoTech holographic sight allows for a wider range for reticle view angles. As long as the EoTech window can be seen from any acceptable angle for reticle view the reticle can be used to target even if the glass window is broken out or obscured. With reflex sights if the glass is broken out the sight will probably be useless. Reflex sights requires your vision to remain more in line with the reticle so head movement affecting view angle can affect placement and view of the reticle more eaisly. Tubed reflex sights cut off view of the reticle at lesser view angles than allowed by the EoTech. The Aimpoint and other tubed type RDS's tend to introduce a "tunnel vision" effect for some people which decreases situational awareness, the EoTech doesn't have this problem.

The EoTech allows for greater peripheral vision "around" the sight where the tubed sights restricts more peripheral vision. Prolonged sighting with the Aimpoint or other tubed sights introduces more eye fatigue with having to keep line of sight mostly in line with the reticle to maintain reticle position on the viewed area or target which introduces more stressful head positioning as well. The EoTech allows a wider view angle and less critical head positioning while maintaining view of the reticle, prolonged sighting with the EoTech has less eye fatigue and allows less stressful head postioning than the Aimpoint and other sights.

In uses such as home defense, or law enforcement use where closer ranges with multiple targets is common, the EoTech is the better choice. In situations where there are single targets in view for longer periods of time at distances over 100 meters either the Aimpoint (or a Trijicon or Elcan small dot LE or military type sight) or EoTech are suitable. In situations where there are momentary/fleeting/spontaneous/moving/traveling targets, smaller portions of a target viewable for shorter periods of time, awkward shooting positions, engaging around physical barriers, shooter is under stress or on the move, the EoTech is the best choice. For single targets between 50 to 100 meters with or without fast engagement either the Aimpoint (or a Trijicon or Elcan small dot LE or military type sight) or EoTech, for targets less than 50 meters with or without fast engagement the EoTech is the best choice. For multiple same area targets the EoTech is the best choice, in lower light areas the EoTech is the best choice. For fast engagement situations the EoTech is the best choice.

Both the EoTech and Aimpoint are optimized for zero to 91.44 meters use and intended to be most effective within the 5.56 mm round point blank range which is about 251 meters. On large targets like full man sized targets they can make hits out to about 320 meters with maximum practical range out to about 366 meters without magnification. However, from about 366 meters and further its a problem compensating for bullet drop and a different reticle with BDC may help out here which means moving to a sight with a BDC reticle. Its about the same for all quality Type I sights. The sights for all other quality models from any manufacturer are also about he same for under 250 meters with a few being capable of the maximums of the military and law enforcement models. If you need further range then you need to move to a Type II low power magnified RDS type sight which is much slower for target acquistion and 320 meters to about 410 meters is about the maximum practical range for small targets of sizes about 10 to 15 inches, or move to a Type III type scope.

For critical use and all aspects of use, application, technology, construction, design, engineering, dependability/reliability then EoTech, Aimpoint, Trijicon, or Elcan law enforcement and military lines of sights. For general hunting and shooting (e.g. range) then either the Eotech, Aimpoint, or a mid-price-range sight of decent quality like the Lucid HD7, or one of the sights from Bushnel or Burris in the upper budget area range - the Eotech, Aimpoint, Trijicon, or Elcan and Lucid can also be used for this but they are generally more expensive than something like the Bushnell or Burris for this use but if you already have one then why not use it. For all critical use, for example self/family/home defense, only the EoTech, Aimpoint, Trijicon, or Elcan law enforcement and military lines of sights, if you get anything else for this use you have really fooled yourself.

The EoTech reticle is projected on to the target plane, you focus on the target like you would for anything at the target distance. The Eotech reticle remains in focus with the target, its a "the dot is the target" concept as opposed to the Aimpoint or other RDS "shooter vs reticle vs target" alignment concept. Once you get "the dot is the target" concept though it will just click into your brain and you will have the hang of the EoTech for its true holographic capability. The Eotech reticle outer ring is presented in the shooters reticle view projected out on to the target with the center dot and is intended to be a reference to center similar to a ghost ring enabling targeting for very fast placement of shots on target for fast close range engagement at 100 yards or less. The ring is 65 MOA and encompasses the height of an average adult male sized (69 inches) target at 100 yards, and for example, at 15 yards the circle encompasses a 10 inch area on the same target. The circle also assists in range estimation. The four quadrant lines (ticks) extending from the reticle circle are 4 MOA and intended to assist in rapid target acquisition. The Aimpoint and other RDS sights force you to focus on the sight body for reference to center which is slower for engagement.

No reflex or holographic sight has a really effective solution for effects of extreamly bright conditions
or glare on the sight glass its self without filters. Filters are necessary in some cases and they help but what if you don't have a glare filter, killflash filter, or polarization filter? What happens when the light or glare is bright enough to washout the reticle making it harder to see and you don't have time to hunt around for a filter and fiddle with putting it on? What if you lost the filter? You may be able to still see the target with your eyes but through the sight the light or glare is causing problems because its hitting the glass and reflecting around or washing out the reticle. One trick that helps in these cases is to cover the front lens. "What? but then I can't see through the sight!" you are correct, you can't see through the site but if you cover the front lens the rear is still open and you can see the reticle. If you have both eyes open and look at the target with one eye and see the reticle with the other eye your brain will blend the two views together and you will see the reticle imposed over the target and can still engage. This is also a good training tool to learn to use the site effectively with both eyes open to learn to trust the sight or to discover that you can't use the site effectively with both eyes open due to vision limitations such as poor stereoscopic vision.

The Eotech and Aimpoint along with other reflex sights are zero'd using the same basic methods. Most people simply adjust the dot to the top of their front sight post (assuming the BUIS sights are zero'd) and if needed make adjustments from there. Zero is accomplished simply by firing three rounds, checking the target, then making the necessary corrections to the sight to move the three round group center for what ever the distance is the impact was off from the aiming point for azimuth and elevation, repeat as necessary. The quality sights like the EoTech and Aimpoints will most times be pretty close to zero when you first take them out of the box and only a click or two will be needed for zero. If you adjust the dot to slightly above the top of the sight post for zero this is the correct postion that will work for most people to match the BUIS zero but if necessary refine the zero from there until suitable for you. Its recommended that zero for Type I RDS sights be accomplished at 25 yards unless more specialized application is intended. If you have a magnifier, zero using the magnifier for the most accurate zero.

The "low budget" and cheap market RDS, for example, Sightmark - Tasco - Barska - NcStar - Leapers - knockoffs/counterfits - airsoft - and cheaper - and similar - etc...., should be avoided. These are all imitations of existing quality market products, every single one of them even though they may look structurally and/or cosmetically different from a quality market product. They do not have the development, design, engineering, known proven reliability/dependability, and materials standards of the quality sights like the EoTech and Aimpoint applied in them no matter how good the advertisement or the "best thing since sliced bread" recommendation posts of users on the internet sounds. There really is no comparison between these sights for any suitable purpose and quality sights like EoTech and Aimpoint (or similar quality sights).

If you plan to buy American and are very discriminating for determing such also using company real origin; EoTech is company based and originated in the U.S.A with manufacturing of sights in the U.S.A. and profits going to EoTech in the U.S.A. Aimpoint is company based and originated in Sweden with manufacturing of sights in the U.S.A. and profits going to Aimpoint in Sweeden.

Some additional information, because I know someone will read this thread and bring it up at some point so might as well put it here in this post - accuracy in relation to a 1x RDS:

The term 'accuracy' is subjective. When you use a 1x RDS (with exception of the EoTech) you are shooting for a group size not specific pin point accuracy like with a crosshair scope or BUIS. The RDS was never intended for pin point accuracy like a crosshair scope, some people get upset when they don't drive tacks with a 1x RDS like they could with a crosshair scope, they get upset because they don't understand the difference and application and are trying to compare apples to oranges without realizing it. For example, a RDS with a 2 MOA dot if the round impacts are all within the 2 MOA aiming point size then your shots were accurate... a 3 MOA dot if the round impact are all within the 3 MOA aiming point size then your shots were accurate, and so on. So with a RDS you are aiming for an MOA area impact, and if the rounds impact the target within the point of aim MOA area (the area on target covered by the dot) then the shots were accurate and the sight was accurate, from there its a matter of determining if that group is what you consider accurate for your purposes. With a BUIS or crosshair scope if point of aim = point of impact for each round fired then your shots were accurate. So you see that trying to apply the term 'accuracy' in comparision between scopes/BUIS and RDS is useless because it means two different things. This is the difference for the term 'accuracy' between using a 1x RDS and a crosshair scope or BUIS. If you want pinpoint accuracy where point of aim = point of impact for each round fired then you need to use a crosshair scope or BUIS (mostly at closer range). The EoTech is a little different due to the 1 MOA dot. The EoTech is best zero'd initially at 25 yards (a distance EoTech also recommends) and at 25 yards the 1 MOA dot covers an area on target very close to the size of the 5.56mm bullet, which enables visually pretty precise zero adjustment with the MOA adjustments of the EoTech which translates to smaller groups to approaching scope type accuracy nearly at some ranges where point of aim does equal point of impact per round fired in the hands of a very capable shooter. (Note: Of course there are other factors such as bullet drop which may make rounds land outside of the desired point of aim but this is an adjustment factor not an accuracy factor in terms of the device its self if the device is suitable for the task.)

Last edited by Foxtrot; 12-18-2012 at 02:17 PM.
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:57 PM
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Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison?  
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I'd love to have an EoTech, but other guns get in the way. I also want a Trijicon ACOG. Oh well, back on topic.

The cool thing about the EoTech is that the dot it projects is actually 1/3 MOA. The 1/3 MOA dot is diffraction limited by the human eye & appears to be 1 MOA. This is why when you mount a 3X Magnifier behind an EoTech, you still perceive the dot to be 1MOA.
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Old 12-01-2012, 05:09 AM
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Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison?  
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The Trijicon is a nice sight.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:57 AM
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Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison? Sightmark/Eotech vs. Primary Arms/Aimpoint comparison?  
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very nice write up foxtrot



eotech would have been my choice if I decided for a light weight CQC, made in america, shoot and scoot

I my self, between the two... aimpoint and eotech
choose the aimpoint for durability and battery life,but it was the right choice for what needs I think will be used for..

both have plus & minus... but durability won

also .. note in engagement
Most people are not use to getting into ..the eye dialates and more than likely to let more light to hit the macula, which is the most light-sensitive part of the retina

back to the orig. poster Bill
bottom line is, if you got a Sightmark - Tasco - Barska - NcStar - Leapers - AIM - Primary or Vortex or thinking about it you'll wish you got something better for you AR platforum
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