This weekend I shot my friend's M&P15 Magpul version and I swear I liked it much better in terms of double tap as compared to my M&P15 Sport which is much tougher to keep on target for double tap.

Could be I need to go back to the Sport and see as maybe I"m stronger now. :-)

Did both have the vertical grip?

Is the Magpul version a middy?

Yep. The Magpul is a middy. Love that roll mark.

The middy gas system is supposedly "gentler" than a carbine length gas system.

Put on a Magpul MOE stock with the enhanced butt pad, a vertical grip, and a heavier buffer. The heavier buffer will slow down the action, making it feel "gentler".

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-John

I always thought the bark was way worse than the bite (kick).

FWIW, the last thing I would worry about or use as an evaluation point for a rifle, is being able to deliver a double tap. Handguns....entirely different issue. But for a rifle....if a person have to deliver double taps to stop a threat, I honestly they need to evaluate the short comings in their skill set and put together a plan to improve the same. I've taken hundreds of hours of professional training in handgun, rifle, and shotgun. From all if it, the only course of fire where we routinely delivered two shots was when shooting handgun.

This is not meant as a dig on anyone....just saying there are other properties associated with a rifle that I would consider of much more importance.

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Stu

I agree. One round hits and groups for rifles (for the short story). From my background,accurate cover fire with a rifle was more important than any double taps (are for handguns). That was before select fire came along and that's a whole nuther' story in itself...

I have always been taught and believe to be true, if you have to shoot twice with a rifle, practice more. There is an old adage that is true in war and the hunt field! "One shot, One kill" There is almost nothing that bothers me more than seeing someone shoot an animal, hit it and that animal thrash about or run off bleeding badly. To me that is just cruel but that is my opinion and opinions are like anuses everyone has one. But it is also to each his own. I would love to have a middy, that is closer to the way the AR was designed to operate.

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Grover Oathkeeper

While we are talkin' middy here...

Does a standard bayonet fit a middy?

If it has a bayonet lug, then yes, a bayonet will lock right in.

As to the recoil issue, and the doubletap: To adjust for different recoil on the .223 rifles, the best way is to take a mild mannered 7mm Remington magnum and run a half dozen thru it quickly.
After this, any and all 223 based rifles will be very much more manageable. ESPECIALLY the ones that have the recoil buffering semi auto option.............

Now, onto doubletap with the rifle: While the preferred course of action is to put anything down with 1 well placed shot- the 223 can, and will do this when things go well. But when faced with anything but ideal conditions, the 223 lacks a lot of 'thump'. Plain and simple, time and again, I have lit up hogs that were under 150lb and they were hit solid midbody, yet they took off like a rabbit and I had to stalk them with no blood trail because the bullet is so small it leaves no good wound opening. The 223 is rather surgical, rather than woddsman axe in it's function. The best thing about the 223 is the ability to put the 2nd round into the animal right now fast; I anchor many hogs this way in medium cover, or on the move. Have seen homo sapiens drop like a sack of cement to this round, and yet have seen them in an infirmary with up to a half dozen xm855 in the person.....and while not happy, they were still breathing. A ballistic tip style bullet, or Federal Fusion, winchester XP, etc will have a better thump factor to it, but when the chips are down, I would rather have the double tap as a valid option.
FWIW, I have never used the 556 directly in anger; My job was a boat driver- usually too busy driving to be shooting. But I have seen it work, and it does have its' limitations.

Oh that might make sense. He did have a vertical grip, but I shot it using the grip, and w/o. I didn't shoot it side-by-side with the other AR, just his AR. Though it was all stock from the store according to him. I just know that I could get on target faster with either the so called double tap or trying to hit multiple targets close to each other at the range. So maybe it could be a training factor or my bad habits with an AR that kicks a little bit more.

I completely agree with you Grover, I hate to see an animal suffer

The MOE rifle has a different muzzle devise than the Sport, as well as a longer gas system. This may or may not aide in perceived recoil!

Milky thank you, this will result in a difference in perceived recoil.

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Grover Oathkeeper

I teach, and practice, shooting until one's target is gone. There are several ways of doing this with a rifle in a training environment. Please do not rehearse preparing to defend your family by wasting a good sight picture! If a deer hit through the vitals with a 7 mag can run 50 yards before he knows that he is dead, a felon hit through the vitals with a .223 can murder your family before he realizes that you have killed him.

I forgot to mention, 50% of my CQB rifle practice is with a 7.75 pound Bushmaster .308, and I can get 4 hits on a paper plate within one second at 30 feet. Fast hits are quite possible, but good technique and practice are the keys.

When it comes to defense, if you wind up ever having to do it, you will find that it happens in a nanosecond. From the moment when your mind says 'Start shooting' and you draw or you drop that hammer, the world goes into slow motion. Lots of things go through your mind; jump for cover? Run this guy over? Shoot him again? Run for your life? Get in front of innocents and guard them- I will tell you, your brain is going to run this program very fast. When the hits come (Hoping they are not on you) the situation will change. You are both now all in; cards are now on the table, and the hand will play out. In the 2 instances where I have been in this situation, one was a one shot stop. I put one right next to the person's head, thru glass. His weapon hit the ground instantly. It saved his life, by reacting so quickly. I never heard him shouting 'Stop, I give up', whatever he said. All I knew was what I saw and took in and processed it in an instant. The trigger was already heavy under my finger, and the second shot was pointed center mass. I am really glad that he did drop the gun, and I am glad that I correctly held off on sending the second round out.
The one mistake was the warning shot. I will say; DO NOT EVER, under any circumstances give a 'warning shot'. I will explain:

It's a Thursday night, about 1am. My truck alarm goes off for about 5 seconds; really quickly stopped. I hustled out of bed, and knew this was not a sideswipe from a drunk driver or similar situation. I came out my front door, and saw a Camaro stopped crossways in front of my truck. The passenger door was open about halfway, toward the curb. There was a person in my truck, working the column. As I announced myself, the person in the passenger seat fired a warning shot directly into the ground under my feet. He aimed this, to be certain. Dead center in front of me, about 3 feet under me (I lived on a raised lot about 5 ft high, with a high sloped yard.) The person jacking the truck brandished a weapon immediately as he was clearing around my truck heading for the car. I took the warning shot 100% seriously, and I responded. It's not what you want to have to do. But it happens.
For me, the warning shot from 2 years prior and the training to get myself away from that left me in a position that eliminated a good deal of wasted time. When not wasting time, you can work. When faced with a person hedging their bets and using a warning shot to buy time, it gave me time to weigh options when I was NOT 'working' or 'wasting time'. I had a half second to evaluate things; and react.
I will say, the passenger in the car got the jump on me. I will say with confidence, your good-natured, law abiding mentality WILL allow most people to get the jump on you. I sure did. Even with a lot of training. "Who and why would someone actually SHOOT ME???!!!" Eyep; that's what your brain says.
Anyway, the thing is when I was put into this second situation, there was no stopping at one shot, or 2 shots. I was committed to stopping the threat on me, and that was with more than 1 armed perpetrator. All said and done, the training I did performed one very good task. It engrained into me to A. Stop the threat. And B. It stopped me before wasting ammunition, so I was still viable in protecting myself from any other threats.
The driver of the car never moved an inch; he dove down in his seat, tried to get real small, and would not move for anything until the police showed up. He was content to go with them.
Had he gotten agressive, I was able to conserve some ammo so that I would have at least had a chance to engage and try to protect myself.
And, yet I failed a critical task yet again: I STILL was standing there, thinking the whole time: "What; why would somebody actually try to shoot ME?" And I seriously hesitated, without taking cover, and had this driver been a different sort of person, there would have been an even bigger mess on my hands. Had he been in there with a shotgun with buckshot? I'll say it; I hesitated way too long in the open, even though I more than doubletapped 2 times in 10 seconds.
A second is about 3 times as long as it takes for a bullet to catch up to you.
I agree with Matt; if you are ever in a situation where you must shoot? Do it like a Cicago voter. Shoot early, shoot often.