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Old 11-25-2012, 06:08 PM
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Ok I went out for about an hour and a half to check some of my reloads and just to shoot. I took my new Sport (as of yet unnamed) and my CyberSport. I had reinstalled my 6-24x50 scope and had boresighted it but wanted to check it. I set up my Range @100 yards and was shooting reloaded 55gr Nosler Varmageddon, Midsouth Varmint Nightmare Extremes HP, Hornady V-max and Hornady 53gr V-max. All loaded with 27.4gr of CFE223 and using Wolf .223 primers. I really had a good day of shooting. I thought I was shooting very well and then I picked up the new Sport with the CMC trigger and shot 6 of the 53gr V-max through it. The pictures will tell the story of what a difference a nice trigger can make. I am still blown away. First will be picks of the rifles and my set up then the targets.
the new Sport
the CyberSport
10 shots to get checked out 55gr V-max
5 shots the nightmare X's
7 shots Varmageddons
6 shots 53gr V-max out of Cybersport
6 shots out of the BuffaloHunter60's Sport with the CMC trigger. I am now totally convinced that a trigger upgrade is if not the most important is pretty high up there. I have my trigger on the CyberSport polished with a spring kit, I am going to look very hard at the CMC trigger and see if I can duplicate it with one of the extra trigger assemblies I have. Anyway great time shooting even if I was by myself and didnt spend a lot of time.
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Old 11-25-2012, 06:24 PM
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Darn good shooting and those reloads seem to be working out fine. The Icon should do as well.
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Old 11-25-2012, 06:26 PM
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Nice shooting
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Old 11-25-2012, 06:33 PM
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Darn good shooting and those reloads seem to be working out fine. The Icon should do as well.
John I will have to take some time and load up a range for the Icon, I have 2 different powders that I load for .308 one of them is this same powder the other is IMR4895. So experimentation is coming. Plus I will have to develop loads for the Winchester 100. From what I have read it is really finicky on its accuracy so I will strive to make it happy and accurate. Thanks again for the rifles.
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:20 PM
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The PDogs are in trouble now... Nice shooting. So,Hornady 53gr V-Max with 27.4 grains of CFE223 with wolf 223 primers. Going in my reload notes. 16" barrel,1in8 5r, right. ?
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:31 PM
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Maddmax that is correct.
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:57 PM
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Those are some fine patterns especially with a new modified firearm. Nice shooting man!
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Old 11-25-2012, 08:13 PM
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Maddmax that is correct.
And my "T" thanks you too.
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Old 11-25-2012, 10:48 PM
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I am now totally convinced that a trigger upgrade is if not the most important is pretty high up there. I have my trigger on the CyberSport polished with a spring kit, I am going to look very hard at the CMC trigger and see if I can duplicate it with one of the extra trigger assemblies I have. Anyway great time shooting even if I was by myself and didnt spend a lot of time.
Why oh why did you have to go and endorse an aftermarket trigger pack!

I've just got my combat trigger job skills just right. It feels good to me, but now I'm wondering how good a real good trigger is.

Isn't the CMC trigger a complete drop in trigger unit, similar to a Timney? Great... just great... now I'm Binging up "Rock River 2 Stage" and "Geissele SSA".
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Old 11-26-2012, 07:10 AM
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Nice shooting Grover!
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Old 11-26-2012, 08:28 AM
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Grover, very good shooting, I think the nightmare x-tremes are an excellent bullet. I have great success with them also. I load the 55 gr VMXHP with 24.0 grs of H335 with a col of 2.230 for 3/8th in groups at 100 yds. I have not had a chance to try the varmageddon's yet as I don't have any.
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Old 11-26-2012, 10:42 AM
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Why oh why did you have to go and endorse an aftermarket trigger pack!

I've just got my combat trigger job skills just right. It feels good to me, but now I'm wondering how good a real good trigger is.

Isn't the CMC trigger a complete drop in trigger unit, similar to a Timney? Great... just great... now I'm Binging up "Rock River 2 Stage" and "Geissele SSA".
John I am sorry, it was an eye opening experience. I do have the trigger to compare and a spare S&W trigger to play with. Take up is easy and short, trigger release is just as easy. I try to use my best skills to match the shots between the two rifles. calming my motion, controlling my breathing, trying to pull the trigger back without pulling the rifle to the right. I can do it but it is just a lot harder. After looking at my targets, I dont know if it is the rifle shooting just a little bit right or my finger pulling on the trigger causing my groups to be just a tad bit right. might have been the wind also but @ 100 yards wind effect should have been negligible. The CMC doesnt look to be a self contained unit like the timney but it does have little "c" clips on the end of the trigger pins
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:21 AM
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John I am sorry, it was an eye opening experience. I do have the trigger to compare and a spare S&W trigger to play with. Take up is easy and short, trigger release is just as easy. I try to use my best skills to match the shots between the two rifles. calming my motion, controlling my breathing, trying to pull the trigger back without pulling the rifle to the right. I can do it but it is just a lot harder. After looking at my targets, I dont know if it is the rifle shooting just a little bit right or my finger pulling on the trigger causing my groups to be just a tad bit right. might have been the wind also but @ 100 yards wind effect should have been negligible. The CMC doesnt look to be a self contained unit like the timney but it does have little "c" clips on the end of the trigger pins
The CMC is a drop in trigger...took just a minute to install it...and what a difference between the stock trigger. I wish they would just put in a great trigger in all the AR's like most of my bolt actions are.....kinda spoils you for standard triggers anymore. paid $200 for the trigger and I think you can find it on line for a little less but...its worth every penny.
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Old 11-26-2012, 10:36 PM
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Grover,

I completely understand. I've modified two stock combat triggers with polishing stones, Dremel tool, cotton swabs with polishing compound, and springs. I spent an hour installing, testing, tweaking until it was just right. I believe that I am at the limit of the stock combat trigger.

I liken it to my Ruger 10/22 trigger. I worked on the stock trigger & made it feel better. But no matter what I did, the stock components didn't feel as superb as the Power Custom hammer & sear.

I've researched the RRA 2-Stage Match & Varmint trigger, and found too many mixed reviews. I've heard nothing but good things about the Geissele & Timney. Now both Grover & John give glowing endorsements of the CMC.

I can get a RRA 2-Stage for $92. I can also go the "in for a penny, in for a pound" route and lay out the $200.

Either way it's going to have to wait until after Christmas. I'm a procrastinator, and still have presents to buy.
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Old 11-26-2012, 10:52 PM
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John I looked at the trigger closely tonight as I cleaned the rifles. it is a drop in unit and after looking at it I am not sure that a person can remove that much material and still have a safely functioning trigger. I will eventually get one for the CyberSport but if I practice with it enough I think I can get my trigger pull good enough that when I pick up the new one I will shoot one ragged hole.
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:10 PM
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Grover, your getting pretty close to one ragged hole right now....awsome accuracy, I would have never believed a sport was capable of that kind of accuracy...I used to get that out of my Sako .243 heavy barrel.....Its still hard to believe that a little light weight 16" barrel can do this....of coarse the man behind it has to do his bit...and you have that part down well.
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:46 PM
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Makes me wonder how you will be looking out at 300 yds. The light ammo will drift, but I bet it will not even drop much, and so little as to not need to dope the scope.
Awesome shooting my friend!!!!
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:20 AM
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Grover you will get the one ragged hole.
This is with my Sport with the stock original trigger @ 100 yds. That target is a 1" circle


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Old 11-27-2012, 01:29 PM
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Grover,

I completely understand. I've modified two stock combat triggers with polishing stones, Dremel tool, cotton swabs with polishing compound, and springs. I spent an hour installing, testing, tweaking until it was just right. I believe that I am at the limit of the stock combat trigger.

I liken it to my Ruger 10/22 trigger. I worked on the stock trigger & made it feel better. But no matter what I did, the stock components didn't feel as superb as the Power Custom hammer & sear.

I've researched the RRA 2-Stage Match & Varmint trigger, and found too many mixed reviews. I've heard nothing but good things about the Geissele & Timney. Now both Grover & John give glowing endorsements of the CMC.

I can get a RRA 2-Stage for $92. I can also go the "in for a penny, in for a pound" route and lay out the $200.

Either way it's going to have to wait until after Christmas. I'm a procrastinator, and still have presents to buy.
I thought I was at the limit until today, I took the spare sport trigger I had and worked it hard with a file, dremel, polishing compound and polishing wheel. I kept the edges very sharp. Anyway now I have 4.5lbs of trigger pull. The take up is so slick that you dont really feel it other than the trigger comes back. and then when you hit resistance it is a quick snap with very little over travel. I honestly am surprised at how much difference it made, especially polishing the wear surfaces. Now will come the moment of truth. How does it shoot and not with just a snap cap. I hope to report back with good results and if it does work like it acts I will include pictures.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:31 PM
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Grover you will get the one ragged hole.
This is with my Sport with the stock original trigger @ 100 yds. That target is a 1" circle

Rebs you just have a super natural talent!!! Great group.
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:27 PM
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Nice groups, oneye!
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:45 PM
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Grover you will get the one ragged hole.
This is with my Sport with the stock original trigger @ 100 yds. That target is a 1" circle

Rebs...did you free float your barrel? What are you using for optics? great shooting......What load do you shoot?
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:10 PM
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Rebs...did you free float your barrel? What are you using for optics? great shooting......What load do you shoot?
No free float, I don't see a need for one on a carbine length barrel. My sport is all original except for a Nikon 3-9 x 40 scope. That load was I believe 25 gr of H335 with a 55 gr dogtown soft point, oal 2.230 I would have to look through my records to be sure. Just start at 24 gr and work up from there.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:19 AM
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Rebs...thats damn good shooting and a tribute to what the sport is capable of ....both you and Grover are pretty steady, I am impressed. I am a little worried about Grover, Have not heasrd from him lately and thats not like him...last I heard he was going to pick up a rifle...and nothing since, hope its just his computer being down....I know he has some physical challanges and hope he is ok.
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:31 AM
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Rebs...thats damn good shooting and a tribute to what the sport is capable of ....both you and Grover are pretty steady, I am impressed. I am a little worried about Grover, Have not heasrd from him lately and thats not like him...last I heard he was going to pick up a rifle...and nothing since, hope its just his computer being down....I know he has some physical challanges and hope he is ok.
I haven't had an email from Grover in a couple days, I also hope he is ok.

I checked my notes and found that I also had excellent groups using 24.0 gr of H335 powder.
This is part of why I love H335 so much, it is an excellent powder. I have shot it in temps from 90 to 30 degrees with no temperature affect at all. You can get excellent groups with less of it compared to other powders. Its a clean powder in my Sport. CFE223 and Varget both use more powder per load to reach the same or close to accuracy that you get with less of H335 making it more economical to use. Also I have used CCI #400 primers in over 2000 loads and never a problem with slam fire misfire or anything else.

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Old 11-28-2012, 12:06 PM
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I am here, the VA missed sending out some of my meds because of the holidays, plus deer season started this morning. When I got the new rifle yesterday late afternoon I pretty well dug into it cleaning it and stuff. Thanks for asking
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:55 PM
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Glad everything's ok
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Old 11-28-2012, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by oneyeopn View Post
I thought I was at the limit until today, I took the spare sport trigger I had and worked it hard with a file, dremel, polishing compound and polishing wheel. I kept the edges very sharp. Anyway now I have 4.5lbs of trigger pull. The take up is so slick that you dont really feel it other than the trigger comes back. and then when you hit resistance it is a quick snap with very little over travel. I honestly am surprised at how much difference it made, especially polishing the wear surfaces. Now will come the moment of truth. How does it shoot and not with just a snap cap. I hope to report back with good results and if it does work like it acts I will include pictures.
Good to know everything is ok too. Not use to quiet....

I'm waiting for the moment of truth. Take your time and lets see one hole.
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Old 11-28-2012, 04:57 PM
rebs081 rebs081 is offline
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Grover what new rifle did you get yesterday ? I don't think you mentioned it to me ?
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Old 11-28-2012, 05:16 PM
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Yesterday I got a Winchester 100 (1964) semi-auto .308, actually a very beautiful rifle, piston operated gas system. It doesnt appear to have very many rounds put through it. I will take some pics and post them it will have to be in the lounge though, I thought I emailed them to you. Today I picked up a TC Icon in .308 Leupold 100 year anniversery 3-9x40 Scope. even more beautiful. I am wanting to go shooting today but since the billy goat took my knee out on Thanksgiving I am not walking much. I just cleaned the Icon up and am trying to convince the missus that I can stand enough to go shoot them LOL its not working though
they came from BuffaloHunter60 and I really appreciate them, and him.
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Old 11-28-2012, 05:51 PM
Matthew Courtney Matthew Courtney is offline
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Originally Posted by rebs081 View Post
Grover you will get the one ragged hole.
This is with my Sport with the stock original trigger @ 100 yds. That target is a 1" circle

What load?
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Old 11-28-2012, 06:00 PM
Matthew Courtney Matthew Courtney is offline
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Grover,

Is there any chance that I could get you to organize your load/accuracy data into a chart or table so that we could work from and compare to your data when we get a chance to start working up loads?

Rebs081,

Any load/accuracy data that you have would be beneficial as well, if you are willing to share. Our training business usually takes a dip from mid december through Mardi Gras and we should have a chance to work up loads for Sport 093, Colt 883, and our Reeces PSAeces.
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:11 PM
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What load?
That load was I believe 25 gr of H335 with a 55 gr dogtown soft point, oal 2.230. I checked my notes and I had very similar groups with 24.0 of H335, everything else being the same, bullet and oal.
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:06 PM
Buffalohunter60 Buffalohunter60 is offline
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Grover, once sighted in I would be tempted to see what a .308 can do to a billy goat LOL...revenge is sweet and he may even taste good.....Thanks all for the reloading information...I am going to get back into it...just bought a Stag heavy barreled varminter..24" stainless with a two stage trigger......should be fun but I know I will not be happy until I am shooting my own ammo and have some control over that aspect of it. Darn, if you and Rebs had not shot such nice groups with the sport, I would not have to get back into reloading LOL.

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Old 11-29-2012, 07:31 AM
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Nice shooting Grover!..BTW I like the "Marines" logo on the left side. Sempi Fi brother.
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Old 11-29-2012, 10:18 AM
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Nice shooting Grover!..BTW I like the "Marines" logo on the left side. Sempi Fi brother.
That is a nice touch isn't it?? I like those pistol grips too! Just might have to put something like that on my sporty.
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:10 PM
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That pistol grip with the finger grooves I bought used for $10, it is a First Samco G27, ambi. I wish I could have found another one at that price. The other is a Magpul I got for $20. It was on my homebuilt but I really like how these with the filled in thumb web area feel.
I would have not replaced my upper except I got that one and the handguard for $150 and he added the Eagle, Globe and Anchor on it. They including the charging handle are Nordic, you can tell they stamp a capital "N" underneath them, although the FA and Dustcover came from Brownells and the casting has a "keyhole" on it.
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:10 PM
rebs081 rebs081 is offline
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this is from today, it was one of my best groups with the nightmare x-trem premium 55 gr hp. The one a little to the right I pulled, the guy next to me fired just as I was squeezing the trigger and I jerked


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Old 11-30-2012, 07:41 PM
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Thumbs up Range Report 11/30/12

Ok I worked on my factory trigger on my CyberSport. Now I have an unbelievable trigger that feels like a 2 stage and breaks between 3.5 and 4lbs, I also took the muzzle brake off of the rifle and put a thread protector on it. Today I took it out and shot some groups at 100yards, I had consumed a little too much coffee but my groups improved tremendously. Pics below;
55gr Varmint Nightmare Extreme HP's
53gr Hornady V-max
55gr Hornady BTFMJ
55gr Hornady Z-max

These were all loaded with CFE223 @ 27.4gr. I chrono'd the loads and can give you the data from that. The wind started picking up toward the end of my day but the trigger makes such a difference. Anyway there ya go!!
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:55 PM
rebs081 rebs081 is offline
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Grover, what did you do to reduce the amount of creep in your Sport trigger ?
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:53 PM
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Rebs I removed a little material and then mirror polished the wear surfaces, it feels more like a 2 stage now. You take up the the travel which the trigger just slides, then it gets to a point where it feels hard, from that point it takes just a little pull and it breaks. instead of just pulling it until it breaks you can pull it to the breaking point, you can take your finger off of the trigger at that point and it will stay there but using my Dad's trigger pull gauge at that point it took between 3.5 and 4 lbs to make it go snap. Its not like the CMC trigger but it is 300% better than it was. LOL
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Old 12-01-2012, 08:14 AM
rebs081 rebs081 is offline
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Sounds like a great trigger job Grover
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Old 12-01-2012, 08:57 AM
philevans philevans is offline
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what an informative thread.
this thread seems to be a gathering of the proficients.
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Old 12-01-2012, 09:41 AM
Buffalohunter60 Buffalohunter60 is offline
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This thread is an inspiration for owning a sport and seeing what good reloading and good shooting skills can do. Any one that doesnt like the sport...let me know , cant find them here in NH...waiting for one to come in (at $659) but it has not made it so far and I may be in NZ if they ever get it. Its snowing today and have not had a chance to try the latest AR (the windham or the Stag Varminter) Anxious to try both. I had some H335 and gave it away to a friend...looks like I will get some more of that powder and rebuy all the reloading equip too. Good shooting guys, gives an old man something to shoot for LOL (pun intended)
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Old 12-01-2012, 11:57 AM
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what an informative thread.
this thread seems to be a gathering of the proficients.
That's why I keep reading the posts...that and I'm hoping everyone's shooting skills will come through the computer and improve mine. The guys here are talking about 1" groups, I'm happy to hit the backstop of the range
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Old 12-01-2012, 12:17 PM
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That's why I keep reading the posts...that and I'm hoping everyone's shooting skills will come through the computer and improve mine. The guys here are talking about 1" groups, I'm happy to hit the backstop of the range
I hear ya shinny! Seeing how most of my shooting will either be standing or bring rifle ready standing positions or kneeling I doubt you'll see 1" groups out of me! LOL
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