I love seeing all the new members in here. I enjoy all the threads expressing excitement at owning their new M&P 15, sometimes it's their first AR-15. It's all good. What I have noticed is that there seems to be a rush to change parts, change sights, install optics. If you take a gander at the M&P 15 picture thread, you'll see that I'm a modification nut-job. I've tried different optics, different furniture, different triggers, exotic coated bolts, etc. I understand the urge and the fun of personalizing a rifle.

In all my experiences, here is the one single thing that will improve your rifle's accuracy.




Ammo. Buy the least expensive practice ammo that your range will allow you to shoot. If they let you shoot Russian steel case bi-metal jacket, cool. You don't need the latest, greatest, super premium match grade ammo to practice.

I highly advise learning to shoot your rifle well as-is, out of the box. The caveat being the optics ready guys popping on sights. Get to learn how to shoot a stock combat trigger. Get to learn to shoot with the furniture that's already on it. Get a true baseline performance of the rifle in it's stock configuration and your skill level. The benefit is being able to truthfully gauge the effectiveness of an upgrade. You'll be able to better judge whether an upgrade is worthwhile for you or not.

Before I go changing anything on a firearm, I make sure to shoot it in it's stock configuration. I make sure that I can shoot that gun well as-is. Any upgrades are then a bonus, not a necessity.

The biggest factor that affects a rifle's potential for accuracy is the skill and experience of the marksman behind the trigger. The only way to earn skill and experience is with quality, thoughtful time behind the trigger practicing the basic fundamentals of marksmanship.

Now that I got that off my chest, I can freely spout off about modifying a rifle with this-that-and-the-other.

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-John

And I thought you were going to say "let Grover shoot it"!

Agree, trigger time. Trigger time with proper technique will do the most for improved accuracy. Take a class, and it doesn't have to be a high speed, low drag operator class either. An Appleseed shoot with a .22lr will help you improve.

Here is a good thing to try...

Rifleman's Challenge

My son and I are going to try this next time at the range. Unfortunately, our local range does not allow for prone shooting, so we will use the 25 yard pistol range and support the rifles with our elbows only, similar to prone. No rest.

Oh how very, very true. Practice, practice, practice, and then practice some more.

PS...ENABLER alert

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SFC, US Army, Retired

That rifleman's challenge looks like fun! The ranges nearby me don't allow for prone shooting either. I have to make do with the 25 yard pistol range seated with a bag. The best I've pulled off.



Using my one and only .22lr rifle.



Bricks of ammo have been expended to slowly earn that result.

I wish .223 and .308 ammo were just as affordable. LOL.

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-John

Me? Not me. LOL.

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-John

That is simply un-American! I just bought a Ruger American Rimfire last week. Was looking at our .22s and it occurred to me that I didn't have a magazine fed, bolt action .22. Had to fix that! Went with the American simply because it uses the same 10/22 magazine and I have several of those. Need to go see how it shoots, or how I shoot with it...

OK. Ill up the ante by reducing the cost. Dry fire. Washer drills.

Good advice...do i listen? Nope!! Went out and replaced trigger and added optic very first month! To each his own...but great advise nonetheless!

Agree with OP! That's how I learned to shoot handguns, lots of $$$ spent on ammo and range fees!!

I haven't seen brass cased Wolf? Where did you buy that? I recently bought some steel cased TuLa to try out in my MP15, just to see how it goes. Worth a field test for $5/box! Although I prefer brass.

I've had my rifle for about a month and already have about 400rds through it!

http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.c...dir=18|830|845

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-John

You're going to LOVE your Ruger American. Such a great rifle and super accurate. I don't care for the stock sights, but it's really meant to be a scoped rifle so as long as you put some glass on it I think you'll be very impressed.

I put a Simmons scope that I had in the parts box on it. I don't know that I will stay with that scope... I know that the rings will be changed, but it will have glass on top.

I took a scope off of my 10/22 and replaced the sights with Tech Sights to make it Appleseed ready awhile back. After doing that, I realized I no longer had a squirrel gun.

Be sure to let us know how she shoots.

I get better triggers so my finger doesn't get tired.

I agree ammo is the #1 thing ALL firearms need to further proficiency.

Here is my .22 plinker, was given to my dad by his father at age 6. Marlin #37 tube fed pump, S,L, LR. Notice the Knurled takedown nut.

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/5201/img0044large.jpg

A decent optic keeps my eyes from straining...

My dad taught a progression...starting with aperture sights.

With my kid I'm doing the same...though he's gone irons, to apertures, and next is scopes...though he sometimes "cheats" and uses the red dot with my 22lr.

We practice a lot with airguns. 1K rounds of .177/4.5mm is still cheap.

I just call it break-in time. Zero the BUIS 1" high on paper at 25 yards and just start plinking targets (cans, clay pidgin's) at different yardages not to get bored punching holes in paper. Recheck 1" high 25 yard zero from time to time on paper. 25 yards ? Old Army. 25 will get you 300... Just plinking goes to barrel break-in,trigger break-in and NO mag dumps along with function testing for reliability. I keep round count around 12-15 per minute for a constant barrel heat break in. Do some barrel/bore cleaning around 20-50 rounds progressing as it gets broke in. At first I load only 5 rounds in a mag and do a lot of mag changes to check lock back and any feeding issues that could/can pop up durring break-in.

I've seen too many people spend more on furniture and upgrades than they did on the weapon before they even got it out of the box.

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THIS WE'LL DEFEND ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Not quite the best "thing" to improve accuracy, but the best money I ever spent to improve my accuracy was taking an Appleseed class that taught old fashioned US Marine aperture sight marksmanship and proper use of a GI sling. As a personal opinion I think the organization's message may go a little overboard at times, but I am definitely a more accurate shooter for taking their class

I like the way you think.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thinking about getting a case for $360 delivered. Decent ammo?

Good plinking ammo for the price. The reloadable brass is a definite bonus.

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-John

Man, you must live next door. I just checked and the cheapest shipping was $45. Still, right at $400 for a case of .223 is as good as I can find these days.

There is a place not far from me that has Federal .223 for $450/1,000 out the door.

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Freedom isn't free.

Oh yeah, I'm gonna try that "Rifleman's Challenge", but may have to increase the distance. The shortest distance at my local range is 50 yards and I can't use my rifle on the pistol range.

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Freedom isn't free.

SGammo is in Oklahoma. 339 + 16 shipping. I've been buying ammo from these guys for a couple years. Quick shipping, online inventory display, no games.

http://www.sgammo.com/product/wolf-p...n-magnetic-wol

Double the size of the target if you double the distance. I know their idea is 25 yards, unsupported prone... but we all have to play within the rules of our ranges. I think the biggest thing is just to shoot unsupported... no bags or tripods allowed.

Well guys, I must say I agree........ up to a point. many of us that are new to a mp15 are not new to shooting. Case in point: I have prolly thrown a milllon rounds downrange shooting competition for the last 25 years. I am sorta over the hill and my eyesight will not allow red dots or irons. period. A quality trigger of reasonable pull weight will start ya off better than a ****** one that to often results in flinching. Plinking for fun is just that , fun. I would never try to teach anyone about wind doping or trigger management if the ammo was rotten inaccurate. Doping the wind is almost impossible if the bullet strike is not consistent. Yep, I am new to the mp15. I got it to see if I could do three things. One, as a short carbine capable of fast follow up shots on hogs {using proper ammo]and the occasional deer when in season while pursuing the swine. Two: as a rifle my grandkids and great grandkids can learn to shoot with. Three: to end up with a 300 yard gun capable of taking coyote and crows , foxes, etc here on the farm. Will do the coyote hunting in the pasture mostly at night. Just bought a nifty flashlight holder for the 15. Not saying I will be wildly successful at alll three, but I think it is doable? Just my two cents.

Thanks for the tip. I just ordered a case. This should be decent enough to play with. I'm not looking to win any matches, just get some more trigger time.

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Freedom isn't free.

#1 AMMO, #2 MORE AMMO, #3 A RANGE MEMBERSHIP. YOU CAN'T BUY SKILL OR EXPERIENCE. Things like triggers/action jobs/better fitting stocks will make fine tune type improvements, AFTER steps 1,2 and 3. NO DISRESPECT INTENDED. Of the later improvements, they would depend on the individual. IMO correct stock fit, then a quality trigger, then action job, or re-barrel if you really wanna go nuts.

I have to respectfully disagree with you hangnoose. While there is no substitute for experience, just hammering away with your gun won't improve your shooting. You must practice with a purpose. Doing the same thing over and over will only enhance that repetition. If the process is flawed, then it only bolsters continued flawed shooting.

So, while I agree that more ammo is probably the best physical improvement, the very next thing in the list should be training. In fact, the training should be congruent with the ammo. Buy a bunch of ammo to use at the training class. Then use the extra ammo to practice what was taught at the class.

In addition, training is useless if what was learned is not retained. At the class, focus should be on learning the techniques more than the shooting itself. I have seen many people come out of classes that haven't retained much of what was taught.


Things like better triggers and better fitting stocks don't make for a better shooter. What they do is make it easier to be a better shooter.

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Freedom isn't free.

I thought that went without saying, but you are correct. # 4 could be paid instruction. But practice, the kind just mentioned, helps ANYONE regardless of skill levels.

I think so.

About the only time I put an AR on a rest (usually just tossing it atop a range bag ) is to zero a new optic.

That said, I see plenty of guys with 1x red dots shooting from the bench, and others who have mortgaged their homes trying to get an AR to shoot as well as my out of the box Remington 700. I understand the "range toy" thing, but I'm just not very eclectic when it comes to outfitting and practicing with centerfire rifles.
AR = Offhand lead on target sized groups.
Bolt Action = Supported precision sized groups.

+1!

Often a good instructor can identify one or two things you're doing wrong that once you correct, will dramatically increase your accuracy. I was dragging my trigger finger on the stock and popping my trigger finger to reset the trigger. Just knowing that I have those bad habits makes me check and remind myself before I shoot.

Also, on the Milsurps website there is a posting of the US Marine Corps training video on form, breath control and sight picture. Very worth watching if you can't find a good instructor- and even if you can.

A nice trigger

Range time

Hope you guys don't mind me jumping in. While I am just ordering my first civilian AR today, I have been shooting AR platforms for close to 40 yrs.

I applaud those stating to jump right in with the out of the box equipment.

I received my first .22 rifle at the age of 10. It was a bolt action Marlin and came with a scope. My father took the scope off and for a couple of years I had nothing but standard sights. Best thing he could of ever done for me.

As any real world shooters know- even scope/sights costing thousands of dollars can go bad. Crosshairs comes loose, etc.

Having a thorough background and shooting at an competent level with iron sights is a must. When shooting service caliber matches- only iron sights are authorized. There is a reason for it.

So- practice and become proficient with the lowest common denominator, and have fun while doing it,

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Thanks,
Steve

Bingo! Give the man a Kewpie Doll!

A gal I used to live with was a female barbershop chorus director and she put it best:

Practice does NOT make perfect...practice makes permanent. PERFECT practice makes perfect.

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Bob | KM4DEO
Sport | Glock 22

Any archer would agree with you. You must repeat the good things over and over again to build in consistency.

As a wise man once said "A good pool player will practice a shot until he makes it. But a great pool player will practice a shot until he can't miss it".

And remember!

What separates a good marksman from a GREAT Marksman?

A good marksman will practice till he consistently hitshis target.

A great marksman will practice till he CANNOT miss his target!

Aw, shucks- go have fun!

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Thanks,
Steve

I have 2 Ar's. The first is a M&P 15-22. It's a blast to shoot. It is completely stock. My 2nd also is a M&P but it is the VTACH II model. The only thing I changed on it was adding an ambi mag release and ambi safety. Plus I added an optic since it came as a flat top (it was what I wanted). Both were added because the husband and I are both right hand left eye dominant so we have to shoot rifles and shotguns left handed. I am doing well with them, but I need/want to shoot them more.

I am fine with freedom ammunition rounds, great quality, $5 shipping and compatible price! Latest shots:

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Guns ...

I just got my M&P 15 Sport yesterday but I wont get to go try her out until this weekend. I cant wait to see how well I can do with the box stock model, and I do have hopes that maybe I could actually get into some competition shooting with it in the future.
The only thing that I just had to buy for my rifle was a good used Colt A-2 carry handle and a "bullet button".
For some reason, I just had to go somewhat old school with that carry handle. Besides, I'm not sure that I'll like the Magpul rears. I have 360 rounds to try her out with, although I'm sure that they will mostly be used up just plinking since my wife and son are really wanting to shoot it.

Just be a little careful with freedom reman ammunition. Sometimes a bad casing gets through QC. I had a couple friends experience case web separation firing Freedom pistol ammo. Yanked the rim and web out, left the remainder of the brass case lodged in the chamber.

I tried out 100 rounds of Freedom .223 reman. I had a couple reman rounds where the case rim was probably past it's usable life. The extractor tore a chunk of the rim off, leaving the remainder of the spent case in the chamber.

I like shooting Freedom munitions remanufactured. I like saving a few bucks. I just make sure give a good eyeball to every round that goes into the mag.

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-John

I've been buying freedom munitions 9mm (new and reman) in bulk. Thanks for the heads up!

I recently switched to it. I reload on a Lee Breech Lock Hand Press. Because I don't have an auto-indexing progressive press, I find loading 9mm to be a PITA. Resizing the tapered case gets tiresome without the leverage a bench mounted lever gives me. The volume v.s. time v.s. savings ratios aren't there for me.

It bugs the snot out of me to buy factory new 9mm 115gr "practice" ammo at almost $15 per box of 50. Freedom reman 9mm saves me time, frustration, and driving around to find ammo.

I buy reman .40 S&W to run through my stock Glock barrel. I shoot those and don't bother to pick up the slightly bulged cases. I don't have the right setup to run .40 brass through a bulge buster kit.

Everything else, I'll reload myself.

Freedom reman is just a commercial reload. For the volume they produce, there will always be a flawed round somewhere just like factory ammo. I just give each round a quick eyeball. I'll also randomly check a spent case for signs of failure or overpressure.

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-John

that is excellent advice. i will do just that before start customizing. but those pimped up ad's sure do look good,lol.