Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Smith & Wesson Rifles and Shotguns > Smith & Wesson M&P15 Rifles
o

Notices

Smith & Wesson M&P15 Rifles Dedicated to the Smith & Wesson M&P-15 Rifles


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-22-2014, 11:13 PM
steven0150 steven0150 is offline
Member
Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help  
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Default Optic help

Okay guys I need some help. I'd like to buy a nice optic. I thought I'd want the strikefire but I don't know yet. My range only has 100 yards at the furthest.

Okay these are what I've been thinking:
Burris AR-F3
Vortex strike fire

A primary arms mini red dot or a red dot scope.

How durable are the primary arms scope.

I don't know which one I want haha. Can anyone give me advise.

Why a red dot scope, and not a red dot sight. You'd get more field of vision with a red dot sight.

Thanks everyone with dealing with me. When I'm done with my AR I'll post a pic.

And if I get a scope id like the xtr-14.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-22-2014, 11:18 PM
JaPes's Avatar
JaPes JaPes is offline
Member
Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help  
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: NW Suburbs, Illinois
Posts: 4,013
Likes: 3,272
Liked 3,961 Times in 1,871 Posts
Default

The best advise on a budget red dot I can give is to read these two web blog comparison tests.

?Budget? Red Dot Sight Comparison ? Part 1 | The Bang Switch

?Budget? Red Dot Sight Comparison ? Part 2 | The Bang Switch

The Primary Arms and Vortex are in the reviews and rankings.
__________________
-John
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #3  
Old 04-23-2014, 10:21 AM
steven0150 steven0150 is offline
Member
Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help  
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Default

I mean I'm not really budgeting. If I find something I'll buy it. Just don't want to spend 600 on an aimpoint micro. Thinking on a bushnell xtr-14
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-23-2014, 10:22 AM
steven0150 steven0150 is offline
Member
Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help  
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Default

Or 1300 on a trijicon acog. If I had the money I would. Nice optic
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-23-2014, 11:52 AM
SiGfever SiGfever is offline
Member
Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Virginia USA
Posts: 153
Likes: 25
Liked 43 Times in 28 Posts
Default

If you want a quality red dot that will be there when the cows come home, Aimpoint PRO, H1, or T1.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #6  
Old 04-23-2014, 01:41 PM
ChattanoogaPhil's Avatar
ChattanoogaPhil ChattanoogaPhil is offline
Member
Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 14,661
Likes: 7,937
Liked 20,623 Times in 5,958 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steven0150 View Post
A primary arms mini red dot or a red dot scope.

How durable are the primary arms scope.
I have two PA MicroDot on my 15-22 and Ruger pistol. About three or four years. Work perfectly.

Will you require more durability than this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMosefuud0I

I have an Aimpoint H1 on my AR, but there are endless positive reviews from AR owners on Primary Arms. If your AR is a range toy and not expected to handle heavy abuse then the Primary Arms should serve you well.

Last edited by ChattanoogaPhil; 04-23-2014 at 01:54 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #7  
Old 04-23-2014, 01:45 PM
JaPes's Avatar
JaPes JaPes is offline
Member
Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help  
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: NW Suburbs, Illinois
Posts: 4,013
Likes: 3,272
Liked 3,961 Times in 1,871 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steven0150 View Post
I mean I'm not really budgeting. If I find something I'll buy it. Just don't want to spend 600 on an aimpoint micro. Thinking on a bushnell xtr-14
So what is your budget? You can get an Eo-Tech 512-A65 for under $400.

__________________
-John
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #8  
Old 04-23-2014, 01:45 PM
Ohsheepdog's Avatar
Ohsheepdog Ohsheepdog is offline
Member
Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help  
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 516
Likes: 2,659
Liked 345 Times in 144 Posts
Default

If you plan on doing any shooting outside plinking or casual shooting I'd recommend an Aimpoint. Drop any of the cheap ones once & you'll see what I mean. Buy cheap & buy twice...
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #9  
Old 04-23-2014, 02:09 PM
thecatch8 thecatch8 is offline
Banned
Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help  
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Virginia
Posts: 350
Likes: 20
Liked 106 Times in 73 Posts
Default

didn't take this thread long to turn into Aimpoint vs EOTech.....
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-23-2014, 06:41 PM
Rastoff's Avatar
Rastoff Rastoff is offline
Member
Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Posts: 14,710
Likes: 2,926
Liked 17,102 Times in 6,271 Posts
Default

As much a fan as I am of Vortex, I had parallax issues with the SPARC. I haven't tried the Strikefire. However, I will say what I always say when it comes to optics; don't try to save money on them.

More fun will be had if you hit the target. The target will be hit more if your optic works well.

I've run through several optics trying to prove my hypothesis wrong; I've failed every time. Spending more money to get the better optic has always resulted in a broader grin on my face.

EOTech and Aimpoint optics can be found used for under $400 fairly easily. The Primary Arms stuff seems to get good revues, but I'd be concerned with parallax. Of course, the parallax might not be bad enough to cause you any real trouble depending on distance.
__________________
Freedom isn't free.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #11  
Old 04-23-2014, 08:00 PM
Ohsheepdog's Avatar
Ohsheepdog Ohsheepdog is offline
Member
Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help  
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 516
Likes: 2,659
Liked 345 Times in 144 Posts
Default

Wasn't slamming EOTech at all. I just have experience with the Aimpoint & find it works for me.

I was referring to the lower price point sights like Tru Glo, etc, on 223 & up rifles. The $50-$200 sights are great for plinking on 223s & 22s of all kinds, but not for duty or field use. I have a Tru Glo red dot on my M&P-22 AR & it's perfect for it's purpose , but I wouldn't put it on my 223s.

I'm not willing to chance my life or a hunt with cheaply made equipment, whether it's a sling, sight, sight/scope mount, or even the rifle itself. I've seen too many fail in training & in the field.

Like others have posted here, I've tried the cheap route & the product has failed every time.
I'm NOT an equipment snob, just a realist.

Last edited by Ohsheepdog; 04-23-2014 at 08:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-23-2014, 08:15 PM
PPCSHOOTER PPCSHOOTER is online now
Member
Optic help Optic help  
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: IL
Posts: 1,205
Likes: 9
Liked 673 Times in 272 Posts
Default

I'M SORRY TO THROW A WRENCH INTO THE WORKS. BUT THE BEST VALUE IS THE BUSHNELL TRS-32. I HAVE EOTECH'S, AIMPOINT'S ,A STRIKE FIRE, PRIZMATIC. THE LEUPOLD PRIZMATIC IS MY FAVORITE BY FAR. BUT IT'S EXPENSIVE. I BOUGHT THE TRS-32 USED JUST TO PLAY AROUND WITH IT. I WAS AMAZED WITH THE PRODUCT . IT'S THE ONLY THING FROM BUSHNELL THAT I LIKE. CHEAPER THAT A STRIKEFIRE BUT MUCH BETTER. JIM P
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-23-2014, 08:37 PM
gunny4053's Avatar
gunny4053 gunny4053 is offline
US Veteran
Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Rigby, Idaho
Posts: 1,599
Likes: 539
Liked 1,475 Times in 601 Posts
Default

There are a number of optics mentioned here that I have no experience with, so I won't attempt to sway you away from them. I do, however, have experience with Primary Arms. I got their 30mm red dot and absolute co-witness mount, and have been very happy with it. It's held zero, I haven't seen any parallax issues, and battery life being between 800 and 1000 hours ties it all together for me.

Good Luck with your choice, and good shooting.
__________________
SFC, US Army, Retired
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-23-2014, 09:24 PM
steven0150 steven0150 is offline
Member
Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help  
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Default

Thanks guys. I went to cabelas and they had a strike fire and they price matched it for 100. I just want to get used to red dots before I drop 500+ . I just bought the AR and still getting a feel for it. It's a nice solid rifle and happy with the purchase. If I buy any, probably the aimpoint. Just something about eotech I don't like. That micro is pretty cool.


Thanks everyone. I'll post a pic of my rifle when I finish building on it
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #15  
Old 04-23-2014, 10:27 PM
Rastoff's Avatar
Rastoff Rastoff is offline
Member
Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Posts: 14,710
Likes: 2,926
Liked 17,102 Times in 6,271 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steven0150 View Post
I just want to get used to red dots before I drop 500+ .
I completely understand this. The Strikefire has good reviews. While you'll hear someone like me complain about things like parallax, most people won't see it at all. Keeping the dot away from the edges will make parallax almost nil. Just don't expect bench rest precision from a red dot and you'll be fine.


The Aimpoint, any Aimpoint, is a great optic. They have the longest battery life and are super tough. Turn it on when you buy it and forget it. Replace the battery(s) every 4 years or so, just to be sure they don't die on you, and you're good.

The EOTech Holographic Weapon Sight(HWS) is also a super tough optic and worth every penny, in my mind. I like the 65MOA circle and how it helps at close range. However, the HWS, due to the laser, does burn through batteries a lot faster. It is, as ChatanoogaPhil likes to say, a boat anchor. They are larger and heavier than the Aimpoint.

The Trijicon ACOGs are scopes and not red dots (Trijicon does make red dots too). So, they are really in a different class. The advantage of the red dot or HWS over a scope is they have infinite eye relief. This helps is quick acquisition. Of course, the scope rules when shooting at further distances.

In the end, this stuff comes to a Ford vs Chevy debate with the Dodge crowd hanging on the fringe. As you grow used to your gun, you'll find where you want to be. Or, you'll turn out like me and have a scope on one gun, a red dot on another and an HWS on still another. I'm so conflicted.
__________________
Freedom isn't free.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #16  
Old 04-23-2014, 10:31 PM
Rastoff's Avatar
Rastoff Rastoff is offline
Member
Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Posts: 14,710
Likes: 2,926
Liked 17,102 Times in 6,271 Posts
Default

Just to be completely anal....

This is why I like the EOTech reticle:

__________________
Freedom isn't free.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-24-2014, 09:44 AM
ChattanoogaPhil's Avatar
ChattanoogaPhil ChattanoogaPhil is offline
Member
Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 14,661
Likes: 7,937
Liked 20,623 Times in 5,958 Posts
Default

Parallax can be more of an issue for pistol shooting, but if you have any kind of a consistent cheek weld on a rifle there should be little perceivable parallax.

Here is a vid of a PA MicroDot at 50yds. I took the optic off the rifle to allow for more camera movement. Notice the extreme amount of camera movement while the dot barely budges (you'd have to be a car rear windows bobblehead to duplicate ). The dot shows more and less bright which is an effect of the camera. Best if you adjust settings to 1080p HD or 720p HD (the little gear icon at the bottom right of the vid screen) and full screen mode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvLmPbkbsd0
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #18  
Old 04-24-2014, 01:41 PM
JaPes's Avatar
JaPes JaPes is offline
Member
Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help  
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: NW Suburbs, Illinois
Posts: 4,013
Likes: 3,272
Liked 3,961 Times in 1,871 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steven0150 View Post
Thanks guys. I went to cabelas and they had a strike fire and they price matched it for 100. I just want to get used to red dots before I drop 500+ .
That almost described me. I tried to get used to red dots and find the "just as good as" dots too. By the time I figured it all out, I spent more in various low cost optics than a single Eo-Tech 512.

For me this expensive discovery led me to my preference in budget dot = Primary Arms M3 Clone or Microdot.

After that Eo-Tech or Aimpoint, they're both worth the price they command. There's nothing to complain about with either of them.
__________________
-John
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #19  
Old 04-24-2014, 02:33 PM
Rastoff's Avatar
Rastoff Rastoff is offline
Member
Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Posts: 14,710
Likes: 2,926
Liked 17,102 Times in 6,271 Posts
Default

John makes a good point about learning from others experience.

This is a common thread in the gun world. Guys want to start "low dollar" and then get better stuff as time goes on. I see it the most in the shotgun realm. The say, "I can't afford that gun so I'm going to buy this cheap $200 one to get started." Most of the time, that $200 one just puts them $200 further from a gun they really want/need.

I'm nervous about the Primary Arms stuff because the price is so low and I've yet to have a low dollar optic perform well. However, Phil's video is very compelling. I may have to pick one up just to play with.
__________________
Freedom isn't free.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #20  
Old 04-24-2014, 04:03 PM
JaPes's Avatar
JaPes JaPes is offline
Member
Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help  
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: NW Suburbs, Illinois
Posts: 4,013
Likes: 3,272
Liked 3,961 Times in 1,871 Posts
Default

Price doesn't always directly correlate to quality. On the flip side, quality is dependent on the entire manufacturing process. There's a grey area in there that's the sweet spot.

The one place where quality does correlate to price is optics. I learned this the hard way. You can't just cheat the price for optics, though the rule isn't absolute. There will always be a standout that balances budget and quality to hit that sweet spot. The Primary Arms red dot optics hit that sweet spot.

I think of it as being like my Hi-Point JHP45. I didn't expect that much out of it for the price, and was pleasantly surprised that it functions better than the price alludes.
__________________
-John
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 04-24-2014, 05:44 PM
ChattanoogaPhil's Avatar
ChattanoogaPhil ChattanoogaPhil is offline
Member
Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 14,661
Likes: 7,937
Liked 20,623 Times in 5,958 Posts
Default

Rastoff, frankly I think your Vortex was just fine. That you could prove it had parallax with a camera moving back and forth is one thing, but as a practical matter shooting with your head up against the stock I believe it would have performed just fine.

I agree about experimenting with dime store optics. For those who are buying NcStar, Barska, Sightmark, Leapers, AIM, UTG... and all the other Chinese labor camp optics, it's difficult to have a lot of confidence. So why fight it? PA has plenty of choices for 1x red dots and mounts that are designed for AR platforms. There are endless positive reviews from guys with ARs. Price is right and and their customer service is second to none. That's how I began using their stuff about four years ago. Read tons of reviews. Everyone was reasonably happy. No need to shop further for a dime store optic. That's not to say that others are not just as good... I just don't see the value in experimenting. That said, my two PA MicroDot and compact 4x scope are all on .22s.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-24-2014, 05:55 PM
thecatch8 thecatch8 is offline
Banned
Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help Optic help  
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Virginia
Posts: 350
Likes: 20
Liked 106 Times in 73 Posts
Default

All great advice guys...which gets back to the original point about just going out and shooting the **** out of your rifle out of the box. Then, when you have mastered your fixed sights, you can move onto more technical additions to your weapon system.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
what optic are you using on you M&P 10? freedoom Smith & Wesson M&P10 Rifles 102 10-10-2018 09:48 PM
M&P 15 Optic Ready VS Windham Weaponry Optic Ready Disabled1 Smith & Wesson M&P15 Rifles 10 04-08-2017 10:35 PM
Optic for a 460? Lost Lake S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 1 08-25-2015 09:38 AM
Need help with an optic 88k10driver Smith & Wesson M&P15 Rifles 5 06-01-2013 10:47 AM
686 optic? brownbing Smith & Wesson Competitive Shooting 9 03-13-2013 07:47 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:53 AM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)