Hello everyone!

I recently purchased a M&P15 Sport at a local gun show here in Miami, FL. I got a great deal on it $585 OTD Cash.

I've added several items to it as you can see on the picture.

I recently purchased a Sight mark Red Dot which I love. I zero'ed in at 50yds with it. Yesterday I purchased a 7x magnifier and mounted it on the rail. While I love the look my issue is that the red dot is now blurry. I've been reading on this and can't find a definitive answer. Do any of you have this set up? encountered the same problem? Can you assist? Thanks!

Here is a picture

Attached Images

MP15.jpg (130.7 KB, 668 views)

Ahhh...... 'The look.'

You have stumbled upon yet another reason why so many will recommend certain optics, and swear by them and not at them.
Your red dot is like a 3MOA dot. Yes, that's a 3" circle at 100yds. With a 7x magnifier, you just stepped that dots' diameter up to 21" @100yds. This is in general why the .mil sticks to Eotech and Trijicon. They have much more precise red dot/ reticle quality, and it makes for a lot less distortion when used with a magnifier. This is also why the .mil tends to stick to a 3x or 4x magnifier for their optics on an M4 equipped with a red dot sight.
Most Eotech's commonly used are a 2MOA dot, if you can find a 1mil dot, or a fine crosshair reticle of various types, those work extremely well with magnifiers.
Step down to a 3x or 4x magnifier and you will see the dot clarity improve, or put a different red dot on the rifle- so you can regain 'The look' that makes the difference...... the one INSIDE the scope.

Phil, I don't think that one is backwards... that tail is where the LED is that projects up to the glass.

Risking repeating myself, but IMO, if you want magnification you are better off going with a scope... especially 7x magnification.

I would go with a 1-4 variable power scope. These can be used like a red dot on the low end, and allow you to have some magnification.

Something like this...

Bushnell - 1-4x 24mm Throw Down PCL

Oooops, you're right.

I'll delete my message.

Looked backwards to me too. Also (for me), that sight is way too far forward. I don't mount anything (sight related), past the D ring.

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THIS WE'LL DEFEND ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Doesn't that magnifier have a focus adjustment ? All mine do.

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The EoTech dot is actually 1/3 MOA. The human eye is diffraction limited and perceives the 1/3 MOA dot to be 1MOA. When you pop a 3X magnifier behind an EoTech the dot is magnified to 1MOA, and your eye still perceives 1MOA.

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-John

I have the Vortex Viper PST 1-4x for our AR's. Like the 1x followed by the quick flip to 4x. I'm pretty good out to around 300 yards on it.
Primary Arms just released a 1-6x that is gaining tons of traction. I like the simplicity of one unit. If you choose to stay with the magnifier I would drop back to 3x as others have mentioned. Good luck as it can be challenging finding what you want/works.

Right. Mounting optics on the handguard never seemed like the right idea to me either. That said, the magnifier is so dang long that there isn't any alternative. The Chinese designer probably never had an AR in his hands.

First red dot I bought was a Sightmark. I put it on my Mini and took it off the same day. Would not hold zero. I put it on my 10/22 and took it off the same day and stuck a cheaper TruGlo back on there (that shoots rails!)

My son, bought a Sightmark for his AR. First day we took it to the range, he zeroed it and it lost it, after 5 rnds. We tried the mount, making sure it had a good hold and still... it would not hold a zero and got progressively worse. He ended up ripping it off and shooting irons.

He also has the magnifier. It seemed to be a little higher quality, though I did not like the limited sight picture. He replaced the red dot, with a Vortex Sparc and I assume is keeping the magnifier. I'll ask him, when I get a chance what he thinks.

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The Eotech's dot is precise, that is why they don't distort as much. A lesser beam focus is hazy on the edges, and it grows because it's splattered on the reflector glass, whereas the Eotech has a very good angle to keep the beam well focused.

I used a couple different ones, and when magnified, the red dot consistently completely covered a target downrange. My son has a cheapo red dot 'scope' with zero magnification. He hits to 250 with it. We put a 3x magnifier on, and the red dot went to a red blob!

Thank you for all the help guys. I called sight mark and they explained my red dot was not compatible with the magnifier. I needed a Pro Version which pairs with the magnifier and there won't be a distorted or blurry sight any more.

Cyphertext,

I am loving that scope with the feature as if it where a red dot.
I might switch over to this. Does it hold zero for you well? What rings did you use to mount?

Yes it does..

Yep it's long as hell... Therefore I am forced to put the red dot that far ahead. I might need to switch.

I don't have one of these scopes... I use unmagnified red dots and/or open sights on my AR.

I do have a Bushnell or two on other rifles and have not had any issues with them holding zero.

A friend of mine has a Millet 1-4 power scope that I have shot with. He has it mounted with the Burris PEPR mounts. I like the reticle of the Bushnell better from the pics I have seen online.

EOTech....Aimpoint

/thread

Agreed but when your on budget, sometimes those are out of your reach. For about $280 the Bushnell seems like a great alternative. In reality I haven't had issues with the sight mark I just want to go further out.

I might as well jump on the band wagon here. I won't try to beat a dead horse to much, but the combination of a Sightmark ( possibly the worst red dot on the planet) and over magnification has created the perfect poo storm on top of your rifle. If you want the look and want inexpensive at the same time, go to Primary Arms. I'll have to look, but I believe they will bundle a Micro red dot, mount, and a 3X magnifier for just over a $150. PA are top notch, and if you need to stay inexpensive (not cheap), are well worth the money. I have their 30mm red dot on my Sport with no magnification, no complaints at all. In all honesty, mine is being replaced by an Aimpoint M2 Comp, not because there's any issue at all, but because I got a deal I couldn't afford to pass up. Good luck in your quest.

Good Luck and good shooting.

Just took a look at Primary Arms, Micro red dot, lower 1/3 co-witness riser, 3X magnifier with flip out mount, $166.95 plus shipping. Look in the sale section.

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I am not sure, but I have read the reviews on the Sightmark Red Dot and there not bad. I will admit I didn't do my research any by the correct one for the magnifier but as far as each product by itself doesn't have bad reviews?

While I like the "look" I don't care for it. As long as you hit bulls eye thats what matters...

Exactly! You'll do fine.

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SFC, US Army, Retired

If you are shooting at paper and want magnification, forget all the fancy bang-zoom tactical stuff and get a conventional 3-9 scope. Slap a Bushnell on that rifle for $75 and it will beat any red dot / magnifier setup for shooting at paper.

In a reflex sight, you are looking at a reflection of a light in a curved mirror. The curvature of the mirror makes the light look like it is 50 yards or so away. If you move your eye around, the dot will be stationary on a subject 50 or more yards away, but move relative to closer objects.

A telescope won't change the point of aim, but it will magnify the dot and any optical defects producing that dot.

The dot of an Aimpoint looks larger but sharp at 3x magnification, and at 10x through my binoculars. Paying 10x as much as the Sightmark buys higher quality. Is it worth the money? That's a personal decision. Sometimes good enough is good enough. The Aimpoint holds its zero on an M1a, and will burn continuously for three years. In short, it's booney quality.

An Eotech uses a laser, not an LED. The reticule is created by an hologram in the reflector. The center dot does not grow with magnification, although the 65 MOA circle does.

I have a $35 copy of an Aimpoint on an airsoft rifle. The LED dot is sharp under magnification. I suspect the Sightmark uses something else to produce the reticule, or is just a lemon.

I'm not an expert on magnifiers so I have a question. My EO Tech has a 1 MOA DOT with a 65 MOA ring. If you magnify the target and the dot, the 1 MOA dot remains 1 moa and just as a 12" target remains 12", right? Both get magnified to the same degree, wrong?

I've thought about getting a magnifier to use on the range. The red dot is great for 50 yards and in. Reaching out to 100 yrd and beyond you can only hope for 6" groups.

Even though the sight is closer to the magnifier I would image both magnify to the exact same degree. If that's wrong can someone explain it to me?

I put the Bushnell scope mentioned above on my new AR tonight. Hope to sight it in sometime in the next week. It looks like a nice scope and I am excited to try it out.

For the Eotech the ring and dot should remain proper and in focus with magnification.

That's what I thought. Explain to me why in post #3 you said a 3moa would become a 21" dot at 100 yards under 7x mag. The dot get bigger but so does the target, so the dot does not become 21", right?

No; with a laser, the point does not increase in size when it's focused on the correct plane; how do I say it properly?? Eotech's are designed specifically to not increase the dot at distance. But also, this is dependent on getting the layout correct. Put the magnifier in front of the red dot optic, and everything you see will be magnified.(It happens; people leave the red dot to the rear, and add the magnifier in front. Is supposed to be installed behind the red dot as it were, closest to the shooters' eye.
The difference between an Eotech and most other sights is the design of the laser layout; it will stay crystal clear while most other units will blur a bit as the image expands. Most units are not directly broadcast to the screen, they are reflectives, and just it works out different. A lot goes into the better optic red dots and holo units. You can tell by sharpness of image, and how the light is there, yet does not shine or glow as it is viewed.

As to the increase in the size of the dot vs. the target, the target size is not increased to the point where it is a '1 to1' image; with a 12x scope at 50 yds, the target looks bigger than the given size; you are looking at what PART of the bullseye you are aiming for. Yet the same 12x out at 250yds, you are looking to cover the bullseye with the crosshairs, and unless you have a fine crosshair, you are not really going to be splitting the dot, but rather completely covering it.

Did THAT explanation make sense? Trying hard to grasp for the right explanation here. Okay, yes; this is making sense.! If you put a magnifier BEFORE a scope, the crosshairs would expand, albeit slightly, because the focus of the magnifier part makes for less magnification up close, before the magnifier has achieved its' focus. (When we tried this stuff out, putting a 4x behind a 9x scope; the crosshairs all but disappeared, though the target WAS able to be double magnified after we adjusted the eye relief and focus on the scope. No benefit, just a wild try at something.)
A very fine laser is like a reticle; it's fixed so to say. And at distance, stand alone by itself it will cover a larger portion of the target. But a lesser red dot the light is not nearly as well designed, so it glows and grows as you magnify.

Sorry about the long winded jibberish.

Also, proper focus is a little different than say a 1 to 1 magnification. Ala, clarity of the optic.

I think what you are saying is the holograph produces a sharper recital which does not blur as much when magnified. I don't think you are saying the dot actually gets exponentially bigger with other sights but that they gets blurrier which make them appear bigger and making it harder to select an aim point. I can understand cross hairs on a scope begin lost with double magnification, that's probably because you are focusing on a target so far away you cannot focus on both the target and the cross hair at the same time. They are so far apart.

I want to buy a magnifier for my XPS. I'm guessing XPS's 1 MOA will remain 1 MOA after it's magnified.

Maybe its just me but I just looked at a MSR at Bass Pro yesterday, it already had a EO Tech and magnifier on it and when you flipped the maginifier down and looked thru it both the reticle dot and circle both increased in size more than I expected. so the target and the reticle got larger looking thru it.

I think that what is supposed to happen, they both get larger but the dot still only covers 1" circle on the target