I'm considering using my M&P 15 for deer hunting this year. It will give me another reason to shoot the MOE some more. Where I hunt is pretty thick and brushy and if I do get a shot it will be less than 100 yards.

I'm curious to know what you all would suggest for a load. Was thinking maybe the Nosler ballistic tips.

Cheers

If I was to hunt with a .223 I would likely use the Winchester 64 grain ammo


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The Remington Hog Hammer is fairly common around here. It uses a 62gr Barnes TSX projectile.

Didn't no one tell you that ain't no hunting rifle!

In jest, of course

Maybe these?

Cor-Bon DPX Hunter .223 62gr Barnes Triple-Shock X Bullet Lead-Free 20rds DPX22362/20 - .223/5.56mm - Rifle Ammunition - Ammunition

Pretty sure it will do just fine dropping a deer if I do my part. Correct load and well placed shot.

Anything with the Barnes TSX bullet should be good. I don't use the AR for deer, but I do for hogs. For the hogs I have used cheap Silver Bear 62 gr hollow points.

I have a box of the Barnes in case I get a wild hair up my *** and decide to use my Sport for a deer. I use the 150 grain Barnes TTSX bullet in my 30-06 for deer. I've been using it a couple years. Really impressed with its performance. Plus it's all copper, holds together well...I haven't found any fragments anywhere processing the deer I've shot. It's nice not having to worry about lead in your food.

Anyway, the Barnes is what I'd shoot if I was using .223 for deer. I think it could be an ethical round, as long as you're careful and take an ethical shot.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/171...free-box-of-20




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I think the Barnes TSX will be the way I go.

The place I hunt is thick brush. I'm in a little valley and when the banging starts on opening morning they come running right past me. The first year I got one there I had my .270 Savage w/3-9 scope on it. Three deer came through my shooting lane, the first one I shouldered the rifle, caught the tail of the second one in my scope and the third completely filled my field of view with brown hair. I pulled the trigger and got a spine shot.

The unfortunate thing was I ruined a fair amount of backstrap and the bullet fragmented. I thought I got it all, but ended up biting into a hunk of bullet a few months later.

My MOE M&P 15 has an Aimpoint Pro on it and would have been better than my 3-9 scope for that situation.

With my situation and the right load, I don't see any problem using the M&P 15.

Thanks for everyone's input. Barnes TSX will be what I try out.

NOT Nosler Ballistic tips! They are for coyotes, prairie dogs and woodchucks. In 224 caliber, Nosler does not make a BT that is suitable for deer, that I'm aware of. I would recommend Nosler Partitions.

Back when I used a 223 for deer 64gr soft points worked wonders!!

Roughly six or seven years ago I decided I wanted to try taking a deer with an AR15, in my case a "ban" version Armalite M15 National Match acquired circa 1998. I tried to find a well constructed bullet that would pack a little extra weight, but there wasn't much available locally. I did finally locate a box of 60 grain Nosler Partition bullets, and that's what I used to put down a nice buck at roughly 60 yards. It worked well, but I did decide that I would not do it again, and haven't. It sounds as though the Barnes TSX 62 grainer might be a good choice too, but really, a 223 isn't a proper deer caliber. It does work if your shot-placement is good, but it's marginal at best. Nowadays my choice for deer is a 308, 30-06, 45/70 or, in handgun caliber, 500 S&W.

As a footnote, decades ago when I was a starving college student, my only gun, rifle or handgun, was a 6.5" Model 27 that my dad had given me for Christmas. Over the course of about 9 years of interrupted school and military service, I used the 27 to take a half-dozen deer.....all legally. I was lucky, never had one get away, but did have to search long and hard for a couple of them after taking the shot. So, once again, short of a survival/apocalypse situation, I would not use a 357 handgun for deer either!

60 gr. partitions for me. you need a 1/9 0r 1/7 twist & drive them fairly warm.

I took a nice 10 point with 62gr power point pluses but it took a long time to die. Same year I dropped a doe at 80ish yards and she got up and ran after laying like she was dead for five minutes. I couldn't even track her because there was very little blood.

Decided to go back to using a marlin 336 in 30-30.

I used to use the Winchester 64 grain and the Barnes X.
I have since switched back to more appropriate chamberings for deer.

My .444, .303, 6.5x55, .308, and .30-06 deer loads just won't fit into my Magpuls, no matter how hard I shove.
I must be doing something wrong.

I respect the animals I hunt, even the hogs, too much to use a varmint round.
.223 has it's uses. It's a fantastic varmint, coyote, and beaver round.
It's about as well-suited to deer as .30 carbine.
Even less so, at short ranges.

I hear it's a great round for zombies.
Sadly, I only see zombies in movies, video games, and TV shows.

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What would Jim Cirillo do?

Ballistic tips are a bad idea for dear. That type of round can do a lot of damage. But because it is designed to fragment, it might not penetrate to the vital organs well and either way it's going to ruin a lot of meat.

A good soft tip or expanding (but not fragmenting or FMJ) round at least 62gr or heavier is the better choice.

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686/M&P9 Pro/M&P15X/M&P15-22

I use handloaded 60gr Nosler Partitions when I use a .223. Usually when I want to carry an AR I use my RRA 6.8 SPC with handloaded 95gr TTSX. I just prefer the heavier, larger caliber bullet.

I appreciate all the comments. I guess I'm still on the fence if I will use this rifle for deer hunting. If I do I will be using a 62 grain Barnes TSX.

Someone above mentioned that it wouldn't be good for close range. Could someone explain this? One of the reasons I wanted to use this rifle is because it has an Aimpoint red dot on it. The place that I hunt would be sub 100 yards, most likely sub 50 yards.

The last deer I harvested on that spot was with a scope on 5 power and all I could see was brown hair in the field of view.

Why less so at short ranges?

I started my daughter deer hunting with a little 223 single shot carbine, all shots were from about 30-70 yards... none ever got away, nor more than about 50 yards from the shot to point of pile up.

You can kill a deer with a small caliber but I don't think it's the best choice and think you will be more successful with a larger cal.

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Hue 68 noli me tangere

.223 at 3,200 FPS is more likely to fragment and not penetrate enough.
It can be done, but it only works well under perfect conditions.
It is the wrong round for the job.
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

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What would Jim Cirillo do?

I agree. Having a more humane caliber would be my preference. There are really affordable packages from Savage (Axis), Ruger (American), Howa, etc. that come in calibers more suited for deer if you're on a tight budget. The Savage Axis rifles are crazy accurate for any price. For not a lot of money you can have a dedicated deer rifle in a better caliber.

.223 is especially wrong since you seem to be a bit casual about shot placement. (Shooting at a scope full of brown hair and all).

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Do or do not. There is no try.

All of you naysayers do realize that there are rounds specifically designed for hunting today that were not available 20 years ago, right? Not all .223 rounds are varmint rounds.

I've taken hogs with my AR, and hogs seem to be a bit tougher than our smallish deer here in Texas. I wouldn't have an issue with using a .223 here on deer, especially shooting from a steady position in a stand, at an animal in a food plot or coming to a feeder 100 yds away.

It wouldn't be my first choice if I was taking a shot at a trophy buck on a hunt that I paid big money for, but for smaller bucks or does, it should work fine. Shot placement is key.


The Myth: The .223 is too Light for Deer - American Hunter

I would never shoot a deer with ANY .22 caliber bullet, out of respect for the animal..... unless my life actually depended on it. Just sayin'.

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Not in Kansas anymore, Toto.

I tend to be a bit compulsive about shot placement, and the lightest that I have used for deer was 165 Speer Nitrex 308. I have done crop damage and hunted for 45 yrs, all were one shot. Now for the nasty reality, I have recovered all but 1!!!, distance of shot was 30 yds- 450 yds all were double lung, some included heart ( 45% ). That said "dead" deer have run 40-110 yds. Of the 45 + taken over 200 yds 95% dropped in their tracks, ( Which I believe is due to the fact that they never heard the shot), shorter ranges tended to run farther on average. On dressing them all the bullets passed through and the damage( was incapable of supporting life) yet they ran!! 15 seconds of oxygen in a deer may allow them to run 100 + yards. The 62 gr barnes TSX is a excellent bullet and would work well, but it and any other bullet caliber combination requires more than " a scope full of brown hair". If 5 power is too high, dial it down or get something else, taking a bad shot really does not make sense. Be Safe,

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I BACK OUR BLUE

QUOTE |:My .444, .303, 6.5x55, .308, and .30-06 deer loads just won't fit into my Magpuls, no matter how hard I shove.
I must be doing something wrong. "/ END QUOTE... You need to try a really BIG hammer.

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Not in Kansas anymore, Toto.

I have posted this on other sites, but here goes: I won't use a 223 on whitetails. Period. Two years in a row I had to help a friend find does shot in the boiler room with 60-grain Nosler Partitions. One ran 400 yards plus, we found the other over 600 yards away. Both were dead, but the very scant blood trail made it incredibly difficult, and both deer took well over two hours to trail.

IF I was dead set on a 223 for deer, I would use a soft/thin jacketed bullet like a Sierra, aim for the lungs, and hope for complete disintegration of the bullet and maximum shock to the CNS.

But as I said, I won't use one on deer. Period.

Yes exactly, this was the whole point of potentially using the M&P 15 because it has the 1x Aimpoint on it. The deer I took with the scope full of brown hair was with a Savage .270 and did great to drop the deer in his tracks, however, I'd say I was very lucky to get him. I certainly have respect for the animals I kill and wish them a painless and speedy death. Unfortunately though, what happened last time ended up being a spine shot. I dropped him on the spot, but it took another head shot to put him down permanently. I also ended up ruining some backstrap and biting into a hunk of lead a few months later. Another reason I want to go with the TSX copper.

I appreciate everyone's thoughts. I'm still on the fence. At any rate, I'm pretty sure I'm going to use a Barnes TSX bullet no matter what caliber.

I don't really want to attempt to mount the Aimpoint on the .270, that wouldn't be ideal either.

my son's first deer - yes -that is a S&W 15OR

dropped him at approximately 200 yrds




Federal 60 grain

maybe all you "humane" hunters should buy your meat in the grocery store, where "no animals are harmed"....

Hmmmm. My favorite M&P15 deer load is a 150-170gr .308 in an M&P10. (64gr .223 to shoot deer? Seems quite unnecessary, maybe even a bad idea.)

Even so, why do it. Recoil sensitivity? Bigger is better, even if only a little bigger... My little girl can handle .243 and 7mm-08... and certainly .308 in my recoil-buffered M&P10... so, why shoot a deer with a .223??

I will have one, to go with my M&P15, eventually

in the mean time.....??

the boy gets the 223 and i'll use the 30-30

You are doing it all wrong... too little gun and I don't see a bit of camo on your boy!

Why, never missed a shot, never lost a deer, never had to go more than about 50 yds to find one..64 gr sp 223 seems like a great Idea!!

Barnes TSX 70 gr

Winchester Power Point 64 gr

Shot Placement is critical for deer with .223

I wouldn't brag about shooting a dog-sized deer with a poodle-shooter.
I'm glad your son got his first "deer", but that deer should have been left alone to grow up.

If you can afford an AR and all the tacticool mall ninja gizmos, you can afford a deer rifle chambered for a cartridge that is appropriate for the job.

Just because a magazine article says it's a good round for deer doesn't make it so.
Remember all the Marshall and Sanow BS that was being pimped in the '90s as the gospel of stopping power?
Once it came out that the results were falsified, the M&S worshippers at the gun rags got very quiet on the subject.

Magazine writers have only one job, and that is to write articles that appeal to a specific demographic and increase magazine sales. Reality be damned.

If you want to hunt deer and hogs with a varmint round, go ahead. I have no respect for anyone who uses underpowered cartridges on game animals. Such "hunters" give all hunters a bad name and have no business hunting.

All the Texas hogs I've seen killed with 5.56 Poodle-Shooter are tiny excuses for hogs. Hogs in GA are MUCH bigger.

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What would Jim Cirillo do?

.223 isn't a legal cartridge for deer here in Indiana. I doubt I would use it if it was

Happily, the 223 is not legal for big game here in Colorado.

Not all deer are equal, I normally hunt whitetails in Michigan and Pennsylvania. For the last ten years it has been with a .243, before that a 30-06. The bucks are usually over 200 Lb. with the mature Does not much smaller. The .243 needs a good shot placement on these deer, a minimum of a heart lung with a good bullet. I use a 90 grain Scirocco 2. The first year I used the rifle I used a 100 grain Core-Lock, which was the small rifle version of what I had use for 30 years in my 30-06. The core-lock worked great on the buck I took at 150 yd, but blew up badly at the one I shot at 30 yd. I have been using the premium bullet since then and have take 12 deer, bucks and does with one shot kills. Small bullets need perfect placement to kill deer. The does I take are with base of head shots and none are over 100 yd. In case your wondering, I practice at 100 & 200 yd rifle ranges with a minimum 40 rounds once a month. If all you see is hair in the scope, you can't pick out the heart or head.

If all you see is hair, with a 5x scope, the deer is close enough for you to just point shoot (or "no scope" for the CoD fans among us).

I like .303 Brit with a 174 or 180 grain bullet and 6.5x55 Swede with a 140 grain bullet.
I really like Hawk Bullets.
Dead soft lead core/dead soft, pure copper jacket=perfect mushroom/deep penetration DRT deer.

When I bought my first 5.56 poodle-shooter, I thought it would be cool to take a deer with it and rub it in the faces of all the old farts who insisted upon using cartridges appropriate for deer.
I was going to show them.
And it worked great as long as I got a perfect cervical spine or brain stem shot.
For pump house shots, it failed miserably far more often than not.
It will do the job with perfect placement.
Trouble is, animals seem to revel in giving us far less than perfect broadside shots.

I don't take chances on losing meat or causing an animal to suffer.
Don't get me wrong, aside from eating the meat, the kill is my favorite part of the hunt. It's a huge primal adrenaline rush.
But I don't want any animal to suffer. Except spiders.

With so many cartridges that are exponentially better than .223 for big game, there is no reason to use it on deer/hogs.
If recoil sensitivity is a problem, you don't have to use .30-06, .444, or .45-70.
6.5x55, .260 Remington, 7mm-08, .257 Roberts, and .303 Brit are fantastic deer rounds that aren't hard kickers.
.30-30 has killed a helluva lot of deer.
.35 Remington is even better.
.243 with 100 grain bullets is very good for smaller-than-Northern whitetail.
Heck, a great deer rifle can be had for a lot less than an AR.
As someone else has mentioned, a .308 AR is a great choice, if you want an AR style deer rifle.

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What would Jim Cirillo do?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is just plain wrong. Although I don't believe deer should be shot at much past bow range with a .223, your first deer is always a trophy. I've seen more than one child button popping proud of his/her first deer become embarrassed and ashamed because some unthinking adult belittles their kill. We end up losing another hunter that we can't afford to lose.


You must be talking about Pennsylvania. In 45 years of hunting, I have seen exactly one buck dress over 200 pounds. In the northern lower peninsula, a big doe will dress at 120 lbs and a big buck at 140.

if your going to use your ar, buy a 300blkout barrel, atleast you would have a better punchout.

That is a legal deer here in Texas, and there is nothing wrong with a young hunter taking a deer of that size.

Hogs are not game animals here in Texas... they are nuisance animals that destroy crops and fields and create hazards for cattle and horses. I shoot everyone of them I see, no matter what firearm I have on me at the time.

Yup, another moronic law here in colorado they have lots of them here!!

Keep up that mindset and the freakin gun grabbers and PETA puffers will make it illegal to hunt with 30-06 or .308 or 270 or....... "Because it is just inhumane..", "it shows no respect for the animal..." Buy a 50 cal or stay home

Some of you crack me up -- you are worse than them because you should know better

He didn't kill it with his clothes

You are so cool...... Hate much ???

Wish I lived in Ga -- where everything is better

If all you can see in the scope is brown then the power is turned up too high for the distance that you are shooting at. Try looking at something in the area that you will be shooting in and adjust your scope for that range. You should be able to fit the whole deer in your scope and see the whole deer in the scope. This is the only way that you will guarantee a shot placed where you want it to go.
Sgt. Bill

Yeah, the guy is pretty tacky.. and man, I don't want to see any GA hogs if they are so much bigger! The last hog I shot down at the ranch in Texas was 456 pounds..

I have a bad right shoulder that I have had 5 major surgery's on and the last one left a steel plate across the clavicle to hold the shoulder in place. I have hunted deer for over 50 years with many cal. weapons but mainly a Win. in .270 cal. Now I can not take the recoil from this type of weapon so I have built a new 6X45 (.243)on a AR type platform with a extra heavy bbl. I handload all of my hunting ammo and I am putting together a load with a Hornady 100 grain Boat Tail Hollow Point that will be moving at about 2,550 F.P.S. The weapon has a 3X9X40 scope on it and it will shoot into 1" or less at a 100 yards all day. Again the shot placement is the most important part of the shooting. This weapon I can handle with the light recoil. For Black Powder season I will just switch to the left shoulder.
Sgt. Bill