Thinking of buying an M&P 15 TS

[Overpaid Union Thug]

I've been researching AR15s allot lately and I seem to be leaning towards an M&P 15 TS. Minus the lack of an optic (which I'm not even sure I want one yet) it seems to already be put together much like I'd like my AR to be. Simple, yet "tactical." I love the rail. I can't find a whole lot of reviews on this rifle and the rifle itself seems to be a little hard to find too. Much like it's reviews. I do hear that its essentially a SBR but without the headache of a $200 fee, paperwork, and long waiting. Hey I'm all over that! LOL!

Since I am new to the gun world my question is....what are the positives/negatives of having the flash hider permanently attached to the barrel? I don't plan on ever going suppressed so what other negatives are there? And positives too.

[AR-Getsome]

Smith and Wesson M&P 15TS 5.56 NATO 16 inch Black 6POS Online Gun Store

Smith and Wesson M&P 15T 811041 Rifle 5.56NATO 16inch 30rd Black Rail Online Gun Store M&P 15T

Smith and Wesson M&P 15 Sport 811036 Rifle 5.56 NATO 16 inch 30rd Black Online Gun Store M&P sport. It was $530 this summer. Price is up a lil. The big question is, what do you want to do with your rifle? HD, Plink, competition?


What i have read, M&P ts is 1:7 twist, the 15 t is 1:8 5r which seems to be a desired barrel that used to be in the sport. The sport is now a 1:9 twist. Every AR rifle I own is 1:9.

I don't know why the FH is permanent . I wouldn't want it because i would want to change the FH or even change the handguard at some point. Have you looked at the M&P 15t? Or the M&P sport. You can get a sport for less that $600 these days, then you can add what accessories you want.

[JaPes]

First and foremost, welcome aboard.

If you want that 15-TS, go for it. I can't think of a pro of having a permanently attached muzzle device. Even if you're not going to run suppressed, you may want to install a different muzzle device other than the standard bird cage. You could install a compensator, a three prong flash hider, a krinkov style muzzle device that directs all the blast and noise forward, etc...

Unless your state laws require a pinned muzzle device, don't do it. It limits your options.

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Originally Posted by AR-Getsome

Smith and Wesson M&P 15TS 5.56 NATO 16 inch Black 6POS Online Gun Store

Smith and Wesson M&P 15T 811041 Rifle 5.56NATO 16inch 30rd Black Rail Online Gun Store M&P 15T

Smith and Wesson M&P 15 Sport 811036 Rifle 5.56 NATO 16 inch 30rd Black Online Gun Store M&P sport. It was $530 this summer. Price is up a lil. The big question is, what do you want to do with your rifle? HD, Plink, competition?


What i have read, M&P ts is 1:7 twist, the 15 t is 1:8 5r which seems to be a desired barrel that used to be in the sport. The sport is now a 1:9 twist. Every AR rifle I own is 1:9.

I don't know why the FH is permanent . I wouldn't want it because i would want to change the FH or even change the handguard at some point. Have you looked at the M&P 15t? Or the M&P sport. You can get a sport for less that $600 these days, then you can add what accessories you want.

Do you think I should buy the Sport (because of the cheaper price tag) and just buy the Troy Rail and replace the stock rail/hand guard myself? Is that something that is simple to do? I'm new to this so I have no idea. I am guessing that if I did I could end up with virtually the same rifle but at just under $1000 and without having to go through an FFL holder because most gun stores seem to have the Sport around here. I'd also have to replace the front sight with a flip up. I can't stand the other kind that is already on there.

My goal for the rifle is indoor/outdoor range time, shooting random targets on friends' land, and the dreaded home defense scenario. I don't plan on ever competing.

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Originally Posted by JaPes

First and foremost, welcome aboard.

If you want that 15-TS, go for it. I can't think of a pro of having a permanently attached muzzle device. Even if you're not going to run suppressed, you may want to install a different muzzle device other than the standard bird cage. You could install a compensator, a three prong flash hider, a krinkov style muzzle device that directs all the blast and noise forward, etc...

Unless your state laws require a pinned muzzle device, don't do it. It limits your options.

I know little to nothing about any of those at this point. My decision on choosing just about anything on a rifle at this point is mainly based on the look and cosmetic appeal of each part. LOL!

[JaPes]

I'm putting together a bunch of your posts into quotable chunks. It should help you answer your own questions.

Originally Posted by Overpaid Union Thug

Do you think I should buy the Sport (because of the cheaper price tag) and just buy the Troy Rail and replace the stock rail/hand guard myself? Is that something that is simple to do? I'm new to this so I have no idea.

Here is my advice. Because you are new and do not know what you do not know yet:

1. Buy a factory complete rifle. Because you do not know what you do not know yet, it is a very good idea to buy a rifle manufactured by a company that has the resources to back a warranty. S&W is a well known big brand.

2. Buy a factory complete rifle that is outfitted as much as possible the way you want right out of the box. Most of the time, it saves you money over the long run.

Regarding replacing the handguards & parts and whether it is easy to do, it all depends on your mechanical aptitude. What is easy for me to do may not be easy for you to do.

Originally Posted by Overpaid Union Thug

My decision on choosing just about anything on a rifle at this point is mainly based on the look and cosmetic appeal of each part.

Originally Posted by Overpaid Union Thug

Do you think I should buy the Sport (because of the cheaper price tag)

No. The 15-Sport's cost savings are due to the omission of standard AR-15 features and the use of standard AR accessories. The omissions include:

• No Dust Cover
• No Forward Assist
• Integral Winter Trigger Guard
• Slim diameter handguards without heat shields.

Since you are buying based on appearance, the omission of the forward assist and dust cover means the 15-Sport isn't for you. You want a M&P 15 rifle that looks like what you see on TV, movies, magazines, etc.

One tip: what looks good may not actually feel good under live fire. Get to a gun store. Shoulder as many AR-15's with different stocks, fore ends, grips, etc.

Originally Posted by Overpaid Union Thug

My goal for the rifle is indoor/outdoor range time, shooting random targets on friends' land, and the dreaded home defense scenario. I don't plan on ever competing.

Cool. Then pick whatever full feature M&P 15 floats your boat. The M&P 15 rifle will fit the intended roles.

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Originally Posted by JaPes

I'm putting together a bunch of your posts into quotable chunks. It should help you answer your own questions.



Here is my advice. Because you are new and do not know what you do not know yet:

1. Buy a factory complete rifle. Because you do not know what you do not know yet, it is a very good idea to buy a rifle manufactured by a company that has the resources to back a warranty. S&W is a well known big brand.

2. Buy a factory complete rifle that is outfitted as much as possible the way you want right out of the box. Most of the time, it saves you money over the long run.

Regarding replacing the handguards & parts and whether it is easy to do, it all depends on your mechanical aptitude. What is easy for me to do may not be easy for you to do.






No. The 15-Sport's cost savings are due to the omission of standard AR-15 features and the use of standard AR accessories. The omissions include:

• No Dust Cover
• No Forward Assist
• Integral Winter Trigger Guard
• Slim diameter handguards without heat shields.

Since you are buying based on appearance, the omission of the forward assist and dust cover means the 15-Sport isn't for you. You want a M&P 15 rifle that looks like what you see on TV, movies, magazines, etc.

One tip: what looks good may not actually feel good under live fire. Get to a gun store. Shoulder as many AR-15's with different stocks, fore ends, grips, etc.



Cool. Then pick whatever full feature M&P 15 floats your boat. The M&P 15 rifle will fit the intended roles.

Cool. I was just told by a friend who is into guns that based on my intended uses and desired features for the rifle, and the fact that the TS has a decent flash hider (Vortex) on it that I probably won't need to remove anyway, that I would be better off just sticking with the TS.

[JeffDeMello]

I chose the TS over the VTAC II because I likeded the look of it. My TS shoots great. The flash hider is weld on because it has a 14.5" barrel. Buy what YOU like.

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Originally Posted by JeffDeMello

I chose the TS over the VTAC II because I likeded the look of it. My TS shoots great. The flash hider is weld on because it has a 14.5" barrel. Buy what YOU like.

At this point it looks like the only thing that could keep me from going with the TS just yet is that maybe, just maybe, one day I'd want to change the hand guard on it. I wouldn't be able to. Other than that I would be happy with it right now in it's current configuration. I actually dig the VTAC II too. Its about $300 more than the TS at one of our local gun stores.

[speedyquad]

just throwing this out...build one...put the parts on that you want. it may not be a smith, but it can be just as good. i finished building my first ar just before thanks giving. i have quality parts in it. a chrome lined barrel with a 1:7 twist. a 13" hand guard over a low profile gas block. a very nice stock that i like better than the magpul that i put on my 15-22. etc etc...all for less than $800.



i had never even held an AR before deciding to build this.

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Originally Posted by speedyquad

just throwing this out...build one...put the parts on that you want. it may not be a smith, but it can be just as good. i finished building my first ar just before thanks giving. i have quality parts in it. a chrome lined barrel with a 1:7 twist. a 13" hand guard over a low profile gas block. a very nice stock that i like better than the magpul that i put on my 15-22. etc etc...all for less than $800.



i had never even held an AR before deciding to build this.

For less than $800!?!?! That is amazing! I saw a YouTube vid last night where a guy was basically making fun of people for dropping over a grand on ARs only to replace 60% of the parts with upgrades. I'm sure many of you regulars on this board have seen that video too so I won't elaborate any further on it. LOL!

But seriously......LESS than $800?

I'd like a list of your parts so I can get a general idea of what I'd need to build my own.

[speedyquad]

i was a little misleading...the red dot and light/laser was off of a 715t(*** that i sold) and just laying around. the foregrip was scavengened from my 15-22, but was only 9 dollars from amazon. i'll pm ya the details...

oh, and i had weaved the sling myself. also for the 715t....it then moved to the 15-22. i am going to weave another here soon for this gun.

[JaPes]

Originally Posted by speedyquad

just throwing this out...build one...put the parts on that you want. it may not be a smith, but it can be just as good. i finished building my first ar just before thanks giving. i have quality parts in it. a chrome lined barrel with a 1:7 twist. a 13" hand guard over a low profile gas block. a very nice stock that i like better than the magpul that i put on my 15-22. etc etc...all for less than $800.



i had never even held an AR before deciding to build this.

Congrats on building your AR! The best part about building your own is that you get to choose every part that goes into it. Not only that, anything goes wrong and you'll most likely be able to diagnose and fix it.

BTW. Love the Mission First Tactical minimalist stock. I have one on my lightweight AR-15.

[ClayCow]

Originally Posted by Overpaid Union Thug

For less than $800!?!?! That is amazing! I saw a YouTube vid last night where a guy was basically making fun of people for dropping over a grand on ARs only to replace 60% of the parts with upgrades. I'm sure many of you regulars on this board have seen that video too so I won't elaborate any further on it. LOL!

But seriously......LESS than $800?

I'd like a list of your parts so I can get a general idea of what I'd need to build my own.

That doesn't look hard to do as long as he isn't counting the optics and possibly the light. My friend assembles his own and can get it 600 to 700

[speedyquad]

Originally Posted by JaPes

Congrats on building your AR! The best part about building your own is that you get to choose every part that goes into it. Not only that, anything goes wrong and you'll most likely be able to diagnose and fix it.

BTW. Love the Mission First Tactical minimalist stock. I have one on my lightweight AR-15.

thanks...that's exactly why i built it myself. i know how everything works. i chose the parts that i wanted instead of needing to upgrade later. i just need to figure out what optics i want on it. i'm thinking a nikon p223.

i wasn't sure about the stock until i shot it. it's nice. it feels good on the shoulder,provides the cheek weld that i like/need.

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Originally Posted by JaPes

I can't think of a pro of having a permanently attached muzzle device.

This is why - 14-1/2" Barrel with 1 in 7" Twist and Fixed Vortex Flash-Hider for Overall Length of 16.1"

[JJEH]

M&P15TS, $1,300 shipped CONUS

[ChattanoogaPhil]

$1300 seems like a lot of coin to have into a basic AR with plastic sights and not a decent trigger.

What is the deal with the TRX? Looks like you'd have to remove it from the rifle to install a rail segment.

[JJEH]

Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil

$1300 seems like a lot of coin to have into a basic AR with plastic sights and not a decent trigger.

It certainly is a lot of coin. But it's a free float (if you like that) and comes with Magpul and Troy accessories.

The MBUS sights are just that, back up sights. A good scope or better sights should do the trick.

[AGoyette]

I went for the VTAC II. It had most of what I wanted in an AR. The only things I have changed are the Safety and the magazine release. I swapped them out for the ambi versions. The fact that it already had a Geissele trigger in it stock helped sell it for me. If you are buying one to change a bunch of things on it, go for price. If not, then buy the one that has the most of what you want like I did. I chose to not build one (though I did think about it) because I liked the fact that buying one already factory built, it should already be ready to go, and not have issues. I was concerned that if I built one, what if I had issues and did not know what was wrong.

[ClayCow]

I don't like guns that come with magpul. The secondary market to buy it used or new from another manufacturer is so much lower than the up charge they put on the gun. I only got the magpul moe because my mil discount made it cost effective...I just realized I need to do the rebate

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Originally Posted by JJEH

It certainly is a lot of coin. But it's a free float (if you like that) and comes with Magpul and Troy accessories.

The MBUS sights are just that, back up sights. A good scope or better sights should do the trick.

Maybe, I don't know. I just don't get the economics of this gun.

A $550 Sport with a $250 Wilson Combat trigger and $370 Aimpoint PRO would make a heck of a nice rifle and still have money left over to shop around for a FF handguard.

[JJEH]

Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil

Maybe, I don't know. I just don't get the economics of this gun.

A $550 Sport with a $250 Wilson Combat trigger and $370 Aimpoint PRO would make a heck of a nice rifle and still have money left over to shop around for a FF handguard.

I don't know either. With $1,300 in my pocket I would go a different route. But that's just my personal opinion...

[ClayCow]

Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil

Maybe, I don't know. I just don't get the economics of this gun.

A $550 Sport with a $250 Wilson Combat trigger and $370 Aimpoint PRO would make a heck of a nice rifle and still have money left over to shop around for a FF handguard.

Similar but not so great analogy. Spending that much on a "lower" end gun are like people who buy beater cars and put more into stereo and rims than the worth of the car. Obviously with guns it's a bit different as the value is kinda still there and it's not like a sport is necessarily a "beater" car. More like a barebones Mercedes with Manual locks and windows

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Originally Posted by ClayCow

Similar but not so great analogy. Spending that much on a "lower" end gun are like people who buy beater cars and put more into stereo and rims than the worth of the car. Obviously with guns it's a bit different as the value is kinda still there and it's not like a sport is necessarily a "beater" car. More like a barebones Mercedes with Manual locks and windows

Trigger and optic are fundamental to any rifle. The shooter will benefit from a quality trigger and optic on a Sport every bit as much as on a TS or any AR.

[JJEH]

Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil

Trigger and optic are fundamental to any rifle.

Agreed. But what kind of trigger/optic/etc really depends on the purpose.

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Originally Posted by JJEH

Agreed. But what kind of trigger/optic/etc really depends on the purpose.

Right, but that is beside the point.

An optic or trigger doesn't become any more or less worthwhile mounted on either rifle. For example, the notion that an Aimpoint is somehow inherently mismatched on a $600 Sport, and is more suited to a $1300 TS doesn't wash. That was how I read the wheels/car argument being made earlier.

To your point, yes. Either may be used for nothing but a range toy and a dime store optic may be well suited. Or both may be designated as a go-to self defense gun where a top shelf optic is better suited.

[AZBonecrusher]

O.P., congratulations on your VTAC II purchase. I own the M & P TS and it's a fine rifle, however, as a retired military via BudsPoliceSupply.com it only cost a little over $900 (w/M & P Finest Rebate). If I recall correctly a VTAC II was a little over $1.3k. BudsPoliceSupply.com.

In any case, the VTAC II should be a fine multiple purpose rife. Enjoy!