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  #1  
Old 07-10-2015, 09:44 PM
therapture therapture is offline
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Well, I have to say, for my first AR, I am LOVING this platform. It's like having a laser that I can point and shoot with ease! A long time shooter of various guns though so it was easy to pick up an AR. I shot a few hundred rounds first and have made simple mods over the last few months, as I learned what I wanted to do with it. I am a very value conscious person, I like quality AND cheap, sometimes hard to do. So anyways, here it is. I think I did a good job making simple EFFECTIVE mods.


-base model with no forward assist/dust cover, bought at a local gun show 6 mos ago with a Magpul rear MBUS and a cheap ncstar RDS and quad rail. $700.00
-cut down the stock front sight post -free
-EOtech EXPS2-0 (this thing is phenomenal) $539.00
-Spikes ST-T2 buffer $40.00
-Magpul MBUS Gen 2 flip up front sight $39.00
-Magpul MOE stock $38.00
-Magpul MOE grip $25.00
-Magpul Gen2 Pmags - 4 of them for $55
-Geissele SSA 2-stage trigger (like falling in love!) $225.00
-Amazon muzzle brake - loud, but damn it works! $20.00
-UTG drop in slim aluminum handguard (so thin and comfortable!) $65.00
-Vtac padded sling $40.00

Total: $1781.00

As you can see, I spent the cash on parts that REALLY make a difference in comfort and ease of use. The sight is a thing of beauty, I rarely shoot past 100 yards. I removed the stock A2 sight because I wanted 100% clear FOV via the EOtech holo sight. I also liked the ultra secure stock gas block so I just wanted that post out of the way (plus it's a free mod). I want fast acquisition, and with my mild astigmatism, the sight is great with scrip glasses.

The trigger, well, the SSA is wonderful...so clean and crisp! SO easy to shoot and no pull from a stiff or gritty trigger - my stocker was very gritty initially but loosened up a little after cleaning and lube, but I think was STIFF. When shooting at a moving target (hogs, various vermin), I can feel the first stage engage and that makes it easy to engage, aim, and fire as soon as I have a nice sight pic without jerking the gun around from trigger pull.

I have ran @1500 rounds through it so far and it only had a single failure to feed one time when the gun was new (and VERY dry). It has performed WONDERFUL! I zero for 50 meters, where I can consistently hit 2" groups off of a simple tree brace with cheap 5.56 brass Federal XM193. I can do 1.5" with any kind of a bench, I have never tried a sandbag, bipod, or anything special. (that probably sucks but it'll get better with practice). But considering I shoot 90% short distances at 100yds or less, I don't need a range gun since I only use the range for a little fun and dialing in sights. This is a south Texas "brushland/pasture gun" for fast accurate shooting with lots of off hand aiming.

Opinions? Sorry about the ****** pic, apparently black guns are hard to take good pics of!




Last edited by therapture; 07-12-2015 at 11:00 AM.
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Old 07-10-2015, 09:51 PM
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That is really cool. I just bought mine and threw it under the bed (in a case of course) because I wanted to have one that was light weight. The ones I've built up get so dang heavy I tend not to carry or shoot them as much. Weighing in around 6 pounds I figure that little Smith will be the one I pick up to clear out my yard when the SHTF.
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Old 07-10-2015, 10:28 PM
therapture therapture is offline
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Yeah I definitely wanted it nice and light. I need to weigh it I guess...it feels light!
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Old 07-23-2015, 09:07 PM
matchbook454 matchbook454 is offline
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Nice! I just ordered a sport and am looking for mods. Not that the gun needs them but because it's fun to dress these things up!
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Old 07-23-2015, 09:34 PM
McE McE is offline
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We have very, very, different ideas about what a "budget build" is.
I bought my M&P15 Sport for what you paid for the Eotech alone lol
Not something I would need for shooting within 100 yards. If anything I'd be just dandy with a red dot for a tenth of the cost.

matchbook, first mods I would recommend are the grip and stock. I didn't like the original hard plastic grip, went with a nice Hogue. Stock stock wobbled, really like my Magpul CTR stock with two locking levers that eliminate wobble.

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Old 07-23-2015, 09:41 PM
Arik Arik is offline
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I'd say the rifle is about $200 overpriced
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Old 07-24-2015, 07:32 AM
matchbook454 matchbook454 is offline
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Just a question as I just bought my first AR - a MP15 Sport. Are these considered carbines? Looking at dressing it up with a quad rail and see some listed for carbines,mid length, etc.? Like I said, I'm a newbie!
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Old 07-24-2015, 10:19 AM
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IME, the name used (pistol, carbine, mid, rifle, etc..) is simply to describe the relative length of the parts. An AR-15 Carbine is usually shorter than an AR-15 Rifle. There is no exact standard for what these words mean. It is further complicated by using these names for individual parts. Barrels can be Carbine, or Mid, or Rifle. Gas systems can be Carbine, or Mid, etc... Buffers, and buttstocks can be named that way. And, hand guards/rails can have those names. People mix, and match these different length parts to what ever they want. A carbine buffer with a mid-length barrel, with a mid-length gas system, with a rifle length rail. Or, any combination.
To answer the question, directly, IMHO the Sport is a carbine, only because the various parts are on the shorter side. The parts are not "rifle length". Therefore, the whole thing is called a "Carbine". However, this does not limit you to using only "carbine" parts. You can change parts lengths around to your liking. Some thing are more difficult to change. You can't usually change the gas system length without changing the barrel. Changing the hand guard length can be quite easy.
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Old 07-24-2015, 12:41 PM
McE McE is offline
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Originally Posted by matchbook454 View Post
Just a question as I just bought my first AR - a MP15 Sport. Are these considered carbines? Looking at dressing it up with a quad rail and see some listed for carbines,mid length, etc.? Like I said, I'm a newbie!
You'll have to look for a carbine length drop-in quad rail, the ones that are free-float will need more things to change on your Sport.

Consider why you want a quad rail, though. I personally think they're bulky and pointless when people buy a huge quad rail only to throw rail covers on it. Holding a quad rail is uncomfortable and awkward, even with rail covers.
Many handguard systems let you add sections of rail only where you need it. One for foregrip maybe, another for a light, what else do you need?
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Old 07-24-2015, 04:52 PM
matchbook454 matchbook454 is offline
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Thanks for the help guys! I would most likely only be adding a fore grip and maybe a tac light. Any suggestions on good hand guards that would allow me to add these? Not looking to spend a bunch on top end stuff but want something solid and free floating.
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Old 07-24-2015, 06:41 PM
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Thanks for the help guys! I would most likely only be adding a fore grip and maybe a tac light. Any suggestions on good hand guards that would allow me to add these? Not looking to spend a bunch on top end stuff but want something solid and free floating.
Maybe you should start your own thread, you're all over the place with what you want.

You're on a budget, your gun presumably isn't a competition target shooter, but you want a free float handguard for some reason on a gun you're going to throw a tac light on which I can only assume means it's more of a defensive rifle where whatever accuracy you eke out from going to free float is insignificant.
You're going to have to remove your front sight gas block. Are you capable of doing this work yourself? Do you have the proper tools? Or will you have to pay someone?

Skip the free float fetish. You want a quad rail, you'll be fine with a drop-in.
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Old 07-24-2015, 09:55 PM
matchbook454 matchbook454 is offline
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McE, sorry for asking for a little help on the forum. Thought this would be a good place to ask as the thread is about mods. For a few extra bucks, I would take free floating over drop in unless someone can tell me what the advantage of a drop in would be? Like I said, this is my first AR and I'm a newbie. As for any work required, I can do it myself. Just not all that familair with the AR's at the moment.
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Old 07-24-2015, 10:20 PM
therapture therapture is offline
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IF you are not going for a tight 1 MOA or less target gun, save the money and don't go free floating. Free floating a handguard relieves some stress (a little) off of the barrel and allows slightly more accurate barrel. Most people with free floaters can't shoot well enough to tell a difference.

Yes, unless you need it, a quad rail is bulky and obtrusive. I chose my handguard specifically to be slim and comfortable. I can add small sections to it if I need to mount a light or something (I doubt I ever will, it's not that kind of gun).

Shoot the gun first, learn the open sights, then make mods based on real world needs/comfort. Hence why I bought a well respected "cheap" gun and did mods over the course of 6 months as I learned what I wanted/liked, and what I was using the gun for.
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Old 07-24-2015, 10:24 PM
therapture therapture is offline
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Not something I would need for shooting within 100 yards. If anything I'd be just dandy with a red dot for a tenth of the cost.
It's all about my EYES With astigmatism It's difficult with open sights - seeing that blurry mess on top of the rifle and then having a blurry mess out at 50 yards is no fun. With my glasses, the EOtech reticle is clean and defined AND I can see clearly at distance. Best of both worlds!
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Old 07-24-2015, 10:58 PM
McE McE is offline
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Originally Posted by matchbook454 View Post
McE, sorry for asking for a little help on the forum. Thought this would be a good place to ask as the thread is about mods. For a few extra bucks, I would take free floating over drop in unless someone can tell me what the advantage of a drop in would be? Like I said, this is my first AR and I'm a newbie. As for any work required, I can do it myself. Just not all that familair with the AR's at the moment.
We all have different definitions of "a few extra bucks" with mine undoubtedly being closer to the literal few bucks.

The advantage of a drop in is: you buy it, you drop it in, you're done. Nothing needs to be done to your rifle, nothing needs to be removed (sling mount might need removing depending on handguard chosen), no tools necessary. Pull down on your delta ring (ribbed collar thing around your barrel where it meets the receiver), pop out the two pieces of your handguard. Reverse the step with your two drop-in pieces and you're done. The handguard I have is a Magpul MOE SL and was maybe $30.

The advantage of free floating is: theoretical improvement of accuracy which you will likely not notice (and imo such improvement is usually negated by a new front sight now mounted on the handguard instead of on the barrel as before), aesthetic reasons depending on taste.
Chances are if you're free floating, you'll probably replace the front sight gas block with a low profile one if you get a handguard that extends past it. Since you're a quad-rail type, you'll then need a new front sight to put on the rail if you plan on having iron sights.
I started typing out the steps involved, but
. They kept the old front sight gas block while I think the biggest reason to free float is out of necessity if you eliminate that front sight gas block and its handguard retaining ring. I think free floating and keeping the A2 FSB looks dumb, but that's just me. Vid doesn't mention having to reindex the flash hider, as there is one correct orientation for it to sit.
Don't forget to include the cost of the tools you'll need to go free float. New crush washer for flash hider possibly, barrel nut wrench, vise grip block helps you not mess up your entire rifle, punches, and the cost of the new handguard and low profile gas block as well.

Last edited by McE; 07-24-2015 at 11:05 PM.
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Old 07-25-2015, 02:20 AM
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My MP15 is still a KISS model.
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Old 07-25-2015, 07:56 AM
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My MP15 is still a KISS model.
1+

I can't understand adding a bunch of useless accessories to a 6.5lb rifle that turn it into a 10+ lb. rifle, although my match gun weighs close to 14 lbs.
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Old 07-25-2015, 08:11 AM
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1+

I can't understand adding a bunch of useless accessories to a 6.5lb rifle that turn it into a 10+ lb. rifle, although my match gun weighs close to 14 lbs.
I would agree with this.

Currently I have 2 AR's, both home built. First is my 20 inch Shilen barreled precision rifle in 223 Wylde. With the Nikon M223 3-12x42 scope it's over 11 lbs but will shoot sub 1/2 MOA with two different handloads I've worked up for it.

Second is my 16 inch 300 Blackout, a back to basics flat top with simple flip up sights as the only sighting system. With that sighting setup my accuracy is more in the range of 3 MOA but it only tips the scales at 6 lbs. 5 ounces. BTW, I have mounted a scope on it to do load testing and it will shoot to 3/4 MOA but I built it to be an iron sighted rifle and I intend to keep it that way.
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Old 07-25-2015, 11:46 AM
matchbook454 matchbook454 is offline
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Thanks for all of the input guys. Everyone has their own opinions and ideas and that is what I think is great about this rifle. There are so many options. I like the looks and general concept of the op's rifle. I would probably do mine fairly similar but not all at once, just one step at a time. I am thinking I will add optics first. Then maybe remove the a frame sight and add a lp gas block and a utg hand guard and flip up front sight. Following that possibly a fore grip, different stock and possibly different grip. This is just what I am thinking about doing right now. I will most likely go with a drop in hand guard as well as this will not be a long range rifle and it does seem like free float will be a pita. Thanks again for your input guys.
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Old 07-25-2015, 12:58 PM
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Well the thing about the free float is, it's simple if you're going to be removing your flash hider and front sight gas block anyway (and you do have to remove the flash hider to change the FSGB to a low pro), and if you already have a barrel nut wrench.

It's kind of like a car engine. There are small jobs you 'might as well do' while you have it all apart. Saves you time and maybe money if you do it all at once.
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Old 07-25-2015, 03:01 PM
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I guess we've got different budgets, because a $500 optic on a $1,700 total package does not fit in my definition of "budget build." I've got a $50 Tru Glo on my DPMS.
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Old 07-25-2015, 03:02 PM
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Get a Grip Pod vertical foregrip. Has a built in bipod.

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Thanks for all of the input guys. Everyone has their own opinions and ideas and that is what I think is great about this rifle. There are so many options. I like the looks and general concept of the op's rifle. I would probably do mine fairly similar but not all at once, just one step at a time. I am thinking I will add optics first. Then maybe remove the a frame sight and add a lp gas block and a utg hand guard and flip up front sight. Following that possibly a fore grip, different stock and possibly different grip. This is just what I am thinking about doing right now. I will most likely go with a drop in hand guard as well as this will not be a long range rifle and it does seem like free float will be a pita. Thanks again for your input guys.
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Old 07-25-2015, 11:40 PM
therapture therapture is offline
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I guess we've got different budgets, because a $500 optic on a $1,700 total package does not fit in my definition of "budget build." I've got a $50 Tru Glo on my DPMS.
What I guess I mean is - I could have spent 1700 bucks on just a rifle that still had open sights and what not...I bought a budget rifle and modded it to fit me, instead of someone else's idea of what should fit me.
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Old 07-26-2015, 01:18 AM
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This isn't a "build"... this is swapping parts on a modular rifle that are meant to be easy to swap.

I would not cut my FSB down and then add a drop in, carbine length hand guard and put a pair of back up sights on it... you just shortened the sight radius. With your eyesight, it sounds like you have no plans to use iron sights ever, so why waste money on them?

I also wouldn't have put the muzzle brake on. First of all, I don't see the need with 5.56. Second, you already mentioned the noise. Waste of money that just makes noise and isn't really needed to tame harsh recoil.


Not trying to be offensive, but you said you are cost conscious and want "effective" mods. Good optic and good trigger... the rest is take it or leave it for me.
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Old 07-26-2015, 08:06 PM
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This isn't a "build"... this is swapping parts on a modular rifle that are meant to be easy to swap.

I would not cut my FSB down and then add a drop in, carbine length hand guard and put a pair of back up sights on it... you just shortened the sight radius. With your eyesight, it sounds like you have no plans to use iron sights ever, so why waste money on them?

I also wouldn't have put the muzzle brake on. First of all, I don't see the need with 5.56. Second, you already mentioned the noise. Waste of money that just makes noise and isn't really needed to tame harsh recoil.


Not trying to be offensive, but you said you are cost conscious and want "effective" mods. Good optic and good trigger... the rest is take it or leave it for me.

Well excuse me, mr. master of all that is ar15. Perhaps I should have consulted with you before I did the "build". I should have said "modifications".

Why so rude? The handguard was purely a COMFORT thing. Same for the chopped down sight. The grip, well, again, comfort. And backup sights well...why not? They get occasional use because I like to keep some aiming skills on irons in case I use another rifle that does not have an optic...? My eyesight is not horrible, have no issues using open sights on larger, closer targets.

Last edited by therapture; 07-26-2015 at 08:10 PM.
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Old 07-26-2015, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by therapture View Post
What I guess I mean is - I could have spent 1700 bucks on just a rifle that still had open sights and what not...I bought a budget rifle and modded it to fit me, instead of someone else's idea of what should fit me.
What AR platform rifle is that? I'll grant you that my early Colt AR-15 A2 Sporter Carbine with the original Colt 4x scope is worth about twice that, but if there's a modern production $1,700 base rifle that people actually buy, they are few, far between, and not well publicized. My idea of a budget build is my DPMS Oracle 5.56 with a drop in quad rail, a cheap Tru Glo red dot, and a Grip Pod that my LGS was selling for $50. Even more of a budget build since I won the rifle in the DU calendar raffle. Go about $200 in it, counting the $50 for the calendar and a couple new magazines. My go to bang around truck gun/home defense gun . . .
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  #27  
Old 07-26-2015, 09:41 PM
cyphertext cyphertext is offline
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Originally Posted by therapture View Post
Well excuse me, mr. master of all that is ar15. Perhaps I should have consulted with you before I did the "build". I should have said "modifications".

Why so rude? The handguard was purely a COMFORT thing. Same for the chopped down sight. The grip, well, again, comfort. And backup sights well...why not? They get occasional use because I like to keep some aiming skills on irons in case I use another rifle that does not have an optic...? My eyesight is not horrible, have no issues using open sights on larger, closer targets.
Don't get your panties in a twist just because you used the wrong terms... I wasn't trying to be rude, but there is a huge difference in a build, and changing the stock and hand guard.

You said you made "Effective" mods, with cost in mind... I simply disagree. If you take away the trigger and the EoTech, you have over $1000 in a M&P 15 Sport! You could have purchased the Magpul MOE and had a better rifle out of the box, with the Magpul gear on it. For the $1700 total you have in your rifle, you could have had the VTAC II!
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  #28  
Old 07-26-2015, 10:18 PM
therapture therapture is offline
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Originally Posted by cyphertext View Post
Don't get your panties in a twist just because you used the wrong terms... I wasn't trying to be rude, but there is a huge difference in a build, and changing the stock and hand guard.

You said you made "Effective" mods, with cost in mind... I simply disagree. If you take away the trigger and the EoTech, you have over $1000 in a M&P 15 Sport! You could have purchased the Magpul MOE and had a better rifle out of the box, with the Magpul gear on it. For the $1700 total you have in your rifle, you could have had the VTAC II!
I agree with you somewhat. But 1700 for the vtac still wouldn't have the eotech sight and geissele trigger. The difference is I learned how to disassemble and work on my rifle and I do not regret the cost at all. My next rifle I am working on now (for my son), I am building from parts.

But you were rude, and so perhaps was I. I apologize for that, but dang, I stated I was an AR newb.
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  #29  
Old 07-26-2015, 10:45 PM
cyphertext cyphertext is offline
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Originally Posted by therapture View Post
I agree with you somewhat. But 1700 for the vtac still wouldn't have the eotech sight and geissele trigger. The difference is I learned how to disassemble and work on my rifle and I do not regret the cost at all. My next rifle I am working on now (for my son), I am building from parts.

But you were rude, and so perhaps was I. I apologize for that, but dang, I stated I was an AR newb.
Sorry, I wasn't trying to be rude... probably came across in text different than it sounded in my head. So for that, I apologize as well.

That VTAC II would get you a Geissele Super V trigger, but you would still be missing the EoTech... and that is a good add on in my mind.

I give you props for shaving down the FSB... many are afraid to tackle that. And as far as changing out the stock and grip, comfort is a valid reason... the MOE stock lends itself to a little better cheek weld over the standard stock. My son's .22lr AR has a Magpul stock on it for this reason. Besides, it is your rifle and if you are happy, that is what matters! I'm one of the few strange birds on this board that have a basically stock Sport... I added a red dot and changed the rear sight from Magpul to Matech, and added a M1 style GI sling. Basic, budget no frills rifle.

I'm also building one for my son, although I bought the upper complete as it was already configured with what I wanted at the same price as building it. The lower is a complete build, down to a mil-spec trigger. He can learn to shoot a standard trigger just like I did.
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  #30  
Old 07-27-2015, 02:33 AM
Shootingfun Shootingfun is offline
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Originally Posted by matchbook454 View Post
Just a question as I just bought my first AR - a MP15 Sport. Are these considered carbines? Looking at dressing it up with a quad rail and see some listed for carbines,mid length, etc.? Like I said, I'm a newbie!
I put on the UTG Pro Quad rail on my sporter and like it, got some Ergo rail cover and feels great, the UTG also comes with rail covers.
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  #31  
Old 07-27-2015, 02:37 AM
Shootingfun Shootingfun is offline
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Originally Posted by therapture View Post
Well, I have to say, for my first AR, I am LOVING this platform. It's like having a laser that I can point and shoot with ease! A long time shooter of various guns though so it was easy to pick up an AR. I shot a few hundred rounds first and have made simple mods over the last few months, as I learned what I wanted to do with it. I am a very value conscious person, I like quality AND cheap, sometimes hard to do. So anyways, here it is. I think I did a good job making simple EFFECTIVE mods.


-base model with no forward assist/dust cover, bought at a local gun show 6 mos ago with a Magpul rear MBUS and a cheap ncstar RDS and quad rail. $700.00
-cut down the stock front sight post -free
-EOtech EXPS2-0 (this thing is phenomenal) $539.00
-Spikes ST-T2 buffer $40.00
-Magpul MBUS Gen 2 flip up front sight $39.00
-Magpul MOE stock $38.00
-Magpul MOE grip $25.00
-Magpul Gen2 Pmags - 4 of them for $55
-Geissele SSA 2-stage trigger (like falling in love!) $225.00
-Amazon muzzle brake - loud, but damn it works! $20.00
-UTG drop in slim aluminum handguard (so thin and comfortable!) $65.00
-Vtac padded sling $40.00

Total: $1781.00

As you can see, I spent the cash on parts that REALLY make a difference in comfort and ease of use. The sight is a thing of beauty, I rarely shoot past 100 yards. I removed the stock A2 sight because I wanted 100% clear FOV via the EOtech holo sight. I also liked the ultra secure stock gas block so I just wanted that post out of the way (plus it's a free mod). I want fast acquisition, and with my mild astigmatism, the sight is great with scrip glasses.

The trigger, well, the SSA is wonderful...so clean and crisp! SO easy to shoot and no pull from a stiff or gritty trigger - my stocker was very gritty initially but loosened up a little after cleaning and lube, but I think was STIFF. When shooting at a moving target (hogs, various vermin), I can feel the first stage engage and that makes it easy to engage, aim, and fire as soon as I have a nice sight pic without jerking the gun around from trigger pull.

I have ran @1500 rounds through it so far and it only had a single failure to feed one time when the gun was new (and VERY dry). It has performed WONDERFUL! I zero for 50 meters, where I can consistently hit 2" groups off of a simple tree brace with cheap 5.56 brass Federal XM193. I can do 1.5" with any kind of a bench, I have never tried a sandbag, bipod, or anything special. (that probably sucks but it'll get better with practice). But considering I shoot 90% short distances at 100yds or less, I don't need a range gun since I only use the range for a little fun and dialing in sights. This is a south Texas "brushland/pasture gun" for fast accurate shooting with lots of off hand aiming.

Opinions? Sorry about the ****** pic, apparently black guns are hard to take good pics of!



Looks nice but what you paid for all of that you could have gotten a Vtac II or a really nice BCM Reese rifle system. I also cannot see paying that much for a optic that is almost the price of the rifle, Vortex optics would been just as good and way much cheaper.
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  #32  
Old 07-27-2015, 07:35 PM
therapture therapture is offline
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Originally Posted by Shootingfun View Post
Looks nice but what you paid for all of that you could have gotten a Vtac II or a really nice BCM Reese rifle system. I also cannot see paying that much for a optic that is almost the price of the rifle, Vortex optics would been just as good and way much cheaper.
I will politely disagree that Vortex optics are as good as EOtech - it really is very subjective to the individual requirements.

Again, for that price of a VTac II - I would still have to pay more to get the sight - since it does not come with the sight I wanted. So the cost of the sight is irrelevant to the base platform except as a metric.

Take away the sight and trigger and I still have a somewhat "budget" rifle (but a very good one at that).
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  #33  
Old 07-27-2015, 09:05 PM
Arik Arik is offline
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Originally Posted by Shootingfun View Post
Looks nice but what you paid for all of that you could have gotten a Vtac II or a really nice BCM Reese rifle system. I also cannot see paying that much for a optic that is almost the price of the rifle, Vortex optics would been just as good and way much cheaper.
Agree about the rifle but disagree about the scope. Price of rifle should not dictate price of scope.
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Old 07-27-2015, 10:38 PM
therapture therapture is offline
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Originally Posted by Arik View Post
Agree about the rifle but disagree about the scope. Price of rifle should not dictate price of scope.
That's what I am talking about

And some people miss the point - I learned a ton about these guns by messing around with it. They are very easy to take apart and put back together. With 20 years in the car repair industry as well as rebuilding my own motocross bikes for 25 years...this isn't rocket science.
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Old 07-27-2015, 11:01 PM
cyphertext cyphertext is offline
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Originally Posted by therapture View Post
That's what I am talking about

And some people miss the point - I learned a ton about these guns by messing around with it. They are very easy to take apart and put back together. With 20 years in the car repair industry as well as rebuilding my own motocross bikes for 25 years...this isn't rocket science.
I think that you being $150 deeper into the rifle than what a M&P Sport can be purchased for today is also skewing the numbers...

And nothing about that rifle indicates that it is not worthy of an Eotech. And I also disagree that the Vortex optics are on the same level as EoTech.
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Old 07-28-2015, 07:41 AM
wylie won wylie won is offline
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I think cyphertext is right about the $150...

I REALLY like Vortex optics. I have a Spitfire, and it works great. However, it's not an Eotech. I think it's better to buy one great quality optic than several inexpensive optics that might or might not be reliable. I heard someone on this forum say, "Buy once, cry once." I wish I would've taken that advice.

Last edited by wylie won; 07-28-2015 at 07:43 AM.
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