OK, I've been on record saying, "Trying to save money on optics is a waste of time." However, that is about magnified optics. 1x Red Dots seem to be different, or are they?

I bought a Vortex SPARC. The parallax was so bad on that optic that I sent it back to the manufacturer for repair. They replaced it with a new one and it had the same problem. I even spoke with their engineer about it and he told me that it was just something you have to deal with on small optics like that.

Well, Chattanoogaphil posted a video of his Primary Arms Microdot which showed perfectly acceptable parallax; meaning very little parallax error. That got me thinking.

Still, there was the issue of terrible battery life. An Aimpoint will last 50K hours or more. This means you can leave it on 24/7 and it will last about 4 years. None of the inexpensive red dots had that longevity.

What about durability? The Aimpoint is amazingly tough. I've seen them put through stuff nothing should ever be expected to endure. Not only did they keep working, but they held zero.

Well, Primary Arms has put out a Micro Dot model MD-ADS. It is only a fraction of the cost of an Aimpoint, but claims 50K hour battery life. Further, there are some torture tests out there that seem to indicate the site is plenty durable.

I've been talking about getting one for some time and I've finally pulled the trigger. The sight has been ordered and will be here some time this week. When it arrives, I will put it through the wringer. Rest assured, I will give you my honest opinion; good, bad or indifferent.

If it lives up to the hype, it may just be the first low dollar optic I will support.

https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_...s_p/md-ads.htm

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Freedom isn't free.

Battery life is my only complaint about my PA 2.5x red dots.

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Bob | KM4DEO
Sport | Glock 22

Looking forward to your feedback on this optic.

Many of the cheap red dots get 3000 hours or so... For a $100 or less, I don't think that is anything to complain about.

With a 50k battery life I don't understand the auto shutoff. Seems like needless complexity. Does it come back on at previous setting? Does it come back on by simply picking up the rifle or does it require a nudge or?

To change batteries, I understand the optic has to be taken off the rifle and the mount has to be separated from the optic to get to the battery. Blue Loctite chore with miniature screws?

Can the push button adjustment thingies on top be manipulated wearing gloves?

EOTech push buttons and auto shutoff in an Aimpoint body. Should have been called an EOPoint.

Other than battery life, not sure what the $169 Holosun does that a Bushnell TRS-25 doesn't for $69. I would not trust either as a duty optic. I see value in low end dime store optics as well as high end, but never been a fan of mid-priced red dots. Look forward to your review, and perhaps changing my mind.

Last year I bought the PA 30mm GenII Red Dot, I believe it's been discontinued. I keep a spare cr2032 battery in my MFT-G27 grip (small storage area) just in case. I realize this doesn't solve the issue of short battery life but it is a backup. I also bought a Kill Flash but wasn't long taking it off. The Red Dot itself was under $100. I probably don't shoot as much as you guys but I want dependability.

There's a lot of questions in your original post, but here goes...

1.) A budget red dot can absolutely be a good red dot. I have a Sightmark that is excellent, for under $100.00. My buddy used his old TruGlo red dot in 3-gun competitions and faired pretty well. That dot had been used on other carbines previously and was a shockingly good (yet very cheap) optic.

2.) Batteries are not only cheap, but can be stored in certain pistol grips and stocks. If they're easy to change, why get overly hung up on battery life? 50,000hrs is definitely cool as hell, but there's other viable options.

3.) I also looked at the Primary Arms about a month ago as an alternative to the Aimpoint H- and T-1. From experience with my Eotech, I'm not a fan of the push buttons whatsoever. The price tag is tempting, but I'm going to hold out for a good deal on an Aimpoint.

I don't think this model has an auto shutoff. I'll know for sure when it comes in. If it does have one, that'll be a deal killer.

It does come back on at the previous setting. Don't think it's motion sensitive.

Your understanding is faulty. This particular model was designed to alleviate that issue. The battery is accessible from the side.

I will test the other stuff when it shows up.

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Freedom isn't free.

This is a good question.

To be effective, a defensive gun needs to be add simple as possible. The ability to leave the red dot on 24/7 is highly desirable. This easy you won't have to fumble with controls when you need to use the gun right now. Further, the optic failing in the middle of use could be devastating.

Cost of batteries is insignificant.

As I mentioned before, if this has an auto shutoff, the 50k battery life has little value.

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Freedom isn't free.

I'm looking forward to you getting it... run it through the paces and let us know... Could this be a cheap Aimpoint killer? (I doubt it )

UltraDots are hard to beat for the money. They aren't cheap unless compared to Aimpoints, etc. Thousands of bullseye pistol shooters who have them mounted on the slides of their 1911's can't be wrong.

One things for sure. You know we are all waiting to hear what you think.

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~ From the Land of Lobstah ~

Oh I see now. I thought it was the Holosun that Primary Arms was selling. I guess this must be a different model that has the Primary Arms label on it and 50k battery life. That's a better design than what Holosun originally dreamed up with the battery underneath and auto shutoff.

The guys looking for a cheap range toy will likely still buy the Bushnell. The guys who want a proven battle worthy optic will buy Aimpoint. This one sounds like it's a good fit for those who are confused.

I'm thinking it might be a good fit on the rifle I am putting together for my son... possibly a little more robust than the Bushnell and will still be working when he forgets to turn it off between range trips!

No, I don't think so. The Aimpoint is still king in the world of red dots. It will be very hard to unseat them.


I have a cheap Barska, my first red dot:


It is worth every penny of the $30 I paid for it. Not robust, short battery life, difficult to operate, more "features" than value. Worse, it didn't hold zero very well and the adjustments failed. Meh, it was a $30 experiment.

Then I got a Millett:


It was a little better, but cost $50 from a local gun store. Auto shut off has saved the battery countless times. Even so, the battery life is not bad, but certainly not that long. Very small tube. This is good for two eye shooting, but not so good for acquisition. Meh, not a bad little optic.

One of the guys at the Trap club bought a Burris Speed Bead III to mount on his shotgun:


It scratched the stock as he tried to mount it. This angered him and he sold it to me at a very discounted price. I have it mounted on a Ruger Mark III Hunter and like it very much. I haven't run the battery down on it yet.

I already told you about the SPARC.

I have an EOTech 556.A65 that is a pure joy to use. I've owned it about a year. The batteries it came with have expired, but the set that's in there now has been running for a while. Still, the auto shutdown means I'd have to turn it on if I had to use the gun for home defense. This is not desirable.

Now that I'm typing this, I'm surprised at the number of red dots I've owned. This makes me even more excited to get this new one. If it stays on, holds zero, the switches are easy to operate (yes, I'm concerned about this point) and delivers on the lack of parallax issues beyond 33 yards (SPARC did not), then it will be a winner.

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Freedom isn't free.

I've had that model on my 300BLK SBR for a couple weeks now and couldn't be happier. Switching from subsonic to supersonic ammo the adjustments have been readily repeatable. The dot is crisp and it hasn't had a problem getting banged around a little bit.

I'll get through a couple 3 Gun matches before I truly settle on it, but so far, so very good.

NO nudge required. I've picked mine up and laid it down several times a day over the last few weeks and not had a problem. **Edit: It doesn't have auto off, I thought you were referring to it being "bumped" off.

This is simply not true. The battery compartment is on the starboard side. It can be opened with a coin or fingers.

Easily manipulated with Mechanix wear style gloves.

It's no different than magnified optics. You get what you pay for.

I've always thought so. However, I'm being told that this particular unit is pushing that envelope. At $170 it certainly isn't cheap, but compared to an Aimpoint Micro T-1, which is what it mimics ($660 on the Primary Arms site), it is very affordable.

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Freedom isn't free.

Right. It's a newer version of the Holosun with a PA label on it.

Here's PA talking about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBuqs...e_gdata_player

If it's a defensive weapon, I have cautioned against cheaper optics, however, that's not to say that they lower end stuff is not improving. I have heard a lot more cussing about EOTech reliability than I have about Aimpoint, even though I have personally run the same 552 for over 10 years with no issues. A friend has a Bariska scope of some form or another on his duty AR, and it has worked reliably over the course of time. I've had to send EOTechs back to the shop cause they wouldn't work or wouldn't hold zero. I have an inexpensive Leupold Mark AR that seems to be decent glass. If you're going to run with a low dollar optic, make sure you've got a good set of backup sights that you can co-witness when the dot disappears or the zero seems to have slipped.

Im interested in your review. Is it inly 1x?

I think so.

With an AR, I pay for a battle proven optic or pay for a range toy proven optic. What's in the middle seems kinda fuzzy to me. But maybe this new PA ADS has some middle ground value. The lens coatings appear a bit clearer than some in the video I've seen. Since its NV compatible that makes sense, as the Aimpoint T1 is a bit clearer than the H1.

There's a lot of new Holosun versions. Battery compartments on the side and bottom, solar powered, circle dot reticles... and they are now being made compatible with Aimpoint mounts. Sounds like Holosun is the new name for Chinese labor camp manufacture of red dots.

Well, it may not get here this week. I just checked the tracking. According to the site, it was supposed to be delivered today. However, it says the package just arrived in North Houston. That's about 20 miles in three days. At that rate I'll be lucky to see it by the end of the year.

As far as this particular optic goes, and what I'll use it for, it's definitely a gamble. I've never had an optic that was less than $100 that I thought was worth having. Even the Millett I pictured above sits in a box. I agree that it's worth it to buy a quality optic.

Time will tell, but we'll all have to wait for the USPS to get their act together before I can say anything about this particular sight.

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Freedom isn't free.

I don't know what's up with Primary Arms shipping. It seems your problem is a regular thing. I've bought two PA 2.5x red dot ACSS with CQB-M reticle scopes and both had the same issue. Once it gets out of Texas it seems to nove along pretty good, but until it leaves Beaumont their shipments move a less than Pony Express speed.

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Bob | KM4DEO
Sport | Glock 22

I HAVE TO ROLL WITH YOU ON THIS, cypher text. MY SHOOTING PAL AND I HAVE BEEN COMPETING WITH RUGER MK IIs EQUIPPED WITH THE SAME AIMPOINTS FOR 30 YEARS NOW, WITHOUT A SINGLE ISSUE. IN MY EFFORT TO BE FRUGAL, I EQUIPPED MY 8 3/8" MODEL 617 WITH AN ULTRADOT 30MM RED DOT. IT HAS BEEN TROUBLE FREE FOR A YEAR. IT COST ME AROUND $170. WITH FREE SHIPPING FROM OPTICS PLANET. I WAS HESITANT TO DEVIATE FROM AIMPOINT, A PROVEN WINNER, BUT I'M GLAD THAT I GAVE THE ULTRADOT A TRY. MAYBE THIS NEW VENTURE WILL WORK OUT FOR Rastoff ALSO. AIMPOINTS ARE PRICEY…..

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'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

The UltraDot has been the red dot of choice among bullseye shooters for many years. No reason at all to be hesitant to put one on a rimfire or centerfire. Thats a fine optic, Joe.

Just wanted to close this thread out with this tid bit; it arrived today.

I find it interesting in this day and age that the main shipper in the US, the USPS, is so terrible with their tracking. I ordered this on Saturday, Jan 31. Primary Arms sent me a confirmation email and a tracking number. On Sunday, Feb 1, I was able to check the tracking number on the USPS website and it said estimated delivery was Tues, Feb 3.

On the 5th, I requested email updates from USPS and they sent me this:

Notice at the top it still says expected delivery of 3 Feb even though the item is still in TX and this request for update didn't happen until the 5th. You would think that their system would be smart enough to conjure up a delivery date that is at least one day later considering the item is not delivered according to their own system.

Today I snipped this off their website:


Now that it has been delivered, they updated the estimated delivery date AND marked it as "on time". What a crock. Are they using this number as part of their statistics saying they are usually on time? If they are, it's a joke.


Anyway, I have the Micro Dot. It's installed on my AR and I will attempt to zero it tomorrow. This is all for this thread. I will start another thread once I have some trigger time with it.

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Freedom isn't free.